The Chair of our department was making him meet with her on a weekly basis to kind of mediate how he could work better with the rest of the department. (I wasn't supposed to know this.) I think it was helpful while it was happening, but it was obvious when it stopped.
i hope my ADD/ADHD is not as screwy as what you describe here.
although i am told i cannot tell a story without fucking it all up, im all over the place and have to try very hard to stay on one track rather than several different tracks. it is grueling, believe me.
because of this i fail at life.
your boss sounds like he has multiple problems like 4&20 said
Yes, I think he does have multiple issues, so I doubt that your ADHD is so screwy. Don't worry.
There are some good books out there on dealing with narcissists. Maybe check some out of the library?
It sounds like you can't say anything back to him. I think he'll fire you if you outline everything like you did here.
You've worked for him for 8 years? wow...
maybe he has borderline personality disorder.
That's a great idea about the books! Thanks! Yes, you're not the first person to suggest borderline personality disorder.
I sometimes fear being fired for telling him how I feel and sometimes get bold when I remember that he can't really fire me because I work for the department and he's just my supervisor. But he can say he doesn't want me to coordinate the program he directs anymore, and I work here specifically to be part of this program. He would be stupid to do this because it would be a serious blow to the program if I left - especially if I didn't stay long enough to train my replacement - and deep down he must know that no one else would put up with his shit. But at the same time, he's the kind of guy who would "fire" someone because he can't take criticism, if that makes sense. I've seen him take this attitude with our fellows, who are also under him. He really does want us to be happy, whether it's for us or just so he can feel good about himself (or so our program doesn't get a bad reputation). So when each and every one of our fellows threatens to quit mid-fellowship, he'll sit down with them and ask what can be done to make them happy. He'll try to implement the changes (until they conflict with something he wants), but if the fellow remains unhappy (and talks to him or anyone else about it) he'll start telling me that he doesn't want to hear anything else about it and if they're not happy here they should just leave. None of them has actually quit yet - but that's because I do everything I can to get them to stay.
Now I'm starting to feel a little bit bad talking shit about him. :oops: He would be so hurt if he knew. And, like I said, he's not a horrible person or anything. He does a lot of great things for people, especially his patients, but sometimes including me.
scb, want me to talk to him?
i will protect you from him.
it will be ok, promise.
next time he comes in here
im slapping him stupid with a chair upside the head
Haha! Yes, please. Thank you!
You sound like my office mate. She's in her 60s and from the Bronx. She's constantly threatening to knock him on his ass and give him a piece of her mind. One time he was in here giving me shit and she actually started to butt in and say "That's it! I'm going to tell him!" but I was able to get her to stop. He looked so confused.
See, that's one reason I can't quit this job. I have the best co-workers of all time ever!
scb, want me to talk to him?
i will protect you from him.
it will be ok, promise.
next time he comes in here
im slapping him stupid with a chair upside the head
Haha! Yes, please. Thank you!
You sound like my office mate. She's in her 60s and from the Bronx. She's constantly threatening to knock him on his ass and give him a piece of her mind. One time he was in here giving me shit and she actually started to butt in and say "That's it! I'm going to tell him!" but I was able to get her to stop. He looked so confused.
See, that's one reason I can't quit this job. I have the best co-workers of all time ever!
You do realize I am the same exact chadwick from the death penalty thread, yes/no?
scb, want me to talk to him?
i will protect you from him.
it will be ok, promise.
next time he comes in here
im slapping him stupid with a chair upside the head
Haha! Yes, please. Thank you!
You sound like my office mate. She's in her 60s and from the Bronx. She's constantly threatening to knock him on his ass and give him a piece of her mind. One time he was in here giving me shit and she actually started to butt in and say "That's it! I'm going to tell him!" but I was able to get her to stop. He looked so confused.
See, that's one reason I can't quit this job. I have the best co-workers of all time ever!
You do realize I am the same exact chadwick from the death penalty thread, yes/no?
