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pickupyourwill · February 2011

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polaris_x · February 2011

health care much like any other government program requires two main things for success:

1. proper funding
2. efficiency

our health care system has not adequately been funded for a long time now which has led to major wait times and less than effective care ... it also is problematic in a country that is becoming more and more divided politically than it ever has ... it used to be that all major parties supported health care but the social conservatives have been replaced by a more right wing ideology and they believe in privatization which means that the program no longer is running as the same ideal ...

people will criticize the wait times and the quality of care but those are just symptoms of the two points above ... as a socialist - i believe health care should be universal to all citizens ... and for the most part it is here ... my good friend last year had a new baby that had an under developed colon and a wife with leukemia ... i'm not sure where he would be right now if he had to worry about paying those bills ... (of course he still has many - but he isn't crippled by debt now either) ...

fife · February 2011

pickupyourwill wrote:

...such a beautiful idea isn't it? It seems like it would be much more simple than America's f&%ked up health care insurances--even if you have to pay high taxes and wait a few months to a year to see a doctor, I almost think it would still be worth it to move there...for someone like me anyway, who is looking at atleast $20,000 in medical expenses in the next 5 yrs or so.

Any Canadians out there with good advice or tips about their health care?

my only advice to people is this: if you didn't know how your life was going to turn out what kind of a medical system would you want. I would bet everyone who answered would say that they would want a system that would be fair to all. American system is not fair to all.

lukin2006 · February 2011

pickupyourwill wrote:

...such a beautiful idea isn't it? It seems like it would be much more simple than America's f&%ked up health care insurances--even if you have to pay high taxes and wait a few months to a year to see a doctor, I almost think it would still be worth it to move there...for someone like me anyway, who is looking at atleast $20,000 in medical expenses in the next 5 yrs or so.

Any Canadians out there with good advice or tips about their health care?

It all depends on who you ask, some people will rave about, some people find it so so and some people would much prefer your system. Personally if your in an area that has doctors or plenty of clinics then you are going to be quite satisfied. I moved from an area that only had 1 clinic and no doctors with open practices and it was dreadful, you either go to the hospital and wait or wait at the clinic. We do suffer from a shortage of doctors, which according to my doctor is leading to problems. I am in the so so category, it could be better, it also could be, just happy I'm healthy and I don't have to under go any major treatment to find out.

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2011

I'll tell you this... when I moved to America, I was AGHAST at how bad and Kafka-like their health care "system" was which was really just a way to get you to pay them for rubber stamping you on the forehead.

In Canada the wait times are really no longer than they are down here in America. That's a myth. I've been to plenty of US and Canadian Hospitals and the only difference it seems is that in Canada you actually choose your own doctor even if you're not rich and even the under-staffed places seem to actually give a shit if you die or not.

Canada's system isn't perfect and it needs a lot of fine-tuning to update it to a more modern reality.

but I'd take it over the US system ANY day, thanks. I'd like to live.

haffajappa · February 2011

polaris_x wrote:

health care much like any other government program requires two main things for success:

1. proper funding
2. efficiency

our health care system has not adequately been funded for a long time now which has led to major wait times and less than effective care ... it also is problematic in a country that is becoming more and more divided politically than it ever has ... it used to be that all major parties supported health care but the social conservatives have been replaced by a more right wing ideology and they believe in privatization which means that the program no longer is running as the same ideal ...

people will criticize the wait times and the quality of care but those are just symptoms of the two points above ... as a socialist - i believe health care should be universal to all citizens ... and for the most part it is here ... my good friend last year had a new baby that had an under developed colon and a wife with leukemia ... i'm not sure where he would be right now if he had to worry about paying those bills ... (of course he still has many - but he isn't crippled by debt now either) ...

I think this post hits the nail on the head.
Our healthcare system is really starting to go south, but that isn't entirely because the system is flawed (in my opinion), it's because the way it is starting to be managed. Coming from someone who has many friends and family members who are a part of it (either works in some sector of it or is a patient), it gets frustrating thinking of how the government is really starting to bugger it up.

I think most Canadians are frustrated with our system but still feel its way ahead of the US in a lot of ways.
I don't care what anyone says I think everyone should have a right to the chance at life no matter how deep your pockets are. There is something intrinsically flawed in a system which requires you to call your insurance provider before you call an ambulance.

lukin2006 · February 2011

I also think part of the problem with our system, specifically here in Ontario is far to few doctors, this forces people to the ER. The ER should be reserved for emergencies only. The government should be encouraging doctors and clinics to offer evening and weekend hours to keep people out of Er's.

