Your logic is so circular, it's so weird. On the one hand you are against accepting Palestine as a state, but then it's on the basis that "the fact remains they are not one." Yeah, they aren't one because people like you won't accept it.
And I find it completely pathetic - yet suitable - of you completely disregarding the past century or so struggle of Palestinians for nationalism. They aren't some random group pretending to have some arbitrary claim to a piece of land. This is a movement that was legitimized long before your father was in the cradle, so why don't you show some goddamn respect, if not for Palestinians who struggle every day for this, for atleast the historical record and the facts?
As for the rest of your points, I've no care for those who sit here and complain about us shoving money into the UN or whatever. the fact is that if you really want to fix our budget, you have to cut the defense budget, and end the useless wars overseas. you know who's against our operations overseas? the international community. if the UN had the power it should, to truly represent the beliefs of all nations independently, perhaps we wouldn't be in this shitty economic position, let alone our moral standing in this world which was diminished ages ago through the many, many wars we have conveniently found ourselves fallen into. the UN is what it is because of the U.S., not the other way around, so criticisms of the UN are often worth ignoring.
I have not said a single word about whether Palestine should be a country or not. So, I don't know why that conclusion keeps getting drawn. But, as of this moment, they are not a recognized state. That is why I don't recognize it. Your logic is circular saying that I must recognize something that doesn't exist, but which would exist if I did. Is that your anti-god and/or pro-god argument, also?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
the un is necessary whether people like it or not.
Why?
And can it be just as necessary somewhere else?
Just curious- why move it? And where? The only neutral place to put it would be the middle of the ocean or Antarctica. Who would show up?
There is a tract of valuable land that is being used by a meaningless body. Not only could revenues be generated by putting it to good use, taxes and other public goods could be obtained.
I'm tired of the US getting crapped on, and then everyone and their buddies trying to get appointments to live here free of any laws. How about it is placed in the Middle East? Or, France? I don't really care. It's a meaningless, powerless body that we shouldn't be wasting another cent on. By having it here, we are forgoing other goods for ourselves insted of hosting ungrateful folks. The funny thing is - it's housed here because we're one of the few countries that would allow such free speech about us on our own soil. How many countries would allow that?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
chiefly to prevent wars and find peace. they can not prevent every war, mainly those started by a member nation of the security council, ahem, the united states...but it has prevented some and ended some genocides..
it is founded on the following tenets:
peace and security
human rights
humanitarian affairs
international law
development
personally i would rather have it here in the us. it is already here, why move it now? that would not make any sense at all....
First, I'd like you to name any of those things that have happened by the UN and UN alone that could not have been accomplished otherwise.
As for your last statement - that's the classic way we got into this debt crisis - well, it's always been that ways, so why should we stop spending now? We'll just add to spending. The point is, I don't have to sink any more money in to it. Why can't it rotate countries? Why does it need a fixed PHYSICAL location? And if it does, why don't we find some land as an international community that some country is willing to give up (or is not being used) and create a Vatican like sub-country for the UN to exist? Otherwise, why can't it's meeting place rotate similar to the World Cup or Olympics? Why does it need to be in a fixed location?
And again - if we are such crappy folks - why would folks even want to come here for the purpose of the UN? I think that's the underlying thing here. Folks like to sh*t on us, but they know it's the best country on Earth. So, they keep coming.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
And again - if we are such crappy folks - why would folks even want to come here for the purpose of the UN? I think that's the underlying thing here. Folks like to sh*t on us, but they know it's the best country on Earth. So, they keep coming.
Oh, you're one of those. I'll not bother any more with you then.
And again - if we are such crappy folks - why would folks even want to come here for the purpose of the UN? I think that's the underlying thing here. Folks like to sh*t on us, but they know it's the best country on Earth. So, they keep coming.
Oh, you're one of those. I'll not bother any more with you then.