The administration knows how he is; everyone has a hard time working with him for many more reasons than just this one. They made him go to personality training for awhile when we started losing medical assistants and faculty started threatening to quit. I'm the third staff person in my position and the previous two didn't last for more than 6 months. But he's a brilliant, internationally renowned physician who does great things for our patients and brings in more clinical revenue than any other faculty member. And he's actually a good guy except for his personality problems. I mean, he's not evil or mean-spirited or anything - just self-serving.
regardless of whether he's "brilliant", why is he an administrator? he sounds completely incompetent for the job he has and yet is backed by the administration? i'd say this is unbelievable but this is how businesses and our governments are run now a days
I never really thought about it like this. He's the director of our program because 1) he started the program, and 2) he's the one with the medical skills and experience to direct the program. Management skills aren't really a consideration.
but it sounds like it should be, no? it seems like his lack of people skills is a detriment to the program...any chance you or someone can suggest to the higher ups that perhaps someone else handle the administration of the program and leave him to do what he is really good at?
regardless of whether he's "brilliant", why is he an administrator? he sounds completely incompetent for the job he has and yet is backed by the administration? i'd say this is unbelievable but this is how businesses and our governments are run now a days
I never really thought about it like this. He's the director of our program because 1) he started the program, and 2) he's the one with the medical skills and experience to direct the program. Management skills aren't really a consideration.
but it sounds like it should be, no? it seems like his lack of people skills is a detriment to the program...any chance you or someone can suggest to the higher ups that perhaps someone else handle the administration of the program and leave him to do what he is really good at?
Of course I think management skills are important! And the administration is well aware of how everyone feels. In a way, I'm the one who administrates the program - but everyone has a boss, ya know? If he weren't such a micro-manager and just took more of a back seat, it wouldn't be such an issue.
But it's a physician training program, so no one is qualified to be the director except the only physician here who has had the training that we are training the other physicians on - and that's him. (No one else would really want the job anyway.) He couldn't just be the clinical teacher while someone else decides how the program will be run because people without his skills and experience are not only not qualified to do the hands-on teaching; they're also not qualified to decide the curriculum that is required to train people to competency.
Plus, we're not only an educational program but a clinical program as well, so obviously the best doctor is the one who needs to be in charge of the clinical services. I'm not sure if I'm making sense. Basically, you wouldn't want to get a c-section from a doctor whose training program was directed by someone who didn't know how to do c-sections and you wouldn't want to get a c-section in a hospital whose maternity care services were run by someone who didn't know how to do c-sections, ya know?
And aside from being an educational & clinical program, we're a research program - and his name is the one that brings in the grant money and gets research published. Despite the fact that I administer all the grants & studies and he hardly even know what's going on with them, I can't get grant funding or be the principle investigator of a study because I'm not a faculty member.
It's complicated. :( I have to say though, except for the interpersonal skills, our program does great things under his direction, which is why I still want to be a part of it. He really is a leader in this field.
You're right, though, when you say his lack of people skills has been somewhat detrimental to the program. Most people who come to our fellowship, for instance, do so for the chance to work with him (so they probably wouldn't come if he weren't the director). But when they actually start working closely with him, every single one of them cracks, spends hours crying in my office, and seriously considers quitting. (Me & the senior fellows make bets about when the new one will crack.) But then, once they graduate and are out of the fire and can get a job anywhere and are making bank with the skills he taught them, they usually end up feeling like putting up with him was worth it (which is what I tell them to keep them from quitting - and then I get them drunk). Too bad I'm never going to be making bank for putting up with him.
they usually end up feeling like putting up with him was worth it (which is what I tell them to keep them from quitting - and then I get them drunk). Too bad I'm never going to be making bank for putting up with him.
