canadian government held in contemp

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  • Posts: 9,087
    Conservatives hold steady against Liberals

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/conservatives- ... 0-077.html

    For those who do not want a Conservative majority, this poll should make you nervous. This is the same polling company that had Rob Ford and Smitherman neck and neck just before the Toronto vote and correct me if I'm wrong, but Rob Ford won rather easily???
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Student says environmental activism barred her from Harper campaign event

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/student-says-e ... 6-006.html

    I do not understand why the Conservatives have not replaced this guy...I imagine another minority he's gone as well as Iggy, Layton and Duceppe.

    replaced who?

    this is a harper mandate ... everything is ... his inner circle has micro-managed everything ..
  • Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    show previous quotes

    replaced who?

    this is a harper mandate ... everything is ... his inner circle has micro-managed everything ..

    Harper of course, the party can replace their leader...just ask Dion!!!
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Harper of course, the party can replace their leader...just ask Dion!!!

    he IS the party ... and why would they replace him? ... i think he's maximized penetration amongst canadians ... he's convinced people that would not benefit from his policies to vote for him ... using a pretty good strategy ...

    he is in majority territory right now because his group has managed the PR side of things brilliantly and because he forgoes many aspects of democracy ...
  • Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    show previous quotes

    he IS the party ... and why would they replace him? ... i think he's maximized penetration amongst canadians ... he's convinced people that would not benefit from his policies to vote for him ... using a pretty good strategy ...

    he is in majority territory right now because his group has managed the PR side of things brilliantly and because he forgoes many aspects of democracy ...

    Why would they replace him...let me see...he's failed to win a majority against some extremely weak opposition.
    Dion, Iggy, Layton were/are pretty weak opponents.

    But then what do I know.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Why would they replace him...let me see...he's failed to win a majority against some extremely weak opposition.
    Dion, Iggy, Layton were/are pretty weak opponents.

    he's increased his seats despite being ideologically different than most of the country ... hence my point on maximum penetration ...

    having said that - he's also benefited from vote splitting of the centre/left and the emergence of the NDP ... you may think Layton is weak but the guy has increased his seats in each election ... no small feat i would say and i think it's a testament to his leadership ...

    harper has also benefited from a decimated and divided liberal party ... and he's done well in his negative campaigning of the liberals ... most of his growth is from liberal voters who will not move left ... plus the liberals are getting hammered in quebec where they usually excel ...
  • Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    show previous quotes

    he's increased his seats despite being ideologically different than most of the country ... hence my point on maximum penetration ...

    having said that - he's also benefited from vote splitting of the centre/left and the emergence of the NDP ... you may think Layton is weak but the guy has increased his seats in each election ... no small feat i would say and i think it's a testament to his leadership ...

    harper has also benefited from a decimated and divided liberal party ... and he's done well in his negative campaigning of the liberals ... most of his growth is from liberal voters who will not move left ... plus the liberals are getting hammered in quebec where they usually excel ...

    I suppose that it's never occurred to you that Canada's changed and Canadians have changed! Maybe Canadians are tired of being taxed to the grave to pay for all the lefts lovely ideas, ie gun registry 1 billion plus, the national daycare that people on the left want and many more lovely ideas. Did Toronto not overwhelmingly vote in a conservative mayor? Why did they vote him in? Were people in Toronto tired of having to pay twice as much to renew their plate, twice the land transfer tax...those were 2 pretty big promises that seems to resonate with the voters of Toronto.

    I live just outside of Windsor, 7 years ago Windsor elected mayor Francis who is definitely a financial conservative. I never thought I'd see the day in Windsor that they would elect a mayor likes this. Windsor was 1 of the most hard core union towns in Canada, thats not the case any more...2 years ago he took on CUPE and let them sit out on strike for most of the summer until he got what he wanted, and the people supported him with a 3rd mandate. What did CUPE get...city run day cares were closed, why? because people found out that they got better services from private day care, garbage collection contracted out, the city got a better deal. You know what CUPE was fighting for...the right to keep benefits for life for new hires...they went on strike for people that weren't hired yet...they still keep their benefits for life, new hires don't get them for life. These workers lost 3 months pay because their left wing union brain washed them, and in the end they lost so much.

    Their was a time in Windsor that would never have happened, if Windsor can change this much, that fast then it's not so unbelievable that other parts of Canada can change.