Ha, ha. I was obviously using hyperbole at the end. I don't think we're necessarily better than anyone else (though there's no place else I'd rather live). But, it does pose it's own question - why do all those diplomats enjoy living here so much? And would they be opposed to moving it to say, Chad (to pick a random country that shares the name with one of my sons and not meant to be offensive to anyone - this disclaimer for those that read potential offense into any word spoken)?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Your logic is so circular, it's so weird. On the one hand you are against accepting Palestine as a state, but then it's on the basis that "the fact remains they are not one." Yeah, they aren't one because people like you won't accept it.
And I find it completely pathetic - yet suitable - of you completely disregarding the past century or so struggle of Palestinians for nationalism. They aren't some random group pretending to have some arbitrary claim to a piece of land. This is a movement that was legitimized long before your father was in the cradle, so why don't you show some goddamn respect, if not for Palestinians who struggle every day for this, for atleast the historical record and the facts?
As for the rest of your points, I've no care for those who sit here and complain about us shoving money into the UN or whatever. the fact is that if you really want to fix our budget, you have to cut the defense budget, and end the useless wars overseas. you know who's against our operations overseas? the international community. if the UN had the power it should, to truly represent the beliefs of all nations independently, perhaps we wouldn't be in this shitty economic position, let alone our moral standing in this world which was diminished ages ago through the many, many wars we have conveniently found ourselves fallen into. the UN is what it is because of the U.S., not the other way around, so criticisms of the UN are often worth ignoring.
I have not said a single word about whether Palestine should be a country or not. So, I don't know why that conclusion keeps getting drawn. But, as of this moment, they are not a recognized state. That is why I don't recognize it. Your logic is circular saying that I must recognize something that doesn't exist, but which would exist if I did. Is that your anti-god and/or pro-god argument, also?
that conclusion is drawn because you pretty much said as such in other threads.
the reason it is not a state IS because you refuse to recognize it. if you don't recognize it, then it does not exist. i am sorry you are in the minority on this one. but the fact is that palestine is moving forward with it's desire to be a member of the un, and if they circumvent the americans and get recognition then good on them. god knows the americans are not doing anything to help them, rather we are doing anything and everything to roadblock them.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
There is a tract of valuable land that is being used by a meaningless body. Not only could revenues be generated by putting it to good use, taxes and other public goods could be obtained.
meaningless body that however does some good and we are all better off for it ... according to you! ...
great ... i would love those high diplomatic paying jobs and all their economic spinoff here in toronto ... their contributions to the economy are welcomed anywhere ...
There is a tract of valuable land that is being used by a meaningless body. Not only could revenues be generated by putting it to good use, taxes and other public goods could be obtained.
I'm tired of the US getting crapped on, and then everyone and their buddies trying to get appointments to live here free of any laws. How about it is placed in the Middle East? Or, France? I don't really care. It's a meaningless, powerless body that we shouldn't be wasting another cent on. By having it here, we are forgoing other goods for ourselves insted of hosting ungrateful folks. The funny thing is - it's housed here because we're one of the few countries that would allow such free speech about us on our own soil. How many countries would allow that?
referring to the bolded part, this is your opinion. and, why should we steal that land that has been dedicated for the purpose of housing the UN? you don't care for the UN, so what? the rest of the world does.
so you are angry because people criticize your country while having it's representatives here?? diplomacy is tough. you have to be willing to hear things you don't want to hear. if america actually was the beacon of freedom and civility and justice world wide that it claims to be then there would be no criticism. if america would get on board with the rest of the world in the quest for peace and humanity, and a just peace for the israelis and palestinians there would be no criticism. if we maintain the same policies towards palestine we will always be criticized. unfortunately it seems that the only thing the american government understands well is the use of military force...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
And again - if we are such crappy folks - why would folks even want to come here for the purpose of the UN? I think that's the underlying thing here. Folks like to sh*t on us, but they know it's the best country on Earth. So, they keep coming.
Oh, you're one of those. I'll not bother any more with you then.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
and with the way this law was written, it makes the us sound like little babies that are upset because they got ganged up on on the playground. "you all voted to allow palestine into UNESCO!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!! you get no more money from us!!! WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!"
i can only imagine how the rest of the countries that voted for this view the united states today..
