Trying to understand the Tea Party

WaveCameCrashin · April 2010

Starfall wrote:

You DO realize that the CBO rated the new health care bill as actually CUTTING the deficit by $130 billion, right? Or are you willing to concede that we need a single payer system that would actually SAVE us a lot more money, instead of continuing to fund the private insurance system?

:roll:

Really ?
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/17/oba ... -and-debt/

Obamacare will come at the expense of the American people as it would grow the federal debt, increase premiums, and stifle economic growth.

The Senate bill would have disastrous effects on the economy and federal spending. CDA shows that the bill:

Increases the federal deficit and national debt. The Congressional Budget Office shows deficit neutrality for the Senate bill—however, this is based on static analysis which ignores the effects new taxes and an individual and employer mandate would have on economic growth. These provisions would decrease investment in the economy, resulting in lower wages and salaries. This means less taxable income, lowering federal revenues and growing the debt. Increased borrowing puts upward pressure on interest rates causing some private sector productive investment opportunities to be foregone. This also increases the interest owed on the national debt, such that the government would pay, on average, $20 billion more in interest between 2010 and 2020. By the end of the decade, CDA estimates the publicly held debt would be $755 billion dollars more than under current law.

DAMN. When are you leftist gonna wake up ?

Starfall · April 2010

LOL, the Heritage Foundation? Really?!

Right, who am I going to believe, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, who correctly predicted the disastrous $1.3 trillion dollar disaster that was the Bush tax cuts, and the $350 billion deficit of Medicare Part D, among others, or the notoriously right wing Heritage Foundation, who kept trumpeting the virtues of tax cuts and deregulation even after the economic disaster we just went through?

And you're asking "leftists" to wake up? Oh yeah, that's precious.

aNiMaL · April 2010

Tea baggers, here is your self appointed leader Pam Stout:

Part one
Part two
Part three

_ · April 2010

scb wrote:

So do they consider themselves to be an actual, distinct political party? And, legally, are they? Or are they a subset of another party? Or are they made of members from all the parties? And is there some official Tea Party membership status or can anyone just say they're part of the group? Do they have an official or unofficial leader or spokesperson? How long have they been around? What is their history?

Specifically, what are they upset about regarding the spending of their tax money? Is it just certain issues and, if so, why? Or are they against taxes altogether? Do they feel that they are being taxed without representation? Or why the tea party reference? And what, specifically, are the individual freedoms they think they have lost & why do they feel that way? Are they against our de facto two-party system? What actions do they promote/condone for affecting change?

Anyone?? I'm trying to actually learn about you people here. Now's your chance to set the record straight. You have the podium. You can't expect people to actually understand you and fairly represent you if you don't explain yourselves. (Thanks, unsung, for at least trying to answer a couple of my questions.)

dpmay · April 2010

Gern Blansten wrote:

My brother in law was all worked up about these "lazy people on welfare that have HDTV's and suck off the system and he doesn't have an HDTV blah blah blah". I mean come on.....they create this fictional enemy to rally against and all rational thought is out the window. It isn't easy to get welfare or public assistance. These people that receive it aren't someone to envy.

a-fucking-men! i wanted to start a fight with someone the other day who was telling me about 'people not willing to work' living on 'government handouts.' i wanted to mention that there's really not THAT much money, and people getting it certainly are NOT off living the high life...

(but we were on a small cramped plane, and i actually like the person, so...)

unsung · April 2010

If you wanted to start a fight with someone over that I'd suggest a nice anger management class for you.

dpmay · April 2010

unsung wrote:

If you wanted to start a fight with someone over that I'd suggest a nice anger management class for you.

haha - yeah i guess i meant, like, a discussion. i definitely wasn't going to come to blows...haha...

_ · April 2010

scb wrote:

scb wrote:

So do they consider themselves to be an actual, distinct political party? And, legally, are they? Or are they a subset of another party? Or are they made of members from all the parties? And is there some official Tea Party membership status or can anyone just say they're part of the group? Do they have an official or unofficial leader or spokesperson? How long have they been around? What is their history?

Specifically, what are they upset about regarding the spending of their tax money? Is it just certain issues and, if so, why? Or are they against taxes altogether? Do they feel that they are being taxed without representation? Or why the tea party reference? And what, specifically, are the individual freedoms they think they have lost & why do they feel that way? Are they against our de facto two-party system? What actions do they promote/condone for affecting change?

Anyone?? I'm trying to actually learn about you people here. Now's your chance to set the record straight. You have the podium. You can't expect people to actually understand you and fairly represent you if you don't explain yourselves. (Thanks, unsung, for at least trying to answer a couple of my questions.)

Aerial, would you care to answer my questions? Please.

WaveCameCrashin · April 2010

scb wrote:

scb wrote:

scb wrote:

So do they consider themselves to be an actual, distinct political party? And, legally, are they? Or are they a subset of another party? Or are they made of members from all the parties? And is there some official Tea Party membership status or can anyone just say they're part of the group? Do they have an official or unofficial leader or spokesperson? How long have they been around? What is their history?

Specifically, what are they upset about regarding the spending of their tax money? Is it just certain issues and, if so, why? Or are they against taxes altogether? Do they feel that they are being taxed without representation? Or why the tea party reference? And what, specifically, are the individual freedoms they think they have lost & why do they feel that way? Are they against our de facto two-party system? What actions do they promote/condone for affecting change?

