Anybody notice some songs being played down 1/2 step?

rlaidepeas · May 2010

I would guess most people probably haven't noticed this, but since last year, I have noticed alot of self titled album (avocado) and Backspacer songs being played down a half step (the songs are played a half step flat instead of standard tuning used to record the songs on the studio versions).

Alot of bands do this to make songs with high notes easier to sing, and I suppose that's why they are doing this now - the songs I noticed at the Kansas City and St Louis shows that are being played down half a step are Life Wasted, World Wide Suicide, Got Some, The Fixer, and I'm pretty sure Garden was played flatter than recorded. There could have been some others as well.

Anyway, this is just something I noticed, and I wondered if anybody else has. This in no way has made the concerts any less enjoyable, it just makes some of the songs sound a bit different. Kansas City and St Louis were some of the best shows I've ever seen.

EddieLedBetter · May 2010

Ask Robert Plant why a band would play songs live half a step down.

rlaidepeas · May 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Ask Robert Plant why a band would play songs live half a step down.

I would but I lost his phone number. Actually I know why they do it. As you get older (Ed is going on 46 now), you can't do the upper register stuff as well. I get that. I just wonder if anybody else has noticed it - not asking why they are doing it. Although I am a bit confused that they are still playing some songs in the original key that I would think should be even harder to sing than some of them they have decided to drop down. Comatose is still played like the studio version yet Got Some is too tough to sing? They sang Got Some like the studio version on the first Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien, but now a year later it's dropped down.

EddieLedBetter · May 2010

Ya I definitely noticed it. Makes it easier on back to back show nights as well. Got some is a great vocal strainer.

Flagg · May 2010

Life Wasted for sure was down. Sounded like a whole step to me.

Gonna See My Friend was tuned way down at ACL TV as well.

I am kind of surprised they haven't started recording everything down a half or whole step. But then they would sound like Alice in Chains.

shmap · May 2010

In Chicago this past summer, I noticed that everything from Backspacer was taken down. I have no problem with it, but you're right, it does change the songs.

EddieLedBetter · May 2010

Flagg wrote:

Life Wasted for sure was down. Sounded like a whole step to me.

Gonna See My Friend was tuned way down at ACL TV as well.

I am kind of surprised they haven't started recording everything down a half or whole step. But then they would sound like Alice in Chains.

No need in the studio you get a million takes.

rlaidepeas · May 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Flagg wrote:

Life Wasted for sure was down. Sounded like a whole step to me.

Gonna See My Friend was tuned way down at ACL TV as well.

I am kind of surprised they haven't started recording everything down a half or whole step. But then they would sound like Alice in Chains.

No need in the studio you get a million takes.

You're right, but it would make the songs sound 'correct' when they played them live if they just had them down to begin with. Not a big deal - I suppose in a few years, we'll hear Even Flow down a whole step as well.

DPrival78 · May 2010

shmap wrote:

In Chicago this past summer, I noticed that everything from Backspacer was taken down. I have no problem with it, but you're right, it does change the songs.

GSMF, got some, the fixer, supersonic, force of nature have all been tuned down live. kind of funny how just a year or so after crafting the songs, they have to tune so many of them down to do them live.

but like people said, in the course of a 2.5 hour show, those 45 yr old vocal cords take quite a beating. and with that being the case, i'd rather them just record the songs in a lower key.

RedMosquito22 · May 2010

DPrival78 wrote:

shmap wrote:

In Chicago this past summer, I noticed that everything from Backspacer was taken down. I have no problem with it, but you're right, it does change the songs.

GSMF, got some, the fixer, supersonic, force of nature have all been tuned down live. kind of funny how just a year or so after crafting the songs, they have to tune so many of them down to do them live.

but like people said, in the course of a 2.5 hour show, those 45 yr old vocal cords take quite a beating. and with that being the case, i'd rather them just record the songs in a lower key.