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
referring to the bolded part, this is your opinion. and, why should we steal that land that has been dedicated for the purpose of housing the UN? you don't care for the UN, so what? the rest of the world does.
so you are angry because people criticize your country while having it's representatives here?? diplomacy is tough. you have to be willing to hear things you don't want to hear. if america actually was the beacon of freedom and civility and justice world wide that it claims to be then there would be no criticism. if america would get on board with the rest of the world in the quest for peace and humanity, and a just peace for the israelis and palestinians there would be no criticism. if we maintain the same policies towards palestine we will always be criticized. unfortunately it seems that the only thing the american government understands well is the use of military force...
Yep. We are wrong, and "everyone else" is right. So funny. Then folks should stop immigrating here, and start immigrating to Palestine instead.
I am FOR a Palestine State. In Jordan or Iran, or Iraq, or anywhere else that has supported their cause. Why do they need to take land from an already tiny nation? Why not take it from their allies that have land to spare? Would they agree to fully disarm if granted Statehood in what is Israel?
I bet you really think Israel is unprovoked in most of what they are doing (this is not absolving them of any wrong doing. But, if you were constantly under attack as they are you would protect yourself beyond your borders, as well). Much as you think US's might does not make right, the Middle East's on going war against Israel does not make it right.
We should continue to stand up with our ally regardless of other's weakening resolve.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Yep. We are wrong, and "everyone else" is right. So funny. Then folks should stop immigrating here, and start immigrating to Palestine instead.
I am FOR a Palestine State. In Jordan or Iran, or Iraq, or anywhere else that has supported their cause. Why do they need to take land from an already tiny nation? Why not take it from their allies that have land to spare? Would they agree to fully disarm if granted Statehood in what is Israel?
I bet you really think Israel is unprovoked in most of what they are doing (this is not absolving them of any wrong doing. But, if you were constantly under attack as they are you would protect yourself beyond your borders, as well). Much as you think US's might does not make right, the Middle East's on going war against Israel does not make it right.
We should continue to stand up with our ally regardless of other's weakening resolve.
dude ... you need to read up on this issue ... your comments make no sense ... it sounds like you are regurgitating standard right wing talking points ...
Yep. We are wrong, and "everyone else" is right. So funny. Then folks should stop immigrating here, and start immigrating to Palestine instead.
I am FOR a Palestine State. In Jordan or Iran, or Iraq, or anywhere else that has supported their cause. Why do they need to take land from an already tiny nation? Why not take it from their allies that have land to spare? Would they agree to fully disarm if granted Statehood in what is Israel?
I bet you really think Israel is unprovoked in most of what they are doing (this is not absolving them of any wrong doing. But, if you were constantly under attack as they are you would protect yourself beyond your borders, as well). Much as you think US's might does not make right, the Middle East's on going war against Israel does not make it right.
We should continue to stand up with our ally regardless of other's weakening resolve.
dude ... you need to read up on this issue ... your comments make no sense ... it sounds like you are regurgitating standard right wing talking points ...
I am well acquainted with the issues. Nothing's that simple. Perhaps, you should broaden your reading material, as well (which is a cop out response for both of us).
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
UNESCO votes to let Palestine in invoking LAW (yes, it's a law) that prevents the US from funding any part of UN that puts Palestine in. So, there's $60 million we just saved. Cool. Now if we could just get them to move the UN out of Manhattan to another country, we'd be all set....
BTW, side note on this: A bit of a commentary on diplomatic prowess of the current administration. France voted against our wishes and Britain abstained. We couldn't even get Britain to vote with us. This after we implored our allies to vote it down in accordance with past peace accords.
Agree or disagree with the fact that Palestine should be allowed in. But, we just saved $60 million. Here's to hoping the useless UN votes them into everything else. There's another billion in spending just sitting waiting not to be spent on this worthless organization. Perhaps we could start to collect on all those unpaid parking tickets. Solve the NYC budget while we're at it.
