bombing libya.. impeachable offense?

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  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    unsung wrote:
    tinkerbell wrote:
    markin ball wrote:
    Yes it is.

    Shall we all sit idle and watch another dictator slaughter his people? I think not. Bombing Libya is not the right way to term what is happening, Libya bombing it own people would be closer.

    I didn't read all of the replies but Biden sure was after Bush trying for impeachment.

    We are not the world police. If people are so worried about Libya people dying why aren't we doing something about Darfur and situations like that? It is that we have nothing to gain or what?

    The US needs to mind its' own business and pull all troops from around the world and bring them home. And before someone screams isolationist to me it is more like non-interventionist. Big difference.

    I also think your avatar becomes more relevant every day. Sadly Unsung, I used to argue with you profusely in favour of Obama on these boards. Clearly I was mistaken.

    The fact that Obama has done nothing about Guantanamo and continues to spread military intervention throughout the middle east is sickening. Yet the far right still thinks he's a Muslim?! :roll:

    And to all those saying that we are there helping the civilians against Gaddafi. I say that's not how I want my tax dollars spent. Our education, infrastructure, and health care are falling apart. Yet we spend billions and billions throughout the middle east?? Americans went through a tremendous civil war to get where we are today. Maybe the libyans need to do the same...without intervention. Let's get all the troops home. Get our shit together in our own countries.

    Leading by example at home is the best way to spread democracy. Not by military force.
  • sparky_fry
    sparky_fry Posts: 760
    speak for yourself, i'm glad Canada is participating. I agree with what the U.N is doing.[/quote]

    I am speaking for myself, i'm glad your proud that we're taking part in a war we have no business being involved in. Out of curiosity have you joined the armed forces and volunteered to go? Because those who support war should be the first people into battle.[/quote]

    ok, lets get things straight here. Enforcing a no-fly zone is not the same as land battle. We will not lose troops enforcing a no fly zone. I would love to go in a fighter jet and destroy military bases of a government whos goal is to kill its own people who protest. I do not support any ground troops entering Libya however. I know many people who are in the military who support this mission. Also Nato will take over control of this mission within a few days as an agreement has been reached with turkey.
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,825
    brandon10 wrote:
    I also think your avatar becomes more relevant every day. Sadly Unsung, I used to argue with you profusely in favour of Obama on these boards. Clearly I was mistaken.

    The fact that Obama has done nothing about Guantanamo and continues to spread military intervention throughout the middle east is sickening. Yet the far right still thinks he's a Muslim?! :roll:

    And to all those saying that we are there helping the civilians against Gaddafi. I say that's not how I want my tax dollars spent. Our education, infrastructure, and health care are falling apart. Yet we spend billions and billions throughout the middle east?? Americans went through a tremendous civil war to get where we are today. Maybe the libyans need to do the same...without intervention. Let's get all the troops home. Get our shit together in our own countries.

    Leading by example at home is the best way to spread democracy. Not by military force.

    Hey, Obama talks a good game. He says a lot of things that sound believable and left people pretty hopeful. He said them with conviction, and he may have even meant a lot of it-- getting elected seems to be the game changer, or is that the game EXACTLY? To say whatever the people hear when until you get in, and then continue serving your masters like the last guy? Either way, while shit like this is going down he's still damn good at downplaying the tragic aspect of it when he speaks.

    Disgruntled liberals need to do SOMETHING about 2012. Form a coalition and make the green party or libertarian party viable, or bite the bullet, register republican, and quit calling Ron Paul unelectable. The only reason he's unelectable is simply because a few talking heads have drilled it into people's heads. His base is growing, and is larger than most people think.

    By the way, your last line in your post is awesome.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    tinkerbell wrote:
    markin ball wrote:
    Yes it is.

