Boycott Caterpillar!

135

Comments

  • MookiesLaw
    MookiesLaw Posts: 158
    Jason P wrote:
    I found this article to have rather ironic timing concerning this thread...

    http://news.yahoo.com/caterpillar-profit-surges-past-expectations-130852225.html

    Caterpillar profit jumps 58 percent

    Yes their Corporate Profits are higher than ever and yet they are still insisting that Canadian workers take a 50 percent pay cut, give up their current pension plan and swallow a significant reduction in benefits. On Jan. 1, Caterpillar locked out the plant's 465 workers, refusing to let them do their jobs until they make these sacrifices.....

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/19/caterpillar-inc-london-ontario-lockout_n_1214305.html
  • MookiesLaw
    MookiesLaw Posts: 158
    MayDay Malone wrote:
    Im having fun imagining some people on the Train having to eliminate ALL the Caterpillar products from their lives...

    http://www.cat.com/equipment

    Let's see- no more Hydraulic Excavators, Asphalt Pavers, or Track Loaders.


    Oh no, how will you get that highway built?


    Funniest day ever on the Train. :lol:

    If you can find the time to take a break between your fits of laughter, would you mind sharing with us how you feel about Caterpillar knowingly selling machines to the Israeli Government which are used to violate Palestinian human rights?
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    MookiesLaw wrote:
    MayDay Malone wrote:
    Im having fun imagining some people on the Train having to eliminate ALL the Caterpillar products from their lives...

    http://www.cat.com/equipment

    Let's see- no more Hydraulic Excavators, Asphalt Pavers, or Track Loaders.


    Oh no, how will you get that highway built?


    Funniest day ever on the Train. :lol:

    If you can find the time to take a break between your fits of laughter, would you mind sharing with us how you feel about Caterpillar knowingly selling machines to the Israeli Government which are used to violate Palestinian human rights?

    It's disgusting. If Israel would just leave palestine the hell alone, the money wouldn't be spent on bulldozers... Caterpillar wouldn't make them.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,671
    peacefrompaul wrote:

    It's disgusting. If Israel would just leave palestine the hell alone, the money wouldn't be spent on bulldozers... Caterpillar wouldn't make them.

    The kind of post that makes sense-- succinct, logical, and to the point. Well said, Paul.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited January 2012
    pandora wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Not! ...
    my father invented the technology for just this

    Caterpillar been very very good to us! :mrgreen:

    Their machines are used all over the world ... creating jobs, bringing roads, progress,
    homes etc etc ... Symbolize :? I would say they symbolize something much different
    they are also used to bring destruction and break international law. and in the case of Rachel Corrie, murder...
    So you are saying their technology has not been used for anything worthwhile?

    Incredible. Now you jump to the defence of a corporation that sells specially customized machines to Israel so they can illegally destroy homes in defiance of international law.
    The Nazis also produced some worthwhile things - the Volkswagen, the autobahn, Fanta, the jet plane, and many others. Will we now hear you defending them here on the train too?
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Ummm...because most bulldozers are not used in war, duh.

    Except we're not talking about most bulldozers, are we? We're talking about specially modified bulldozers designed specifically for use by Israel in the Occupied Territories to destroy houses belonging to Palestinians as part of their ethnic cleansing campaign. What part of that don't you understand?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    MookiesLaw wrote:
    MayDay Malone wrote:
    Im having fun imagining some people on the Train having to eliminate ALL the Caterpillar products from their lives...

    http://www.cat.com/equipment

    Let's see- no more Hydraulic Excavators, Asphalt Pavers, or Track Loaders.


    Oh no, how will you get that highway built?


    Funniest day ever on the Train. :lol:

    If you can find the time to take a break between your fits of laughter, would you mind sharing with us how you feel about Caterpillar knowingly selling machines to the Israeli Government which are used to violate Palestinian human rights?

    Palestinians don't have any rights as far as he's concerned. They're just 'nomadic terrorists'.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://mondoweiss.net/2011/10/new-repor ... crime.html

    New report says Israeli home demolitions in East Jerusalem violate international law, may constitute a war crime
    by Zach Resnick on October 31, 2011 5

    Earlier today The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions gave a press conference releasing its new report on Israeli housing demolition policy in East Jerusalem, and announcing that it will submit complaints to the U.N. A press release accompanying the report reads in part:

    The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICAHD) will submit complaints to the UN's Special Rapporteurs - claiming that Israel's policy in East Jerusalem violates international law and may constitute a war crime.

