The Death Penalty

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  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I also beg to differ that prison would ever be desired over freedom, no matter how poor one is.
    Freedom is a basic human need.

    actually, in colder climates such as where I live, sometimes homeless people commit petty crimes to get thrown in jail for the night or two, get a solid meal and a warm sleep.

    but no, you're right, no one's going to commit murder so they can have something to eat for 25 years. at least, I've never heard of any cases like that.

    I have seen guy's in jail that got busted purpesly to get out of the rain and have a meal...no shit I'm not kidding one time it was like "old home week" in county lock up and they were talking about what they did to get in jail most got busted for urinating in public some for stealing from the liquor stores.

    Godfather.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    fear4freedom wrote:
    we play God everytime we perform an abortion! I bet you are pro choice! LOL
    How can you be for aboriton and against Capital Punishment? WOW
    I am and see why you don't understand how I can be and of course you will not agree with me.
    but...

    Pro choice is just that ... the right to choose. Woman were given this choice not as a right to kill
    but as the right to choose and be safe.
    The right was given and should not be taken away now,
    can not be taken away.
    It is necessary for protecting women.

    But it is a choice and much can be done, is being done, to help women choose life
    when this is a possibility for them

    Capital punishment is killing someone who has killed. It is not what a civilized country
    should do, it does not deter anyone from killing, innocent people end up dead,
    and above all else the guilty can and do change in prison. They interact with people everyday...
    some negative some positive but it is through interaction that humans learn on their paths.
    To execute, Lord I despise that word, stops the chance for someone to walk their path and the
    opportunity to become a better person on it.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    yes it is but some cases call for an execution while some call for life in prisonment. not all cases call for either. i think anyone could make the argument that the death pentaly is used waytoo often, but i don't believe in saying it never should be or could be used. in some cases death is absolutely just and justice. and if you believe in heavan and hell well some people just deserve to go directly to hell and this world is better off the sooner some of those go. that's just my opinion.

    if the christian god is all forgiving of all those that repent/believe, then this guy just got a fast track to heaven. way to "punish" him, America.

    please explain to me how killing someone is more just than locking them up and throwing away the key? how is the world better off? none of us on the outside of those prison walls would know any different, would we?

    simple it rids the world of evil. should this evil person be allowed to interact with others giving them a possible chance of killing again? a few give up that right. i'm not saying all cases but some just do.

    and being against it for some religious belief well that is not a thought out logical argument in my opinion.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    I believe in evil but not everyone who kills is evil. I agree with some crimes,
    its perhaps obvious they were committed for the joy of killing alone,
    which one could reason as evil. There is a strong power there.

    But for me, then I find out that this person,
    long before conscious thought was horribly mistreated.
    Beyond understanding,
    this twisted the mind as the torment continued until they were free on their own.
    Then with each kill the hate is released. The pay back for the pain, the pay back to society.

    Because we can not know, even in heinous acts, if evil is present
    we can not use it to condone killing. And also the issue of mental illness comes into play.

    I just don't see where it is ever right to take a life unless it is to preserve your own or another.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    pandora wrote:
    I just don't see where it is ever right to take a life unless it is to preserve your own or another.

    well an executed prisoner will never take another life so it is doing some preservation.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    pjhawks wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I just don't see where it is ever right to take a life unless it is to preserve your own or another.

    well an executed prisoner will never take another life so it is doing some preservation.
    what if he was innocent though ... this the real threat to society.
    I personally want no part of that. One innocent executed shows, to me, the practice fails.
    And was perhaps a message straight from God, one we have not learned yet....
    Don't kill each other.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    pandora wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I just don't see where it is ever right to take a life unless it is to preserve your own or another.

    well an executed prisoner will never take another life so it is doing some preservation.
    what if he was innocent though ... this the real threat to society.
    I personally want no part of that. One innocent executed shows, to me, the practice fails.
    And was perhaps a message straight from God, one we have not learned yet....
    Don't kill each other.

    agree on the innocent men but my belief is there should be 100% certainty of guilt before an execution. to me the issue is not that we do it, but that we do it way too often. as i said i think some cases call for it but would also agree that in most cases it is not called for. saying fully 100% yes or no either way for or against it to me is too strident either way.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    pjhawks wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    what if he was innocent though ... this the real threat to society.
    I personally want no part of that. One innocent executed shows, to me, the practice fails.
    And was perhaps a message straight from God, one we have not learned yet....
    Don't kill each other.

    agree on the innocent men but my belief is there should be 100% certainty of guilt before an execution. to me the issue is not that we do it, but that we do it way too often. as i said i think some cases call for it but would also agree that in most cases it is not called for. saying fully 100% yes or no either way for or against it to me is too strident either way.
    I understand your point.