The reason is Ed's cigarette smoking. His voice isn't as durable as it once was. It's as simple as that. Why someone who makes a living with their voice would choose to smoke is beyond me. It's like anyone else in the band taking up competitive knuckle bashing.

rlaidepeas · May 2010

DPrival78 wrote:

shmap wrote:

In Chicago this past summer, I noticed that everything from Backspacer was taken down. I have no problem with it, but you're right, it does change the songs.

GSMF, got some, the fixer, supersonic, force of nature have all been tuned down live. kind of funny how just a year or so after crafting the songs, they have to tune so many of them down to do them live.

but like people said, in the course of a 2.5 hour show, those 45 yr old vocal cords take quite a beating. and with that being the case, i'd rather them just record the songs in a lower key.[/quote]

Me too. The Backspacer songs should have just been tuned down to begin with, although I think the standard tuning sounds better - especially for Got Some.

DPrival78 · May 2010

rlaidepeas wrote:

DPrival78 wrote:

shmap wrote:

In Chicago this past summer, I noticed that everything from Backspacer was taken down. I have no problem with it, but you're right, it does change the songs.

GSMF, got some, the fixer, supersonic, force of nature have all been tuned down live. kind of funny how just a year or so after crafting the songs, they have to tune so many of them down to do them live.

but like people said, in the course of a 2.5 hour show, those 45 yr old vocal cords take quite a beating. and with that being the case, i'd rather them just record the songs in a lower key.[/quote]

Me too. The Backspacer songs should have just been tuned down to begin with, although I think the standard tuning sounds better - especially for Got Some.

and ed still struggles with it live from time to time, even with it being tuned down. it still kicks ass though, and sounds great on the record.. but maybe the guys should try to stay within themselves a little bit more on future records.

zootown · May 2010

Im glad I wasnt the only one who noticed this too. See, this is a topic that crosses over into dangerous territory here on the board. Do we, as consumers of this PJ product (the music), have the right to bitch when its so clear that Eddie's voice has suffered due to smoking and drinking. Ive noticed the decline since 06. Of course, Eddie's is just a person, and yes a person that I have zero personal relationship with, and he does have a "right" to smoke and drink. But isn't it affecting us too? I think it's changing the way songs are played, what setlists are selected (note no Last Exit or Blood on this tour....not to mention songs like Wash and other earlier songs), and the overall quality of the show. I guess I have to decide if I still want to attend shows if I am no longer guaranteed that Eddie will be "on" that night or not (kinda a similar, but less intense, feeling I felt seeing the Grateful Dead, some nights they killed it, other nights not so much). This feeling was NEVER present prior to 06....what makes it hard is that it is only common sense that if Eddie could give up smoking that "golden baritone' would emerge again.

pandora · May 2010

zootown wrote:

Im glad I wasnt the only one who noticed this too. See, this is a topic that crosses over into dangerous territory here on the board. Do we, as consumers of this PJ product (the music), have the right to bitch when its so clear that Eddie's voice has suffered due to smoking and drinking. Ive noticed the decline since 06. Of course, Eddie's is just a person, and yes a person that I have zero personal relationship with, and he does have a "right" to smoke and drink. But isn't it affecting us too? I think it's changing the way songs are played, what setlists are selected (note no Last Exit or Blood on this tour....not to mention songs like Wash and other earlier songs), and the overall quality of the show. I guess I have to decide if I still want to attend shows if I am no longer guaranteed that Eddie will be "on" that night or not (kinda a similar, but less intense, feeling I felt seeing the Grateful Dead, some nights they killed it, other nights not so much). This feeling was NEVER present prior to 06....what makes it hard is that it is only common sense that if Eddie could give up smoking that "golden baritone' would emerge again.

