Pearl Jam Hypocrisy

aus_suz

gecko wrote:

Just some of the quotes from the SPIN article, September 2009:

"Target just seemed like the best partner for us right now," Ament explains. "They're hipper. They have a huge philanthropy side." They were also, according to Curtis, the only big-box retailer willing to share distribution rights with independent music stores and Pearl Jam's fan club -- a must for the band.

And people say, 'Oh, Pearl Jam are working with this corporation' -- fuck that! We were on Sony for 20 years." (Jeff)

"We've always tried to subvert the business," McCready says. "But now that we're putting out a record on our own, we're taking on the responsibility of sinking or swimming ourselves. If that means writing a song that sounds like a mainstream radio hit, we're going to do that. And if it means going on TV to promote ourselves, we're going to do that, too."

http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=111283

Yeah I read that in Spin too..

missisles

boyo79 wrote:

eddiefan1992 wrote:

So my only question is did Pearl Jam get with target to create this commercial or did Target take the liberty to make this commercial on their own? This looks a lot like The Fixer video I have when I bought Backspacer on iTunes

Its just the Fixer video but with Target logos in the background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdF1Rqet9E8&feature=fvst

it most certainly is

but holy fuck
we didnt get any promotion like that in aus

i think its a cool ad
and if i were sitting on my couch
and seen that
id slide straight off my chair

pjl44

Meh...the music industry has changed dramatically. I still enjoy the shit out of their output and live shows, so I'm more than happy to support the band. If the day ever comes when that changes, I'll just drift away without any tornado of fury.

I think people often feel as if they are fostering a relationship with the artist themselves and not just the music. If you're doing that with someone you don't know, it's probably only a matter of time before you're disappointed. Appreciate artists for their work and save the moral evaluation for people who are actually a part of your life.

Bu$chlager

The OP makes an excellent point, and articulately so.

The only thing sadder than that Fixer video is watching fans backpedal ferociously and try to defend the band as if nothing has changed. If you actually beleive Pearl Jam acts and behaves and makes business decisions the same way they did in 1995, I want what you're smoking. You really have to have some high-tech blinders on.

Then there are the fans that try to justify it with comments about how they are just promoting themselves, they all have families now, they're getting older, etc. Remember when you didn't have to make excuses for Pearl Jam?

Where I differ from the OP is the whole, "Well, fuck you now PJ." That's a bit much. This is still, by all standards, a phenomenal band. Yes, there is absolutely some hypocrisy in their modern actions, but who among us is any better? Can you imagine if your life was on tape and video as much as Eddie Vedders? I bet there are things you've said 5, 10, 15 years ago that if played today would make you cringe. I know the same could be done for me.

My point is that everything changes, and there's 3 ways to go about it: 1) you dig your heels in and blindly spin anything and everything you can to beleive this is the EXACT same band that wrote Satan's Bed, 2) you say "Fuck You" or 3) you acknowledge it, make amends, and continue to enjoy the ride. My guess is, despite the fact that you seem upset, considering you've continued listening to their music and posting on this board, you're probably #3.

"Things were different then, all is different now..."

AzWicker

Mal wrote:

You posted a Target commercial. They are promoting themselves. They are promoting a product. When they made the deal with Target they also made a deal to have their record released in all the Mom and Pop record stores staying true to their roots. They aren't using their music to promote any other product other then themselves. I recall in 1997 there was a commercial for Yield.

Can you give me an example of a Pearl Jam song in a commercial being used to promote a product as in the examples you gave?

And as far as I remember they aren't lip-syncing in the commercial. I thought I recalled that they played live for the commercial.

Bands evolve. Technology evolves. Everything evolves. I don't see any hypocrisy. The band is just "out there" more then they were in the early days.

+1

Stone even said it passed his moral requirements, so it probably is all Stone's fault.