I hate to break it to people but we're going to see more private sector involvement in health care, health care has just become to expensive for the government to do it alone. I believe Ontario spends around 42% of every tax $$$ on health care on the way to 50%, add in education and we're probably close to 70% on those 2 items alone.

WaveCameCrashin · February 2011

This is why many Americans don't want universal healthcare. It doesn't work. Sure we have problems with our health ins companies, but Medicaid,Medicare,and the VA turn away people more than private ins companies do. Yes we need reform but obamacare is not the answer.It will make things worse.

lukin2006 wrote:

I also think part of the problem with our system, specifically here in Ontario is far to few doctors, this forces people to the ER. The ER should be reserved for emergencies only. The government should be encouraging doctors and clinics to offer evening and weekend hours to keep people out of Er's.

I hate to break it to people but we're going to see more private sector involvement in health care, health care has just become to expensive for the government to do it alone. I believe Ontario spends around 42% of every tax $$$ on health care on the way to 50%, add in education and we're probably close to 70% on those 2 items alone.

Smellyman · February 2011

Yes, according to fox news and some Americans vast knowledge and experience with universal health care....:(

prfctlefts wrote:

This is why many Americans don't want universal healthcare. It doesn't work. Sure we have problems with our health ins companies, but Medicaid,Medicare,and the VA turn away people more than private ins companies do. Yes we need reform but obamacare is not the answer.It will make things worse.

lukin2006 wrote:

I also think part of the problem with our system, specifically here in Ontario is far to few doctors, this forces people to the ER. The ER should be reserved for emergencies only. The government should be encouraging doctors and clinics to offer evening and weekend hours to keep people out of Er's.

I hate to break it to people but we're going to see more private sector involvement in health care, health care has just become to expensive for the government to do it alone. I believe Ontario spends around 42% of every tax $$$ on health care on the way to 50%, add in education and we're probably close to 70% on those 2 items alone.

lukin2006 · February 2011

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/video2 ... /home.html
http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/video2 ... /day2.html
http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/video2 ... /day3.html

lukin2006 · February 2011

Smellyman wrote:

Yes, according to fox news and some Americans vast knowledge and experience with universal health care....:(

prfctlefts wrote:

This is why many Americans don't want universal healthcare. It doesn't work. Sure we have problems with our health ins companies, but Medicaid,Medicare,and the VA turn away people more than private ins companies do. Yes we need reform but obamacare is not the answer.It will make things worse.

lukin2006 wrote:

I also think part of the problem with our system, specifically here in Ontario is far to few doctors, this forces people to the ER. The ER should be reserved for emergencies only. The government should be encouraging doctors and clinics to offer evening and weekend hours to keep people out of Er's.

I hate to break it to people but we're going to see more private sector involvement in health care, health care has just become to expensive for the government to do it alone. I believe Ontario spends around 42% of every tax $$$ on health care on the way to 50%, add in education and we're probably close to 70% on those 2 items alone.

Well I have lived with universal health care my whole life, here in Ontario it has been getting worse, the problem is the cost, this not the 70's or earlier...all these diagnostic test and all the modern procedures that are performed cost $$$, those $$$ are eating away at the health care budget and it's only going to get worse.

he still stands · February 2011

The biggest selling point for me (not that I , or any of us, had a vote) was that Obama's plan will save trillions of dollars over the long run. The cost of health care and insurance is so out of control it makes social security look like a safe bet.

That, and I'm sympathetic to those who don't have the money to pay for it.

unsung · February 2011

pickupyourwill wrote:

...such a beautiful idea isn't it? It seems like it would be much more simple than America's f&%ked up health care insurances--even if you have to pay high taxes

And of course if there were someone on the fence this is the best way to convince them.

And if they didn't believe in paying for others you belittle them right off the bat so it turns into an argument instead of a quality discussion.

Why didn't you just title it "UHC haters go fuck off"?

unsung · February 2011

he still stands wrote:

That, and I'm sympathetic to those who don't have the money to pay for it.

Let's not dismiss the fact that the purchase mandate is unconstitutional.

zarocat · February 2011

One thing about our Canadian Health Care is that emergency doctors at hospitals will let you know straight out that you shouldn't have come if it is a situation that could have waited for one's family doctor.

bytterman · February 2011

I've never lived in the States and don't understand your system as a whole, but I think that those with less money are likely better off here, but people with the means might be better served by a US-style system, at least in some situations (is that non-committal enough?). The perception of horrible wait-times is overblown in some cases; someone I know very well got a truly shitty, incurable diagnosis in mid-Sept, and was having specialist treatment within days, not weeks/months/years.