I wish people would appreciate what they have, you don't know when it will be gone. Sorry you don't get the journey we are on together, so quick to bail you are. If our dear Eddie chooses to smoke and drink that is entirely his business. Your post sounds so selfish to me, maybe I misinterpret and pardon me if I do, but if they are no longer good enough for you find another to please you. Not sure who would ever be better but you can try.

lowbudgetlush · May 2010

zootown wrote:

Im glad I wasnt the only one who noticed this too. See, this is a topic that crosses over into dangerous territory here on the board. Do we, as consumers of this PJ product (the music), have the right to bitch when its so clear that Eddie's voice has suffered due to smoking and drinking. Ive noticed the decline since 06. Of course, Eddie's is just a person, and yes a person that I have zero personal relationship with, and he does have a "right" to smoke and drink. But isn't it affecting us too? I think it's changing the way songs are played, what setlists are selected (note no Last Exit or Blood on this tour....not to mention songs like Wash and other earlier songs), and the overall quality of the show. I guess I have to decide if I still want to attend shows if I am no longer guaranteed that Eddie will be "on" that night or not (kinda a similar, but less intense, feeling I felt seeing the Grateful Dead, some nights they killed it, other nights not so much). This feeling was NEVER present prior to 06....what makes it hard is that it is only common sense that if Eddie could give up smoking that "golden baritone' would emerge again.

Weather he smokes or not probably does not make much of a difference at this point. His voice is just not as powerful as it once was. He has been doing this for 20 years.

As to his smoking & drinking affecting us too, that is rediculous. It is his life to live as he see's fit. If you dont like it dont go.

I will personally stop attending Pearl Jam shows when i finally hear Who You are live. This song has alluded me for 14 years.

Spot In The Sky · May 2010

lowbudgetlush wrote:

zootown wrote:

I will personally stop attending Pearl Jam shows when i finally hear Who You are live. This song has alluded me for 14 years.

Oh my god dude- it is SOOOOOOO GOOD LIVE!!!

DH62179 · May 2010

I don't like it when he does that but I totally understand why he has to, you can't scream all night for weeks and expect to be able to sing (I wouldn't think). Especially when you smoke as much as he does.

SVRDhand13 · May 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Ask Robert Plant why a band would play songs live half a step down.

I just spoke to Plant. He said Led Zep played half a step down for live songs because they sucked live and that the band is only remembered because of the great production of the albums. He added that John Bonham was about 1/10th the drummer of Keith Moon. Anymore questions for Plant?

lowbudgetlush · May 2010

Spot In The Sky wrote:

lowbudgetlush wrote:

zootown wrote:

I will personally stop attending Pearl Jam shows when i finally hear Who You are live. This song has alluded me for 14 years.

Oh my god dude- it is SOOOOOOO GOOD LIVE!!!

I have been kicking myself for missing the 2008 shows when they did finally bring it back. Unfortunately i could not take anytime off of work. Please just play it in cleveland on Sunday.

zootown · May 2010

pandora wrote:

zootown wrote:

Im glad I wasnt the only one who noticed this too. See, this is a topic that crosses over into dangerous territory here on the board. Do we, as consumers of this PJ product (the music), have the right to bitch when its so clear that Eddie's voice has suffered due to smoking and drinking. Ive noticed the decline since 06. Of course, Eddie's is just a person, and yes a person that I have zero personal relationship with, and he does have a "right" to smoke and drink. But isn't it affecting us too? I think it's changing the way songs are played, what setlists are selected (note no Last Exit or Blood on this tour....not to mention songs like Wash and other earlier songs), and the overall quality of the show. I guess I have to decide if I still want to attend shows if I am no longer guaranteed that Eddie will be "on" that night or not (kinda a similar, but less intense, feeling I felt seeing the Grateful Dead, some nights they killed it, other nights not so much). This feeling was NEVER present prior to 06....what makes it hard is that it is only common sense that if Eddie could give up smoking that "golden baritone' would emerge again.

I wish people would appreciate what they have, you don't know when it will be gone. Sorry you don't get the journey we are on together, so quick to bail you are. If our dear Eddie chooses to smoke and drink that is entirely his business. Your post sounds so selfish to me, maybe I misinterpret and pardon me if I do, but if they are no longer good enough for you find another to please you. Not sure who would ever be better but you can try.

