Ronald Reagan- Why was he so special??

Cosmo · October 2011

I try to take an objective view of Reagan. I mean, I voted for the guy twice.
On the pro side of the house, Reagan made us feel safe by taking a strong stance on the Soviet Union, Iran, Libya. I can see why Conservatives hold him up as a champion... even to today.
The Cons... well, with the light of hindsight... boy, do the blemishes show up.
We come to find out that the Soviet Union was not the technically advanced Super Power we were told they were. We should have seen the signs... like magnets sticking to the fuselages of Mig-31s and their primary battle rifle being basically unchanged since 1947.
We made some horrible choices in allies under Reagan. Usama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein come to mind. And guess who 'Negotiated With Terrorists'? Reagan. He negotiated with the Ayatollah Khoemeni Iran to sell them weapons in exchange for their part in negotiating terms with extremist hostage takers. He overcharged Iran for the weapons to use the excess funds to arm the terrorists in Nicaragua.
The 'Just Say No' campaign has cost us trillions of dollars and a lot of wasted lives for what? We taught our kids to say, 'No' to pot while stuffing Ritalin and Prozac down heir throats. The War On Drugs has been a fiasco... credit Mr. Reagan for that.
...
Of course... none of us saw the Bin Ladens or Drug War from the vantage point we had back then...
but, to still hold up Reagan as some sort of Conservative Saviour?
A Hollywood Actor interested in politics...
Who negotiated with terrorists to fund terrorism...
created Al Qaeda and Bin Laden...
supplied Saddam Hussein with the chemical weapons he ultimately used on his own people...
and started a War on Drugs that we are still paying for.
How do today's Conservatives reconcile the reality of the facts?

Byrnzie · October 2011

pandora wrote:

hero figure...my father adored him so I did too

And the fact that he pissed on the U.S constitution, sold arms illegally to Iran, and used the profits to fund death squads in Latin America that killed approx a million people (in the case of the Reagan-backed slaughter of Guatemalan's, an act described by the United Nations as genocide), doesn't stop you regarding him as a hero?

peacefrompaul · October 2011

Cosmo wrote:

I try to take an objective view of Reagan. I mean, I voted for the guy twice.
On the pro side of the house, Reagan made us feel safe by taking a strong stance on the Soviet Union, Iran, Libya. I can see why Conservatives hold him up as a champion... even to today.
The Cons... well, with the light of hindsight... boy, do the blemishes show up.
We come to find out that the Soviet Union was not the technically advanced Super Power we were told they were. We should have seen the signs... like magnets sticking to the fuselages of Mig-31s and their primary battle rifle being basically unchanged since 1947.
We made some horrible choices in allies under Reagan. Usama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein come to mind. And guess who 'Negotiated With Terrorists'? Reagan. He negotiated with the Ayatollah Khoemeni Iran to sell them weapons in exchange for their part in negotiating terms with extremist hostage takers. He overcharged Iran for the weapons to use the excess funds to arm the terrorists in Nicaragua.
The 'Just Say No' campaign has cost us trillions of dollars and a lot of wasted lives for what? We taught our kids to say, 'No' to pot while stuffing Ritalin and Prozac down heir throats. The War On Drugs has been a fiasco... credit Mr. Reagan for that.
...
Of course... none of us saw the Bin Ladens or Drug War from the vantage point we had back then...
but, to still hold up Reagan as some sort of Conservative Saviour?
A Hollywood Actor interested in politics...
Who negotiated with terrorists to fund terrorism...
created Al Qaeda and Bin Laden...
supplied Saddam Hussein with the chemical weapons he ultimately used on his own people...
and started a War on Drugs that we are still paying for.
How do today's Conservatives reconcile the reality of the facts?

:clap: :thumbup:

Byrnzie · October 2011

Cosmo wrote:

How do today's Conservatives reconcile the reality of the facts?

They don't.

They ignore the facts and instead talk about how he had rosy cheeks and a nice voice, claim that criticism of him is a case of historical revisionism, and then call him a hero.