    Shall we all sit idle and watch another dictator slaughter his people? I think not. Bombing Libya is not the right way to term what is happening, Libya bombing it own people would be closer.


    you mean exactly like we're doing as troops from saudi arabia kill peaceful protesters in Bahrain??? or as the idf shells gaza recently???
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

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    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • whygohome
    whygohome Posts: 2,305
    Simply put it is legal. It was under a UN Resolution. You don't have to like it, but it is legal.
    We hate the rising costs of movie tickets, but we still go; we hate that professional athletes are spoiled cry-babies, but we still watch and attend games; we hate our government, but we do nothing about it; we hate how overweight we are (33% obesity rate...and counting), but we don't stop sitting in the drive-thru; we support those who want to fight terrorism, but we continue to empty our wallets at the pumps; and on and on and on and on and on...................
  • DPrival78
    DPrival78 CT Posts: 2,263
    whygohome wrote:
    Simply put it is legal. It was under a UN Resolution.

    UN resolutions don't supercede the US constitution.
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  • Black73
    Black73 Posts: 1,018
    Black73 wrote:
    I can't believe I'm defending Obama...but in this cat's case, it has NOTHING to do with oil. You'd be correct in that assumption if we were still under the "protection" of our last Liar in Chief. I remember ultra-conservatives saying that if Obama were to be elected, he'd remove the troops from Afghanistan/Saudi Arabia before the mission was completed. Now he acts on a terrorist threat, and those same conservatives say he acted too slowly? And, you say he should be impeached for his actions? Out of curiousity, how'd you vote in 2004? You didn't happen to knowingly re-elect a public liar, did you?
    DPrival78 wrote:
    i'm not a conserative, if that's what you're getting at. and it doesn't matter who you, i, or anyone voted for. whoever gets to play the role of the POTUS is working for interests other than ours. but that's another discussion.

    Not getting at that at all - sorry it came across that way. Generally speaking, the conservative politicians criticise whatever Obama does. I was, however, curious if you voted to re-elect W, as that would've been a dangerous decision.
    DPrival78 wrote:
    ...if we're doing it to help people, why aren't we bombing half of africa?
    Black73 wrote:
    You realize that Libya's in Africa, right?
    DPrival78 wrote:
    sure do.. what's your point?

    tunisia's also in africa. why aren't we bombing them? or any of the other brutal dictatorships all over that continent?
    Fair point - just wasn't following your "let's bomb half of Africa" rationale when, Obama approves bombing a country in Africa and you call for his impeachment.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,283
    markin ball wrote:
    Tinkerbell,

    The question of the original post was basically "is this legal?". Whether or not it was the "right" thing to do ain't the point, which is a whole other topic. The president does not have the power under the constitution to authorize an unprovoked attack on a foreign country no matter if it is morally good or bad. We have rules and the whole idea of this country is that no one is above the rules.
    IF the Pres had done this completely on his own, then sure , I'd say it was illegal. Having said that , wouldn't you say that being a major member nation of The U.N. AND NATO kinda makes the above a moot point?
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  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    The reasons why I don't agree with being in Libya,

    -our economical situation

    -our existence in 2 on going military activities in the Middle East

    -Hillary did a piss poor job in assessing the situation in Libya France, Spain and Italy needs Libya, we don't and they should have been the ones taking the lead and demanding that the Arab League and the Saudis be at there side.

    -I believe countries should handle their own internal civil discords, unless, it threatens the world. Our Civil War was brother against brother and it was bloody by all accounts – yet our country survived and grew. Here the so-called Arab League is content to sit back and let the US and West do all the dirty work.

    Democracy is not automatic and it is not without ongoing struggles. Its a constant fight, just look at the shit that is going on at the State level.

    Hell, the biggest threat to the American political system and the American people came at the hands of the United States Supreme Court who forgot the main function of the Constitution – We The People. Instead, they gave the right of the people to 'form a more perfect union' to the mufti-international corporations.

