The National Football League

imalive wrote:

Chad Ochocinco - your Super Bowl XLVI MVP :shock:

heard gronkowski on the radio this morning say he has an app called ihuddle where he watches film on his ipad all the time. thought that was pretty cool.

imalive wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

imalive wrote:

Chad Ochocinco - your Super Bowl XLVI MVP :shock:

heard gronkowski on the radio this morning say he has an app called ihuddle where he watches film on his ipad all the time. thought that was pretty cool.

you're so used to quoting shit in your phillies thread....you do it when it doesn't even make sense

i have to use the bathroom.

so if the pats win and brady plays well..........is he the best ever? i think i am still leaning towards montana but a case can absolutley be made for both.



also, the more i think about this game, the more i like the pats to win convincingly. seems like the whole world is on the giants...

DewieCox wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

so if the pats win and brady plays well..........is he the best ever? i think i am still leaning towards montana but a case can absolutley be made for both.

No, titles aren't everything. As a QB, give me Peyton. If he had the coaching and d that Brady has had for most of his career who knows how many titles he'd have. Look what the Colts did w/o Manning, look what the Pats did w/o Brady.

I'm sure there are others too.

the whole "look what they did without peyton/brady thing" is an irrelevant point in my opinion. that pats team was coming off a 16-0 super bowl season with most of the roster intact and had a competant backup. the colts wouldn't have won more than 7 or 8 games with peyton this year. the fact that they are going to rebuild that whole team shows you their run had come to an end.

championships are not everything, agreed. but what is peyton's playoff record?

brady has had better defenses...but he's also had fewer offensive weapons than peyton manning for most of his career.

give me brady over manning any day of the week.

DewieCox wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

the whole "look what they did without peyton/brady thing" is an irrelevant point in my opinion. that pats team was coming off a 16-0 super bowl season with most of the roster intact and had a competant backup. the colts wouldn't have won more than 7 or 8 games with peyton this year. the fact that they are going to rebuild that whole team shows you their run had come to an end.

championships are not everything, agreed. but what is peyton's playoff record?

brady has had better defenses...but he's also had fewer offensive weapons than peyton manning for most of his career.

give me brady over manning any day of the week.

The Colts were bringing back virtually the same team as last year, just like the Pats were in 08. And the Colts had time to prepare unlike the Pats.

I think playoff record is basically the same as looking at championships. There were few years where the Colts actually had the best team and they got beat. Lack of a run game and run defense is gonna get you in the playoffs 9/10x. Of course he's not gonna rack up 2 or 3 playoff wins unless he goes to the SB.

I don't think Brady has had as many high profile weapons, but he's always had as many, especially in recent years. Manning never had anybody as good as Moss, Harrison included. When was the last time the Colts had a decent running game?

why did the coach and gm get fired? why are they dismantling the whole team? if this years colts team was on par with the '10 team, these guys wouldn't have lost their jobs and they would be talking about making some more runs with peyton and trading down from the first pick to get more pieces to reload, not rebuild. i really disagree with you. i did not think any aspect of that colts team was particularly good this year.

disagree completely with your thinking on playoff performance not making a qb great or not too. he's 9-10 in the playoffs including quite a few home losses where his team was favored.

brady only played with moss for 2 seasons. in fact, this year's patriots have been compare to many of the these colts teams of the last decade with the below average defense and not so strong running game...and they're 3 point favorites in the super bowl.

peyton's one of the best to ever play the game but if i'm building a team, i will take tom brady and a few other alltimer's over him. no doubt.

DewieCox wrote:

I don't think Brady has had as many high profile weapons, but he's always had as many, especially in recent years. Manning never had anybody as good as Moss, Harrison included. When was the last time the Colts had a decent running game?

Marvin Harrison is 1000X better then Moss could ever be in the Colt's offense. Moss is (really) good for only a few types of routes while Harrison could do it all.

Plus, you have to look at the efficiency of each player. When Moss gets angry at someone, he will just drag them alongside his car ... Marvin will shoot the motherfucker.

The Juggler wrote:

why did the coach and gm get fired? why are they dismantling the whole team? if this years colts team was on par with the '10 team, these guys wouldn't have lost their jobs and they would be talking about making some more runs with peyton and trading down from the first pick to get more pieces to reload, not rebuild. i really disagree with you. i did not think any aspect of that colts team was particularly good this year.

That argument actually works in favor of Dewie. The 2011 team was almost exactly the same as the 2010 team. One key ingredient missing exposed the weakness of all and everyone.

The Juggler wrote:

why did the coach and gm get fired? why are they dismantling the whole team? if this years colts team was on par with the '10 team, these guys wouldn't have lost their jobs and they would be talking about making some more runs with peyton and trading down from the first pick to get more pieces to reload, not rebuild. i really disagree with you. i did not think any aspect of that colts team was particularly good this year.

disagree completely with your thinking on playoff performance not making a qb great or not too. he's 9-10 in the playoffs including quite a few home losses where his team was favored.

brady only played with moss for 2 seasons. in fact, this year's patriots have been compare to many of the these colts teams of the last decade with the below average defense and not so strong running game...and they're 3 point favorites in the super bowl.

peyton's one of the best to ever play the game but if i'm building a team, i will take tom brady and a few other alltimer's over him. no doubt.

Manning is aging. If you think the Pats would do something different in a similar circumstance you're fooling yourself. I think with any team you'd expect heads to roll after 2-14 season.

I never said the Colts were good at all this year, but it's virtually the same team Manning got 10 wins with last year, while missing his go to TE.

Agree to disagree on playoff performance meaning that much more. I'd compare the Patriots since the undefeated season to the Colts teams and they haven't won shit. You wanna point out that they're favored, I'll point out how ridiculous most analysts are saying it is.



As a Colts fan you'll never convince me otherwise. Brady's a badass no doubt, I just think he's benefited much more from better teams surrounding him.

The Juggler wrote:

so if the pats win and brady plays well..........is he the best ever? i think i am still leaning towards montana but a case can absolutley be made for both.

One case against Brady in debates about him vs. Montana is the margin of victory in Super Bowls wins. Brady's three Super Bowl wins were each by 3 points. And while there's nothing wrong with that at all, in a true "Brady vs. Montana" argument, I think it's worth noting how The 49ers dominated very good Miami and Denver teams in the Super Bowl. And the first win over Cincinnati (26-21) wasn't as close as the final score suggests. As for the second one against Cincinnati in 1988, Montana's game winning drive in that one easily trumps Brady's FG drives against St. Louis and Carolina. I'm nit-picking here. But ya kind of have to in order to compare QBs from totally different eras.

jimed14 wrote:

Montana had Jerry Rice, John Taylor and Roger Craig.

When Brady won his superbowls he had Troy Brown, David Patten, Antowain Smith.

Food for thought.

Cases can be made for and against, the thing is, there is no right answer.

Yeah, but .....