    Oh by the way, I'll take Windsor"s model anyday now, back to back 0% tax, many capital projects are paid in Cash...under his leadership they built a new arena for the junior hockey team under budget @65 million paid in off within a year.

    And if a guy like mayor francis could run directly for prime minister with out all the party bullshit, he have my vote in a heart beat.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Posts: 13,559
    canada has definitely changed ... that is no doubt ... we aren't the socialist nation we used to be that's for sure ...

    but having said that - the pulse of the country is still most definitely firmly in the centre ...

    yes ... toronto voted in a right wing mayor in the same vein as people vote for harper ... but you need to factor in voter apathy; splitting of all the other votes; and a general unwillingness by the left to play the same games the right are prepared to do ... the right have briliiantly worked social media and the internet in general ...

    if you read thestar's website ... all the comments skew right ... in many instances - they appear to be the same regurgitated pieces of info which are all likely from the same playbook ... it's effective no doubt ...

    and i'm not a huge supporter of unions ... in many instances - they are borderline mafia rackets as far as i'm concerned ... i'm not sure why they are directly related to the left ...

    i've heard good things about your mayor ... but mayor miller also ran toronto without defecits despite not having a fair share of tax revenue ... it's all about perception ...

    so, what it all boils down to is this ... do you want to live in a place that has a social infrastructure to prevent what is happening south of the border or do you want to transorm into the me-first society we see there? ... sure, you can praise zero % tax increases and the like but they all have consequences ...
  • Posts: 136
    polaris_x wrote:
    and i'm not a huge supporter of unions ... in many instances - they are borderline mafia rackets as far as i'm concerned ... i'm not sure why they are directly related to the left ...

    Love the mafia bit but borderline? Certainly the public sector ones crossed that line eons ago. I'm in a minor one that is a true impediment to progress...

    I suspect you all saw this:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-woos-gta-immigrants-with-foreign-credential-plan/article1972715/

    Any thoughts? Seems like a great idea to me, with frankly minor costs (~$6 million per year) that presumably are recovered later (hell even if it was a grant but got guys out of taxis and into lab coats I think I'd like it because the costs would be recovered via income and probably sales taxes). I've long thought it bizarre that we attract a quarter-million-odd souls to our shores annually, but prevent many of them from contributing to the maximum extent possible.
  • Posts: 13,559
    bytterman wrote:
    Love the mafia bit but borderline? Certainly the public sector ones crossed that line eons ago. I'm in a minor one that is a true impediment to progress...

    I suspect you all saw this:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-woos-gta-immigrants-with-foreign-credential-plan/article1972715/

    Any thoughts? Seems like a great idea to me, with frankly minor costs (~$6 million per year) that presumably are recovered later (hell even if it was a grant but got guys out of taxis and into lab coats I think I'd like it because the costs would be recovered via income and probably sales taxes). I've long thought it bizarre that we attract a quarter-million-odd souls to our shores annually, but prevent many of them from contributing to the maximum extent possible.

    yeah ... i like the idea ... although it depends on how they define "loans" ... having said that - is it really the lack of recognition or is it that companies are unwilling to hire because of language issues?
  • Posts: 136
    polaris_x wrote:
    show previous quotes

    yeah ... i like the idea ... although it depends on how they define "loans" ... having said that - is it really the lack of recognition or is it that companies are unwilling to hire because of language issues?

    There are definite problems with credentials being recognized, but it might be most common in health fields (incl. vet med, that one I know). In some ways it's not actually a government problem, but one of the professional societies and schools, as I understand this. In the larger cities (TO, Van, and Mont for sure) there would be less of a language issue, I'd have thought (hoped?). Smaller places and specifically out here though, have to think it's a problem.
  • Posts: 1,952
    bytterman wrote:
    show previous quotes

    There are definite problems with credentials being recognized, but it might be most common in health fields (incl. vet med, that one I know). In some ways it's not actually a government problem, but one of the professional societies and schools, as I understand this. In the larger cities (TO, Van, and Mont for sure) there would be less of a language issue, I'd have thought (hoped?). Smaller places and specifically out here though, have to think it's a problem.


