shooting ourselves in the foot again....
Comments
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Godfather, I swear sometimes you just dont' want to believe anything bad about good ol' America. It's almost like a kid with his fingers in his ears going "nananananananananana, I'm not listening." I've heard stories you just wouldn't possibly accept about the atrocities of war committed by Americans, and I've heard it directly from the soldiers themselves. I work with with these people every day. My boss right next door here is a marine colonel that gets direct reports from Iraq and Afghanistan and shares these things with me (although he probably shouldn't). Shows me maps and satellite pics of military troop movement and how they surround certain towns and whatnot. Tells me stories... Your perception of things is very much one through rose tented lenses.
What's your take on the Tillman story? Just more of the media making a big deal out of things?Idaho's Premier Outdoor Writer
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gimmesometruth27 wrote:[the only reason karzi is negotiating with the taliban now is because he is afraid what happened tomohammed daoud khan might happen to him...
I don't care why he is doing it, I am just glad he is. Like I said, the more we get out the better it is for us in the long run. We need to re-think our membership in things like NATO as well.that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan0 -
eyedclaar wrote:Godfather, I swear sometimes you just dont' want to believe anything bad about good ol' America. It's almost like a kid with his fingers in his ears going "nananananananananana, I'm not listening." I've heard stories you just wouldn't possibly accept about the atrocities of war committed by Americans, and I've heard it directly from the soldiers themselves. I work with with these people every day. My boss right next door here is a marine colonel that gets direct reports from Iraq and Afghanistan and shares these things with me (although he probably shouldn't). Shows me maps and satellite pics of military troop movement and how they surround certain towns and whatnot. Tells me stories... Your perception of things is very much one through rose tented lenses.
What's your take on the Tillman story? Just more of the media making a big deal out of things?
no.. your right I believe that the US has done some pretty bad stuff there is doubt but we are not the only ones
doing it and breaks my heart,
it also breaks my heart to read or listen to people talk so negatively about our country,as imperfect as it may be we live in the greatest country in the world,it affords us freedoms we can't get in to many other country's.
I don't know too much about the Tillman story yet.
Godfather.0 -
go see the tillman movie and get back to me...Godfather. wrote:eyedclaar wrote:Godfather, I swear sometimes you just dont' want to believe anything bad about good ol' America. It's almost like a kid with his fingers in his ears going "nananananananananana, I'm not listening." I've heard stories you just wouldn't possibly accept about the atrocities of war committed by Americans, and I've heard it directly from the soldiers themselves. I work with with these people every day. My boss right next door here is a marine colonel that gets direct reports from Iraq and Afghanistan and shares these things with me (although he probably shouldn't). Shows me maps and satellite pics of military troop movement and how they surround certain towns and whatnot. Tells me stories... Your perception of things is very much one through rose tented lenses.
What's your take on the Tillman story? Just more of the media making a big deal out of things?
no.. your right I believe that the US has done some pretty bad stuff there is doubt but we are not the only ones
doing it and breaks my heart,
it also breaks my heart to read or listen to people talk so negatively about our country,as imperfect as it may be we live in the greatest country in the world,it affords us freedoms we can't get in to many other country's.
I don't know too much about the Tillman story yet.
Godfather."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
did you even read the links i provided? especially the ninemsn one shows how all of the things that have happened at the border crossing the last several days are in direct response to us killing those pakistanis.
i think you get some sort of amusement by being a contrarian and derailing threads...you have made no reference to the facts in the case, or the articles posted, rather you divert attention and blame the media and ignore the facts because you don't trust the media...and you use anecdotal evidence from a relative that obviously was not there when that attack and subsequent border closing occurred..
like a poster above said, it is a good story up until pesky facts get in the way...or something like that...
and yes, i have been interviewed on tv when my band played a benefit for hurricane katrina victims where we raised about 10 grand and donated it to the red cross. i was interviewed backstage for about 15 minutes and they put a 20 second snippet of me on tv. how can you cram entire interviews into a 30 minute news program? things have to be edited due to time constraints, and they try to take the best and most relevent part and use that. if this was a 24 hour news show like fox news, there is no reason why they could not show more of an intherview....Godfather. wrote:TriumphantAngel wrote:
sometimes i find it really hard to work out what point you are trying to make. this is one of those times.Godfather. wrote:what do you know about the facts..really ?
something you saw about the government or military on a google search ?
or on the news ? come on man think for your self and ask your self why.