    ICAHD will submit three complaints tomorrow morning to the UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights of IDPs (internally displaced persons), the Special Rapporteur on Adequate Housing, and the Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in Occupied Palestinian Territories. ICAHD will demand to open an investigation into the legality of Israeli policy in East Jerusalem.

    The complaints are based on a report, to be launched Monday October 31st, that states that Israel is committing severe violations of international law in East Jerusalem. The report, written by Advocate Emily Schaeffer and edited by Advocate Michael Sfard, analyzes Israeli policy and practice in East Jerusalem under international human rights law and international humanitarian law. The report concludes that Israel is perpetrating serious violations of these laws by denying the right to adequate housing, development, and self-determination, as well as violating the prohibition on residency revocation.

    Furthermore, the report states that demolition of Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem is, in the majority of cases, a war crime of destruction of property. By destroying homes, limiting the possibility to build legally, and denying permanent residency status of Palestinians in East Jerusalem, Israel is forcing the migration process on the basis of ethnicity – which violates international law, and is possibly a war crime.

    The report also states that there is evidence that the actions and policies implemented by Israel in East Jerusalem are designed to preserve a demographic balance in the city of a Jewish majority – a motive that is forbidden by international law.

    The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions is setting a precedent by turning to the UN. This is the first time that an Israeli organization has requested the opening of an investigation into Israeli practices.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Byrnzie wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Not! ...
    my father invented the technology for just this

    Caterpillar been very very good to us! :mrgreen:

    Their machines are used all over the world ... creating jobs, bringing roads, progress,
    homes etc etc ... Symbolize :? I would say they symbolize something much different

    So you are saying their technology has not been used for anything worthwhile?

    Incredible. Now you jump to the defence of a corporation that sells specially customized machines to Israel so they can illegally destroy homes in defiance of international law.
    The Nazis also produced some worthwhile things - the Volkswagen, the autobahn, Fanta, the jet plane, and many others. Will we now hear you defending them here on the train too?
    Ya really got a thing going for the Nazi's ... can you try some other analogies perhaps

    very predictable

    So you are saying then that Caterpillar as never had any positive effect on this world

    I disagree with that
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Drowned Out wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Not! ...
    my father invented the technology for just this

    Caterpillar been very very good to us! :mrgreen:

    Their machines are used all over the world ... creating jobs, bringing roads, progress,
    homes etc etc ... Symbolize :? I would say they symbolize something much different
    You’re obviously defensive because of pride and personal gain. Your father invented the tech for military bulldozers? You view bulldozing homes of relatives of people suspected of terrorism as progress? Just because a bulldozer aids in construction in the US, doesn’t mean the company is infallible. I’m interested to hear how you apply your golden rule to the morality of CAT selling bulldozers to the IDF, to be used specifically for human rights violations?

    chadwick wrote:
    ive operated heavy equipment a bit. mostly drove semis with caterpillar engines. CAT pulls 80,000 pounds up mountain sides quite nicely. i throughly am impressed with the sheer beastly power these machines have.

    am i to throw away my CAT hat? let me read into this story a bit. so far it sounds terrible.

    It’s not really a single ‘story’, it’s a policy that has been going on for decades. Between denying Palestinians building permits so that they can call any new construction ‘illegal’, and using accusations of terrorism to justify razing homes, the Israelis have effectively annexed large amounts of land with zero compensation to the rightful owners. It’s like eminent domain in the US, but with no notice, or time to get your shit out. They’ve demolished thousands of homes since 2000 alone.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demo ... n_conflict
    The United Nations (UN) and human rights groups such as Amnesty International and the International Committee of the Red Cross….accuse the Israeli government and IDF of….:
    • Collective punishment, the punishment of an innocent Palestinian "for an offence he or she has not personally committed."[1][9]
    • Theft of Palestinian land by annexation to build the Israeli West Bank barrier or to create, expand or otherwise benefit Israeli settlements.[1][10]
    Actually he invented the hydraulic cylinder which revolutionized heavy equipment.
    At the time it did not have Military impact, as far as I know,
    but pretty much everything does eventually.