    Law though is so black and white sometimes to the point of ridiculous
    and without common sense.

    And who would ever determine who should die for what crimes?
    How can treason or shooting a peace officer be any worse
    than rape and murder of a young mother in front of her child.

    And what about mistakes we can not ever guarantee they will not be made.

    I will always return to the fact it is all killing, all wrong, even when done by the state.
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    pjhawks wrote:
    and being against it for some religious belief well that is not a thought out logical argument in my opinion.

    HAHA. I think you misunderstood my point.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    He was 14 yrs. 6mos. and 5 days old --- and the youngest person executed in the United States in the 20th Century
    George Junius Stinney, Jr.,

    [b. 1929 - d. 1944]

    In a South Carolina prison sixty-six years ago, guards walked a 14-year-old boy, bible tucked under his arm, to the electric chair. At 5' 1" and 95 pounds, the straps didn’t fit, and an electrode was too big for his leg.

    The switch was pulled and the adult sized death mask fell from George Stinney’s face. Tears streamed from his eyes. Witnesses recoiled in horror as they watched the youngest person executed in the United States in the past century die.


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22067139@N05/5251556905/
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    pjhawks wrote:
    agree on the innocent men but my belief is there should be 100% certainty of guilt before an execution. to me the issue is not that we do it, but that we do it way too often. as i said i think some cases call for it but would also agree that in most cases it is not called for. saying fully 100% yes or no either way for or against it to me is too strident either way.

    as someone else pointed it, guilt or innocence isn't even the biggest part. it's how we are so arrogant that we feel it is our choice to take the life of another, no matter what they did.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    he still stands wrote:
    He was 14 yrs. 6mos. and 5 days old --- and the youngest person executed in the United States in the 20th Century
    George Junius Stinney, Jr.,

    [b. 1929 - d. 1944]

    In a South Carolina prison sixty-six years ago, guards walked a 14-year-old boy, bible tucked under his arm, to the electric chair. At 5' 1" and 95 pounds, the straps didn’t fit, and an electrode was too big for his leg.

    The switch was pulled and the adult sized death mask fell from George Stinney’s face. Tears streamed from his eyes. Witnesses recoiled in horror as they watched the youngest person executed in the United States in the past century die.


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22067139@N05/5251556905/

    OH MY GOD. :cry:
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    he still stands wrote:
    He was 14 yrs. 6mos. and 5 days old --- and the youngest person executed in the United States in the 20th Century
    George Junius Stinney, Jr.,

    [b. 1929 - d. 1944]

    In a South Carolina prison sixty-six years ago, guards walked a 14-year-old boy, bible tucked under his arm, to the electric chair. At 5' 1" and 95 pounds, the straps didn’t fit, and an electrode was too big for his leg.

    The switch was pulled and the adult sized death mask fell from George Stinney’s face. Tears streamed from his eyes. Witnesses recoiled in horror as they watched the youngest person executed in the United States in the past century die.


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22067139@N05/5251556905/

    That is so fucked up. I can't even fathom this.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Good for Maryland:

    "In 2009, Maryland lawmakers prohibited prosecutors from seeking death unless they have DNA evidence, a videotape of the crime or a videotaped confession from the suspect.

    "Eyewitness testimony is so horribly inaccurate — even under the very best of circumstances," said Rob Warden, director of the Chicago-based Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University. "We should never depend on eyewitness testimony in death penalty cases."

    The center says that nationally, out of 138 defendants sentenced to death for murder and then later exonerated since the mid-1970s, 32 had been convicted in whole or in part based on erroneous eyewitness testimony."