Godfather.
what do you mean by ask yourself why? i don't get it? what are you actually referring to?
no disrespect meant.
after talking with Friends and family learning what the media says and what really happens I have to ask my self why because what the media reports doesn't make any sense and makes these said actions sound out of control
and why would anybody do such things ?, I'm not trying to discredit anybodies post here but it just makes me think what is really going on and why (about news reports) , it's hard for me to trust the media.. have you ever been interviewed by a t.v station and when you got home and watched it they have chopped it up and distorted the meaning of your statement, odd as something as trivial as that always made me wonder what else do they do on a real significant story to keep the viewers and readers following a story.
Godfather."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
i understand now what you are trying to say.Godfather. wrote:eyedclaar wrote:Godfather, I swear sometimes you just dont' want to believe anything bad about good ol' America. It's almost like a kid with his fingers in his ears going "nananananananananana, I'm not listening." I've heard stories you just wouldn't possibly accept about the atrocities of war committed by Americans, and I've heard it directly from the soldiers themselves. I work with with these people every day. My boss right next door here is a marine colonel that gets direct reports from Iraq and Afghanistan and shares these things with me (although he probably shouldn't). Shows me maps and satellite pics of military troop movement and how they surround certain towns and whatnot. Tells me stories... Your perception of things is very much one through rose tented lenses.
What's your take on the Tillman story? Just more of the media making a big deal out of things?
no.. your right I believe that the US has done some pretty bad stuff there is doubt but we are not the only ones
doing it and breaks my heart,
it also breaks my heart to read or listen to people talk so negatively about our country,as imperfect as it may be we live in the greatest country in the world,it affords us freedoms we can't get in to many other country's.
I don't know too much about the Tillman story yet.
Godfather.
you have to understand that people don't talk negatively just because they can.
there's nothing wrong with saying i love my country because of *this* *this* and *this* and you should be proud to speak out about the good things.
there's also nothing wrong with saying but i wish they could do *this* *this* and *this* so much better, and speak out when they don't.
otherwise you are settling for second best and making compromises that you don't need to, and that's just not good enough. people have to be held accountable for their actions and know that you feel it's wrong.0 -
TriumphantAngel wrote:
i understand now what you are trying to say.Godfather. wrote:eyedclaar wrote:Godfather, I swear sometimes you just dont' want to believe anything bad about good ol' America. It's almost like a kid with his fingers in his ears going "nananananananananana, I'm not listening." I've heard stories you just wouldn't possibly accept about the atrocities of war committed by Americans, and I've heard it directly from the soldiers themselves. I work with with these people every day. My boss right next door here is a marine colonel that gets direct reports from Iraq and Afghanistan and shares these things with me (although he probably shouldn't). Shows me maps and satellite pics of military troop movement and how they surround certain towns and whatnot. Tells me stories... Your perception of things is very much one through rose tented lenses.
What's your take on the Tillman story? Just more of the media making a big deal out of things?
no.. your right I believe that the US has done some pretty bad stuff there is doubt but we are not the only ones
doing it and breaks my heart,
it also breaks my heart to read or listen to people talk so negatively about our country,as imperfect as it may be we live in the greatest country in the world,it affords us freedoms we can't get in to many other country's.
I don't know too much about the Tillman story yet.
Godfather.
you have to understand that people don't talk negatively just because they can.
there's nothing wrong with saying i love my country because of *this* *this* and *this* and you should be proud to speak out about the good things.
there's also nothing wrong with saying but i wish they could do *this* *this* and *this* so much better, and speak out when they don't.
otherwise you are settling for second best and making compromises that you don't need to, and that's just not good enough. people have to be held accountable for their actions and know that you feel it's wrong.
your right T/A thank you for the reply.
