Pearl Jam Hypocrisy

adamdude · March 2011

aus_suz wrote:

adamdude wrote:

aus_suz wrote:

I know where u live.... j/k's

I do tho

haha. that you do.

So u doing any EV solo shows??

Yeah I'm going to the second Melbourne show, you?

aus_suz · March 2011

adamdude wrote:

quote="adamdude"]

Yeah I'm going to the second Melbourne show, you?

Yeah same.....u have 10c tickets?

adamdude · March 2011

aus_suz wrote:

adamdude wrote:

quote="adamdude"]
Yeah I'm going to the second Melbourne show, you?

Yeah same.....u have 10c tickets?

Nah they sold out too fast, got the public sale. Row W i think

aus_suz · March 2011

adamdude wrote:

aus_suz wrote:

adamdude wrote:

quote="adamdude"]
Yeah I'm going to the second Melbourne show, you?

Yeah same.....u have 10c tickets?

Nah they sold out too fast, got the public sale. Row W i think

As long as u are in the building it will all be good...
Ive got 10c tickets.. dunno what they will be like...
They are all over the place..
although a guy that had front row thursday night got front row again tonight... lucky bugger..

Pry To · March 2011

I hope the mods leave this up and it continues to garner a genuine discussion, one that really deserves to be heard.

Try not to make fun of me, but I used to be a huge Counting Crows fan. I swear, at one point they were a really good band. Most everyone I know hates them, so I spent a lot of time and energy defending them to my friends, trying to show them why they were a really good band.

Then they did a Diet Coke commercial. It was indefensible, disgusting, a complete sell out. Not long after, the band kind of went to shit, put out a terrible album and played shows filled with nothing but their hits. I'm telling you, this was a 180 from what they once were. They cared about their music and cared about their fans. For whatever reason, that Diet Coke commercial seemed to change everything. I mention it here because of the quote from Ed condemning them for the commercial. He was right. They deserved it. Fuck them, indeed.

The Target commercial is every bit as appalling and indefensible to me. That our beloved PJ can view what they do with this level of cynicism, for money that they don't truly need, just floors me. That commercial was a dark day in the band's history, one that I will not "soon forget."

Add to this the FACT that Target donates truckloads of money -- money that came from Pearl Jam and its fans -- to support right-wing Republicans and anti-gay legislation. For me, that's a dealbreaker.

http://gothamist.com/2010/08/04/target_in_crosshairs_for_supporting.php

Is this really what Pearl Jam is all about? Have they really become that cynical? Do they not believe in miracles anymore? I honestly and truly thought these guys were better than this, that they wouldn't sell their souls for a buck. I'm am deeply saddened to say that I was 100% wrong.

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. I hope the discussion will be allowed to continue.

redrock · March 2011

PJ had a distribution (?) deal with Target. The ad promotes their product. That's what a band does - they need to sell their goods, attract new 'customers', etc. to be able to continue.

On the other hand, John Lydon 'selling' butter or Iggy Pop 'selling' insurance..... hmmmmm.

Selling your product is not the same.

JK109224 · March 2011

I don't think they consciously sit down and go "let's write songs that will make us more money".

But let's not pretend their actions haven't changed in the last 5 years in particular.

I'm not suggesting they're "greedy" or losing their integrity. They're the most genuine band I've ever followed.

Like I said in my first post - I don't really care these days whether they've signed a deal with a big company or not. I enjoy them as a band, I know they do a lot of good, so I'll keep following them.

My obsessive honeymoon PJ phase is over, but I'll still go to their shows and buy their records and follow what they do.

Eilian · March 2011

Pearl Jam didn't sell out, they grew up.

The anti-success ethos they used to pride themselves on is a pretty hollow gesture when you've already had success rammed down your throat to capacity.

Pearl Jam have become savvy enough to realise that it is not "selling out" to make business deals that guarantee your music be heared by as many people as possible. Commercial success is a good thing.

The Fixer is a brilliant pop-song and there's nothing wrong with that. I personally cringe when I hear accounts of Vedder being uncomfortable with how "poppy" Betterman originally sounded so stripped it down to just guitar and organ, how massively pretentious.

Thankfully, someone made him see sense and now they all know that to write a catchy, accessible tune that people can whistle on the way to buy their record from a major retailer or tickets to a concert is not as evil as they once thought.

