What to do when your boss never takes responsibility?

SomethingCreative · October 2010

quit.

_ · October 2010

Haha... you guys crack me up. And thanks so much for the good advice.

I try to keep good documentation (which I think offends him). I try to get him to email me about everything, but he likes to call me with his responses, so I have a notebook where I write down what he tells me on the phone and in person.

When I'm talking to him and he's blaming me, though, I don't usually have time to sort through all my documentation to provide the evidence to refute him. If I do, he'll say I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Even if I just mention that I did something because it's what he told me to do, without busting out any documentation, he says I'm being defensive.

But nearly 8 years of being blamed for everything can really add up. And I know it adds up in his mind too. Let's say we have 3 problems with the schedule in a month and he blames me for them each time and each time I point out that they were actually his mistakes. He'll either drop it (without actually taking responsibility) or he'll deny it ("I never would have told you to do that"). If I then show him the email where he did in fact tell me that, he'll say I'm being defensive and then drop it without really taking responsibility. But then at the end of the month when our fellows are exhausted from working the unreasonable schedules he made me give them, he'll tell me I need to do a better job on the schedules from now on.

My job would actually be so perfect, too, if I had a better boss.

chadwick · October 2010

scb wrote:

Haha... you guys crack me up. And thanks so much for the good advice.

I try to keep good documentation (which I think offends him). I try to get him to email me about everything, but he likes to call me with his responses, so I have a notebook where I write down what he tells me on the phone and in person.

When I'm talking to him and he's blaming me, though, I don't usually have time to sort through all my documentation to provide the evidence to refute him. If I do, he'll say I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Even if I just mention that I did something because it's what he told me to do, without busting out any documentation, he says I'm being defensive.

But nearly 8 years of being blamed for everything can really add up. And I know it adds up in his mind too. Let's say we have 3 problems with the schedule in a month and he blames me for them each time and each time I point out that they were actually his mistakes. He'll either drop it (without actually taking responsibility) or he'll deny it ("I never would have told you to do that"). If I then show him the email where he did in fact tell me that, he'll say I'm being defensive and then drop it without really taking responsibility. But then at the end of the month when our fellows are exhausted from working the unreasonable schedules he made me give them, he'll tell me I need to do a better job on the schedules from now on.

My job would actually be so perfect, too, if I had a better boss.

ever tell him he's a jerk-off?

_ · October 2010

mickeyrat wrote:

. Sit down with him and state what you have here. then document the changes he wants to implement as he directs them. Ask him to sign it.That way you have have his direction on paper.

For myself , when I've had the opportunity to see my behavior on paper, that went a long way to helping me change that behavior.

I need to be better at this. I'm too nonconfrontational. (No, really, it's true!

) He's actually pretty sensitive and doesn't take criticism well. He'll get all hurt and then get defensive and turn everything around to blame me again. And then I just give up. Or sometimes he'll try to do better (especially when he was getting personality training) but it never lasts. And inevitably I feel bad for hurting his feelings.

chadwick · October 2010

scb wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

. Sit down with him and state what you have here. then document the changes he wants to implement as he directs them. Ask him to sign it.That way you have have his direction on paper.

For myself , when I've had the opportunity to see my behavior on paper, that went a long way to helping me change that behavior.

I need to be better at this. I'm too nonconfrontational. (No, really, it's true! ) He's actually pretty sensitive and doesn't take criticism well. He'll get all hurt and then get defensive and turn everything around to blame me again. And then I just give up. Or sometimes he'll try to do better (especially when he was getting personality training) but it never lasts. And inevitably I feel bad for hurting his feelings.

you are not used to him and everyone else walking all over you?
he was getting "personality training"?

_ · October 2010

chadwick wrote:

why the throwing around of ADHD around?
that's silly.
i have extreme attention disorder and i know what i say to people.
i know exactly what i hear and do.
that is screwy.

you people have bosses with more issues than just ADHD.