...
How did we save $60 million... if we were never going to spend $60 million on letting Palestine in?
...
Also, doesn't France and England have their own free will to vote the way THEY want to vote? Or are we there to strong arm them into voting the way WE want them to vote?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I am well acquainted with the issues. Nothing's that simple. Perhaps, you should broaden your reading material, as well (which is a cop out response for both of us).
i've read from both sides ... there are israelis on this board who believe in a 2-state solution ... not only are you going against world opinion on this matter ... you are against a predominant israeli viewpoint ... only the hardliners (unfortunately, they have the power) are not interested in a 2-state solution ...
i can only imagine how the rest of the countries that voted for this view the united states today..
Probably the same way they viewed us yesterday.
The US should just back away from the whole deal. Our last representative before the UN vote should be Big John McCarthy so he can yell, "Let's get it on!" before declining to vote. Then we can just sit back with some popcorn and wait for the fireworks to start.
We weren't paying for them to get in, there is a law that prohibits the government from funding any portion of the UN that allows Palestine to become a full member. We were paying $60 million to a particular cultural agency within the UN that voted to grant Palestine full membership. Since that happened, we are no longer going to make that payment. That is where the $60 million was saved.
UNESCO votes to let Palestine in invoking LAW (yes, it's a law) that prevents the US from funding any part of UN that puts Palestine in. So, there's $60 million we just saved. Cool. Now if we could just get them to move the UN out of Manhattan to another country, we'd be all set....
BTW, side note on this: A bit of a commentary on diplomatic prowess of the current administration. France voted against our wishes and Britain abstained. We couldn't even get Britain to vote with us. This after we implored our allies to vote it down in accordance with past peace accords.
Agree or disagree with the fact that Palestine should be allowed in. But, we just saved $60 million. Here's to hoping the useless UN votes them into everything else. There's another billion in spending just sitting waiting not to be spent on this worthless organization. Perhaps we could start to collect on all those unpaid parking tickets. Solve the NYC budget while we're at it.
...
How did we save $60 million... if we were never going to spend $60 million on letting Palestine in?
...
Also, doesn't France and England have their own free will to vote the way THEY want to vote? Or are we there to strong arm them into voting the way WE want them to vote?
referring to the bolded part, this is your opinion. and, why should we steal that land that has been dedicated for the purpose of housing the UN? you don't care for the UN, so what? the rest of the world does.
so you are angry because people criticize your country while having it's representatives here?? diplomacy is tough. you have to be willing to hear things you don't want to hear. if america actually was the beacon of freedom and civility and justice world wide that it claims to be then there would be no criticism. if america would get on board with the rest of the world in the quest for peace and humanity, and a just peace for the israelis and palestinians there would be no criticism. if we maintain the same policies towards palestine we will always be criticized. unfortunately it seems that the only thing the american government understands well is the use of military force...
Yep. We are wrong, and "everyone else" is right. So funny. Then folks should stop immigrating here, and start immigrating to Palestine instead.
I am FOR a Palestine State. In Jordan or Iran, or Iraq, or anywhere else that has supported their cause. Why do they need to take land from an already tiny nation? Why not take it from their allies that have land to spare? Would they agree to fully disarm if granted Statehood in what is Israel?
I bet you really think Israel is unprovoked in most of what they are doing (this is not absolving them of any wrong doing. But, if you were constantly under attack as they are you would protect yourself beyond your borders, as well). Much as you think US's might does not make right, the Middle East's on going war against Israel does not make it right.
We should continue to stand up with our ally regardless of other's weakening resolve.
israel has the largest and most powerful military in the region. they can more than handle themselves. they do not need support from us. if you want to save money and resources, why would you not support the us ending it's $4 billion a year in military aid to israel every year?
do you know how israel was founded after WWII?
why would we move a potential palestinian state into iran or iraq?? the palestinian state has to be where it is proposed now. the land that israel is claiming is on palestinian land. the international community agrees on the pre-1967 borders and israel keeps building settlements on stolen land. sone places have apartheid conditions. we should not stand by such an ally as long as they keep doing what they are doing. we were against the aparthied in south africa, so why aren't we against it now in the israel/palestine conflict??