awww
i totally get what you're saying...really my questions are more rhetorical than anything else
He's actually a pretty nice guy (when he's being a nice guy), he's just totally self-serving. So yes, he was "nice". But he still came into my office like 4 times and told me to stop what I was doing and immediately do whatever it was that was on his mind at the time. One of them was walking across campus on an errand for him, which is something our work-study employee should do - but she's out today and he decided this was urgent. One of them is a pretty big project, so not only did I not finish the big project I was planning to work on today, but I'm also going to have to come in this weekend to do the project that he suddenly decided was important. (Then next week he'll blame me for not getting the first project done. He already emailed me a little while ago asking when I'd have the first project done.) And then he made a comment - nicely though :roll: - that I need to be more organized so I can get projects done on time! I AM organized! He just won't leave me alone and let me do my job! :evil:
Also, when he emailed me recently blaming me for the schedule problems (with another faculty member copied), I replied and said he's got to be kidding because I did the schedules exactly as he told me too - and then I reminded him that he actually did one of the schedules himself. So he replied and said yes, he was kidding - but then said he had told me what he wanted it done differently but that he'll have to be more clear next time (meaning he's still saying I fucked up). Sure he'd told me he wanted it done differently. He told me about 15 different ways to do it. But ultimately he settled on the way I did it, so it's not like I misunderstood him or something. Then he called later and reiterated that he was just kidding in his original email. The other faculty member who was copied on the emails brought it up with me today, though, and she said he totally wasn't kidding and was very clearly trying to blame me. (That's another one of his tactics that he uses on her as well. He'll make some snide, accusatory comment and then put a smiley face after it so later if you call him on it he can say he was kidding and you're just overreacting.)
Ah... sorry for the details - but it's nice to get it out. I sure hope he's not a Pearl Jam fan! :shock:
they usually end up feeling like putting up with him was worth it (which is what I tell them to keep them from quitting - and then I get them drunk). Too bad I'm never going to be making bank for putting up with him.
awww
i totally get what you're saying...really my questions are more rhetorical than anything else
Yeah, maybe mine are too; I'm not sure I believe there really are any good solutions. Sometimes I feel like this job is supposed to be teaching me about how to deal with difficult people (which is another thing that sometimes keeps me from quitting). I'm not sure I'm learning anything though.
I've had a few bosses like him... they seem to be common in construction but it helps to be incredibly laid back. They would give me plenty of 'urgent' stuff to do, whilst I'm already doing 'urgent' stuff... but I just had to figure out myself which was the most urgent and prioritise that way. If they were making me do something first that I knew wasn't more urgent I would say something like 'that's no problem. I can do that right now but you realise that will set back that other thing I was doing'. I think it's often a man thing to be honest :oops: . Unfortunately the only ways to deal with it are for you to either become more assertive or to rat on him and go to the director... even maybe anonymously????
He's actually a pretty nice guy (when he's being a nice guy), he's just totally self-serving. So yes, he was "nice". But he still came into my office like 4 times and told me to stop what I was doing and immediately do whatever it was that was on his mind at the time. One of them was walking across campus on an errand for him, which is something our work-study employee should do - but she's out today and he decided this was urgent. One of them is a pretty big project, so not only did I not finish the big project I was planning to work on today, but I'm also going to have to come in this weekend to do the project that he suddenly decided was important. (Then next week he'll blame me for not getting the first project done. He already emailed me a little while ago asking when I'd have the first project done.) And then he made a comment - nicely though :roll: - that I need to be more organized so I can get projects done on time! I AM organized! He just won't leave me alone and let me do my job! :evil:
Also, when he emailed me recently blaming me for the schedule problems (with another faculty member copied), I replied and said he's got to be kidding because I did the schedules exactly as he told me too - and then I reminded him that he actually did one of the schedules himself. So he replied and said yes, he was kidding - but then said he had told me what he wanted it done differently but that he'll have to be more clear next time (meaning he's still saying I fucked up). Sure he'd told me he wanted it done differently. He told me about 15 different ways to do it. But ultimately he settled on the way I did it, so it's not like I misunderstood him or something. Then he called later and reiterated that he was just kidding in his original email. The other faculty member who was copied on the emails brought it up with me today, though, and she said he totally wasn't kidding and was very clearly trying to blame me. (That's another one of his tactics that he uses on her as well. He'll make some snide, accusatory comment and then put a smiley face after it so later if you call him on it he can say he was kidding and you're just overreacting.)