Right, pandora, you buy the PJ Kool aid by the case dont you...I do appreciate what "I have", its incredible you can defend anything Eddie or PJ, but you are so quick to judge and criticize someone who makes an honest criticism....you remind me of the bible bashers down at the farmer's market who preach their pity to people who dont believe what they believe. To each their own...

rlaidepeas · May 2010

When I started this thread, I wasn't really trying to start a debate about whether he should stop smoking or not. Truthfully, I doubt it has much to do with the decision to down tune some of the songs. He is not in his 30's anymore, let alone 20's, and I know most other bands that have toured for 20 years also eventually have to make adjustments to their sound. I was just curious if anybody else was noticing it during this tour, and last year's tour. I just thought it was interesting that some difficult songs they are keeping in the studio recorded tuning, and some other songs they are changing. Alive is still in the key of 'A'. Yellow Ledbetter is still in the key of "E". But one day, will these songs go to Ab, or G? Will Yellow Ledbetter be in the key of "D"? As these guys get to be in their 50's, i'm sure we'll start seeing more changes. But as long as they keep bringing a great show like they did the last few nights, that's all you can ask for. Definately make it a point to see this tour because both shows were among the best i've ever seen.

DewieCox · May 2010

SVRDhand13 wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Ask Robert Plant why a band would play songs live half a step down.

I just spoke to Plant. He said Led Zep played half a step down for live songs because they sucked live and that the band is only remembered because of the great production of the albums. He added that John Bonham was about 1/10th the drummer of Keith Moon. Anymore questions for Plant?

Man, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. They're remembered b/c they are the great rock band of all time. Take nothin away from Moon, but Bonzo had alot more to his playin than Moon ever dreamed of. Though you make a great point about the production of the albums.

I don't notice a big difference in the 1/2 step down tuning. Makes stuff sound a little thicker, plus I'd rather Ed hit the notes than strain and have to cut a song or 2 out of a set. It's not like Alice In Chains where their music sounds more menacing or heavy with that tuning.

AtlantaJammer · May 2010

The reason is Ed's cigarette smoking. His voice isn't as durable as it once was. It's as simple as that. Why someone who makes a living with their voice would choose to smoke is beyond me. It's like anyone else in the band taking up competitive knuckle bashing.

Hes not making a living. Dude doesnt have to worry about money ever again.

smanchac · May 2010

i just want to say this

if you listen to how he used to sound, and how he sounds now... i like now better. he is deeper

a few years ago i thought how i liked that his smoking made his voice deeper... but thats just me.

rlaidepeas · May 2010

When I hear a song that i'm used to hearing in standard turning, but played live down half a step, i always feel like it makes the song sound a bit too 'slow'. Almost like a tape machine that is played back at the wrong speed - the opposite of the 'Chipmunk' speed up effect. I know the tempo is the same regardless of the tuning, but it's like an audio illusion to my brain, and it makes the song feel slower. I've heard people say tuning these songs down live gives them a heavier feeling, but I'm not really sensing that. I mean a band like Alice in Chains plays down half a step and a whole step on their studio recordings, so it sounds right when they play them live. But when you take a song like The Fixer, or Got Some and then change the key after it's recorded, it comes off sounding a bit funny. Of course, I play guitar and have a decent musical ear, so it stands out a bit more than probably to Joe Average fan, but still some of you have said you notice it, so i'm not alone.

megatron · May 2010

rlaidepeas wrote:

When I started this thread, I wasn't really trying to start a debate about whether he should stop smoking or not. Truthfully, I doubt it has much to do with the decision to down tune some of the songs. He is not in his 30's anymore, let alone 20's, and I know most other bands that have toured for 20 years also eventually have to make adjustments to their sound. I was just curious if anybody else was noticing it during this tour, and last year's tour. I just thought it was interesting that some difficult songs they are keeping in the studio recorded tuning, and some other songs they are changing. Alive is still in the key of 'A'. Yellow Ledbetter is still in the key of "E". But one day, will these songs go to Ab, or G? Will Yellow Ledbetter be in the key of "D"? As these guys get to be in their 50's, i'm sure we'll start seeing more changes. But as long as they keep bringing a great show like they did the last few nights, that's all you can ask for. Definately make it a point to see this tour because both shows were among the best i've ever seen.

i love how you keep coming back having to restate the actual title of the thread.

i don't really notice any of the songs live..except life wasted. and when i heard supersonic live in chicago i thought it was lower..but i really like the way it sounds.