Godfather.0 -
you shouldn't trust the media, but not for the reasons suggested in this thread.
media is an arm of the state. it serves the corporations that own it and the federal government. and i can prove that.
there is a check on it tho -the internet. if they stop reporting the facts, at some point people will look elsewhere for their news, to the bbc, to name one.
if there is any doubt as to the medi'as intention, look at their reaction leading up to the invasion of iraq. something like 1% of guests interviewed in the 3 months leading up to the iraq war actually opposed the war. that is criminal
we were lied into a war and thousands, tens of thousands of innocent people have been killed due to that negligence, that obedience.
today, if they were truly a free press, we would have stories about the victims, as they did with 9.11 victims, where page after page was spent humanizing the dead. 9.11 has happened in afghanistan, in iraq, on scales that are hard to calculate, dozens of 9.11s at the least. yet the media pays the victims no mind.
because they aren't about to show their masters in a negative light. they are obedient, scum. you talk about thinking for yourself, yeah, good idea, but these lapdogs, it is their job to report the truth, and they are obedient, human garbage.
you are right not to trust the media, but your reasons are all wrong.
not to derail the thread.......
attacking the pakistanis was inevitable, these accidents they are always so sorry are inevitable, as such they cannot truly be called accidents. it like when israel drops bombs on gaza, and calls the cifvilian casualties "collateral" because they were aiming for fighters. well, going into that war, they know there are going to be innocent casualties, they are inevitable. as such, it is inaccurate to call them accidents, they are inevitablities, on a moral scale right there with the suicide bombers.0 -
and it gets even better as time goes on...more tankers attacked and destroyed....
Gunmen in Pakistan torch nearly 30 NATO fuel tankers
Attacks continue as Khyber Pass border crossing remains closed
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39587242/ns ... tral_asia/
QUETTA, Pakistan — Gunmen in southwestern Pakistan set fire to nearly 30 tankers carrying fuel for NATO troops in Afghanistan on Saturday, an official said.
The attack came two days after the United States apologized to Pakistan for an air raid that killed two Pakistani soldiers and which led Pakistan to close the famous Khyber Pass border crossing.
Suspected Islamist militants have stepped up attacks on convoys carrying supplies for NATO forces since the Sept. 30 NATO air strike in northwestern Pakistan, which was described by the U.S. ambassador as a terrible accident.
About 20 gunmen set fire to around 30 tankers parked outside at a roadside restaurant near the southwestern town of Sibi, about 120 miles east of Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan province, in a pre-dawn attack, the official said.
The tankers were on their way to the border town of Chaman, where the crossing remains open.
"The attackers first fired shots and then fired small rockets at the tankers. Twenty-eight to 29 tankers caught fire," local government official Naeem Sherwani told Reuters. He said one of the paramilitary soldiers escorting the convoy was wounded.
"We are facing problems in extinguishing the fire," another official, Abdul Mateen, said.
Tankers targeted
Since Pakistan shuttered the border at Torkham, there have been several attacks on supply convoys, including two in which militants torched 70 fuel tankers and killed a driver.
The Pakistani Taliban have claimed responsibility for such previous attacks and have demanded that the government permanently bar NATO and the U.S. from using its soil to transport supplies to Afghanistan.
The U.S.-backed Pakistani government is battling Taliban insurgents who remain effective despite military crackdowns on their strongholds in the northwest near the Afghan border.
The U.S. apology for the Sept. 30 cross-border raid had raised the hopes that Pakistan would reopen a vital supply route in the northwest for coalition forces which Islamabad shut after the NATO strike, citing security reasons.
The supply route passing through southwestern Pakistan and Chaman has remained open.
Pakistan's foreign ministry said after the U.S. apology that security was being evaluated and a decision on reopening the supply route through the famous Khyber Pass would be taken "in due course," but also emphasized Washington and Islamabad were "allies in the fight against militancy."
Trucking routes through Pakistan bring in around 40 percent of supplies for NATO forces in Afghanistan, according to the United States Transportation Command. Of the remainder, 40 percent come through Afghanistan's neighbors in the north and 20 percent by air.
The United States has been pressing Pakistan to take a harder line against militants launching cross-border attacks from their Pakistani safe havens on Western forces in Afghanistan.