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/natio ... 81394.html

    With all the mistakes, I'm amazed anybody can support such a flawed system. :?
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • Chip McFlennigan
    Chip McFlennigan Posts: 1,162
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    Good for Maryland:

    "In 2009, Maryland lawmakers prohibited prosecutors from seeking death unless they have DNA evidence, a videotape of the crime or a videotaped confession from the suspect.

    "Eyewitness testimony is so horribly inaccurate — even under the very best of circumstances," said Rob Warden, director of the Chicago-based Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University. "We should never depend on eyewitness testimony in death penalty cases."

    The center says that nationally, out of 138 defendants sentenced to death for murder and then later exonerated since the mid-1970s, 32 had been convicted in whole or in part based on erroneous eyewitness testimony."

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/natio ... 81394.html

    With all the mistakes, I'm amazed anybody can support such a flawed system. :?

    Well shit, if eyewitness testimony is so suspect, why are we even putting these quality citizens in jail?
    I knew it all along, see?
  • Chip McFlennigan
    Chip McFlennigan Posts: 1,162
    I think giving killers and rapists decent living conditions for a few decades on my dime is a cool way to fix problems in society.

    So long as they get HD TV's and mattresses that don't hurt their backs, weight rooms, basketball courts, and three meals a day, I have no problem with putting bad criminals in prison.

    For example: a guy goes and holds a chick at knifepoint. He tells her to take her clothes off. She of course says no and begs him to let her go. He responds by slapping her in the face, pulling her hair, and making her suck his dick, lest she be stabbed to death. He then rips her clothes off and forcefully penetrates her, raping and hitting her as she cries and screams for help. After he ejaculates inside of her, possibly giving her an STD, he warns her not to tell anyone what happened, and beats her until she's unconscious. As icing on the cake, he steals her wallet.

    Doesn't sound like an animal to me. Sounds like a misunderstood individual who deserves a second chance. It's nothing the rest of us might not accidentally do someday, right?

    I mean, shit, if he goes to jail, I think he deserves to at least have good living conditions. He is a human being, after all. If he shows recognizance, we ought to give him an early release and even give him financial assistance for a few years while he relearns how to be a productive member of society.

    I'm sure there's a good person inside of him, just waiting for understanding and guidance. Everyone is beautiful in their own way.
    I knew it all along, see?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    johnny america wrote:
    I think giving killers and rapists decent living conditions for a few decades on my dime is a cool way to fix problems in society.

    So long as they get HD TV's and mattresses that don't hurt their backs, weight rooms, basketball courts, and three meals a day, I have no problem with putting bad criminals in prison.

    For example: a guy goes and holds a chick at knifepoint. He tells her to take her clothes off. She of course says no and begs him to let her go. He responds by slapping her in the face, pulling her hair, and making her suck his dick, lest she be stabbed to death. He then rips her clothes off and forcefully penetrates her, raping and hitting her as she cries and screams for help. After he ejaculates inside of her, possibly giving her an STD, he warns her not to tell anyone what happened, and beats her until she's unconscious. As icing on the cake, he steals her wallet.

    Doesn't sound like an animal to me. Sounds like a misunderstood individual who deserves a second chance. It's nothing the rest of us might not accidentally do someday, right?

    I mean, shit, if he goes to jail, I think he deserves to at least have good living conditions. He is a human being, after all. If he shows recognizance, we ought to give him an early release and even give him financial assistance for a few years while he relearns how to be a productive member of society.

    I'm sure there's a good person inside of him, just waiting for understanding and guidance. Everyone is beautiful in their own way.


    I don't think anybody here has any respect for creeps like the one you describe. However, the fact remains that societies in which the death penalty is banned have lower incidences of violent crimes (such as the one you so graphically describe for us). Our society is brutal and violent. That is why we have more violent crimes. The death penalty has not lessened these incidents but, rather, has increased them. We need to work on becoming a less violent society.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Chip McFlennigan
    Chip McFlennigan Posts: 1,162
    brianlux wrote:
    johnny america wrote:
    I think giving killers and rapists decent living conditions for a few decades on my dime is a cool way to fix problems in society.

