UN Helping US Budget

24

Comments

  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    soo ... your gripe is really another partisan attack on obama!? ... under the guise of an ineffective UN?

    Actually, no - I was drawn into that by another post. But, it's fine you responded with your opinion (not that you needed my permission).

    well ... what is your gripe then? ...
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    polaris_x wrote:
    if anything, he has restored somewhat the reputation of the US globally ...

    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Oh.. Good one. :lol::lol::lol:
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    soo ... your gripe is really another partisan attack on obama!? ... under the guise of an ineffective UN?

    Actually, no - I was drawn into that by another post. But, it's fine you responded with your opinion (not that you needed my permission).
    no, edson. this shot at the current administration was in your initial post....

    "BTW, side note on this: A bit of a commentary on diplomatic prowess of the current administration. France voted against our wishes and Britain abstained. We couldn't even get Britain to vote with us. This after we implored our allies to vote it down in accordance with past peace accords."

    nobody drew you into anything.

    the un is necessary whether people like it or not. and it has done some good.

    can you not just concede the point that france and gb went their own way on this? it is most likely because they feel the united states' poition is wrong in this situation and not the result of a lack of american strongarming them. remember "freedom fries"? france did not go into the wars, despite our best efforts to coax them into them. so they have not been the staunch "follow the us' lead" on everything" allies. there is some autonomy there.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    the un is necessary whether people like it or not.

    Why?

    And can it be just as necessary somewhere else?
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    the un is necessary whether people like it or not.

    Why?

    And can it be just as necessary somewhere else?
    chiefly to prevent wars and find peace. they can not prevent every war, mainly those started by a member nation of the security council, ahem, the united states...but it has prevented some and ended some genocides..

    it is founded on the following tenets:

    peace and security
    human rights
    humanitarian affairs
    international law
    development

    http://www.un.org/en/

    personally i would rather have it here in the us. it is already here, why move it now? that would not make any sense at all....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    if anything, he has restored somewhat the reputation of the US globally ...

    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Oh.. Good one. :lol::lol::lol:

    http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... bt/660.php
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    regarding the bolded part. what makes you think that france and britian have not come to their senses and realized that the united states' positions relating to palestine are morally wrong? it says nothing of obama's leadership. i believe that the vote against and the abstain-vote are evidence of changing opinions on the israel/palestine issue, which in my opinion is a great thing.

    You can promote statehood for Palestine, but the fact remains they are not one. So, you propose that any group that calls themselves a country should get representation in the UN? Well, that makes it even less meaningful than I already thought.

    I am the country of stupidistan. I want to enroll in the UN!


    That is if the UN actually meant anything.

    Regarding Obama - the sentiment I expressed is from both sides if the aisle.
    Your logic is so circular, it's so weird. On the one hand you are against accepting Palestine as a state, but then it's on the basis that "the fact remains they are not one." Yeah, they aren't one because people like you won't accept it.
    And I find it completely pathetic - yet suitable - of you completely disregarding the past century or so struggle of Palestinians for nationalism. They aren't some random group pretending to have some arbitrary claim to a piece of land. This is a movement that was legitimized long before your father was in the cradle, so why don't you show some goddamn respect, if not for Palestinians who struggle every day for this, for atleast the historical record and the facts?

    As for the rest of your points, I've no care for those who sit here and complain about us shoving money into the UN or whatever. the fact is that if you really want to fix our budget, you have to cut the defense budget, and end the useless wars overseas. you know who's against our operations overseas? the international community. if the UN had the power it should, to truly represent the beliefs of all nations independently, perhaps we wouldn't be in this shitty economic position, let alone our moral standing in this world which was diminished ages ago through the many, many wars we have conveniently found ourselves fallen into. the UN is what it is because of the U.S., not the other way around, so criticisms of the UN are often worth ignoring.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    the un is necessary whether people like it or not.

    Why?

    And can it be just as necessary somewhere else?