    With all that said, the President had the authority to make the call to participate in Libya as laid out by the UN resolution, just like Presidents before him. It's not an impeachable action.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • CH156378
    CH156378 Posts: 1,539
    "This command-and-control business is complicated, and we haven't done something like this of on-the-fly before." Robert Gates

    I thought this was is an odd quote from this week.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Everything is an impeachable offense nowadays simply because our polar 2-party system which is enforced by media and narrow minded citizens. Anyone who blindly follows a party or person nowadays is idiotic. Generalizing about "the other side" is no different than participating in politics like you would sports. Pretty Sad for the state of the American politics and future.

    As for Libya, we're damned if we do nothing and damned if we do something. We can look at problems in the past like Rwanda and shake our heads at inaction or we can look at Yugoslavia for action. Don't know if there's a "right answer" per say, but better to side on action against an obvious wrong-doing regardless of the feedback of others. The problem is we really lose our creditability with engagements through our history or of recent in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iraq which just gives us a black eye and negative connotation no matter if our intentions or actions are good, bad or indifferent.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    CH156378 wrote:
    "This command-and-control business is complicated, and we haven't done something like this of on-the-fly before." Robert Gates

    I thought this was is an odd quote from this week.


    Hillary Clinton in an interview from Cairo, Egypt stated she will not stay on as Secretary of State in Obama wins a 2nd term.

    Gates has already announced his intention to step down as Secretary of Defense at the end of 2011.

    So its not surprising, not to see Hillary out there defending America's actions in Libya; nor is it surprising that Gates seems to be fumbling around with his decisions. These are the two main people that the President relied upon in making his decisions on sanctions and military actions against Libya and now they both seem to be wiping off their knife.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    VoidOfMan wrote:
    What Obama said in 2007:

    “The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.”


    senator Obama sounds a little different than president Obama :?
    IMHO he's in way over his head. I guess this is what we get when people elect a community organizer.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    prfctlefts wrote:

    senator Obama sounds a little different than president Obama :?
    IMHO he's in way over his head. I guess this is what we get when people elect a community organizer.


    What have the Republicans/Tea Party constructively accomplished. They do a lot of talking, but where's the concrete results of their actions that have benefited the American public?
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    last time an american president decided to bomb libya he wasnt impeached... So why would anyone think this time itd happen... I mean if it were appropriate... Which it isnt.
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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,990
    puremagic wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:

    senator Obama sounds a little different than president Obama :?
    IMHO he's in way over his head. I guess this is what we get when people elect a community organizer.


    What have the Republicans/Tea Party constructively accomplished. They do a lot of talking, but where's the concrete results of their actions that have benefited the American public?
    lower taxes for corporations and for the rich, budget cuts for entitlement programs, gutting the middle class, putting business ahead of everything else, flip flopping and secondguessing on every topic just to oppose obama and the dems, and opposing healthinsurance reform...yep, i'd say they have gotten a lot done to benefit the american public...


    :roll:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,724
    why UN or USA free Cyprus??its the ONLY European country has wall in the middle of her capital,Nikosia..
    since 1974....Turkish army took with force the half island....oh wait....Cyprus has Bananas and orange not
    OIL......


    CYPRUS-IS-GREEK-amp-MUST-BE-FREE-+3511_s.jpg



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  • whygohome
    whygohome Posts: 2,305
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    puremagic wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:

    senator Obama sounds a little different than president Obama :?
    IMHO he's in way over his head. I guess this is what we get when people elect a community organizer.


    What have the Republicans/Tea Party constructively accomplished. They do a lot of talking, but where's the concrete results of their actions that have benefited the American public?

    lower taxes for corporations and for the rich, budget cuts for entitlement programs, gutting the middle class, putting business ahead of everything else, flip flopping and secondguessing on every topic just to oppose obama and the dems, and opposing healthinsurance reform...yep, i'd say they have gotten a lot done to benefit the american public...