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
...
How did we save $60 million... if we were never going to spend $60 million on letting Palestine in?
...
Also, doesn't France and England have their own free will to vote the way THEY want to vote? Or are we there to strong arm them into voting the way WE want them to vote?
We have a $80 million/year "donation" (or whatever you want to call it) to UNESCO. $60 million payment was due next month. Congress passed a law in 1990 that says if Palestine is admitted to any UN functions US will withdraw its funding from that function.
The law was not directed at UNESCO specifically because the US had a long gap in participation in UNESCO until about 2002 or so (can't remember the exact year or amount of absence, but it was something like 19 years). But, it was clearly directed at any movement on Palestine without the US' approval.
We can argue the correctness of any of this. But, that is how we just saved $60 million (THIS YEAR - it will be $80 million per year each year this continues, so in reality we could be saving that drop in the bucket for a longer period of time).
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
this is happening as a result of the palestinian efforts to get recognition from the un. israel will not negotiate with them so no peace deal can be made....palestine goes to the un to ask for something us brokered peace talks have never been able to accomplish....then israel punishes palestine by building more settlements at a faster rate on palestinian land...
the cycle continues...
israel is inflaming tensions by continuing to build, then complaining to the us that the rest of the world is condemning them.
it is very easy. if you do not want to be criticized, stop doing shit that warrants such criticism...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
israel has the largest and most powerful military in the region. they can more than handle themselves. they do not need support from us. if you want to save money and resources, why would you not support the us ending it's $4 billion a year in military aid to israel every year?
do you know how israel was founded after WWII?
why would we move a potential palestinian state into iran or iraq?? the palestinian state has to be where it is proposed now. the land that israel is claiming is on palestinian land. the international community agrees on the pre-1967 borders and israel keeps building settlements on stolen land. sone places have apartheid conditions. we should not stand by such an ally as long as they keep doing what they are doing. we were against the aparthied in south africa, so why aren't we against it now in the israel/palestine conflict??
Well, I'm sure that $4 billion is helping with their poweful military (which I agree - other than size, I wouldn't want the US to mess with them). But, I have no problem reviewing what the money is used for to determine if that size support is necessary. (Just like every item from welfare to military should be reviewed and not simply looked at from where we are today, but what we really need).
And, yes Iran and Iraq are silly. But, there are other bordering nations. Why was that piece of land chosen? If the rest of the world determined that Iraq should have West Virginia, should we allow that? Why should Israel? It's the same exact thing. Just because it's convenient for everyone does not make it right.
And the concept of stolen land is yours. Again, just because a lot of folks believe that does not make it right.
And, I do agree that apartheid is wrong. As does the US. But why it was going on in South Africa is a completely different reason why it is happening there. In S. Africa it was pure racism. In Israel it is partially that (truth be told), but mostly safety reasons. And reason and intent are important. So, yes, we should councel Israel on it. But, we also have to look at the big picture.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
this is happening as a result of the palestinian efforts to get recognition from the un. israel will not negotiate with them so no peace deal can be made....palestine goes to the un to ask for something us brokered peace talks have never been able to accomplish....then israel punishes palestine by building more settlements at a faster rate on palestinian land...
the cycle continues...
israel is inflaming tensions by continuing to build, then complaining to the us that the rest of the world is condemning them.
it is very easy. if you do not want to be criticized, stop doing shit that warrants such criticism...
I love your slant that this is one sided. Palestine circumvents the peace process, but it's all Israel's fault. Too funny. Good for Israel. They have tried to negotiate. Just because they won't negotiate on Palestine's terms, does not mean they are not willing to negotiate. This is all a two way street. And, in this case I see Palestine as the main instigator.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
israel is inflaming tensions by continuing to build, then complaining to the us that the rest of the world is condemning them.