LongRoad · March 2011

aus_suz wrote:

As long as u are in the building it will all be good...
Ive got 10c tickets.. dunno what they will be like...
They are all over the place..
although a guy that had front row thursday night got front row again tonight... lucky bugger..

I doubt its luck.

boyo79 · March 2011

eddiefan1992 wrote:

So my only question is did Pearl Jam get with target to create this commercial or did Target take the liberty to make this commercial on their own? This looks a lot like The Fixer video I have when I bought Backspacer on iTunes

Its just the Fixer video but with Target logos in the background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdF1Rqet9E8&feature=fvst

dimitrispearljam · March 2011

pearl jam is a band that create music..thats their job..and they take money from this job???
such a shame.. :roll:
this is music intustry....even in this times,pj try alot to help people,causes..you forget all and talk about target shit..
who the fuck is target and what this have to do with pj band and their members as personality..
and who are we to tell them what to do with their business??
i love their music,love their lyrics,love the way play live..
how they do business,who choose as a partner,how much cost their cd ,what company they promote their job,.isnt my fuckin bussiness..

boyo79 · March 2011

I had more of a problem with the 1st vid at the gig than the Fixer ad. Ed's comments were so fake and contrived and unnecessary. 'Jewel's put her music on a tv ad and we turned down $6m to put Alive on a viagara ad. Aren't we so cool'.

We all know Backspacer is the most commercial record PJ have ever done. I'm not a fan of the album but I still love PJ. If the next record follows the same path as Backspacer I think its then that I will question the direction they taking.

Have PJ sold out? Have we, as fans sold out? It works hand-in-hand. Us fans want everything PJ related, we lap it up, we want more so they bring out more merch. Its supply and demand.

Dark Star · March 2011

Passim wrote:

The Target commercial is every bit as appalling and indefensible to me. That our beloved PJ can view what they do with this level of cynicism, for money that they don't truly need, just floors me. That commercial was a dark day in the band's history, one that I will not "soon forget."

Add to this the FACT that Target donates truckloads of money -- money that came from Pearl Jam and its fans -- to support right-wing Republicans and anti-gay legislation. For me, that's a dealbreaker.

http://gothamist.com/2010/08/04/target_in_crosshairs_for_supporting.php

Is this really what Pearl Jam is all about? Have they really become that cynical? Do they not believe in miracles anymore? I honestly and truly thought these guys were better than this, that they wouldn't sell their souls for a buck. I'm am deeply saddened to say that I was 100% wrong.

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. I hope the discussion will be allowed to continue.

Haha, that article was from Aug 2010, a year after backspacer and it was a dealbreaker? All I read was that they gave 150K to one republican from wisconsin running for office. Lol. Quite contrary to your FACT.

aus_suz · March 2011

LongRoad wrote:

aus_suz wrote:

As long as u are in the building it will all be good...
Ive got 10c tickets.. dunno what they will be like...
They are all over the place..
although a guy that had front row thursday night got front row again tonight... lucky bugger..

I doubt its luck.

All the 10c seats were the same tonight as Thursday night seats and probably tomorrow night
too the same..
Lucky he got front row on Thursday..
Unlucky for the person that got up the back on Thursday and again tonight..

Back on track..
Didnt Jeff say in an interview that this was the best deal ever for the band signing with Target..
That it was much better for the band compared to any other album deals they had signed in the past or something along those lines..

tremors · March 2011

aus_suz wrote:

LongRoad wrote:

aus_suz wrote:

Back on track..
Didnt Jeff say in an interview that this was the best deal ever for the band signing with Target..
That it was much better for the band compared to any other album deals they had signed in the past or something along those lines..

I seem to remember one of the key things about the Target distribution deal was that unlike most similar mass distribution deals, they weren't tied in to an exclusive relationship with Target. So in parallel they released the record through the independent and small scale record store networks - something that would have been impossible with a different deal for the mainstream distribution (this is my understanding). So they did two things - they hit the mainstream, and the independent at the same time. I think Jeff was probably referring to the fact that this was an unusual arrangement. I didn't have a problem with it. I know nothing about the advert - I've never seen it. Backspacer was all about contending for some mainstream airplay and mainstream appeal - in the same way that No Code was all about retreating from these elements. I welcomed it at this particular time in the band's history - and having reestablished themselves as still being able to cut it in the mainstream, I doubt they will keep going in this direction. Backspacer has been one moment and one approach in the band's long history, and there will be many more to come. They'll probably put out an unlistenable album soon and some people may be happier. I am interested that some people are saying Riot Act was their last proper lp - because a lot of fans slated that when it came out, and a lot of fans slated no code when that came out.....