    :roll:

    Here we go....the community organizer angle. I would love anyone who criticizes the president to stand toe to toe with him to test their own knowledge. it would be a laughable affair. I am so sick and tired of these kindergarten conversations: "he sucks, he has a 'D' next to his name! No he sucks, he has an 'R' next to his name! Democrats are great, Republicans are evil! Republicans are patriots, Democrats hate America!"
    The President is in way over his head, because he inherited a failing economy and two wars. Who wouldn't be in over his head? Was Nixon in over his head? Yes. Does it matter what party a president belongs to to admit he inherited a terrible situation. And, the people of this country aren't helping AT ALL. it is our country and we have stood by and watched it go to shit. Has our government made some terrible decisions? Yes. But, we are at the heart of these decisions. If we weren't such a greedy, selfish, gluttonous, materialistic society, we would have far less problems. If we weren't so addicted to oil, to the point that it negatively affected our foreign policy, we would be better off. Some say that our addiction to oil caused 9/11 (as it did cause our Middle East policies). I think that it is an extreme statement, but how far off is it? Why is our economy struggling? Because a handful (relatively speaking) of evil, greedy suits decided to play with the economy as if they were at the craps table. Why is China's economy booming? How about because nothing is made in the good ol' USA anymore. How about because we flock like the idiotic, docile sheep we are to the New American Church--Wal-Mart--where 70% of the crap is made in China. Buy American. Nike, the great American company--everything made overseas. The list goes on and on. But we don't care! Let's go to the mall and buy a bunch of clothes! Yay, there's a sale!! Do we look at the tags? NO. We don't care that these "necessities" are made in Thailand by a 10 year old girl in a sweatshop! Yay! Nothing makes me more sick that seeing girls show off their shoes or new purses. Check the tags! Thank god my girlfriend has a brain and hates shopping.
    It is OUR FAULT. WAKE UP. I wish it were so easy that we could just blame a "community organizer." It's not, but it is easier than blaming ourselves. it is always easier to blame someone else but ourselves. We live in a egocentric universe and it is killing us.

    The idiotic, childish level of discourse in this country is ridiculous. Rant aside (sorry, but the community organizer thing is simply a display of an inability to construct an intelligent criticism). I am in no way defending Obama; I have no allegiance to a politician or to a political party. I am defending intelligence. I am defending an intelligent discourse amongst the people, and sadly, I do not feel it exists anymore.

    That aside, it is difficult to disagree with what puremagic and gimmesome have said. Pure objectivity is nearly impossible, but it is a valiant attempt at sanity.
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    " wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:



    lower taxes for corporations and for the rich, budget cuts for entitlement programs, gutting the middle class, putting business ahead of everything else, flip flopping and secondguessing on every topic just to oppose obama and the dems, and opposing healthinsurance reform...yep, i'd say they have gotten a lot done to benefit the american public...


    what lower taxes are you talking about ? I guess in your Progressive View they should pay more ?

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/27116.html

    Washington, DC, March 11, 2011-The U.S. corporate tax rate will soon become the highest in the industrialized world, and is already in its 20th year of being above the average for similar economies, according to a new analysis by the Tax Foundation. As other nations enact reforms and rate cuts, the U.S. corporate rate will continue to stand out as a hindrance to economic growth and competitiveness unless lawmakers move to lower the tax burden for businesses.

    The combined federal and state rate of 39.2 percent of corporate profits is exceeded only by Japan, whose rate stands at 39.5 percent. When Japan enacts planned cuts next month, however, the United States will have the highest rate of all of the economies in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the group of 34 advanced countries with economies most comparable to the U.S.



    As far as entitlments go. They also are bankrupting our country they have become unsustainable. Look it up


    as far as your beloved obama care goes it's also already1.
    1. been ruled unconstituional

    2. Obama lied about it not increasing the deficit ,being able to keep your doctor and premiums not going up.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 16036.html
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri= ... xxxGUeZtno

    @whygohome
    Dude Obama is a joke. I cant believe anybody with half a damn brain continues to take this guy seriously. Also I know of pleanty of people that would wipe the floor with Obama in a debate. Here he is studdering like baffoon. Take away that TelePrompTer and heres what you get

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