    What I am saying, in my opinion, is one can not say a company symbolizes
    one thing when they do many things and symbolize many things to different people.
    Caterpillar would symbolize something very different to me and perhaps others who see the
    positive for almost a century.

    My father worked on the Panama Canal as a young man ... a good thing
    and came back and invented a better solution for ground moving equipment.
    Another good thing. This lead to many good things. This is what I see, this my symbol
    of Caterpillar.
  • Bronx Bombers
    Bronx Bombers Posts: 2,208
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Incredible. Now you jump to the defence of a corporation that sells specially customized machines to Israel so they can illegally destroy homes in defiance of international law.

    Cat doesn't modify these bulldozers that's done after by the Israel Defence Forces.   
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    Bronx Bombers wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Incredible. Now you jump to the defence of a corporation that sells specially customized machines to Israel so they can illegally destroy homes in defiance of international law.

    Cat doesn't modify these bulldozers that's done after by the Israel Defence Forces.   


    See, that's what I was wondering about. I knew some people that worked at a company that would take regular hummers and other vehicles and add many different things, armor, bulletproof glass, etc.

    I'm kinda surprised that Israel is taking this on themselves instead of just finding a company that modifies equipment and buying direct from them. That is why I wondered if Cat was selling directly to Israel.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • even flow - question mark
    even flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    Funny that boycott thing. There are a couple of people here in Ontario who would sure like to keep their jobs at Caterpillar and not see it move to someplace else. Maybe we should boycott our friends who are scientists and all of a sudden watch their morals go away for a good pay cheque and a new bomb or chemical to kill another person with.

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    pandora wrote:
    So you are saying then that Caterpillar as never had any positive effect on this world

    And what difference does that make, when they are also selling machines used to destroy peoples lives?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    pandora wrote:
    What I am saying, in my opinion, is one can not say a company symbolizes
    one thing when they do many things and symbolize many things to different people.
    Caterpillar would symbolize something very different to me and perhaps others who see the
    positive for almost a century.

    It has nothing to do with what they symbolize. This is bullshit. Nobody in this thread has said anything about what Caterpillar symbolizes for the very reason that this is completely and utterly irrelevant.

    This thread topic is about what Caterpillar is doing. Did you even watch the video clip in the OP? If you did then why are you so confused?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Bronx Bombers wrote:
    Cat doesn't modify these bulldozers that's done after by the Israel Defence Forces.

    So do you think this gets C.A.T off the hook? The fact that the Israeli's add a bullet-proof cover to the cabin means that C.A.T have no responsibility for what their bulldozers are used for?

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0414-02.htm
    The Caterpillar boycott is backed by more than 20 campaign groups and charities. They claim that more than 50,000 Palestinians have been made homeless by the Israeli army's use of Caterpillar D9 armored bulldozers in the last four years.

    Water wells, schools and hundreds of thousands of trees have been razed by the Israeli army.

    The equipment has also been used to destroy ancient olive groves and roads in the West Bank and to construct the security wall cut into Palestinian territories which has been condemned by the International Court of Justice.

    Louise Richards, chief executive of War on Want, said: "Caterpillar provides the Israeli military with bulldozers, knowing full well that they will be used for house demolitions in Palestine.

    "We are asking people to boycott their range of clothing and other products until they stop the supply of equipment to Israel's military."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://www.hrw.org/news/2004/11/21/isra ... ozer-sales

    Israel: Caterpillar Should Suspend Bulldozer Sales

    Weaponized Bulldozers Used to Destroy Civilian Property and Infrastructure

    November 21, 2004


    Caterpillar Inc., the U.S.-based heavy-equipment company, should immediately suspend sales of its powerful D9 bulldozer to the Israeli army, Human Rights Watch said today. As Human Rights Watch documented in a recent report, the Israeli military uses the D9 as its primary weapon to raze Palestinian homes, destroy agriculture and shred roads in violation of the laws of war.

    “Caterpillar betrays its stated values when it sells bulldozers to Israel knowing that they are being used to illegally destroy Palestinian homes,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “Until Israel stops these practices, Caterpillar’s continued sales will make the company complicit in human rights abuses.”

    In a letter to Caterpillar’s chief executive officer and board of directors, Human Rights Watch on October 29 called on the company to cease all sales to the Israeli military of the D9, as well as parts and maintenance services, so long as the military continues to use the bulldozer to violate international human rights and humanitarian law.