An alleged al-Qaida plot to attack European targets has put Pakistan's performance against militants under further scrutiny.
The United States has also stepped up missile strikes against al-Qaida and Taliban militants by pilot-less drones in Pakistan's lawless northwestern border regions in recent weeks.
On Friday night, at least five militants were killed in the latest such strike in the North Waziristan tribal region.
Militants set fire to nearly 30 tankers in Baluchistan Province Saturday, a day after truck driver Haji Kareem Jan saw his vehicle set ablaze on the GT road in Nowshera in Pakistan's Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Province."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
the same could be said for yourself. You always seem to have somthing negative to say about us military/ government regardless. your quite within your rights to do so. but then dont turn on somebody for the same right.gimmesometruth27 wrote:
this happened and it is a fact. and it is inexcusable. google it, there are many media outlets covering it.Godfather. wrote:I'm not trying to debunk this story, I was talking to my niece over the weekend who is a Marine as is her Husband who is in Afghanistan, we were talking about media coverage and the war and I won't tell you the whole conversation but the bottom line on most stuff we read about the war is not the whole story or not the story at all, the Media loves a good drama sometimes.
Godfather.
please don't disagree for the sake of being a contrarian. you seem to do that in my threads a lot lately. present credible evidence that it didn't happen, not anecdotal evidence from a marine who was not there...
DO you always ensure your facts are ligit?/?AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE0 -
ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
the same could be said for yourself. You always seem to have somthing negative to say about us military/ government regardless. your quite within your rights to do so. but then dont turn on somebody for the same right.gimmesometruth27 wrote:
this happened and it is a fact. and it is inexcusable. google it, there are many media outlets covering it.Godfather. wrote:I'm not trying to debunk this story, I was talking to my niece over the weekend who is a Marine as is her Husband who is in Afghanistan, we were talking about media coverage and the war and I won't tell you the whole conversation but the bottom line on most stuff we read about the war is not the whole story or not the story at all, the Media loves a good drama sometimes.
Godfather.
please don't disagree for the sake of being a contrarian. you seem to do that in my threads a lot lately. present credible evidence that it didn't happen, not anecdotal evidence from a marine who was not there...
DO you always ensure your facts are ligit?/?
as far as me criticizing the us military, if this war was necessary and we were fighting to win it i would possibly not criticize it as much. but when we have been there for 10 years and wasted trillions of dollars and thousands of lives while we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot every other week, that military DESERVES every ounce of criticism they receive. would a surgeon still have a license if he made fatal errors every other week? no. would a district attorney still have a job if he was caught constantly trying innocent people only for the sake of getting a conviction and closing the case?? no, he would be disbarred like mike nifong in north carolina... so why should the military get a pass when they fuck up??? but that is another thread altogether...
ok yeah i am making all of this up, and so is the media :roll: :roll: :roll:
godfather tried to derail the thread implying that through his conversations with his neice that this is not the actual story, rather it was made up by the media...i am sorry, but anecdotal evidence from the relative of one marine who was not there is not as credible to me or the rest of the world when many media outlets across the world are reporting on it...the international media said there were no WMDS in iraq in the lead up to the war, while the us leadership and the majority of it's media said there was. i believed the international media, and who was right???
wow how easy it is for you to attack me on this when in the thread about soldiers who are objecting to the war and seeking refuge in canada, you provided no links, only your opinion of those "pussies".... where were the "facts" to support your position that "if you sign your name you honor your commmitment or you are a pussy"??? that was never ever writtin in any of the articles posted in that thread, it was your opinion. and i ask you the same question as i asked godfather, if it didn't happen, simply post a link suggesting that it didn't...i have posted 4 or 5 links to legitimate news sources from all over the world in this thread, are all of them making it up???? and can you provide evidence that these things did not occur? if they did not occur, then why is the border crossing still closed and why are supply convoys still being attacked and destroyed???
you were a soldier, you should understand that it is of paramount importance to the mission of the US and the UN to finish the job there, and how can they do that when the main crossing through which 40% of all of the mission supplies pass is blocked????