Israel complains to nobody. They do what they feel they need to do to protect their rights, land and people. If the Middle East would stop trying to hammer them and act more civily, perhaps they would return that in spades. I have every trust that Israel would be a willing partner in a civil discussion. Palestine and their allies have no interest in having Israel on the map let alone at a negotiation table.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
We weren't paying for them to get in, there is a law that prohibits the government from funding any portion of the UN that allows Palestine to become a full member. We were paying $60 million to a particular cultural agency within the UN that voted to grant Palestine full membership. Since that happened, we are no longer going to make that payment. That is where the $60 million was saved.
...
Thanx for the clarification.
So, basically, it was a donation... that we can no longer give... because a law... that we drafted. Gotcha.
...
It'd be like if I stopped my annual donation the the CCFA Team Challenge because Creed got back together and entered a team. One has nothing to do with the other... and I really like giving to the CCFA... but, I really don't care to hear new Creed songs on the radio everyday... therefore, I end my donation.
Okay... makes sense. I guess.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
yeah ... your opinion is based on objective reading on both sides ... :roll:
Well, we're both objective to our own opinions. Like I said - this constant - you should read more - response on here is not only unproductive, it's a bit insulting.
And if you get right down to it - none of us are purely objective. Anything we read is through the glasses of what we believe. We try to be as open minded as possible, but we all have to admit to seeing things the way we want to see them. That's why it's unhelpful to give slanted - it's all Israel's fault - opinions when copying an article. It's so clear that that's not the case that it all becomes laughable. Palestine can blatantly go against peace accords they've signed, and it's ok. But, it's not ok if Israel "rataliates."
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
yeah ... your opinion is based on objective reading on both sides ... :roll:
yeah that was what i was going to type.
i mean ... he types things that even pro-israeli folks don't type ... it's like it's right out of some right wing blog or something ...
anyone who think israel has suffered greatly this past decade is clearly not looking at the facts at all ...
Who said Israel has suffered? They have spent the last decade ensuring that they don't. Unlike many folks, they don't need to be told twice. They understand what folks are trying to do before they do it. It's like you saying you shouldn't wear a condom until AFTER your girlfriend gets pregnant. How many times does she have to get pregnant before you say - well, once she does such and such, maybe I should put a hat on.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Comments
I have not said a single word about whether Palestine should be a country or not. So, I don't know why that conclusion keeps getting drawn. But, as of this moment, they are not a recognized state. That is why I don't recognize it. Your logic is circular saying that I must recognize something that doesn't exist, but which would exist if I did. Is that your anti-god and/or pro-god argument, also?
There is a tract of valuable land that is being used by a meaningless body. Not only could revenues be generated by putting it to good use, taxes and other public goods could be obtained.
I'm tired of the US getting crapped on, and then everyone and their buddies trying to get appointments to live here free of any laws. How about it is placed in the Middle East? Or, France? I don't really care. It's a meaningless, powerless body that we shouldn't be wasting another cent on. By having it here, we are forgoing other goods for ourselves insted of hosting ungrateful folks. The funny thing is - it's housed here because we're one of the few countries that would allow such free speech about us on our own soil. How many countries would allow that?
First, I'd like you to name any of those things that have happened by the UN and UN alone that could not have been accomplished otherwise.
As for your last statement - that's the classic way we got into this debt crisis - well, it's always been that ways, so why should we stop spending now? We'll just add to spending. The point is, I don't have to sink any more money in to it. Why can't it rotate countries? Why does it need a fixed PHYSICAL location? And if it does, why don't we find some land as an international community that some country is willing to give up (or is not being used) and create a Vatican like sub-country for the UN to exist? Otherwise, why can't it's meeting place rotate similar to the World Cup or Olympics? Why does it need to be in a fixed location?
And again - if we are such crappy folks - why would folks even want to come here for the purpose of the UN? I think that's the underlying thing here. Folks like to sh*t on us, but they know it's the best country on Earth. So, they keep coming.