    So long as they get HD TV's and mattresses that don't hurt their backs, weight rooms, basketball courts, and three meals a day, I have no problem with putting bad criminals in prison.

    For example: a guy goes and holds a chick at knifepoint. He tells her to take her clothes off. She of course says no and begs him to let her go. He responds by slapping her in the face, pulling her hair, and making her suck his dick, lest she be stabbed to death. He then rips her clothes off and forcefully penetrates her, raping and hitting her as she cries and screams for help. After he ejaculates inside of her, possibly giving her an STD, he warns her not to tell anyone what happened, and beats her until she's unconscious. As icing on the cake, he steals her wallet.

    Doesn't sound like an animal to me. Sounds like a misunderstood individual who deserves a second chance. It's nothing the rest of us might not accidentally do someday, right?

    I mean, shit, if he goes to jail, I think he deserves to at least have good living conditions. He is a human being, after all. If he shows recognizance, we ought to give him an early release and even give him financial assistance for a few years while he relearns how to be a productive member of society.

    I'm sure there's a good person inside of him, just waiting for understanding and guidance. Everyone is beautiful in their own way.


    I don't think anybody here has any respect for creeps like the one you describe. However, the fact remains that societies in which the death penalty is banned have lower incidences of violent crimes (such as the one you so graphically describe for us). Our society is brutal and violent. That is why we have more violent crimes. The death penalty has not lessened these incidents but, rather, has increased them. We need to work on becoming a less violent society.

    While I agree that the death penalty is not and never will be a deterrent, I doubt people would argue that our joke of a prison system is one, either.

    I agree that we need to work on improving as a society, but, I also feel like we should put a bullet in the heads of those who have no regard for the lives of innocent, productive, defenseless citizens. I have neither respect nor reverence for the lives of those who would rape women and children, or those who would kill innocents in cold blood.

    As someone who has witnessed first hand the scenes and direct affect of murder and rape on innocents, I personally would not shed any tears if those who committed these heinous crimes (so long as it were proven they were guilty) were killed in the most cost-efficient manner possible.

    I used to be against the death penalty. Then, I became privy to the world of cold-blooded criminals who would harm others again if provided with the opportunity. To look into a killer's eyes hours after the fact, and see pride, makes me sick.
    I knew it all along, see?
  • blueandwhite
    blueandwhite Posts: 662
    johnny america wrote:

    While I agree that the death penalty is not and never will be a deterrent, I doubt people would argue that our joke of a prison system is one, either.

    I agree that we need to work on improving as a society, but, I also feel like we should put a bullet in the heads of those who have no regard for the lives of innocent, productive, defenseless citizens. I have neither respect nor reverence for the lives of those who would rape women and children, or those who would kill innocents in cold blood.

    As someone who has witnessed first hand the scenes and direct affect of murder and rape on innocents, I personally would not shed any tears if those who committed these heinous crimes (so long as it were proven they were guilty) were killed in the most cost-efficient manner possible.

    I used to be against the death penalty. Then, I became privy to the world of cold-blooded criminals who would harm others again if provided with the opportunity. To look into a killer's eyes hours after the fact, and see pride, makes me sick.


    Deterrent? Do you really think that a person who brutally murders or rapes somebody is preoccupied with what the deterrent might be? I can't imagine that the consequences of such an act weighs heavily on the conscience of a murderer or rapist when he commits his crimes. As far as I'm concerned, the death penalty is simply a way for society to act out its primal fantasies. For centuries, death sentences were carried out in front of a public audience and provided entertainment for the masses. I don't think that the concept is that different today.

    I have one question for you; what happens when you execute an innocent man? When the state commits murder, why is it that nobody is accountable? It's incredibly easy to say that criminals should be executed for their crimes but how do you reconcile the inevitable loss of innocent life? You state that you won't shed tears for an executed criminal. What about a wrongly convicted man who is sentenced to death? Does he deserve your compassion?
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Just finished watching the airing of the new WM3 after their release
    show from Sunday night.

    Couldn't help but look into Damien's big brown eyes
    and think he might not have been here if not for the dedication of kind souls....
    the guardian angels that saved him.

    Another very good example why there should be no death penalty.

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