    I think the language issue is a pretty big one, even in big cities. I mean from my own profession, if you want to get your professional engineers licence in Ontario you have to take a law and ethics test. The PEO code of ethics is written in english, and the test is in english. If you can't understand english legal terms or the code of ethics you are going to struggle. In Quebec the test are all of course written in french.
  • Posts: 13,559
    bytterman wrote:
    There are definite problems with credentials being recognized, but it might be most common in health fields (incl. vet med, that one I know). In some ways it's not actually a government problem, but one of the professional societies and schools, as I understand this. In the larger cities (TO, Van, and Mont for sure) there would be less of a language issue, I'd have thought (hoped?). Smaller places and specifically out here though, have to think it's a problem.

    not sure ... i think language/communication definitely has been a factor ... especially with terminology but i suspect that degree recognition is a large part of it ...
  • Posts: 9,087
    bytterman wrote:
    show previous quotes

    Love the mafia bit but borderline? Certainly the public sector ones crossed that line eons ago. I'm in a minor one that is a true impediment to progress...

    I suspect you all saw this:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-woos-gta-immigrants-with-foreign-credential-plan/article1972715/

    Any thoughts? Seems like a great idea to me, with frankly minor costs (~$6 million per year) that presumably are recovered later (hell even if it was a grant but got guys out of taxis and into lab coats I think I'd like it because the costs would be recovered via income and probably sales taxes). I've long thought it bizarre that we attract a quarter-million-odd souls to our shores annually, but prevent many of them from contributing to the maximum extent possible.

    No problems with it, if there are qualified people to fill much needed jobs lets get them Canadian qualifications.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    canada has definitely changed ... that is no doubt ... we aren't the socialist nation we used to be that's for sure ...

    but having said that - the pulse of the country is still most definitely firmly in the centre ...

    yes ... toronto voted in a right wing mayor in the same vein as people vote for harper ... but you need to factor in voter apathy; splitting of all the other votes; and a general unwillingness by the left to play the same games the right are prepared to do ... the right have briliiantly worked social media and the internet in general ...

    if you read thestar's website ... all the comments skew right ... in many instances - they appear to be the same regurgitated pieces of info which are all likely from the same playbook ... it's effective no doubt ...

    and i'm not a huge supporter of unions ... in many instances - they are borderline mafia rackets as far as i'm concerned ... i'm not sure why they are directly related to the left ...

    i've heard good things about your mayor ... but mayor miller also ran toronto without defecits despite not having a fair share of tax revenue ... it's all about perception ...

    so, what it all boils down to is this ... do you want to live in a place that has a social infrastructure to prevent what is happening south of the border or do you want to transorm into the me-first society we see there? ... sure, you can praise zero % tax increases and the like but they all have consequences ...

    Unions are very much like the mafia, that was a great analogy. I am in a union and have no use for them, the stories I could tell would just boggle the mind. I've always said union leech off the productivity of others.

    I agree that we need a good social infrastructure, probably where we disagree is how do we get there and whats included, and fairly. I'm not opposed to daycare for people who need it, I'm opposed to daycare for people who can afford to pay and I'm just using daycare as an example.

    I m just using Windsor as example of the kind of country we can be if we just eliminated the deficit and set a plan to eliminate national debt.

    The most recent data I could find was for 2007/2008 and it said we spend 33.3 billion a year to service our national debt. Just think what we could do with that extra 33 billion.

    Thats what frustrates me. No government wants to develop a plan to eliminate the debt, put it in law and only allow it to be changed by referendum.

    To me that would be a real legacy for the prime minister that implement a plan.

    The real debate is how do we accomplish the stuff we want...unfortunately none of the federal leaders in place now will get us there.

    Yes I read the star. I try to keep informed from different sources.

    I just believe the country is changing, if Windsor can vote in a fiscally conservative mayor, that might be a big sign things have changed.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Posts: 1,952
    bytterman wrote:
    show previous quotes

    Love the mafia bit but borderline? Certainly the public sector ones crossed that line eons ago. I'm in a minor one that is a true impediment to progress...

    I suspect you all saw this:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-woos-gta-immigrants-with-foreign-credential-plan/article1972715/

    Any thoughts? Seems like a great idea to me, with frankly minor costs (~$6 million per year) that presumably are recovered later (hell even if it was a grant but got guys out of taxis and into lab coats I think I'd like it because the costs would be recovered via income and probably sales taxes). I've long thought it bizarre that we attract a quarter-million-odd souls to our shores annually, but prevent many of them from contributing to the maximum extent possible.


