do humans have value?

1…5681011

Comments

  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Statically perhaps you are correct, but things like war, famine, poverty, curable diseases and sickness, environmental damage which has human repercussions and the many other areas of human civilization which we deem acceptable are all forms in which we tolerate to better a percentage of us and leave the rest behind. So as far as emotions and in general the human care for it's fellow man, it's not too high on the scale of "value" and "morality". We simply accept these things as normal practice and life and don't take them for what they are, selfishness, greed and inhumane practices tolerated by humans which are justified in our minds, but not so much in the big picture.
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    puremagic wrote:
    You said "Animals don’t value life because they have no concept of what it means to value life.” Yet, humans, who supposedly understand the concept of life, kill humans and animals for the sole purpose of killing. Not out of the need for survival, but for the simple instinctive pleasure of the hunt and kill.

    However, This is a misleading angle to take. What is the percentage of people who murder people out of the near 7 billion people on our planet? maybe .005%
    As was stated a few pages back, chimpanzes murder each other. Some Ants murder just to murder. In additoin, humans are also able to feel jealousy, hate, anger, love, digust, curiosity, desire, disaapointment, lust, rage, remorse, shame, etc... I wonder how many of these most animals feel? I think we are doing pretty good as a race to have to deal with all that.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    puremagic wrote:
    What you see as bashing is your failure to understand you have inserted your moral values to conclude that your right to survive should be placed above everything on this planet, including the planet itself. Is it your nature to play God!!!

    oh the irony.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    tonifig8 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:

    Godfather,
    what does your bible teach you?

    read it and find out brother, I am not a perfect person by any means but I have accepted God into my heart and I try to be the best person that I can be, I pray almost every day and ask questions and most times with God in your heart you'll find answers aside from that it's the best history book in the world, but if you ask just to stirr up crap please don't, what is your faith ?

    Godfather.

    I believe Jesus Christ died for our sins .... Your far from perfect....
    I just don't understand people like you .. people like unsung...or Ariel... How can you and I be Christians yet be so different....... If you really love God, then why don't you allow him in your life .... pray for knowledge, for peace, strength, for your common man, etc..etc... I have very conservative relatives and I don't understand them either....we both love the same God, but one takes extreme positions and the other asks himself what would Jesus do? If you do read the bible and believe Jesus to be your savior ask yourself that question when making judgments or taking positions.... Don't put your country or anything before God....put your brothers/sisters and God before anything....make that sacrifice and you should be able to figure out right from wrong.... There is more to life then right and left...

    Reminds me of two of my favorite bumper stickers:

    WWJB? (Who would Jesus bomb?)

    When God said love your enemies, I don't think he meant kill them.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Statically perhaps you are correct, but things like war, famine, poverty, curable diseases and sickness, environmental damage which has human repercussions and the many other areas of human civilization which we deem acceptable are all forms in which we tolerate to better a percentage of us and leave the rest behind. So as far as emotions and in general the human care for it's fellow man, it's not too high on the scale of "value" and "morality". We simply accept these things as normal practice and life and don't take them for what they are, selfishness, greed and inhumane practices tolerated by humans which are justified in our minds, but not so much in the big picture.
    It seems as if you don't understand that what you listed is part of our nature. Are you saying since we arent perfect that we don't value life? If anything alot of the things you listed are bad because they are not viewed as civilized behavior but as primitive, you need to get the idea out of your head that animals deal with the same issues as human yet choose to be more humane. We do value life, Humans save lives everyday, weather it be humans or animals.
  • Boxes&Books
    Boxes&Books USA Posts: 2,672
    scb wrote:

    Reminds me of two of my favorite bumper stickers:

    WWJB? (Who would Jesus bomb?)

    When God said love your enemies, I don't think he meant kill them.


    Never seen the sticker, but I have heard of similar statements.
    I wonder who he would bomb first..... Something tells me he wouldn't be to happy with the USA... I am sure he wouldn't be happy with with a lot of other Big Governments/Businesses
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    I believe human intelligence (nature) brings about selfishness. Selfishness is seen these days as a derogatory characteristic. But selfishness is essentially anything that benefits the individual...and selfishness is the source of survival. Selfishness can be taken to extremes (when "wants" begin to be confused for "needs") and ultimately an individual can want something bad enough that they believe they need it to survive...which can end in killing.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    HeidiJam wrote:
    I believe human intelligence (nature) brings about selfishness. Selfishness is seen these days as a derogatory characteristic. But selfishness is essentially anything that benefits the individual...and selfishness is the source of survival. Selfishness can be taken to extremes (when "wants" begin to be confused for "needs") and ultimately an individual can want something bad enough that they believe they need it to survive...which can end in killing.