That last part is certainly true! I threw in the ADHD part because the man can't focus on one way of doing things and follow it through. He actually changes his mind in the middle of his sentence sometimes and I can't figure out what the hell he's talking about. Actually, I'd say most of the time I don't know what the hell he's talking about. I just scowl and nod. Many times when I ask him to clarify what he wants me to do he'll get all impatient & irritated and say, "I don't have time for this!"

iluvcats · October 2010

There are some good books out there on dealing with narcissists. Maybe check some out of the library?

It sounds like you can't say anything back to him. I think he'll fire you if you outline everything like you did here.

You've worked for him for 8 years? wow...

maybe he has borderline personality disorder.

chadwick · October 2010

scb wrote:

chadwick wrote:

why the throwing around of ADHD around?
that's silly.
i have extreme attention disorder and i know what i say to people.
i know exactly what i hear and do.
that is screwy.

you people have bosses with more issues than just ADHD.

That last part is certainly true! I threw in the ADHD part because the man can't focus on one way of doing things and follow it through. He actually changes his mind in the middle of his sentence sometimes and I can't figure out what the hell he's talking about. Actually, I'd say most of the time I don't know what the hell he's talking about. I just scowl and nod. Many times when I ask him to clarify what he wants me to do he'll get all impatient & irritated and say, "I don't have time for this!"

scb, what exactly do you do?

i hope my ADD/ADHD is not as screwy as what you describe here.
although i am told i cannot tell a story without fucking it all up, im all over the place and have to try very hard to stay on one track rather than several different tracks. it is grueling, believe me.
because of this i fail at life.

your boss sounds like he has multiple problems like 4&20 said

_ · October 2010

Ms. Haiku wrote:

Well, don't act frustrated like me.

I ended up on probation for 2 months because of it. :oops:

chadwick wrote:

ever tell him he's a jerk-off?

Haha... yeah, unfortunately sometimes (about once every year or two) I get frustrated enough to tell him how I feel about some things. That usually doesn't end particularly well.

The last, and worst, time was this past spring. He was actually pretty fucking pissed, in part because he had no idea why I would be upset. It took him a couple of months to calm down enough to talk to me about it (after I avoided him for the first couple of days and then went out of town). When he did, he just made his case for why he was right and I was wrong and I just gave up on him ever understanding and tried to acknowledge his feelings. I actually felt a little bit bad (though I don't think I had been mean or anything - just really direct). Like I said, he's not evil; he just really doesn't get it. He lives in his owl little alternate reality.

_ · October 2010

norm wrote:

scb wrote:

The administration knows how he is; everyone has a hard time working with him for many more reasons than just this one. They made him go to personality training for awhile when we started losing medical assistants and faculty started threatening to quit. I'm the third staff person in my position and the previous two didn't last for more than 6 months. But he's a brilliant, internationally renowned physician who does great things for our patients and brings in more clinical revenue than any other faculty member. And he's actually a good guy except for his personality problems. I mean, he's not evil or mean-spirited or anything - just self-serving.

regardless of whether he's "brilliant", why is he an administrator? he sounds completely incompetent for the job he has and yet is backed by the administration? i'd say this is unbelievable but this is how businesses and our governments are run now a days

I never really thought about it like this. He's the director of our program because 1) he started the program, and 2) he's the one with the medical skills and experience to direct the program. Management skills aren't really a consideration.

_ · October 2010

chadwick wrote:

you are not used to him and everyone else walking all over you?

Yes, I am. But I still get frustrated.

chadwick wrote:

he was getting "personality training"?

The Chair of our department was making him meet with her on a weekly basis to kind of mediate how he could work better with the rest of the department. (I wasn't supposed to know this.) I think it was helpful while it was happening, but it was obvious when it stopped.

chadwick wrote:

scb, what exactly do you do?