Ha, ha. I was obviously using hyperbole at the end. I don't think we're necessarily better than anyone else (though there's no place else I'd rather live). But, it does pose it's own question - why do all those diplomats enjoy living here so much? And would they be opposed to moving it to say, Chad (to pick a random country that shares the name with one of my sons and not meant to be offensive to anyone - this disclaimer for those that read potential offense into any word spoken)?
the reason it is not a state IS because you refuse to recognize it. if you don't recognize it, then it does not exist. i am sorry you are in the minority on this one. but the fact is that palestine is moving forward with it's desire to be a member of the un, and if they circumvent the americans and get recognition then good on them. god knows the americans are not doing anything to help them, rather we are doing anything and everything to roadblock them.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
meaningless body that however does some good and we are all better off for it ... according to you! ...
great ... i would love those high diplomatic paying jobs and all their economic spinoff here in toronto ... their contributions to the economy are welcomed anywhere ...
so you are angry because people criticize your country while having it's representatives here?? diplomacy is tough. you have to be willing to hear things you don't want to hear. if america actually was the beacon of freedom and civility and justice world wide that it claims to be then there would be no criticism. if america would get on board with the rest of the world in the quest for peace and humanity, and a just peace for the israelis and palestinians there would be no criticism. if we maintain the same policies towards palestine we will always be criticized. unfortunately it seems that the only thing the american government understands well is the use of military force...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i can only imagine how the rest of the countries that voted for this view the united states today..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Yep. We are wrong, and "everyone else" is right. So funny. Then folks should stop immigrating here, and start immigrating to Palestine instead.
I am FOR a Palestine State. In Jordan or Iran, or Iraq, or anywhere else that has supported their cause. Why do they need to take land from an already tiny nation? Why not take it from their allies that have land to spare? Would they agree to fully disarm if granted Statehood in what is Israel?
I bet you really think Israel is unprovoked in most of what they are doing (this is not absolving them of any wrong doing. But, if you were constantly under attack as they are you would protect yourself beyond your borders, as well). Much as you think US's might does not make right, the Middle East's on going war against Israel does not make it right.
We should continue to stand up with our ally regardless of other's weakening resolve.
dude ... you need to read up on this issue ... your comments make no sense ... it sounds like you are regurgitating standard right wing talking points ...
I am well acquainted with the issues. Nothing's that simple. Perhaps, you should broaden your reading material, as well (which is a cop out response for both of us).
How did we save $60 million... if we were never going to spend $60 million on letting Palestine in?
...
Also, doesn't France and England have their own free will to vote the way THEY want to vote? Or are we there to strong arm them into voting the way WE want them to vote?
Hail, Hail!!!
i've read from both sides ... there are israelis on this board who believe in a 2-state solution ... not only are you going against world opinion on this matter ... you are against a predominant israeli viewpoint ... only the hardliners (unfortunately, they have the power) are not interested in a 2-state solution ...
edit: fixing quote
The US should just back away from the whole deal. Our last representative before the UN vote should be Big John McCarthy so he can yell, "Let's get it on!" before declining to vote. Then we can just sit back with some popcorn and wait for the fireworks to start.
do you know how israel was founded after WWII?
why would we move a potential palestinian state into iran or iraq?? the palestinian state has to be where it is proposed now. the land that israel is claiming is on palestinian land. the international community agrees on the pre-1967 borders and israel keeps building settlements on stolen land. sone places have apartheid conditions. we should not stand by such an ally as long as they keep doing what they are doing. we were against the aparthied in south africa, so why aren't we against it now in the israel/palestine conflict??
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
We have a $80 million/year "donation" (or whatever you want to call it) to UNESCO. $60 million payment was due next month. Congress passed a law in 1990 that says if Palestine is admitted to any UN functions US will withdraw its funding from that function.