Smellyman · October 2011

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

hero figure...my father adored him so I did too

And the fact that he pissed on the U.S constitution, sold arms illegally to Iran, and used the profits to fund death squads in Latin America that killed approx a million people (in the case of the Reagan-backed slaughter of Guatemalan's, an act described by the United Nations as genocide), doesn't stop you regarding him as a hero?

sad isn't it?

ComeToTX · October 2011

He was GREAT.......at ignoring AIDS.

Chip McFlennigan · October 2011

Byrnzie wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

How do today's Conservatives reconcile the reality of the facts?

They don't.

They ignore the facts and instead talk about how he had rosy cheeks and a nice voice, claim that criticism of him is a case of historical revisionism, and then call him a hero.

Hey, he fucked the country up pretty badly. The only decent president we've had in my lifetime has been Slick Willy, and even that was only for the first six years of his tenure.

Jason P · October 2011

I remember being real excited about Reagan's Star Wars program as a kid ... although I thought it meant we would have X-Wing fighters available by now.

skeetopunk01 · October 2011

Lets see...who increased the U.S. debt the most since President Gerald Ford? You got it.... Mr. Ronald Reagan.

Was it Republican or Democrat presidents that increased the U.S. debt more since 1974.....? REPUBLICANS!

peacefrompaul · October 2011

skeetopunk01 wrote:

Lets see...who increased the U.S. debt the most since President Gerald Ford? You got it.... Mr. Ronald Reagan.

Was it Republican or Democrat presidents that increased the U.S. debt more since 1974.....? REPUBLICANS!

:think: this is true. But, it has continued to go up under Obama.

pjfan021 · October 2011

ComeToTX wrote:

He was GREAT.......at ignoring AIDS.

RIGHT? I can't believe how nobody ever cares about it...ron did shit about aids and i don't care what people say, he has the blood of a lot of people on his hands domestically and abroad. He more than dobuled the national debt

FiveB247x · October 2011

I do not like Reagan or his policies but people forget with time that he represented a re-invigoration of American pride during a bad time in America's psyche. Watergate had just passed, Carter was a lame leader and the pan-arab movement helped capture the energy market as well as some american captives. Albeit, full of shit and not really following his policies and ideas through til the end, he stood for a strong America and represented a semblance of a strong America in a dark period. If you don't recognize the time frame he served in accordance with his policies, it seems misplaced and out of character. As I mentioned, I don't like either, but he did bolster our national psyche for a brief period. Other than that, I find him drastically over-rated by many.

whygohome · October 2011

FiveB247x wrote:

I do not like Reagan or his policies but people forget with time that he represented a re-invigoration of American pride during a bad time in America's psyche. Watergate had just passed, Carter was a lame leader and the pan-arab movement helped capture the energy market as well as some american captives. Albeit, full of shit and not really following his policies and ideas through til the end, he stood for a strong America and represented a semblance of a strong America in a dark period. If you don't recognize the time frame he served in accordance with his policies, it seems misplaced and out of character. As I mentioned, I don't like either, but he did bolster our national psyche for a brief period. Other than that, I find him drastically over-rated by many.

This is a good point.

On another note (because this thread reminds me of this) is that I have to laugh when friends of mine praise Reagan and I simply ask them "why?" They say: small government (false), he lowered taxes (only benefited the rich and then he raised taxes over ten times), spending (he doubled the national debt), honesty (he negotiated with terrorists and supported slaughter campaigns in Central America).........

Too funny.

gimmesometruth27 · October 2011

whygohome wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I do not like Reagan or his policies but people forget with time that he represented a re-invigoration of American pride during a bad time in America's psyche. Watergate had just passed, Carter was a lame leader and the pan-arab movement helped capture the energy market as well as some american captives. Albeit, full of shit and not really following his policies and ideas through til the end, he stood for a strong America and represented a semblance of a strong America in a dark period. If you don't recognize the time frame he served in accordance with his policies, it seems misplaced and out of character. As I mentioned, I don't like either, but he did bolster our national psyche for a brief period. Other than that, I find him drastically over-rated by many.

