The Death Penalty

he still stands

debate won by the guy that says; "duh it's common sense!"

this place is an intellectual wasteland.

catefrances

he still stands wrote:

my argument against the death penalty has nothing to do with possibly executing innocent victims (although that is obviously a concern).

Man has no business playing God. It is that simple.

Man plays God every single day. its a by product of our intelligence. and we use science to do it..

fear4freedom

catefrances wrote:

he still stands wrote:

my argument against the death penalty has nothing to do with possibly executing innocent victims (although that is obviously a concern).

Man has no business playing God. It is that simple.

Man plays God every single day. its a by product of our intelligence. and we use science to do it..

Man plays God when he murders an innocent victim! Or when he rapes a 14 year old girl and then decides to kill her mom cause her mom came home! That is a man taking away the innocence of a girl, and killing another innocent victim! That man plays God first! EYE FOR AN EYE!

he still stands

catefrances wrote:

he still stands wrote:

my argument against the death penalty has nothing to do with possibly executing innocent victims (although that is obviously a concern).

Man has no business playing God. It is that simple.

Man plays God every single day. its a by product of our intelligence. and we use science to do it..

First of all, we are NOT all that intelligent. Just because we have language, the time-binding semantic circuit, and opposable thumbs.... that doesn't rationalize our governments murdering citizens.

Secondly, your statement is an oxymoron, because truly intelligent species would not go around killing each other as a form of punishment.

fear4freedom

Byrnzie wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

its nice to know that you love facts....first of all you cannot compare state to state and take those numbers as your only source of result! States with big cities....are different than states without cities! You cannot compare it that way.....Its common sense.....lets see if you can think about this....ready? Many more people would turn evil and up their crimes or rape and murder and armed robbery....if there were NO Capital Punishment! You cannot measure it! Its common sense! You were never disciplined when you were young? This is a form of fear discipline for the weak evil minds out there! For 1/3 of most poor people....prison is better than the poor life they live.....if there was no capital punishment......might as well get a good rape and murder in....so you can go live for free for the rest of your life! For people who are evil.....this rule is a detterent!
There is no scientific evidence for this...you make me laugh! ITS COMMON SENSE!
Thats like saying speed limit signs dont limit peoples driving speeds!
Thats like saying that any form of discipline...doesnt work!
Its all common sense and necessary!

States such as idaho, north dakota, nebraska, and many others....cannot be compared to states such as New York, California, Texas, etc. just not the same! ALSO>>>>Cannot compare USA to any other country! Its just not the same! There are many variables in the USA that dont exist anywhere else! HEY At least we arent like China and going out and secretly killing people ......thats what they do! They kill 5000+ per year....we kill about 45!
Again....i will rule over 310 million people by killing only 45 each year....anyday! Thats totally worth it!


Interesting response. Can you please now tell us which states in the U.S have no cities? Thanks.


The death penalty does not work as a deterrent and it never did.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-a ... th-penalty
March 18, 2011

Criminologists' Views on Deterrence and the Death Penalty

A recent survey of the most leading criminologists in the country from found that the overwhelming majority did not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. Eighty-eight percent of the country’s top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide, according to a new study published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology and authored by Professor Michael Radelet, Chair of the Department of Sociology at the University of Colorado-Boulder, and Traci Lacock, also at Boulder.

http://deathpenaltycurriculum.org/stude ... ment1b.htm
'...some criminologists, such as William Bowers of Northeastern University, maintain that the death penalty has the opposite effect: that is, society is brutalized by the use of the death penalty, and this increases the likelihood of more murder. Even most supporters of the death penalty now place little or no weight on deterrence as a serious justification for its continued use.

States in the United States that do not employ the death penalty generally have lower murder rates than states that do. The same is true when the U.S. is compared to countries similar to it. The U.S., with the death penalty, has a higher murder rate than the countries of Europe or Canada, which do not use the death penalty.

The death penalty is not a deterrent because most people who commit murders either do not expect to be caught or do not carefully weigh the differences between a possible execution and life in prison before they act. Frequently, murders are committed in moments of passion or anger, or by criminals who are substance abusers and acted impulsively. As someone who presided over many of Texas's executions, former Texas Attorney General Jim Mattox has remarked, "It is my own experience that those executed in Texas were not deterred by the existence of the death penalty law. I think in most cases you'll find that the murder was committed under severe drug and alcohol abuse."