Ah... sorry for the details - but it's nice to get it out. I sure hope he's not a Pearl Jam fan! :shock:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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I've had a few bosses like him... they seem to be common in construction but it helps to be incredibly laid back. They would give me plenty of 'urgent' stuff to do, whilst I'm already doing 'urgent' stuff... but I just had to figure out myself which was the most urgent and prioritise that way. If they were making me do something first that I knew wasn't more urgent I would say something like 'that's no problem. I can do that right now but you realise that will set back that other thing I was doing'. I think it's often a man thing to be honest :oops: . Unfortunately the only ways to deal with it are for you to either become more assertive or to rat on him and go to the director... even maybe anonymously????
Yeah, I have the laid back part down. I just listen to whatever he's going on about and when he says he wants something by a certain time I tell him I'll try but I have to do x, y, & z first. Then later when he asks if I got his thing done I just say no. Probably not the best way to handle him, but I usually just want him to get out of my office, not have a big, unproductive conversation about it. I have gone to the director before and so have others. I don't, however, have the assertiveness thing down at all. By the time I decide something's worth getting assertive over, I'm usually upset and that's not good.
wow..are you sure we don't have the same boss? I dread going to work lately...I don't work right under her any more but she's such a control freak she overrides my supervisor. She's such a control freak..yet delegates most everything..
These cuts are leaving creases. Trace the scars to fit the pieces, to tell the story, you don't need to say a word.
Comments
Yes, I am. But I still get frustrated. :(
The Chair of our department was making him meet with her on a weekly basis to kind of mediate how he could work better with the rest of the department. (I wasn't supposed to know this.) I think it was helpful while it was happening, but it was obvious when it stopped.
I basically coordinate a specific program for a specific discipline at a university health sciences center.
Yes, I think he does have multiple issues, so I doubt that your ADHD is so screwy. Don't worry.
i will protect you from him.
it will be ok, promise.
next time he comes in here
im slapping him stupid with a chair upside the head
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
That's a great idea about the books! Thanks! Yes, you're not the first person to suggest borderline personality disorder.
I sometimes fear being fired for telling him how I feel and sometimes get bold when I remember that he can't really fire me because I work for the department and he's just my supervisor. But he can say he doesn't want me to coordinate the program he directs anymore, and I work here specifically to be part of this program. He would be stupid to do this because it would be a serious blow to the program if I left - especially if I didn't stay long enough to train my replacement - and deep down he must know that no one else would put up with his shit. But at the same time, he's the kind of guy who would "fire" someone because he can't take criticism, if that makes sense. I've seen him take this attitude with our fellows, who are also under him. He really does want us to be happy, whether it's for us or just so he can feel good about himself (or so our program doesn't get a bad reputation). So when each and every one of our fellows threatens to quit mid-fellowship, he'll sit down with them and ask what can be done to make them happy. He'll try to implement the changes (until they conflict with something he wants), but if the fellow remains unhappy (and talks to him or anyone else about it) he'll start telling me that he doesn't want to hear anything else about it and if they're not happy here they should just leave. None of them has actually quit yet - but that's because I do everything I can to get them to stay.
Now I'm starting to feel a little bit bad talking shit about him. :oops: He would be so hurt if he knew. And, like I said, he's not a horrible person or anything. He does a lot of great things for people, especially his patients, but sometimes including me.
Haha! Yes, please.
You sound like my office mate. She's in her 60s and from the Bronx. She's constantly threatening to knock him on his ass and give him a piece of her mind. One time he was in here giving me shit and she actually started to butt in and say "That's it! I'm going to tell him!" but I was able to get her to stop. He looked so confused.
See, that's one reason I can't quit this job. I have the best co-workers of all time ever!
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
i am an angel in every thread :twisted:
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
but it sounds like it should be, no? it seems like his lack of people skills is a detriment to the program...any chance you or someone can suggest to the higher ups that perhaps someone else handle the administration of the program and leave him to do what he is really good at?
Of course I think management skills are important! And the administration is well aware of how everyone feels. In a way, I'm the one who administrates the program - but everyone has a boss, ya know? If he weren't such a micro-manager and just took more of a back seat, it wouldn't be such an issue.