That said if there is only one play to buy the record, having a commercial showing where it is available is not sacrilege like Bob Seger selling Pickups or Zeppelin selling Cadillacs or the Beatles selling Nikes...

threefish10

AzWicker wrote:

+1

Stone even said it passed his moral requirements, so it probably is all Stone's fault.

That said if there is only one play to buy the record, having a commercial showing where it is available is not sacrilege like Bob Seger selling Pickups or Zeppelin selling Cadillacs or the Beatles selling Nikes...

But those beetles air force ones were awesome.

But the whole massive target symbols all over that ad were a bit of a joke, sure advertise, and maybe say at the end "only available at target" or similar, but to edit target logos all over the film clip was a bit overboard maybe.

eldarion75

The only thing Pj promoted by signing a deal with Target was Pj..if the deal had seen exclusivity with target then your complaints would be valid but it didn't do anything like that.

Pj was the product being promoted. get over it.

aus_suz

threefish10 wrote:

AzWicker wrote:

+1

Stone even said it passed his moral requirements, so it probably is all Stone's fault.

That said if there is only one play to buy the record, having a commercial showing where it is available is not sacrilege like Bob Seger selling Pickups or Zeppelin selling Cadillacs or the Beatles selling Nikes...

But those beetles air force ones were awesome.

But the whole massive target symbols all over that ad were a bit of a joke, sure advertise, and maybe say at the end "only available at target" or similar, but to edit target logos all over the film clip was a bit overboard maybe.

Doesnt Ed have those Target Logos on his suitcase..
I have seen those b4 didnt connect they were Target logos....
I just thought Ed had kinda copied The Who logo and the Record Store one....

Btw I love shopping at Target wish they would open a store in Sorell real soon

dimitrispearljam

pjl44 wrote:

Meh...the music industry has changed dramatically. I still enjoy the shit out of their output and live shows, so I'm more than happy to support the band. If the day ever comes when that changes, I'll just drift away without any tornado of fury.

I think people often feel as if they are fostering a relationship with the artist themselves and not just the music. If you're doing that with someone you don't know, it's probably only a matter of time before you're disappointed. Appreciate artists for their work and save the moral evaluation for people who are actually a part of your life.

eldarion75

aus_suz wrote:

Doesnt Ed have those Target Logos on his suitcase..
I have seen those b4 didnt connect they were Target logos....
I just thought Ed had kinda copied The Who logo and the Record Store one....

Btw I love shopping at Target wish they would open a store in Sorell real soon

Those are Who logos, the Who used the target logo belonging to the British ministry of defence since they started in the 60's.

Ed's stickers are Who logos..not target logos..

aus_suz

eldarion75 wrote:

aus_suz wrote:

Doesnt Ed have those Target Logos on his suitcase..
I have seen those b4 didnt connect they were Target logos....
I just thought Ed had kinda copied The Who logo and the Record Store one....

Btw I love shopping at Target wish they would open a store in Sorell real soon

Those are Who logos, the Who used the target logo belonging to the British ministry of defence since they started in the 60's.

Ed's stickers are Who logos..not target logos..

Dont The Who ones have blue on it.... Ive seen just red ones...

pandora

Don't spank me for this ..... I think Pearl Jam just grew up is all

family men in their 40's

Let the 20 somethings change the world .... right?
which they probably won't

then when they have families and are in their 40's they will get the Target thing
and have much more important things to worry about then the hypocrisy
of growing older and one's views changing over time.

eldarion75

Dont The Who ones have blue on it.... Ive seen just red ones...

Pics?

do you really believe ed would have target stickers on his stuff? i mean really?

mfc2006

i can't believe this is still being talked about after being talked to death. Target was a distribution deal---PJ wanted to try something new (just like a lot of bands these days---see Radiohead, for example). so is your argument that they sold out from the very beginning? because weren't they represented by one of the biggest companies/labels when Sony/Epic handled their distribution?

there's a lot more i could say, but i'm just going to leave it alone. i don't see the point in saying "Fuck You, Eddie" like the original poster did over a distribution deal. no thanks, i'll pass.

eldarion75

Black73

adamdude wrote:

aus_suz wrote:

adamdude wrote:

quote="adamdude"]
Yeah I'm going to the second Melbourne show, you?