    Caterpillar’s CEO James Owens responded to Human Rights Watch in a letter dated November 12 by saying the company did “not have the practical ability or legal right to determine how our products are used after they are sold.” This head-in-the-sand approach ignores international standards on corporate social responsibility and the requirements of Caterpillar’s own code of conduct.

    Since 2003, the United Nations has begun to develop standards for corporations in the form of the U.N. Norms on the Responsibilities of Transnational Corporations and Other Business Enterprises with Regard to Human Rights. This document states that companies should not “engage in or benefit from” violations of international human rights or humanitarian law and that companies “shall further seek to ensure that the goods and services they provide will not be used to abuse human rights.”

    Caterpillar’s own code of conduct requires it to consider the broad impact of its business. The company’s Code of Worldwide Business Conduct states that “Caterpillar accepts the responsibilities of global citizenship.” The company’s commitment to financial success, the code says, “must also take into account social, economic, political and environmental priorities.”

    Caterpillar makes the D9 to military specifications and sells the bulldozers to Israel as weapons under the U.S. Foreign Military Sales Program, a government-to-government program for selling U.S.-made defense equipment. Once exported to Israel, the bulldozers are armoured by the state-owned Israel Military Industries Ltd. Weighing roughly 64 tons, the armored D9 is more than 13 feet tall and 26 feet long with front and rear blades.

    A Human Rights Watch report released last month, “Razing Rafah,” documented the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) systematic use of the D9 bulldozer in illegal demolitions throughout the occupied Palestinian territories. The IDF has demolished over 2,500 Palestinian homes over the past four years in the Gaza Strip alone, most of them without the military necessity required by international humanitarian law.

    Nearly two-thirds of those homes were in Rafah, a town and refugee camp on Gaza’s southern border with Egypt. The Israeli military has used the Caterpillar bulldozer to raze the homes of more than 10 percent of the population in Rafah. The government plan to expand a “buffer zone” along the border would entail the destruction of hundreds more homes. In May, the IDF destroyed more than 50 percent of Rafah’s roads and damaged more than 40 miles of water and sewage pipes with a blade on the bulldozer’s back known as “the ripper.”

    “We found no legal justification for the senseless destruction of infrastructure essential to the health of the civilian population,” Whitson said.

    The IDF claims the destruction is militarily necessary to block smugglers’ tunnels from Egypt and to protect its forces, which regularly come under fire from Palestinian armed groups. Human Rights Watch found that the IDF has failed to use well-established methods of tunnel detection and destruction—like seismic sensors, electromagnetic induction and ground-penetrating radar—which would obviate the need for home demolitions. In terms of protecting its soldiers, the IDF completed construction of an 8-meter-high metal wall in 2003 but despite this extra protection, the rate of home demolitions in Rafah tripled in comparison with the previous two years.

    A 23-year-old American activist, Rachel Corrie, was run over and killed last year by an armored D9 when she was trying to block the bulldozer from destroying a Rafah home. At least three Palestinians have been killed by the bulldozer and falling debris in the last two years because they could not flee their homes in time.

    In April, a group of Caterpillar shareholders presented a resolution at the annual shareholder meeting that called on the company to investigate whether bulldozer sales to the Israeli military violated Caterpillar’s code of conduct. Jewish Voice for Peace, the largest grassroots Jewish peace group in the United States, announced today that it had resubmitted the resolution for the 2005 shareholders meeting.

    The following organizations are active in the campaign to stop Caterpillar sales of its D9 bulldozer to the Israeli army:

    The U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation
    http://www.endtheoccupation.org/

    SUSTAIN
    Stop U.S. Tax-funded Aid to Israel Now
    http://www.sustaincampaign.org

    Jewish Voice for Peace
    http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    place is a disaster over there. i haven't the answer but peace. them folks don't know the word peace.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    chadwick wrote:
    place is a disaster over there. i haven't the answer but peace. them folks don't know the word peace.

    They did, until the Zionists with their own particular brand of ethnic nationalism moved in.
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    Byrnzie wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    place is a disaster over there. i haven't the answer but peace. them folks don't know the word peace.

    They did, until the Zionists with their own particular brand of ethnic nationalism moved in.

    It's the promised land.

    Heh heh.

    I won't argue religion.

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