Season Ticket Sales Office Miscommunication for PJ20 Weekend

Sawyer · May 2011

wow....in my rage this morning I sent an e mail to Michael Rapino (CEO of Livenation). He actually responded. I am pretty impressed and yes I stressed it was not the saleman's fault. Not looking for anyone to get in trouble. I'm kind of a big deal.

marcos · May 2011

Sawyer wrote:

wow....in my rage this morning I sent an e mail to Michael Rapino (CEO of Livenation). He actually responded. I am pretty impressed and yes I stressed it was not the saleman's fault. Not looking for anyone to get in trouble. I'm kind of a big deal.

yes, you definitely have a cause of action and you can pm if the CEO wasn't able to help you. You purchased the tickets based on 1. What the sales person said or failed to say and 2. Based on the history of where the VIP usually are and have been for similar events. Live nation had a duty to make you aware that the VIP section or seats were no a different location for this and any other event. You relied in good faith on their definition of VIP which based on their history of concerts was the sixth row, not something that simply changes from event to event, further they were season tickets right, and season tickets usually mean the same seat for each event throughout the season.

Sawyer · May 2011

marcos wrote:

Sawyer wrote:

wow....in my rage this morning I sent an e mail to Michael Rapino (CEO of Livenation). He actually responded. I am pretty impressed and yes I stressed it was not the saleman's fault. Not looking for anyone to get in trouble. I'm kind of a big deal.

yes, you definitely have a cause of action and you can pm if the CEO wasn't able to help you. You purchased the tickets based on 1. What the sales person said or failed to say and 2. Based on the history of where the VIP usually are and have been for similar events. Live nation had a duty to make you aware that the VIP section or seats were no a different location for this and any other event. You relied in good faith on their definition of VIP which based on their history of concerts was the sixth row, not something that simply changes from event to event, further they were season tickets right, and season tickets usually mean the same seat for each event throughout the season.

but wait.....no funds were allocated...just promises in writing

vant0037 · May 2011

I'm a lawyer but I'll spare you the legalese: what's your loss here? You thought you had something but didn't risk anything to get it, LiveNation screwed up, now you don't have something. End of story. Sounds like you've gotten 2 unexpected apologies (from LiveNation AND from 10c -- not sure why they apologized)...what are you looking for? You didn't rely on the promise from LiveNation, because tickets aren't on sale yet (so you haven't missed on other opportunities) and you didn't give them any money yet.

Sure it sucks, but a lawsuit? Come on man. I understand PJ20 will be historic (for PJ fans) and it was thrilling I'm sure to seemingly score great seats (before the rest of the fan club no less) and make sure the rest of us nervous fans knew about your great deal (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=157134&start=105), but you didn't lose any money, you didn't lose any opportunities to get tickets (there is still the 10c presale, the general TM sale, and other scalpers I'm sure). So your loss here? Well...nothing. It sucks and I'm sure you're disappointed, but disappointment without any money or detriment to you is not enough to sue anybody.

I don't mean any offense by this, but get over it. It sucks, you're disappointed, but it's starting to sound ridiculous and whiney with this lawsuit stuff. Move on. You'll get tickets tomorrow at a fraction of what you would've been paying to LiveNation and by 9/3 and 9/4, I promise you, you will have long forgotten about what might've been, how disappointed you were and any ridiculous waste of time threatened lawsuit.

So to you and everyone else tomorrow, good luck. I'm sure we'll all be very happy.

Get_Right · May 2011

marcos wrote:

Sawyer wrote:

wow....in my rage this morning I sent an e mail to Michael Rapino (CEO of Livenation). He actually responded. I am pretty impressed and yes I stressed it was not the saleman's fault. Not looking for anyone to get in trouble. I'm kind of a big deal.

yes, you definitely have a cause of action and you can pm if the CEO wasn't able to help you. You purchased the tickets based on 1. What the sales person said or failed to say and 2. Based on the history of where the VIP usually are and have been for similar events. Live nation had a duty to make you aware that the VIP section or seats were no a different location for this and any other event. You relied in good faith on their definition of VIP which based on their history of concerts was the sixth row, not something that simply changes from event to event, further they were season tickets right, and season tickets usually mean the same seat for each event throughout the season.

Nope. A reliance claim requires detriment on Sawyer's part. Since they informed him prior to the onsale, the only detriment is the disappointment that an agreement was not reached. But hey, things change when a suit is filed. You have money to burn and a point to prove, my guess is that the settlement would be favorable. But it will cost you if you want good legal representation. My initial retainer for such a case would be $5,000. My estimate of the cost to finalize such an action against a multinational corporation would be at least $25,000. No shit.