This is a good point.

On another note (because this thread reminds me of this) is that I have to laugh when friends of mine praise Reagan and I simply ask them "why?" They say: small government (false), he lowered taxes (only benefited the rich and then he raised taxes over ten times), spending (he doubled the national debt), honesty (he negotiated with terrorists and supported slaughter campaigns in Central America).........

Too funny.

these are things that fox news conveniently leaves out when they lionize this man and tell their viewers how great he was and how this country needs another one of him and we need to go back to his policies...

Cosmo · October 2011

What do Conservatives feel about NAFTA?
I hope they realize that NAFTA is Reagan's vision.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Report ... -Agreement
"Long-Standing Support for Free Trade with Mexico. Ronald Reagan first proposed a free trade agreement between the U.S. and Mexico in his 1980 presidential campaign. Since that time, The Heritage Foundation is proud of the role it has played in articulating President Reagan's vision of free trade in Latin America and around the world. Since the mid-1980s, Heritage analysts have been stressing that a free trade agreement with Mexico not only will stimulate economic growth in the U.S., but will make Mexico a more stable and prosperous country. Heritage has published over three dozen studies stressing the benefits of free trade in North America."

http://www.fina-nafi.org/eng/integ/chro ... menu=integ

davidtrios · October 2011

thanks to ron paul at the republican debate in vegas, i learned that reagan negotiated with terrorists....trading weapons for hostages with IRAN! why is he so special again?

:?

Go Beavers · October 2011

Davidtrios wrote:

thanks to ron paul at the republican debate in vegas, i learned that reagan negotiated with terrorists....trading weapons for hostages with IRAN! why is he so special again?

:?

And Oliver North gets a tv show.

whygohome · October 2011

Davidtrios wrote:

thanks to ron paul at the republican debate in vegas, i learned that reagan negotiated with terrorists....trading weapons for hostages with IRAN! why is he so special again?

:?

Reagan admitted this in '87 in an address to the American people from the Oval Office. His approval rating skyrocketed. Doesn't make much sense to me: if Obama did the same, his approval rating would plummet.

p.s. Bush's approval skyrocketed after 9/11. Go figure

Cosmo · October 2011

Davidtrios wrote:

thanks to Ron Paul at the republican debate in Vegas, i learned that Reagan negotiated with terrorists....trading weapons for hostages with IRAN! why is he so special again?
:?

...
Negotiated with terrorists in Iran and armed terrorists in Central America... AND...
Under his administration, created and trainned Islamic terrorists, including Bin Laden and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, developed the tactical use of I.D.Es against far superior military armored forces, provided Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons development programs, dumped the mentally ill onto the streets of American citiies by dismanteling the mental health institutions, created the vision of NAFTA, granted amnesty to illegal immigrants and raised taxes.
...
Yet, most Conservatives choose to ignore these facts and continue to hold him up as the Patron Saint of Conservatism.

whygohome · October 2011

Cosmo wrote:

Davidtrios wrote:

thanks to Ron Paul at the republican debate in Vegas, i learned that Reagan negotiated with terrorists....trading weapons for hostages with IRAN! why is he so special again?
:?

...
Negotiated with terrorists in Iran and armed terrorists in Central America... AND...
Under his administration, created and trainned Islamic terrorists, including Bin Laden and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, developed the tactical use of I.D.Es against far superior military armored forces, provided Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons development programs, dumped the mentally ill onto the streets of American citiies by dismanteling the mental health institutions, created the vision of NAFTA, granted amnesty to illegal immigrants and raised taxes.
...
Yet, most Conservatives choose to ignore these facts and continue to hold him up as the Patron Saint of Conservatism.

What good are facts when "It's Morning in America"

Ronald Reagan- Why was he so special??

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