i will be waiting for your links to dispute that the us killed pakistani soldiers and that the border crossing is not closed for that, but for some other reason..."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
:thumbup: no argument there, thanks for the kind response I also will try to respond in a kinder way in the future.TriumphantAngel wrote:
i understand now what you are trying to say.Godfather. wrote:eyedclaar wrote:Godfather, I swear sometimes you just dont' want to believe anything bad about good ol' America. It's almost like a kid with his fingers in his ears going "nananananananananana, I'm not listening." I've heard stories you just wouldn't possibly accept about the atrocities of war committed by Americans, and I've heard it directly from the soldiers themselves. I work with with these people every day. My boss right next door here is a marine colonel that gets direct reports from Iraq and Afghanistan and shares these things with me (although he probably shouldn't). Shows me maps and satellite pics of military troop movement and how they surround certain towns and whatnot. Tells me stories... Your perception of things is very much one through rose tented lenses.
What's your take on the Tillman story? Just more of the media making a big deal out of things?
no.. your right I believe that the US has done some pretty bad stuff there is doubt but we are not the only ones
doing it and breaks my heart,
it also breaks my heart to read or listen to people talk so negatively about our country,as imperfect as it may be we live in the greatest country in the world,it affords us freedoms we can't get in to many other country's.
I don't know too much about the Tillman story yet.
Godfather.
you have to understand that people don't talk negatively just because they can.
there's nothing wrong with saying i love my country because of *this* *this* and *this* and you should be proud to speak out about the good things.
there's also nothing wrong with saying but i wish they could do *this* *this* and *this* so much better, and speak out when they don't.
otherwise you are settling for second best and making compromises that you don't need to, and that's just not good enough. people have to be held accountable for their actions and know that you feel it's wrong.
Godfather.0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
this happened and it is a fact. and it is inexcusable. google it, there are many media outlets covering it.Godfather. wrote:I'm not trying to debunk this story, I was talking to my niece over the weekend who is a Marine as is her Husband who is in Afghanistan, we were talking about media coverage and the war and I won't tell you the whole conversation but the bottom line on most stuff we read about the war is not the whole story or not the story at all, the Media loves a good drama sometimes.
Godfather.
please don't disagree for the sake of being a contrarian. you seem to do that in my threads a lot lately. present credible evidence that it didn't happen, not anecdotal evidence from a marine who was not there...
here is my OP and your reply please re read it, I diden't say it did not happen and maybe I should have been more clear, my question to all these things is why ?...could something like this or another incident be a retaliation for something like the solders that left their compound and were found dead and headless...I don't know but before I make a judgment call on a war situation I think to myself why ??...there have been so many horrible thing done by both sides that it's turned into a very horrible mess and finger pointing and guess's as to whats happening by the media only fuel the fire. I stand behind my country and yes if wrong is done I would like to see it corrected just as I would like to see the wrong committed against the US corrected.there is a guy on here that was or is a reporter, I would sure like to hear his take on this.
Godfather.0 -
fact is Paskistan's not really an ally in this war, and neither is it treated like an ally... allies are countries like the UK ...we're in this war because the only choice we were given was that of either gettin involved , or gettin bombed ourselves, like Iraq / Afghanistan and the rest...
and I''m not gonna say shit like this situation, and the soldiers' deaths n all, is not fair .... cuz that shit's naive and this is war and politics and war and politics are always dirty ... always...and this is just the way it is.... but like polaris x said, we should be clear on why wars are fought... certainly not for the sake of freedom or democracy.... the world's in a mess.... and it's all ugly0 -
Pakistan to reopen border crossing used by NATO
Associated Press
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101009/ap_ ... s_pakistan
ISLAMABAD – Pakistan said Saturday it will reopen a key border crossing and allow convoys to resume delivering supplies to NATO troops in Afghanistan, ending a 10-day blockade during which trucks were stranded on their way to the border and almost 150 were destroyed by attackers.
Pakistan closed the northwest crossing at Torkham on Sept. 30 in an apparent protest over a NATO helicopter incursion that killed two of its soldiers on the border.
Since the closure there have been almost daily attacks on the scores of trucks stranded on their way to Torkham from the port city of Karachi, and on those bottlenecked on the roads to a smaller crossing at Chaman in the southwest that has remained open.