But it's a physician training program, so no one is qualified to be the director except the only physician here who has had the training that we are training the other physicians on - and that's him. (No one else would really want the job anyway.) He couldn't just be the clinical teacher while someone else decides how the program will be run because people without his skills and experience are not only not qualified to do the hands-on teaching; they're also not qualified to decide the curriculum that is required to train people to competency.
Plus, we're not only an educational program but a clinical program as well, so obviously the best doctor is the one who needs to be in charge of the clinical services. I'm not sure if I'm making sense. Basically, you wouldn't want to get a c-section from a doctor whose training program was directed by someone who didn't know how to do c-sections and you wouldn't want to get a c-section in a hospital whose maternity care services were run by someone who didn't know how to do c-sections, ya know?
And aside from being an educational & clinical program, we're a research program - and his name is the one that brings in the grant money and gets research published. Despite the fact that I administer all the grants & studies and he hardly even know what's going on with them, I can't get grant funding or be the principle investigator of a study because I'm not a faculty member.
It's complicated. :( I have to say though, except for the interpersonal skills, our program does great things under his direction, which is why I still want to be a part of it. He really is a leader in this field.
You're right, though, when you say his lack of people skills has been somewhat detrimental to the program. Most people who come to our fellowship, for instance, do so for the chance to work with him (so they probably wouldn't come if he weren't the director). But when they actually start working closely with him, every single one of them cracks, spends hours crying in my office, and seriously considers quitting. (Me & the senior fellows make bets about when the new one will crack.) But then, once they graduate and are out of the fire and can get a job anywhere and are making bank with the skills he taught them, they usually end up feeling like putting up with him was worth it (which is what I tell them to keep them from quitting - and then I get them drunk). Too bad I'm never going to be making bank for putting up with him.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
awww
i totally get what you're saying...really my questions are more rhetorical than anything else
He's actually a pretty nice guy (when he's being a nice guy), he's just totally self-serving. So yes, he was "nice". But he still came into my office like 4 times and told me to stop what I was doing and immediately do whatever it was that was on his mind at the time. One of them was walking across campus on an errand for him, which is something our work-study employee should do - but she's out today and he decided this was urgent. One of them is a pretty big project, so not only did I not finish the big project I was planning to work on today, but I'm also going to have to come in this weekend to do the project that he suddenly decided was important. (Then next week he'll blame me for not getting the first project done. He already emailed me a little while ago asking when I'd have the first project done.) And then he made a comment - nicely though :roll: - that I need to be more organized so I can get projects done on time! I AM organized! He just won't leave me alone and let me do my job! :evil:
Also, when he emailed me recently blaming me for the schedule problems (with another faculty member copied), I replied and said he's got to be kidding because I did the schedules exactly as he told me too - and then I reminded him that he actually did one of the schedules himself. So he replied and said yes, he was kidding - but then said he had told me what he wanted it done differently but that he'll have to be more clear next time (meaning he's still saying I fucked up). Sure he'd told me he wanted it done differently. He told me about 15 different ways to do it. But ultimately he settled on the way I did it, so it's not like I misunderstood him or something. Then he called later and reiterated that he was just kidding in his original email. The other faculty member who was copied on the emails brought it up with me today, though, and she said he totally wasn't kidding and was very clearly trying to blame me. (That's another one of his tactics that he uses on her as well. He'll make some snide, accusatory comment and then put a smiley face after it so later if you call him on it he can say he was kidding and you're just overreacting.)
Ah... sorry for the details - but it's nice to get it out.
Yeah, maybe mine are too; I'm not sure I believe there really are any good solutions. Sometimes I feel like this job is supposed to be teaching me about how to deal with difficult people (which is another thing that sometimes keeps me from quitting). I'm not sure I'm learning anything though.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
http://vimeo.com/14453246
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
Yeah, I have the laid back part down. I just listen to whatever he's going on about and when he says he wants something by a certain time I tell him I'll try but I have to do x, y, & z first. Then later when he asks if I got his thing done I just say no. Probably not the best way to handle him, but I usually just want him to get out of my office, not have a big, unproductive conversation about it. I have gone to the director before and so have others. I don't, however, have the assertiveness thing down at all. By the time I decide something's worth getting assertive over, I'm usually upset and that's not good.