    I heard more about this on one of the tvs at the gym yesterday and it sounds pretty good to me. When I graduated from university registering to start my process to get my engineer's licence was freaking expensive. Looking at the fees today it is 339 bucks for the initial fees, 85 bucks per year for four years to maintain an engineer in training status, 165 bucks to take the professional practice test and 282 to do the final registration. For people from universities outside of canada that aren't accredited there is a minimum extra $580 to take a technical exam to prove you skills (plus 165 for additional exams). So someone from a foriegn university could easily spend two grand just to meet the licensing requirements. The fees I had to pay were painful, I can only imagine how painful they would be if you just spent your whole life savings to move to Canada and now you have to shell out thousands more get a licence. So a loan to cover those costs (and possibly cover technical english classes) would be super helpful. Plus the fact that it is a loan and not just free money would sort of filter out the people who really want to go after that sort of thing from the people who just don't care.
  • Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I just believe the country is changing, if Windsor can vote in a fiscally conservative mayor, that might be a big sign things have changed.

    i read a little more on your mayor after you mentioned him ... apparently, he is the highest paid mayor in ontario or was it the country and that he's managed to eliminate the need for tax increases by gutting social services ... now, this is all heresay and i don't know anyone who lives in windsor personally ... just read it ...

    but this is my point ... on paper - it sounds great to bring in a guy who's gonna lower taxes and eliminate the debt ... but there is a cost to everything ... i'll use toronto as an example ... yes, we just elected this dufus for a mayor and guess what ... he's appointed his friends to top paying jobs, he's entered into agreements that is gonna cost the city millions of dollars and what that means is he's gonna have to cut spending ... spending to say parks and rec ... so, after school programs are shut down ... and what happens when those programs get shut down with youth? ... everything has consequences ...

    the right wing side of the political spectrum does not believe in the social infrastructure and is focused on the me-first approach ... look at what's going on in the states ... harris left us with a defecit while governing in economically strong times, harper has us in a defecit ... look at bush down south ... these guys use the premise of lower taxes and all that jazz but all they end up doing is slashing spending on vital programs and STILL run defecits ...
  • Posts: 136
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    show previous quotes

    I think the language issue is a pretty big one, even in big cities. I mean from my own profession, if you want to get your professional engineers licence in Ontario you have to take a law and ethics test. The PEO code of ethics is written in english, and the test is in english. If you can't understand english legal terms or the code of ethics you are going to struggle. In Quebec the test are all of course written in french.

    I took the language comment as a discrimination thing, not a technical matter. You're entirely correct of course, having English or French is vital in any profession. I assume that we recognize engineering degrees from other countries (perhaps not all but some), and that if they go through the accreditation process they can then work here as professionals? My point was that it isn't necessarily the case with other degrees; many are simply not recognized and so the person would have to start more/less from scratch.
  • Posts: 136
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    I heard more about this on one of the tvs at the gym yesterday and it sounds pretty good to me. When I graduated from university registering to start my process to get my engineer's licence was freaking expensive. Looking at the fees today it is 339 bucks for the initial fees, 85 bucks per year for four years to maintain an engineer in training status, 165 bucks to take the professional practice test and 282 to do the final registration. For people from universities outside of canada that aren't accredited there is a minimum extra $580 to take a technical exam to prove you skills (plus 165 for additional exams). So someone from a foriegn university could easily spend two grand just to meet the licensing requirements. The fees I had to pay were painful, I can only imagine how painful they would be if you just spent your whole life savings to move to Canada and now you have to shell out thousands more get a licence. So a loan to cover those costs (and possibly cover technical english classes) would be super helpful. Plus the fact that it is a loan and not just free money would sort of filter out the people who really want to go after that sort of thing from the people who just don't care.

    That's steep, thanks for the detailed info I had no idea.
  • Posts: 1,952
    bytterman wrote:
    show previous quotes

    I took the language comment as a discrimination thing, not a technical matter. You're entirely correct of course, having English or French is vital in any profession. I assume that we recognize engineering degrees from other countries (perhaps not all but some), and that if they go through the accreditation process they can then work here as professionals? My point was that it isn't necessarily the case with other degrees; many are simply not recognized and so the person would have to start more/less from scratch.

    I don't think they are automatically recognized. Canadian schools are acredited by the Canadian Council of Professional Engineers. I remember my school had to go through the reacredition process and it was pretty indepth. They actually send people out go through the course requirements for all the classes, and some students even have to submit their notes for review. It looks like for foriegn schools it is on a case by case basis and you have to submit detailed records of the program you took including transcripts and a syllabus for review (translated into english if required). Once those have been reviewed you may or may not have to take technical tests as required.

    http://www.peo.on.ca/registration/Immig.html

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