Sawyer · May 2011

Get_Right wrote:

marcos wrote:

Sawyer wrote:

wow....in my rage this morning I sent an e mail to Michael Rapino (CEO of Livenation). He actually responded. I am pretty impressed and yes I stressed it was not the saleman's fault. Not looking for anyone to get in trouble. I'm kind of a big deal.

yes, you definitely have a cause of action and you can pm if the CEO wasn't able to help you. You purchased the tickets based on 1. What the sales person said or failed to say and 2. Based on the history of where the VIP usually are and have been for similar events. Live nation had a duty to make you aware that the VIP section or seats were no a different location for this and any other event. You relied in good faith on their definition of VIP which based on their history of concerts was the sixth row, not something that simply changes from event to event, further they were season tickets right, and season tickets usually mean the same seat for each event throughout the season.

Nope. A reliance claim requires detriment on Sawyer's part. Since they informed him prior to the onsale, the only detriment is the disappointment that an agreement was not reached. But hey, things change when a suit is filed. You have money to burn and a point to prove, my guess is that the settlement would be favorable. But it will cost you if you want good legal representation. My initial retainer for such a case would be $5,000. My estimate of the cost to finalize such an action against a multinational corporation would be at least $25,000. No shit.

wow...i have all the e mails from the salesmen saying my tickets are 'secured'. does that mean anything?

on2legs · May 2011

Sawyer wrote:

wow...i have all the e mails from the salesmen saying my tickets are 'secured'. does that mean anything?

Yeah that's going to be a problem. It's gonna be a problem for them. This a clear violation of your rights as a consumer. It's an infringement on your constitutional rights. It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous.

Sawyer · May 2011

on2legs wrote:

Sawyer wrote:

wow...i have all the e mails from the salesmen saying my tickets are 'secured'. does that mean anything?

Yeah that's going to be a problem. It's gonna be a problem for them. This a clear violation of your rights as a consumer. It's an infringement on your constitutional rights. It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous.

Jackie!!!!!!

on2legs · May 2011

In all seriousness... you don't have a contract so I'd say you're out of luck.

Let me ask you this... if prior to you signing the contract Pearl Jam announced that Ed had laryngitis and the concert was now off would you you still pay $900 for the Jimmy Buffet tickets if LiveNation was demanding payment since that show was still on? Or would you tell LiveNation to go pound salt because you never signed the contract?

Sawyer · May 2011

last thing...lawyers please weigh in on this. Especially question 2. my questions to him copied directly from my e mail as of FRIDAY:

Hi

Thanks for the link...a couple questions:

1.If I were to purchase the Ultra Elite Package that would be $900 per seat for three shows. Is that correct?

2. Will Pearl Jam's Fan Club impact these seats being taken or are they already 'off the market'?

.....thanks in advance

his response........

Yes, for 3 shows if you choose Alpine only and it is per seat.
I only have 4 seats left.

I do not have any knowledge of what holds or seats the Fan Club is using. I know my season seat holds and that is the extent of it.

whoops............

tremors · May 2011

Sawyer wrote:

last thing...lawyers please weigh in on this. Especially question 2. my questions to him copied directly from my e mail as of FRIDAY:

Hi

Thanks for the link...a couple questions:

1.If I were to purchase the Ultra Elite Package that would be $900 per seat for three shows. Is that correct?

2. Will Pearl Jam's Fan Club impact these seats being taken or are they already 'off the market'?

.....thanks in advance

his response........

Yes, for 3 shows if you choose Alpine only and it is per seat.
I only have 4 seats left.

I do not have any knowledge of what holds or seats the Fan Club is using. I know my season seat holds and that is the extent of it.

whoops............

Do you think this guy is still going to get his commission?

Sawyer · May 2011

tremors wrote:

Sawyer wrote:

last thing...lawyers please weigh in on this. Especially question 2. my questions to him copied directly from my e mail as of FRIDAY:

Hi

Thanks for the link...a couple questions:

1.If I were to purchase the Ultra Elite Package that would be $900 per seat for three shows. Is that correct?

2. Will Pearl Jam's Fan Club impact these seats being taken or are they already 'off the market'?

.....thanks in advance

his response........

Yes, for 3 shows if you choose Alpine only and it is per seat.
I only have 4 seats left.

I do not have any knowledge of what holds or seats the Fan Club is using. I know my season seat holds and that is the extent of it.

whoops............

Do you think this guy is still going to get his commission?

i know this isn't Law & Order but that is damaging evidence to Livenation imo

Get_Right · May 2011

Sawyer wrote:

wow...i have all the e mails from the salesmen saying my tickets are 'secured'. does that mean anything?