    orang utans display selfishness too. theyre not ones for sharing...
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    In general terms, humans do things for their own best interest, nothing noble or triumphant. Everything in our world revolves around money and thy self. If our own self-interest happens to coincide with helping the greater good, things happen in that way, and if they don't we don't blink a second. To paint humanity in any other light is merely patting mankind on the back for your own self-worth. And of course, no one or thing is perfect, but you seem to vastly ignore all the things humans do to each other in awful ways whether physically, mentally, emotionally or politically, socially or economically. That's the reality of our world and mankind. We don't invade countries to free people, we don't have mass production of food and medicine cause we're healing the world.. we do these things for our own greed and self-interest and to portray it any other way is mere delusion.
    HeidiJam wrote:
    It seems as if you don't understand that what you listed is part of our nature. Are you saying since we arent perfect that we don't value life? If anything alot of the things you listed are bad because they are not viewed as civilized behavior but as primitive, you need to get the idea out of your head that animals deal with the same issues as human yet choose to be more humane. We do value life, Humans save lives everyday, weather it be humans or animals.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    If intelligence brings about selfishness, and humans are intelligent beings, what does that mean....human nature is to be selfish. And being selfish does not equate to survival in the modern era of life in any regard. Being selfish isn't a good trait in any species and we're the only one's who do it in these type of terms.
    HeidiJam wrote:
    I believe human intelligence (nature) brings about selfishness. Selfishness is seen these days as a derogatory characteristic. But selfishness is essentially anything that benefits the individual...and selfishness is the source of survival. Selfishness can be taken to extremes (when "wants" begin to be confused for "needs") and ultimately an individual can want something bad enough that they believe they need it to survive...which can end in killing.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    HeidiJam wrote:
    scb wrote:
    You act like we have to either destroy the whole ecosystem or never use any resources at all. I think the whole point is that we should at least do our very best to use resources in the most balanced, sustainable way possible. Do you think we're already doing this?
    Im not the one overreacting about every little thing a human does and generalizing the whole race as not valuing life... I don't think that previously we understood the harful effects that we put on the ecosystem, Now we understand these harmful effects and I think we are doing our best in using resources. I work in the construction industry and i rarley ever build stick built (wood) buildings anymore, its all alumnium studs. So there is a conscience effort, changes don't happen overnight. Why is it perfectly fine for animals to do what they can to survive yet humans get ridiculed for doing what we do to survive? We are not primitive anymore, so quit expecting us to live primitive. You should feel lucky that you are able to see your kids grow and your grandchildren grow without having to worry about where your next meal is.

    I don't think anyone's overreacting.

    I think we have understood the harmful effects of our actions on the ecosystem and on each other for a very long time and yet continue those actions.

    I don't think we are really doing our best in using resources.

    Change doesn't happen overnight, but we have had ample time to make greater changes than we have made.

    Humans are ridiculed because much of what they are doing is NOT needed to survive.

    No one is expecting us to live primitively.

    I don't have kids or grandchildren. If I did, I'd be even more pissed about the mess we're leaving for them.

    I think the majority of the kids and grandkids on this planet DO have to worry about where their next meal is coming from. And I think it's shameful that with all our resources and intelligence and technology we allow this to happen unnecessarily - and it's quite telling that we fail to even acknowledge it. (And by "we" I mean "you'.)
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    HeidiJam wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Statically perhaps you are correct, but things like war, famine, poverty, curable diseases and sickness, environmental damage which has human repercussions and the many other areas of human civilization which we deem acceptable are all forms in which we tolerate to better a percentage of us and leave the rest behind. So as far as emotions and in general the human care for it's fellow man, it's not too high on the scale of "value" and "morality". We simply accept these things as normal practice and life and don't take them for what they are, selfishness, greed and inhumane practices tolerated by humans which are justified in our minds, but not so much in the big picture.
    It seems as if you don't understand that what you listed is part of our nature.