I basically coordinate a specific program for a specific discipline at a university health sciences center.

chadwick wrote:

i hope my ADD/ADHD is not as screwy as what you describe here.
although i am told i cannot tell a story without fucking it all up, im all over the place and have to try very hard to stay on one track rather than several different tracks. it is grueling, believe me.
because of this i fail at life.

your boss sounds like he has multiple problems like 4&20 said

Yes, I think he does have multiple issues, so I doubt that your ADHD is so screwy. Don't worry.

chadwick · October 2010

scb, want me to talk to him?
i will protect you from him.
it will be ok, promise.

next time he comes in here
im slapping him stupid with a chair upside the head

_ · October 2010

iluvcats wrote:

There are some good books out there on dealing with narcissists. Maybe check some out of the library?

It sounds like you can't say anything back to him. I think he'll fire you if you outline everything like you did here.

You've worked for him for 8 years? wow...

maybe he has borderline personality disorder.

That's a great idea about the books! Thanks! Yes, you're not the first person to suggest borderline personality disorder.

I sometimes fear being fired for telling him how I feel and sometimes get bold when I remember that he can't really fire me because I work for the department and he's just my supervisor. But he can say he doesn't want me to coordinate the program he directs anymore, and I work here specifically to be part of this program. He would be stupid to do this because it would be a serious blow to the program if I left - especially if I didn't stay long enough to train my replacement - and deep down he must know that no one else would put up with his shit. But at the same time, he's the kind of guy who would "fire" someone because he can't take criticism, if that makes sense. I've seen him take this attitude with our fellows, who are also under him. He really does want us to be happy, whether it's for us or just so he can feel good about himself (or so our program doesn't get a bad reputation). So when each and every one of our fellows threatens to quit mid-fellowship, he'll sit down with them and ask what can be done to make them happy. He'll try to implement the changes (until they conflict with something he wants), but if the fellow remains unhappy (and talks to him or anyone else about it) he'll start telling me that he doesn't want to hear anything else about it and if they're not happy here they should just leave. None of them has actually quit yet - but that's because I do everything I can to get them to stay.

Now I'm starting to feel a little bit bad talking shit about him. :oops: He would be so hurt if he knew. And, like I said, he's not a horrible person or anything. He does a lot of great things for people, especially his patients, but sometimes including me.

_ · October 2010

chadwick wrote:

scb, want me to talk to him?
i will protect you from him.
it will be ok, promise.

next time he comes in here
im slapping him stupid with a chair upside the head

Haha! Yes, please.

Thank you!

You sound like my office mate. She's in her 60s and from the Bronx. She's constantly threatening to knock him on his ass and give him a piece of her mind. One time he was in here giving me shit and she actually started to butt in and say "That's it! I'm going to tell him!" but I was able to get her to stop. He looked so confused.

See, that's one reason I can't quit this job. I have the best co-workers of all time ever!

chadwick · October 2010

scb wrote:

chadwick wrote:

scb, want me to talk to him?
i will protect you from him.
it will be ok, promise.

next time he comes in here
im slapping him stupid with a chair upside the head

Haha! Yes, please. Thank you!

You sound like my office mate. She's in her 60s and from the Bronx. She's constantly threatening to knock him on his ass and give him a piece of her mind. One time he was in here giving me shit and she actually started to butt in and say "That's it! I'm going to tell him!" but I was able to get her to stop. He looked so confused.

See, that's one reason I can't quit this job. I have the best co-workers of all time ever!

You do realize I am the same exact chadwick from the death penalty thread, yes/no?

_ · October 2010

chadwick wrote:

scb wrote:

chadwick wrote:

scb, want me to talk to him?
i will protect you from him.
it will be ok, promise.

next time he comes in here
im slapping him stupid with a chair upside the head

Haha! Yes, please. Thank you!

You sound like my office mate. She's in her 60s and from the Bronx. She's constantly threatening to knock him on his ass and give him a piece of her mind. One time he was in here giving me shit and she actually started to butt in and say "That's it! I'm going to tell him!" but I was able to get her to stop. He looked so confused.

See, that's one reason I can't quit this job. I have the best co-workers of all time ever!

You do realize I am the same exact chadwick from the death penalty thread, yes/no?