There is no conclusive proof that the death penalty acts as a better deterrent than the threat of life imprisonment. A survey of the former and present presidents of the country's top academic criminological societies found that 84% of these experts rejected the notion that research had demonstrated any deterrent effect from the death penalty .

Byrnzie

fear4freedom wrote:

States such as idaho, north dakota, nebraska, and many others....cannot be compared to states such as New York, California, Texas, etc. just not the same! ALSO>>>>Cannot compare USA to any other country! Its just not the same! There are many variables in the USA that dont exist anywhere else! HEY At least we arent like China and going out and secretly killing people ......thats what they do! They kill 5000+ per year....we kill about 45!
Again....i will rule over 310 million people by killing only 45 each year....anyday! Thats totally worth it!I

Who's comparing New York state to Idaho? You are. You're cherry picking. Why not compare Wyoming (death penalty)to Illinois (no death penalty)? Or Montana (death penalty) to New Jersey (No death penalty)?

88% of the country’s top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent. What's your view on that?

catefrances

fear4freedom wrote:

catefrances wrote:

he still stands wrote:

my argument against the death penalty has nothing to do with possibly executing innocent victims (although that is obviously a concern).

Man has no business playing God. It is that simple.

Man plays God every single day. its a by product of our intelligence. and we use science to do it..

Man plays God when he murders an innocent victim! Or when he rapes a 14 year old girl and then decides to kill her mom cause her mom came home! That is a man taking away the innocence of a girl, and killing another innocent victim! That man plays God first! EYE FOR AN EYE!

disagree.

do you think the capacity to kill isnt innate in all mankind? do you somehow think its not a part of our makeup? i do not see killing as playing God. i do however see revenge as playing God. who we, as a society choose to kill, and in fact that we choose to kill under the guise of justice, says a lot about us as a supposed civilised society. the fact that we choose to kill as some sort of perverse justice IS imo playing God. when we say killing is wrong and then kill a killer.. what is that? do not think for one second that i am of the opinion that murder is ok and that all murderes should be given a walk. i do not. they should be deprived of their liberty for deproving someone else of theirs. but i do not support capital punishment, which no matter which way you cut it, IS murder, for ANY reason.

catefrances

he still stands wrote:

catefrances wrote:

he still stands wrote:

my argument against the death penalty has nothing to do with possibly executing innocent victims (although that is obviously a concern).

Man has no business playing God. It is that simple.

Man plays God every single day. its a by product of our intelligence. and we use science to do it..

First of all, we are NOT all that intelligent. Just because we have language, the time-binding semantic circuit, and opposable thumbs.... that doesn't rationalize our governments murdering citizens.

Secondly, your statement is an oxymoron, because truly intelligent species would not go around killing each other as a form of punishment.

firstly.. we ARE intelligent. look at all weve accomplished. our advanced societies are not a measure of a non intellgent species. however there are some issues where we tend to go with our gut, our instinct if you prefer. you hurt me, i hurt you back. you kill one of mine, i kill one of yours. thats old testament talk and it needs to be gotten past if we as a species expect to advance.

and secondly, i think you missed my point. i am AGAINST capital punishment. mankind plays God every day through advancements in medical technology. we can now give the infertile, a child. we can now keep a person alive... if we were to separate them from the machines helping them breath and leave it to nature, they would die.

fear4freedom

we play God everytime we perform an abortion! I bet you are pro choice! LOL
How can you be for aboriton and against Capital Punishment? WOW

catefrances

fear4freedom wrote:

we play God everytime we perform an abortion! I bet you are pro choice! LOL
How can you be for aboriton and against Capital Punishment? WOW

this is true.. we do play God, for want of a better term, when we perform an abortion. not a point i can dispute nor am i trying to.

EZ1221C

fear4freedom wrote:

we play God everytime we perform an abortion! I bet you are pro choice! LOL
How can you be for aboriton and against Capital Punishment? WOW

let me ask you your question: how can you be against abortion, but for capital punishment? since both are "playing God" in your eyes, shouldn't you be against both?