    Is there anything we do or could do that you wouldn't claim is just part of our nature?
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    scb wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Statically perhaps you are correct, but things like war, famine, poverty, curable diseases and sickness, environmental damage which has human repercussions and the many other areas of human civilization which we deem acceptable are all forms in which we tolerate to better a percentage of us and leave the rest behind. So as far as emotions and in general the human care for it's fellow man, it's not too high on the scale of "value" and "morality". We simply accept these things as normal practice and life and don't take them for what they are, selfishness, greed and inhumane practices tolerated by humans which are justified in our minds, but not so much in the big picture.
    It seems as if you don't understand that what you listed is part of our nature.

    Is there anything we do or could do that you wouldn't claim is just part of our nature?

    i think perhaps we should have said in our culture, humans dont really have a symbiotic relationship with their mothership. we take what want and fuck the consequences.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • SPEEDY MCCREADY
    SPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 26,854
    catefrances wrote:

    i think perhaps we should have said in our culture, humans dont really have a symbiotic relationship with their mothership. we take what want and fuck the consequences.
    When in reality....

    It would would be a much nicer world....If it were....

    "We take what we want and fuck"

    And just leave it at that.......
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    HeidiJam wrote:
    I believe human intelligence (nature) brings about selfishness. Selfishness is seen these days as a derogatory characteristic. But selfishness is essentially anything that benefits the individual...and selfishness is the source of survival. Selfishness can be taken to extremes (when "wants" begin to be confused for "needs") and ultimately an individual can want something bad enough that they believe they need it to survive...which can end in killing.

    But, ultimately, when selfishness leads us to do things like destroy the environment, it's not even in our own best interest.

    “Only after the last tree has been cut down.
    Only after the last river has been poisoned.
    Only after the last fish has been caught.
    Only then will you find that
    money cannot be eaten”.
  • BinauralJam
    BinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    Pink has value, i would pay alot to be with that woman.


    pink.jpg
  • edvwhyme
    edvwhyme Posts: 8
    Well no humanity doesnt, but im sure someone will disagree
  • dpmay
    dpmay Posts: 643
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I do not nor never complain about someone's right to believe what they want, but you state it such a concrete and almost insulting manner, so that's why I comment about it. Absolute truths are neither absolute nor true :D



    Godfather.


    ooh, HERE is an interesting question. is there absoulte truth? if all things have value, is the value real? is mount everest REALLY the tallest mountain, or is it just perception?
  • dpmay
    dpmay Posts: 643
    tonifig8 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:

    Godfather,
    what does your bible teach you?

    read it and find out brother, I am not a perfect person by any means but I have accepted God into my heart and I try to be the best person that I can be, I pray almost every day and ask questions and most times with God in your heart you'll find answers aside from that it's the best history book in the world, but if you ask just to stirr up crap please don't, what is your faith ?

    Godfather.

    I believe Jesus Christ died for our sins .... Your far from perfect....
    I just don't understand people like you .. people like unsung...or Ariel... How can you and I be Christians yet be so different....... If you really love God, then why don't you allow him in your life .... pray for knowledge, for peace, strength, for your common man, etc..etc... I have very conservative relatives and I don't understand them either....we both love the same God, but one takes extreme positions and the other asks himself what would Jesus do? If you do read the bible and believe Jesus to be your savior ask yourself that question when making judgments or taking positions.... Don't put your country or anything before God....put your brothers/sisters and God before anything....make that sacrifice and you should be able to figure out right from wrong.... There is more to life then right and left...

    good point, for christians and not christians alike. but we should i think all TRY to understand each other a little better...
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    dpmay wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I do not nor never complain about someone's right to believe what they want, but you state it such a concrete and almost insulting manner, so that's why I comment about it. Absolute truths are neither absolute nor true :D

    ooh, HERE is an interesting question. is there absoulte truth? if all things have value, is the value real? is mount everest REALLY the tallest mountain, or is it just perception?
    ...
    Yes... Absolute truths are out there... 1+1=2 is an undisputable truth. I will die someday... is another truth.
    ...
    Religions deal in faith and belief... neither are truths. They are relative (or subjective) truths... but, not absolute truths.
    ...
    And yes... Mount Everest is the highest mountain peak on planet Earth.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Cosmo it's all perception and perspective. Nothing in the world is exact and perfect, science has taught us that.

    Also, wasn't it discovered that larger mountains are around but solely under the Atlantic ocean (mid-atlantic ridge)?
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Yes... Absolute truths are out there... 1+1=2 is an undisputable truth. I will die someday... is another truth.
    ...
    Religions deal in faith and belief... neither are truths. They are relative (or subjective) truths... but, not absolute truths.
    ...
    And yes... Mount Everest is the highest mountain peak on planet Earth.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis

Categories