    Just curious- why move it? And where? The only neutral place to put it would be the middle of the ocean or Antarctica. Who would show up?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • BinauralJam
    BinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    i would move the U.N just for trasffic concerns alone, they shut this city down whenever some tyrant is visiting.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    BinauralJam wrote:
    i would move the U.N just for trasffic concerns alone, they shut this city down whenever some tyrant is visiting.

    the traffic sucks all the time there ...

    frig - you guys have to hire traffic cops because a) the timing of the signals would cause gridlock and b) it's a free for all with many drivers
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    fuck wrote:
    Your logic is so circular, it's so weird. On the one hand you are against accepting Palestine as a state, but then it's on the basis that "the fact remains they are not one." Yeah, they aren't one because people like you won't accept it.
    And I find it completely pathetic - yet suitable - of you completely disregarding the past century or so struggle of Palestinians for nationalism. They aren't some random group pretending to have some arbitrary claim to a piece of land. This is a movement that was legitimized long before your father was in the cradle, so why don't you show some goddamn respect, if not for Palestinians who struggle every day for this, for atleast the historical record and the facts?

    As for the rest of your points, I've no care for those who sit here and complain about us shoving money into the UN or whatever. the fact is that if you really want to fix our budget, you have to cut the defense budget, and end the useless wars overseas. you know who's against our operations overseas? the international community. if the UN had the power it should, to truly represent the beliefs of all nations independently, perhaps we wouldn't be in this shitty economic position, let alone our moral standing in this world which was diminished ages ago through the many, many wars we have conveniently found ourselves fallen into. the UN is what it is because of the U.S., not the other way around, so criticisms of the UN are often worth ignoring.

    I have not said a single word about whether Palestine should be a country or not. So, I don't know why that conclusion keeps getting drawn. But, as of this moment, they are not a recognized state. That is why I don't recognize it. Your logic is circular saying that I must recognize something that doesn't exist, but which would exist if I did. Is that your anti-god and/or pro-god argument, also?
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    brianlux wrote:
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    the un is necessary whether people like it or not.

    Why?

    And can it be just as necessary somewhere else?

    Just curious- why move it? And where? The only neutral place to put it would be the middle of the ocean or Antarctica. Who would show up?

    There is a tract of valuable land that is being used by a meaningless body. Not only could revenues be generated by putting it to good use, taxes and other public goods could be obtained.

    I'm tired of the US getting crapped on, and then everyone and their buddies trying to get appointments to live here free of any laws. How about it is placed in the Middle East? Or, France? I don't really care. It's a meaningless, powerless body that we shouldn't be wasting another cent on. By having it here, we are forgoing other goods for ourselves insted of hosting ungrateful folks. The funny thing is - it's housed here because we're one of the few countries that would allow such free speech about us on our own soil. How many countries would allow that?
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    chiefly to prevent wars and find peace. they can not prevent every war, mainly those started by a member nation of the security council, ahem, the united states...but it has prevented some and ended some genocides..

    it is founded on the following tenets:

    peace and security
    human rights
    humanitarian affairs
    international law
    development

    http://www.un.org/en/

    personally i would rather have it here in the us. it is already here, why move it now? that would not make any sense at all....

    First, I'd like you to name any of those things that have happened by the UN and UN alone that could not have been accomplished otherwise.

    As for your last statement - that's the classic way we got into this debt crisis - well, it's always been that ways, so why should we stop spending now? We'll just add to spending. The point is, I don't have to sink any more money in to it. Why can't it rotate countries? Why does it need a fixed PHYSICAL location? And if it does, why don't we find some land as an international community that some country is willing to give up (or is not being used) and create a Vatican like sub-country for the UN to exist? Otherwise, why can't it's meeting place rotate similar to the World Cup or Olympics? Why does it need to be in a fixed location?

    And again - if we are such crappy folks - why would folks even want to come here for the purpose of the UN? I think that's the underlying thing here. Folks like to sh*t on us, but they know it's the best country on Earth. So, they keep coming.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    And again - if we are such crappy folks - why would folks even want to come here for the purpose of the UN? I think that's the underlying thing here. Folks like to sh*t on us, but they know it's the best country on Earth. So, they keep coming.
    Oh, you're one of those. I'll not bother any more with you then.
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    fuck wrote:
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    And again - if we are such crappy folks - why would folks even want to come here for the purpose of the UN? I think that's the underlying thing here. Folks like to sh*t on us, but they know it's the best country on Earth. So, they keep coming.
    Oh, you're one of those. I'll not bother any more with you then.