Yeah same.....u have 10c tickets?

Nah they sold out too fast, got the public sale. Row W i think

Looks like Eddie "sold out" again - in this case, another venue.

A-Dude, thanks for posting and for everyone saving their inflammatory comments...very good debate. My stance: S/T album was self-promoted, and try as I might I could not find exact, dependable #s on record sales of S/T and Backspacer. I would bet that S/T, promoted on J records, did not reach anywhere near the # of folks as did Backspacer. Two personal examples: My kid sister used to listen to 90's-era PJ, attended concerts, but was not a hardcore fanclub member. She lost track of them in the early 2000's, and was surprised to learn PJ was still together while buying diapers for her baby in...Target. She was happy that PJ reached fans in a different phase of their lives. 2nd example: my cousin is in her third year of college and is discovering her musical influences. While shopping at...Target, she saw Backspacer, and having heard "Just Breathe" on college radio, she picked it up. During a recent visit here, she asked me if Pearl Jam had any other music "...as good as Backspacer." I gripped my chair firmly so I wouldn't fall out, then I proceeded to play their previous 8 studio albums.

So, did PJ "sell out?" Who gives a fuck what business decision they made to promote and sell their albums? They're not promoting ladies' razors, deodorant, diet soda, vehicles, viagra, etc. They've entered a business agreement with a company, yes. They have not, however, sold their souls in preparation to individually fuck each and every fan...20 years of trying their best to be a fan-friendly band is a pretty strong track record and evidence this is not going to happen.

I'm guessing they'll '"sell out" later this year...I'm just hoping it's Alpine Valley!

aus_suz

eldarion75 wrote:

Dont The Who ones have blue on it.... Ive seen just red ones...

Pics?

do you really believe ed would have target stickers on his stuff? i mean really?

U think hes too cool for that.... lol..
If can find it I will post or when I do I will...
I never thought they were target stickers at the time
I thought they were like bullseyes and really thought it was a take
off of The Who and the Easy Street sticker...
Im off to bed its 1:50am here...
The Aussies in Brisbane had a great night...
Front row getting on Stage with Ed during Hard Sun.. awesome!!

aus_suz

eldarion75 wrote:

nah didnt have the PJ in the middle.. was a small red circle...

The Akkus

Maybe its possible, that in order to keep up with their commitments to charities across the world as well as the fact that no one buys music anymore, Pearl Jam is trying to market themselves. Its possible that the good they can do for humanity and earth by appealing to a wider audience outweighs their own personal reasons for not wanting to do any commercial advertisement.

I back the band and their decisions of this type 100%, because one thing I truly believe after following this band so closely since the beginning is, they care, they love, and they want to make the world a better place.

SuperStickman

Passim wrote:

Add to this the FACT that Target donates truckloads of money -- money that came from Pearl Jam and its fans -- to support right-wing Republicans and anti-gay legislation. For me, that's a dealbreaker.

http://gothamist.com/2010/08/04/target_in_crosshairs_for_supporting.php

.

I will admit that I was a little disappointed with the Target deal mostly because I hate those big box stores. I realize Target is no Wal*Mart, but still.

On the other hand, they were putting out and promoting an album pretty much all on their own; why not get themselves a partner that can help them and get them some free advertising? Would you have felt better if you could have also bought the album in KMart,CostCo and Sam's Club? You know...the little guys. :roll: Not every town has an indy record store and sometimes some people may not be able to afford shipping and handling to get themselves an actual album.

All of that being said, now that we know what we know about Target and their political affiliations, I really hope PJ severs their relationship with them. Lady Gaga (yes, I love Lady Gaga...) did so recently because of this issue and I haven't shopped there since this information was released. I hope PJ has at least as much integrity as Lady Gaga and I. (In all my life I think that might be the oddest sentence I have ever written. )