Byrnzie

fear4freedom wrote:

we play God everytime we perform an abortion! I bet you are pro choice! LOL
How can you be for aboriton and against Capital Punishment? WOW

An unborn fetus isn't a human being.

EZ1221C

fear4freedom wrote:

we play God everytime we perform an abortion! I bet you are pro choice! LOL
How can you be for aboriton and against Capital Punishment? WOW

also to me at least being pro choice is more than just "playing god" it is about freedom, the very freedom the conservatives tout, the freedom of choice.

catefrances

EZ1221C wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

we play God everytime we perform an abortion! I bet you are pro choice! LOL
How can you be for aboriton and against Capital Punishment? WOW

also to me at least being pro choice is more than just "playing god" it is about freedom, the very freedom the conservatives tout, the freedom of choice.

but then theyll argue that the baby didnt have a choice.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

fear4freedom wrote:

we play God everytime we perform an abortion! I bet you are pro choice! LOL
How can you be for aboriton and against Capital Punishment? WOW

you're about 5 incarnations of this thread too late. go back and read a bit. this is all done and tired.

keeponrockin

fear4freedom wrote:

its nice to know that you love facts....first of all you cannot compare state to state and take those numbers as your only source of result! States with big cities....are different than states without cities! You cannot compare it that way.....Its common sense.....lets see if you can think about this....ready? Many more people would turn evil and up their crimes or rape and murder and armed robbery....if there were NO Capital Punishment! You cannot measure it! Its common sense! You were never disciplined when you were young? This is a form of fear discipline for the weak evil minds out there! For 1/3 of most poor people....prison is better than the poor life they live.....if there was no capital punishment......might as well get a good rape and murder in....so you can go live for free for the rest of your life! For people who are evil.....this rule is a detterent!
There is no scientific evidence for this...you make me laugh! ITS COMMON SENSE!
Thats like saying speed limit signs dont limit peoples driving speeds!
Thats like saying that any form of discipline...doesnt work!
Its all common sense and necessary!

If you cannot prove something using stats, it isn't true. And there are some forms of discipline that DON'T work. And 1/3 of most poor people quote, can you prove that?

pandora

I don't think the death penalty is a deterrent at all...
taking a life makes no sense to me be that by a murderer or the state.

NO killing is common sense.
Try explaining capital punishment to a child. They have great innocent simple common sense.
Tell the child when a person kills that is wrong but the punishment is to be killed.
That makes no sense.
Two wrongs never make a right ...just two wrongs.

I also beg to differ that prison would ever be desired over freedom, no matter how poor one is.
Freedom is a basic human need.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pandora wrote:

I also beg to differ that prison would ever be desired over freedom, no matter how poor one is.
Freedom is a basic human need.

actually, in colder climates such as where I live, sometimes homeless people commit petty crimes to get thrown in jail for the night or two, get a solid meal and a warm sleep.

but no, you're right, no one's going to commit murder so they can have something to eat for 25 years. at least, I've never heard of any cases like that.

pjhawks

blueandwhite wrote:

Life in prison is also a punishment. Executions are nothing more than vengeance. Honestly, I think that's why there are many people who really don't care if the evidence used to secure a conviction is even close to going beyond a reasonable doubt. The blood lust of the masses needs to be satisfied.

yes it is but some cases call for an execution while some call for life in prisonment. not all cases call for either. i think anyone could make the argument that the death pentaly is used waytoo often, but i don't believe in saying it never should be or could be used. in some cases death is absolutely just and justice. and if you believe in heavan and hell well some people just deserve to go directly to hell and this world is better off the sooner some of those go. that's just my opinion.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

pjhawks wrote:

yes it is but some cases call for an execution while some call for life in prisonment. not all cases call for either. i think anyone could make the argument that the death pentaly is used waytoo often, but i don't believe in saying it never should be or could be used. in some cases death is absolutely just and justice. and if you believe in heavan and hell well some people just deserve to go directly to hell and this world is better off the sooner some of those go. that's just my opinion.

if the christian god is all forgiving of all those that repent/believe, then this guy just got a fast track to heaven. way to "punish" him, America.

please explain to me how killing someone is more just than locking them up and throwing away the key? how is the world better off? none of us on the outside of those prison walls would know any different, would we?