i'm not good enough with music to pick up keys without going up and down the neck until it sounds right..

and i think alive and YL will stay the same. seem easy enough on the voice not to change

pandora · May 2010

zootown wrote:

pandora wrote:

zootown wrote:

Im glad I wasnt the only one who noticed this too. See, this is a topic that crosses over into dangerous territory here on the board. Do we, as consumers of this PJ product (the music), have the right to bitch when its so clear that Eddie's voice has suffered due to smoking and drinking. Ive noticed the decline since 06. Of course, Eddie's is just a person, and yes a person that I have zero personal relationship with, and he does have a "right" to smoke and drink. But isn't it affecting us too? I think it's changing the way songs are played, what setlists are selected (note no Last Exit or Blood on this tour....not to mention songs like Wash and other earlier songs), and the overall quality of the show. I guess I have to decide if I still want to attend shows if I am no longer guaranteed that Eddie will be "on" that night or not (kinda a similar, but less intense, feeling I felt seeing the Grateful Dead, some nights they killed it, other nights not so much). This feeling was NEVER present prior to 06....what makes it hard is that it is only common sense that if Eddie could give up smoking that "golden baritone' would emerge again.

I wish people would appreciate what they have, you don't know when it will be gone. Sorry you don't get the journey we are on together, so quick to bail you are. If our dear Eddie chooses to smoke and drink that is entirely his business. Your post sounds so selfish to me, maybe I misinterpret and pardon me if I do, but if they are no longer good enough for you find another to please you. Not sure who would ever be better but you can try.

Right, pandora, you buy the PJ Kool aid by the case dont you...I do appreciate what "I have", its incredible you can defend anything Eddie or PJ, but you are so quick to judge and criticize someone who makes an honest criticism....you remind me of the bible bashers down at the farmer's market who preach their pity to people who dont believe what they believe. To each their own...

totally agree to each their own but why then the need to insult me? We should always try to remain polite. I do think your post sounded selfish and if you think that is a judgement call I'm sorry. Perhaps if you read thru it you might see how that it is kind of how it came off. Like the band owes us something.
I'm sure you appreciate your life and what you have I meant appreciating Pearl Jam and Eddie because you just never know. We may just have few precious years left together.
I won't apologize for being positive towards something in my life that I am passionate about. PJ has helped me in ways you'll never know and I understand that is not the case for many here but then for those people they must realize that we will remain positive against the criticism because we don't agree with it,that simple. To us it's just not so.
Oh not sure what PJ Kool aid is either but from the derogatory way you said it I have a feeling it's something you don't think is good. But if it has to do with remaining faithful to a wonderful group of men than perhaps you are not so far off base. I am faithful and proud of it. By the way Pearl Jam is my bible

I do spread the word whenever I can

fox_mulderX · May 2010

rlaidepeas wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Ask Robert Plant why a band would play songs live half a step down.

I would but I lost his phone number. Actually I know why they do it. As you get older (Ed is going on 46 now), you can't do the upper register stuff as well. I get that. I just wonder if anybody else has noticed it - not asking why they are doing it. Although I am a bit confused that they are still playing some songs in the original key that I would think should be even harder to sing than some of them they have decided to drop down. Comatose is still played like the studio version yet Got Some is too tough to sing? They sang Got Some like the studio version on the first Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien, but now a year later it's dropped down.

yeah it's pretty noticeable. the fixer sounds pretty good tuned down, but i'm not a fan of anything else. force of nature sounds really bad when its not in regular tuning.

fox_mulderX · May 2010

zootown wrote:

Im glad I wasnt the only one who noticed this too. See, this is a topic that crosses over into dangerous territory here on the board. Do we, as consumers of this PJ product (the music), have the right to bitch when its so clear that Eddie's voice has suffered due to smoking and drinking. Ive noticed the decline since 06. Of course, Eddie's is just a person, and yes a person that I have zero personal relationship with, and he does have a "right" to smoke and drink. But isn't it affecting us too? I think it's changing the way songs are played, what setlists are selected (note no Last Exit or Blood on this tour....not to mention songs like Wash and other earlier songs), and the overall quality of the show. I guess I have to decide if I still want to attend shows if I am no longer guaranteed that Eddie will be "on" that night or not (kinda a similar, but less intense, feeling I felt seeing the Grateful Dead, some nights they killed it, other nights not so much). This feeling was NEVER present prior to 06....what makes it hard is that it is only common sense that if Eddie could give up smoking that "golden baritone' would emerge again.

to be honest, i've noticed a change in his voice since 03. if you listen to the boots (especially benaroya=daughter) his voice becomes flat as the show progresses. now i know people are going to say that "well he sings for 2+ hours at every concert so anyones voice would get tired" and i realize this, but if you listen to any show from 2000 (their best tour), his voice was amazing every show.
BUT
i think ed's voice has improved since 06 to be honest. it's not 2000 quality, but ed's a geezer and we can't expect much jk jk

zootown · May 2010

I wish people would appreciate what they have, you don't know when it will be gone. Sorry you don't get the journey we are on together, so quick to bail you are. If our dear Eddie chooses to smoke and drink that is entirely his business. Your post sounds so selfish to me, maybe I misinterpret and pardon me if I do, but if they are no longer good enough for you find another to please you. Not sure who would ever be better but you can try.[/quote]

Right, pandora, you buy the PJ Kool aid by the case dont you...I do appreciate what "I have", its incredible you can defend anything Eddie or PJ, but you are so quick to judge and criticize someone who makes an honest criticism....you remind me of the bible bashers down at the farmer's market who preach their pity to people who dont believe what they believe. To each their own...[/quote]
totally agree to each their own but why then the need to insult me? We should always try to remain polite. I do think your post sounded selfish and if you think that is a judgement call I'm sorry. Perhaps if you read thru it you might see how that it is kind of how it came off. Like the band owes us something.
I'm sure you appreciate your life and what you have I meant appreciating Pearl Jam and Eddie because you just never know. We may just have few precious years left together.
I won't apologize for being positive towards something in my life that I am passionate about. PJ has helped me in ways you'll never know and I understand that is not the case for many here but then for those people they must realize that we will remain positive against the criticism because we don't agree with it,that simple. To us it's just not so.
Oh not sure what PJ Kool aid is either but from the derogatory way you said it I have a feeling it's something you don't think is good. But if it has to do with remaining faithful to a wonderful group of men than perhaps you are not so far off base. I am faithful and proud of it. By the way Pearl Jam is my bible

I do spread the word whenever I can[/quote]

Interesting response... for me love and faith are inherently defined by honesty, among other things. Just because I "love" something, whether it be music or a person or an idea, doesn't mean that I am forbidden to honestly level criticism from time to time when it is warranted. I would expect the same in return if someone truly loved me....you see? It just seems to me that your commitment and love of this band and its' music does not include the capacity to question things or be critical...

pandora · May 2010

zootown wrote:

Interesting response... for me love and faith are inherently defined by honesty, among other things. Just because I "love" something, whether it be music or a person or an idea, doesn't mean that I am forbidden to honestly level criticism from time to time when it is warranted. I would expect the same in return if someone truly loved me....you see? It just seems to me that your commitment and love of this band and its' music does not include the capacity to question things or be critical...

You are so very right there. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about theses guys. Not one word.
But then what good would it do anyone if I did ?
If Ed's voice is to your ears not as good anymore what can you do about it but just be critical?

You can say he should quit smoking because you are getting a raw deal. That's kind of coming from a "high horse" wouldn't you say?
I mean everybody should quit smoking right? everybody should be flippin perfect but we are not.
What possible good comes from being negative and critical? As you age and put on a few pounds, lose your hair, get the wrinkles would you like your loved one to be so honest and say God you look like hell now? These are things we can not or will not change and sometimes the love and acceptance is what the person needs.
But you are correct about me. I love this band and I honestly see no improvement to be made. I am enjoying my journey, appreciate spending my life with them, and wouldn't change a thing.

Anybody notice some songs being played down 1/2 step?

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