The elephant in the health-care closet is the relationship between the Federal government and the provinces. The provinces provide health care, but Ottawa provides much of the money via the health transfer, with the idea being equivalent care across the country. But costs are rising, provincial/federal relations are far from an all time high, and some folks are looking for alternative models. Lukin2006 is probably bang-on, some form of mixed funding model is on the horizon.

pickupyourwill wrote:

...such a beautiful idea isn't it? It seems like it would be much more simple than America's f&%ked up health care insurances--even if you have to pay high taxes and wait a few months to a year to see a doctor, I almost think it would still be worth it to move there...for someone like me anyway, who is looking at atleast $20,000 in medical expenses in the next 5 yrs or so.

Any Canadians out there with good advice or tips about their health care?

Pickupyourwill if much of that cost is prescriptions I'm not sure that we're too different up here, big-pharma has long arms. Best of luck.

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2011

unsung wrote:

he still stands wrote:

That, and I'm sympathetic to those who don't have the money to pay for it.

Let's not dismiss the fact that the purchase mandate is unconstitutional.

That might be, although when Republicans suggested it in the Clinton years, I didn't hear the extreme right wingers crying like banshees.

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2011

Oh... one other thing...

My trainer has his own private gym on the north end of South Central Los Angeles. So I drive through downtown past the Staples Center to get there.

As I drive past, I often go past a bi-monthly "Free Mobile Clinic" that offers free health care to poor people. You know, like they have in Somalia and Ethiopia.

I see literally hundreds, maybe thousands of families lined up for to see a doctor. Some spend 18+ hours for 10 minutes with a doctor. Because that's their only chance for health care at all.

In a country that brags about being the "greatest country in the world," that's just unacceptable.

zarocat · February 2011

pickupyourwill wrote:

...such a beautiful idea isn't it? It seems like it would be much more simple than America's f&%ked up health care insurances--even if you have to pay high taxes and wait a few months to a year to see a doctor, I almost think it would still be worth it to move there...for someone like me anyway, who is looking at atleast $20,000 in medical expenses in the next 5 yrs or so.

Any Canadians out there with good advice or tips about their health care?

About the wait times. If you experience a wait time of let's say 8 hours, well, that's because all the cases that needed attention before you which were due to severity, have been looked at.
It's first come first serve, yes, but it is worst first served. I broke my collar bone in three places and when I got to emergency, I was stuck with morphine and x-rayed right away because I had to be. I definitely bumped everyone who was their with the sniffles or over anxious parents who were in emergency to treat their newborns fever.

whygohome · February 2011

Jasunmark wrote:

Oh... one other thing...

My trainer has his own private gym on the north end of South Central Los Angeles. So I drive through downtown past the Staples Center to get there.

As I drive past, I often go past a bi-monthly "Free Mobile Clinic" that offers free health care to poor people. You know, like they have in Somalia and Ethiopia.

I see literally hundreds, maybe thousands of families lined up for to see a doctor. Some spend 18+ hours for 10 minutes with a doctor. Because that's their only chance for health care at all.

In a country that brags about being the "greatest country in the world," that's just unacceptable.

My girlfriend grew up in Germany. She was talking to someone recently who said he had been to Germany and that it was really nice and that he enjoyed his visit. He asked her if she would ever move back there, and she said "yes" (she would move there yesterday). He said that he could never live there, so, my girlfriend asked, "Why not?" He replied, "because I love freedom too much."

This is the idiocy behind the "America is the Greatest Country in the World"mentality. Freedom is only an American virtue; no other nation has free citizens.........

This shit just drives me nuts.

Smellyman · February 2011

whygohome wrote:

Jasunmark wrote:

Oh... one other thing...

My trainer has his own private gym on the north end of South Central Los Angeles. So I drive through downtown past the Staples Center to get there.

As I drive past, I often go past a bi-monthly "Free Mobile Clinic" that offers free health care to poor people. You know, like they have in Somalia and Ethiopia.

I see literally hundreds, maybe thousands of families lined up for to see a doctor. Some spend 18+ hours for 10 minutes with a doctor. Because that's their only chance for health care at all.

In a country that brags about being the "greatest country in the world," that's just unacceptable.

My girlfriend grew up in Germany. She was talking to someone recently who said he had been to Germany and that it was really nice and that he enjoyed his visit. He asked her if she would ever move back there, and she said "yes" (she would move there yesterday). He said that he could never live there, so, my girlfriend asked, "Why not?" He replied, "because I love freedom too much."

This is the idiocy behind the "America is the Greatest Country in the World"mentality. Freedom is only an American virtue; no other nation has free citizens.........

This shit just drives me nuts.

It's a crappy catch phrase. What Freedoms was she missing?

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