The law was not directed at UNESCO specifically because the US had a long gap in participation in UNESCO until about 2002 or so (can't remember the exact year or amount of absence, but it was something like 19 years). But, it was clearly directed at any movement on Palestine without the US' approval.
We can argue the correctness of any of this. But, that is how we just saved $60 million (THIS YEAR - it will be $80 million per year each year this continues, so in reality we could be saving that drop in the bucket for a longer period of time).
in either case we are talking about astronomical amounts of money here...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Israel to speed up settlement building in West Bank
Netanyahu calls for the construction of some 2,000 new units
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45121844/ns ... _n_africa/
this is happening as a result of the palestinian efforts to get recognition from the un. israel will not negotiate with them so no peace deal can be made....palestine goes to the un to ask for something us brokered peace talks have never been able to accomplish....then israel punishes palestine by building more settlements at a faster rate on palestinian land...
the cycle continues...
israel is inflaming tensions by continuing to build, then complaining to the us that the rest of the world is condemning them.
it is very easy. if you do not want to be criticized, stop doing shit that warrants such criticism...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Well, I'm sure that $4 billion is helping with their poweful military (which I agree - other than size, I wouldn't want the US to mess with them). But, I have no problem reviewing what the money is used for to determine if that size support is necessary. (Just like every item from welfare to military should be reviewed and not simply looked at from where we are today, but what we really need).
And, yes Iran and Iraq are silly. But, there are other bordering nations. Why was that piece of land chosen? If the rest of the world determined that Iraq should have West Virginia, should we allow that? Why should Israel? It's the same exact thing. Just because it's convenient for everyone does not make it right.
And the concept of stolen land is yours. Again, just because a lot of folks believe that does not make it right.
And, I do agree that apartheid is wrong. As does the US. But why it was going on in South Africa is a completely different reason why it is happening there. In S. Africa it was pure racism. In Israel it is partially that (truth be told), but mostly safety reasons. And reason and intent are important. So, yes, we should councel Israel on it. But, we also have to look at the big picture.
I love your slant that this is one sided. Palestine circumvents the peace process, but it's all Israel's fault. Too funny. Good for Israel. They have tried to negotiate. Just because they won't negotiate on Palestine's terms, does not mean they are not willing to negotiate. This is all a two way street. And, in this case I see Palestine as the main instigator.
Israel complains to nobody. They do what they feel they need to do to protect their rights, land and people. If the Middle East would stop trying to hammer them and act more civily, perhaps they would return that in spades. I have every trust that Israel would be a willing partner in a civil discussion. Palestine and their allies have no interest in having Israel on the map let alone at a negotiation table.
Thanx for the clarification.
So, basically, it was a donation... that we can no longer give... because a law... that we drafted. Gotcha.
...
It'd be like if I stopped my annual donation the the CCFA Team Challenge because Creed got back together and entered a team. One has nothing to do with the other... and I really like giving to the CCFA... but, I really don't care to hear new Creed songs on the radio everyday... therefore, I end my donation.
Okay... makes sense. I guess.
Hail, Hail!!!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i mean ... he types things that even pro-israeli folks don't type ... it's like it's right out of some right wing blog or something ...
anyone who think israel has suffered greatly this past decade is clearly not looking at the facts at all ...
Well, we're both objective to our own opinions.
And if you get right down to it - none of us are purely objective. Anything we read is through the glasses of what we believe. We try to be as open minded as possible, but we all have to admit to seeing things the way we want to see them. That's why it's unhelpful to give slanted - it's all Israel's fault - opinions when copying an article. It's so clear that that's not the case that it all becomes laughable. Palestine can blatantly go against peace accords they've signed, and it's ok. But, it's not ok if Israel "rataliates."
Who said Israel has suffered? They have spent the last decade ensuring that they don't. Unlike many folks, they don't need to be told twice. They understand what folks are trying to do before they do it. It's like you saying you shouldn't wear a condom until AFTER your girlfriend gets pregnant. How many times does she have to get pregnant before you say - well, once she does such and such, maybe I should put a hat on.