Cant say without having all the facts. My guess is that there is a "subject to change clause" in the contract and that after you sign and funds are exchanged they still have authority to move your seats. LN knows what they are doing as far as ticket commitments go. Ask yourself this: Could they sue you now for nonpayment? My guess is no. That speaks volumes as to the validity of any such contract.

I will add that this my educated guess based on a thread in a message forum and not based upon knowledge of the specific details. Take the papers and your recollection of the phone conversations to a local attorney. You might get lucky and find someone willing to take this on just to make a name for him/her self. Ticket cases generate publicity that could outweigh the legal fees. Hope this helps.

Sawyer · May 2011

Get_Right wrote:

Sawyer wrote:

wow...i have all the e mails from the salesmen saying my tickets are 'secured'. does that mean anything?

Cant say without having all the facts. My guess is that there is a "subject to change clause" in the contract and that after you sign and funds are exchanged they still have authority to move your seats. LN knows what they are doing as far as ticket commitments go. Ask yourself this: Could they sue you now for nonpayment? My guess is no. That speaks volumes as to the validity of any such contract.

I will add that this my educated guess based on a thread in a message forum and not based upon knowledge of the specific details. Take the papers and your recollection of the phone conversations to a local attorney. You might get lucky and find someone willing to take this on just to make a name for him/her self. Ticket cases generate publicity that could outweigh the legal fees. Hope this helps.

did you see my direct e mail translations above from the sales rep?

Get_Right · May 2011

Sawyer wrote:

last thing...lawyers please weigh in on this. Especially question 2. my questions to him copied directly from my e mail as of FRIDAY:

2. Will Pearl Jam's Fan Club impact these seats being taken or are they already 'off the market'?

.....thanks in advance

his response........

Yes, for 3 shows if you choose Alpine only and it is per seat.
I only have 4 seats left.

I do not have any knowledge of what holds or seats the Fan Club is using. I know my season seat holds and that is the extent of it.

Therein lies the problem. This person was not aware of the 10c agreement with LN. Mistake of fact or misunderstanding is actually another way to void a contract. Not playing devils advocate, calling it as I would if I was a judge and following the strict letter of the law.

All of that being said,and from a strictly business perspective, I do think LN should provide you with some compensation for the screw up.

on2legs · May 2011

Get_Right wrote:

Ask yourself this: Could they sue you now for nonpayment? My guess is no. That speaks volumes as to the validity of any such contract.

Exactly. If Sawyer found out today that his wife was due to have a baby that weekend he'd be perfectly justified in backing out on buying the tickets and he'd be all over the fact that he never signed a contract if they came after him for the money.

Sawyer · May 2011

Get_Right wrote:

Sawyer wrote:

last thing...lawyers please weigh in on this. Especially question 2. my questions to him copied directly from my e mail as of FRIDAY:

2. Will Pearl Jam's Fan Club impact these seats being taken or are they already 'off the market'?

.....thanks in advance

his response........

Yes, for 3 shows if you choose Alpine only and it is per seat.
I only have 4 seats left.

I do not have any knowledge of what holds or seats the Fan Club is using. I know my season seat holds and that is the extent of it.

Therein lies the problem. This person was not aware of the 10c agreement with LN. Mistake of fact or misunderstanding is actually another way to void a contract. Not playing devils advocate, calling it as I would if I was a judge and following the strict letter of the law.

All of that being said,and from a strictly business perspective, I do think LN should provide you with some compensation for the screw up.

but isn't that the exact thing they need to have knowledge of?

Get_Right · May 2011

Sawyer wrote:

but isn't that the exact thing they need to have knowledge of?

Yes. But it is the promoter and the sales/venue manager's job to insure that its sales people know exactly what is for sale to VIPs. Given the fact that no other act has such specific seating requirements, it is not surprising (to me) that a salesman went with a standard VIP seating chart. Completely unprofessional? Yup.

neilybabes86 · May 2011

OH MAN THESE SEATS WOULD HAVE BEEN DOUBLE BOOKED

ten club should be praising you ....for catching their confusion with live nation

Sawyer · May 2011

Get_Right wrote:

Sawyer wrote:

but isn't that the exact thing they need to have knowledge of?

Yes. But it is the promoter and the sales/venue manager's job to insure that its sales people know exactly what is for sale to VIPs. Given the fact that no other act has such specific seating requirements, it is not surprising (to me) that a salesman went with a standard VIP seating chart. Completely unprofessional? Yup.

still the same company and I think some reimbursement then no?

Season Ticket Sales Office Miscommunication for PJ20 Weekend

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