Yes. But you're nicer in this thread.

chadwick · October 2010

scb wrote:

Yes. But you're nicer in this thread.

hey
i am an angel in every thread :twisted:

norm · October 2010

scb wrote:

norm wrote:

scb wrote:

The administration knows how he is; everyone has a hard time working with him for many more reasons than just this one. They made him go to personality training for awhile when we started losing medical assistants and faculty started threatening to quit. I'm the third staff person in my position and the previous two didn't last for more than 6 months. But he's a brilliant, internationally renowned physician who does great things for our patients and brings in more clinical revenue than any other faculty member. And he's actually a good guy except for his personality problems. I mean, he's not evil or mean-spirited or anything - just self-serving.

regardless of whether he's "brilliant", why is he an administrator? he sounds completely incompetent for the job he has and yet is backed by the administration? i'd say this is unbelievable but this is how businesses and our governments are run now a days

I never really thought about it like this. He's the director of our program because 1) he started the program, and 2) he's the one with the medical skills and experience to direct the program. Management skills aren't really a consideration.

but it sounds like it should be, no? it seems like his lack of people skills is a detriment to the program...any chance you or someone can suggest to the higher ups that perhaps someone else handle the administration of the program and leave him to do what he is really good at?

_ · October 2010

norm wrote:

scb wrote:

norm wrote:

regardless of whether he's "brilliant", why is he an administrator? he sounds completely incompetent for the job he has and yet is backed by the administration? i'd say this is unbelievable but this is how businesses and our governments are run now a days

I never really thought about it like this. He's the director of our program because 1) he started the program, and 2) he's the one with the medical skills and experience to direct the program. Management skills aren't really a consideration.

but it sounds like it should be, no? it seems like his lack of people skills is a detriment to the program...any chance you or someone can suggest to the higher ups that perhaps someone else handle the administration of the program and leave him to do what he is really good at?

Of course I think management skills are important! And the administration is well aware of how everyone feels. In a way, I'm the one who administrates the program - but everyone has a boss, ya know? If he weren't such a micro-manager and just took more of a back seat, it wouldn't be such an issue.

But it's a physician training program, so no one is qualified to be the director except the only physician here who has had the training that we are training the other physicians on - and that's him. (No one else would really want the job anyway.) He couldn't just be the clinical teacher while someone else decides how the program will be run because people without his skills and experience are not only not qualified to do the hands-on teaching; they're also not qualified to decide the curriculum that is required to train people to competency.

Plus, we're not only an educational program but a clinical program as well, so obviously the best doctor is the one who needs to be in charge of the clinical services. I'm not sure if I'm making sense. Basically, you wouldn't want to get a c-section from a doctor whose training program was directed by someone who didn't know how to do c-sections and you wouldn't want to get a c-section in a hospital whose maternity care services were run by someone who didn't know how to do c-sections, ya know?

And aside from being an educational & clinical program, we're a research program - and his name is the one that brings in the grant money and gets research published. Despite the fact that I administer all the grants & studies and he hardly even know what's going on with them, I can't get grant funding or be the principle investigator of a study because I'm not a faculty member.

It's complicated.

I have to say though, except for the interpersonal skills, our program does great things under his direction, which is why I still want to be a part of it. He really is a leader in this field.

You're right, though, when you say his lack of people skills has been somewhat detrimental to the program. Most people who come to our fellowship, for instance, do so for the chance to work with him (so they probably wouldn't come if he weren't the director). But when they actually start working closely with him, every single one of them cracks, spends hours crying in my office, and seriously considers quitting. (Me & the senior fellows make bets about when the new one will crack.) But then, once they graduate and are out of the fire and can get a job anywhere and are making bank with the skills he taught them, they usually end up feeling like putting up with him was worth it (which is what I tell them to keep them from quitting - and then I get them drunk). Too bad I'm never going to be making bank for putting up with him.

chadwick · October 2010

was prickface nice to you today?

What to do when your boss never takes responsibility?

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