Parksy · March 2011

K...

Here's the thing with what you're saying.. and what Eddie / Pearl Jam is saying.

You're basing this on the Target commercial.

The commercial itself I do not believe advertises for Target. It's promoting the band and Backspacer. I see nothing wrong with that. That's like being upset seeing Pearl Jam cd's advertised in a Best Buy flyer. It's not Pearl Jam promoting Best Buy. It's Best Buy promoting Pearl Jam. See what I mean?

And as Eddie said in that first video.. they turned down a $6M offer to use a song for a commercial. That's totally different. That's selling out. Using a song for a product or endorsing a product would be selling out.

Pearl Jam did not do that. They advertised themselves.

What the fuck is wrong with that?!?!??!!

Especially in today's music industry.

Dr. Delight · March 2011

I keep reading"the direction they went with Backspacer". What exactly does this mean?
Are some of you people implying that that album was made for a bunch of commercials and is light in subject matter or approach? I dont get it.

gecko · March 2011

Just some of the quotes from the SPIN article, September 2009:

"Target just seemed like the best partner for us right now," Ament explains. "They're hipper. They have a huge philanthropy side." They were also, according to Curtis, the only big-box retailer willing to share distribution rights with independent music stores and Pearl Jam's fan club -- a must for the band.

And people say, 'Oh, Pearl Jam are working with this corporation' -- fuck that! We were on Sony for 20 years." (Jeff)

"We've always tried to subvert the business," McCready says. "But now that we're putting out a record on our own, we're taking on the responsibility of sinking or swimming ourselves. If that means writing a song that sounds like a mainstream radio hit, we're going to do that. And if it means going on TV to promote ourselves, we're going to do that, too."

http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=111283

aus_suz · March 2011

tremors wrote:

aus_suz wrote:

LongRoad wrote:

I seem to remember one of the key things about the Target distribution deal was that unlike most similar mass distribution deals, they weren't tied in to an exclusive relationship with Target. So in parallel they released the record through the independent and small scale record store networks - something that would have been impossible with a different deal for the mainstream distribution (this is my understanding). So they did two things - they hit the mainstream, and the independent at the same time. I think Jeff was probably referring to the fact that this was an unusual arrangement. I didn't have a problem with it. I know nothing about the advert - I've never seen it. Backspacer was all about contending for some mainstream airplay and mainstream appeal - in the same way that No Code was all about retreating from these elements. I welcomed it at this particular time in the band's history - and having reestablished themselves as still being able to cut it in the mainstream, I doubt they will keep going in this direction. Backspacer has been one moment and one approach in the band's long history, and there will be many more to come. They'll probably put out an unlistenable album soon and some people may be happier. I am interested that some people are saying Riot Act was their last proper lp - because a lot of fans slated that when it came out, and a lot of fans slated no code when that came out.....

Yeah I need to find the clip .. It was something like in the past the record companies had looked after themselves and not the band when signing them for new album deals where the Target deal was a deal that was good for the band at the time...
Yeah I remember also when Riot Ac came out ppl moaning about it....
The whole concept of Backspacer was different..... The way the Band worked on it together from the start
not the way they had done previous albums...

I was trying to remember what interview when Ed said he was no longer angry, he couldnt
be angry forever....
The Band with their families now how more responsiblities than they had back in the 90's..
Let them worry about what kind of deals and promotions they want to do with their band
and lets us worry whether we are going to be digital or analogue for the next yr and whether
they will ever re-release Benny on vinyl again thats our jobs as fans...

False_Belief · March 2011

They're only human. People slip up now and again, even when they have the best intentions at heart. I think it's comparable to the Springsteen/Wall-Mart thing from a couple of years ago (http://pitchfork.com/news/34501-springs ... a-mistake/).
Springsteen himself said afterward: "We just dropped the ball on it. It was a mistake. Our batting average is usually very good, but we missed that one. Fans will call you on that stuff, as it should be".. Pearl Jam's 'batting average' is far, far better than most bands, so I think people need to cut them some slack over this.

Pearl Jam Hypocrisy

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