Just hours before the announcement of the reopening, gunmen armed with a rocket attacked 29 tankers carrying NATO fuel supplies which had been stopped outside a roadside restaurant in southwestern Pakistan, setting them ablaze, local government official Abdul Mateen said.
It was unclear who was behind the latest attack, but the Pakistani Taliban have claimed responsibility for similar assaults on NATO supplies.
Pakistan is a key supply route for fuel, military vehicles, spare parts, clothing and other non-lethal supplies for foreign troops in landlocked Afghanistan.
Though the U.S. has said the Torkham closure has not affected its ability to keep troops supplied, the blockade raised tensions with Pakistan, with which Washington has a close but often troubled alliance in the fight against militants. It also came just as the U.S. was stepping up its shadow war on militants harbored in Pakistan's border regions.
The U.S. accuses Pakistan of being unwilling to go after Afghan Taliban militants in its territory with whom it has strong historical ties and who generally focus their attacks on Western troops.
The U.S. has dramatically increased the number of CIA drone strikes in Pakistan's tribal belt, including two late Friday in North Waziristan that killed nine suspected militants — the seventh and eighth missile strikes this month.
In September, the U.S. is believed to have launched at least 21 such attacks, an unprecedented number and nearly all in North Waziristan. The U.S. rarely acknowledges the covert missile strike program. Pakistan officially opposes the program, but is believed to secretly support it.
The U.S. on Wednesday apologized for the helicopter strike that prompted the blockade after an investigation concluded the "tragic event could have been avoided with better coalition force coordination with the Pakistan military." Pakistan's Foreign Office then announced Saturday it had decided to reopen the crossing "with immediate effect."
The border is normally closed on Sundays, so Monday appeared to be the soonest the flow of supplies over the crossing would resume, said U.S. Embassy spokesman Richard Snelsire, who welcomed what he called a "positive development."
NATO headquarters in Kabul had no immediate comment.
The U.S. and NATO at one point sent some 80 percent of their non-lethal supplies through Pakistan into Afghanistan, but have been steadily reducing that amount, instead using Central Asian routes to the north and other means. About 40 percent of supplies now come through Pakistan, 40 percent through the Central Asian routes, and 20 percent by air, according to the U.S. Embassy.
Perhaps worst affected by the Torkham closure were the truckers and Pakistani trucking companies, who are not paid until delivery and were regularly attacked while waiting for the crossing to be reopened. Some 2,500 to 3,000 trucks bringing supplies to U.S. or other NATO troops are on Pakistan's roads at any given time.
"This business is getting so dangerous — the recent happenings have made us think about not working for NATO because we can't put our lives in constant danger," said 37-year-old trucker Shaukat Khan, who has been sitting at the Torkham crossing since the day it was closed.
"We are glad to know that the Pakistani authorities have decided to reopen the crossing."
Gen. Zaman Mamozia, Afghan border commander for the eastern region where the convoys come into the country, said the opening of Torkham was important there as well.
"People in this region are busy and depend on these convoys," Mamozia said. "There are lots of drivers from supply trucks who are from eastern Afghanistan and lots of people work loading and unloading the goods. They will get their jobs back."
___
Associated Press writers Munir Ahmed and Nahal Toosi in Islamabad, Riaz Khan in Peshawar, Abdul Sattar in Quetta, and Rahim Faiez in Kabul, Afghanistan, contributed to this report."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
everyone here, respectfully you do realize that all the "proof" and debate in the world are not going to change the opinions of others to suit your own, right? That is a given.
When it comes to patriotism, right or wrong, some idealists want to believe their government and those responsible for telling us "the truth" can do no wrong,
While others, realists, or not, want to get at the bottom of this so-called TRUTH.
thing is, as mentioned before, in this world of overload, half-truths, partial truths, and outright lies, government sponsored media (no matter how independent they think they are), the TRUTH is so subjective as to be moot in debate.