    Ha, ha. I was obviously using hyperbole at the end. I don't think we're necessarily better than anyone else (though there's no place else I'd rather live). But, it does pose it's own question - why do all those diplomats enjoy living here so much? And would they be opposed to moving it to say, Chad (to pick a random country that shares the name with one of my sons and not meant to be offensive to anyone - this disclaimer for those that read potential offense into any word spoken)?
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    fuck wrote:
    Your logic is so circular, it's so weird. On the one hand you are against accepting Palestine as a state, but then it's on the basis that "the fact remains they are not one." Yeah, they aren't one because people like you won't accept it.
    And I find it completely pathetic - yet suitable - of you completely disregarding the past century or so struggle of Palestinians for nationalism. They aren't some random group pretending to have some arbitrary claim to a piece of land. This is a movement that was legitimized long before your father was in the cradle, so why don't you show some goddamn respect, if not for Palestinians who struggle every day for this, for atleast the historical record and the facts?

    As for the rest of your points, I've no care for those who sit here and complain about us shoving money into the UN or whatever. the fact is that if you really want to fix our budget, you have to cut the defense budget, and end the useless wars overseas. you know who's against our operations overseas? the international community. if the UN had the power it should, to truly represent the beliefs of all nations independently, perhaps we wouldn't be in this shitty economic position, let alone our moral standing in this world which was diminished ages ago through the many, many wars we have conveniently found ourselves fallen into. the UN is what it is because of the U.S., not the other way around, so criticisms of the UN are often worth ignoring.

    I have not said a single word about whether Palestine should be a country or not. So, I don't know why that conclusion keeps getting drawn. But, as of this moment, they are not a recognized state. That is why I don't recognize it. Your logic is circular saying that I must recognize something that doesn't exist, but which would exist if I did. Is that your anti-god and/or pro-god argument, also?
    that conclusion is drawn because you pretty much said as such in other threads.

    the reason it is not a state IS because you refuse to recognize it. if you don't recognize it, then it does not exist. i am sorry you are in the minority on this one. but the fact is that palestine is moving forward with it's desire to be a member of the un, and if they circumvent the americans and get recognition then good on them. god knows the americans are not doing anything to help them, rather we are doing anything and everything to roadblock them.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    There is a tract of valuable land that is being used by a meaningless body. Not only could revenues be generated by putting it to good use, taxes and other public goods could be obtained.

    meaningless body that however does some good and we are all better off for it ... according to you! ... :lol:

    great ... i would love those high diplomatic paying jobs and all their economic spinoff here in toronto ... their contributions to the economy are welcomed anywhere ...
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    There is a tract of valuable land that is being used by a meaningless body. Not only could revenues be generated by putting it to good use, taxes and other public goods could be obtained.

    I'm tired of the US getting crapped on, and then everyone and their buddies trying to get appointments to live here free of any laws. How about it is placed in the Middle East? Or, France? I don't really care. It's a meaningless, powerless body that we shouldn't be wasting another cent on. By having it here, we are forgoing other goods for ourselves insted of hosting ungrateful folks. The funny thing is - it's housed here because we're one of the few countries that would allow such free speech about us on our own soil. How many countries would allow that?
    referring to the bolded part, this is your opinion. and, why should we steal that land that has been dedicated for the purpose of housing the UN? you don't care for the UN, so what? the rest of the world does.

    so you are angry because people criticize your country while having it's representatives here?? diplomacy is tough. you have to be willing to hear things you don't want to hear. if america actually was the beacon of freedom and civility and justice world wide that it claims to be then there would be no criticism. if america would get on board with the rest of the world in the quest for peace and humanity, and a just peace for the israelis and palestinians there would be no criticism. if we maintain the same policies towards palestine we will always be criticized. unfortunately it seems that the only thing the american government understands well is the use of military force...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    fuck wrote:
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    And again - if we are such crappy folks - why would folks even want to come here for the purpose of the UN? I think that's the underlying thing here. Folks like to sh*t on us, but they know it's the best country on Earth. So, they keep coming.
    Oh, you're one of those. I'll not bother any more with you then.
    :lol:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    and with the way this law was written, it makes the us sound like little babies that are upset because they got ganged up on on the playground. "you all voted to allow palestine into UNESCO!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!! you get no more money from us!!! WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!" :cry:

    i can only imagine how the rest of the countries that voted for this view the united states today..
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."

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