These many media-Links, photos, reports by word of mouth, even being there yourself, are not reliable indicators of the WHOLE Truth....eyewitnesses to events, civil or military are never 100% reliable, just ask anyone who's witnessed a simple traffic accident. Incidents that occur a world away (it seems) whether witnessed by civilians, military, the press, and related by residents, observers or perpetrators, and reported by any or all of these "witnesses"...are even more difficult to realize the actual truths in. Everyone has an agenda, whether internalized subconsciously or realized outwardly, and that agenda, that perception, colors all that we see and hear.
Believe it.
So, in the end, everyone has the correct answer, the correct opinion (if there is such a thing) and has made the correct observation, from their own perception of that particular truth.
No one is right
No one is wrong
There is no clear view
No one sees through
In the end
Our world is perceived through colored lenses...
This is true
For
All of uspeace,
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~0 -
StillHere wrote:everyone here, respectfully you do realize that all the "proof" and debate in the world are not going to change the opinions of others to suit your own, right? That is a given.
When it comes to patriotism, right or wrong, some idealists want to believe their government and those responsible for telling us "the truth" can do no wrong,
While others, realists, or not, want to get at the bottom of this so-called TRUTH.
thing is, as mentioned before, in this world of overload, half-truths, partial truths, and outright lies, government sponsored media (no matter how independent they think they are), the TRUTH is so subjective as to be moot in debate.
These many media-Links, photos, reports by word of mouth, even being there yourself, are not reliable indicators of the WHOLE Truth....eyewitnesses to events, civil or military are never 100% reliable, just ask anyone who's witnessed a simple traffic accident. Incidents that occur a world away (it seems) whether witnessed by civilians, military, the press, and related by residents, observers or perpetrators, and reported by any or all of these "witnesses"...are even more difficult to realize the actual truths in. Everyone has an agenda, whether internalized subconsciously or realized outwardly, and that agenda, that perception, colors all that we see and hear.
Believe it.
So, in the end, everyone has the correct answer, the correct opinion (if there is such a thing) and has made the correct observation, from their own perception of that particular truth.
No one is right
No one is wrong
There is no clear view
No one sees through
In the end
Our world is perceived through colored lenses...
This is true
For
All of us
you are always our voice of reason, you rock !
Godfather.0 -
Godfather. wrote:StillHere wrote:everyone here, respectfully you do realize that all the "proof" and debate in the world are not going to change the opinions of others to suit your own, right? That is a given.
When it comes to patriotism, right or wrong, some idealists want to believe their government and those responsible for telling us "the truth" can do no wrong,
While others, realists, or not, want to get at the bottom of this so-called TRUTH.
thing is, as mentioned before, in this world of overload, half-truths, partial truths, and outright lies, government sponsored media (no matter how independent they think they are), the TRUTH is so subjective as to be moot in debate.
These many media-Links, photos, reports by word of mouth, even being there yourself, are not reliable indicators of the WHOLE Truth....eyewitnesses to events, civil or military are never 100% reliable, just ask anyone who's witnessed a simple traffic accident. Incidents that occur a world away (it seems) whether witnessed by civilians, military, the press, and related by residents, observers or perpetrators, and reported by any or all of these "witnesses"...are even more difficult to realize the actual truths in. Everyone has an agenda, whether internalized subconsciously or realized outwardly, and that agenda, that perception, colors all that we see and hear.
Believe it.
So, in the end, everyone has the correct answer, the correct opinion (if there is such a thing) and has made the correct observation, from their own perception of that particular truth.
No one is right
No one is wrong
There is no clear view
No one sees through
In the end
Our world is perceived through colored lenses...
This is true
For
All of us
you are always our voice of reason, you rock !
Godfather.
why thank you
peace,
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~0 -
at least we apologized...does anyone remember when the military shot down an iranian civilian airliner under reagan and vp bush said he refused to ever apologize for the us military? they even gave them fucking medals for it!! how can you accept a medal for shooting down a bunch of innocent people?don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
Pepe Silvia wrote:at least we apologized...does anyone remember when the military shot down an iranian civilian airliner under reagan and vp bush said he refused to ever apologize for the us military? they even gave them fucking medals for it!! how can you accept a medal for shooting down a bunch of innocent people?
yep...see?
and that's not the only time.
no time to elaborate now...will be back later...but look it up if u don't recall before i get back.peace,
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~0
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