Anyone?? I'm trying to actually learn about you people here. Now's your chance to set the record straight. You have the podium. You can't expect people to actually understand you and fairly represent you if you don't explain yourselves. (Thanks, unsung, for at least trying to answer a couple of my questions.)

Aerial, would you care to answer my questions? Please.

SCB I will do my best
No they are not a political party. They are a movment and There are members from all parties.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-P ... phics.aspx

http://teapartypatriots.ning.com/Tea Party Patriots
Mission Statement and Core Values

Mission Statement
The impetus for the Tea Party movement is excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.

Core Values

• Fiscal Responsibility
• Constitutionally Limited Government
• Free Markets

Fiscal Responsibility: Fiscal Responsibility by government honors and respects the freedom of the individual to spend the money that is the fruit of their own labor. A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of liberty, must be fiscally responsible or it must subject it's citizenry to high levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was designed to protect. Such runaway deficit spending as we now see in Washington D.C. compels us to take action as the increasing national debt is a grave threat to our national sovereignty and the personal and economic liberty of future generations.

Constitutionally Limited Government: We, the members of The Tea Party Patriots, are inspired by our founding documents and regard the Constitution of the United States to be the supreme law of the land. We believe that it is possible to know the original intent of the government our founders set forth, and stand in support of that intent. Like the founders, we support states' rights for those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution. As the government is of the people, by the people and for the people, in all other matters we support the personal liberty of the individual, within the rule of law.

Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government's interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business.

Our Philosophy
Tea Party Patriots as an organization believes in the Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government, and Free Markets. Tea Party Patriots, Inc. is a non-partisan grassroots organization of individuals united by our core values derived from the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill Of Rights as explained in the Federalist Papers. We recognize and support the strength of grassroots organization powered by activism and civic responsibility at a local level. We hold that the United States is a republic conceived by its architects as a nation whose people were granted "unalienable rights" by our Creator. Chiefly among these are the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The Tea Party Patriots stand with our founders, as heirs to the republic, to claim our rights and duties which preserve their legacy and our own. We hold, as did the founders, that there exists an inherent benefit to our country when private property and prosperity are secured by natural law and the rights of the individual.

_ · April 2010

prfctlefts wrote:

SCB I will do my best
No they are not a political party. They are a movment and There are members from all parties.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-P ... phics.aspx

http://teapartypatriots.ning.com/Tea Party Patriots
Mission Statement and Core Values

Mission Statement
The impetus for the Tea Party movement is excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.

Core Values

• Fiscal Responsibility
• Constitutionally Limited Government
• Free Markets

Fiscal Responsibility: Fiscal Responsibility by government honors and respects the freedom of the individual to spend the money that is the fruit of their own labor. A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of liberty, must be fiscally responsible or it must subject it's citizenry to high levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was designed to protect. Such runaway deficit spending as we now see in Washington D.C. compels us to take action as the increasing national debt is a grave threat to our national sovereignty and the personal and economic liberty of future generations.

Constitutionally Limited Government: We, the members of The Tea Party Patriots, are inspired by our founding documents and regard the Constitution of the United States to be the supreme law of the land. We believe that it is possible to know the original intent of the government our founders set forth, and stand in support of that intent. Like the founders, we support states' rights for those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution. As the government is of the people, by the people and for the people, in all other matters we support the personal liberty of the individual, within the rule of law.

Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government's interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business.

Our Philosophy
Tea Party Patriots as an organization believes in the Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government, and Free Markets. Tea Party Patriots, Inc. is a non-partisan grassroots organization of individuals united by our core values derived from the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill Of Rights as explained in the Federalist Papers. We recognize and support the strength of grassroots organization powered by activism and civic responsibility at a local level. We hold that the United States is a republic conceived by its architects as a nation whose people were granted "unalienable rights" by our Creator. Chiefly among these are the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The Tea Party Patriots stand with our founders, as heirs to the republic, to claim our rights and duties which preserve their legacy and our own. We hold, as did the founders, that there exists an inherent benefit to our country when private property and prosperity are secured by natural law and the rights of the individual.

Thank you.

WaveCameCrashin · April 2010

You're Welcome....

OutOfBreath · April 2010

prfctlefts, just 2 comments to that.

1. The link to the survey shows that they consist almost exclusively of republicans and most likely the republican leaning independents. Only 7 % were democrats. Demographically they are more of an average, but politically, they attract massively right wingers and have some appeal to centre-rights. Also seems to have soaked up some pro-lifers into the mix.

2. The core values, aren't they really the trusty republican values? Tight fiscal spending, responsibility and free markets? Nevermind what republicans have done lately, but these are traditional american conservative values, are they not?

Wouldn't it then be most correct to call the tea party an offshoot of the conservative side of politics? A conservative movement, with many of the good old conservative causes? Granted, they draw in some independents to their ranks, but massively, they are not from all walks of politics. They are from the right by and large.

Now that's no crime, but I think it would be most fair to call a shovel a shovel and concede that the tea party is largely a right-wing affair, with some appeal to segments of "the middle of the road".

Peace
Dan

WaveCameCrashin · April 2010

OutOfBreath wrote:

prfctlefts, just 2 comments to that.

1. The link to the survey shows that they consist almost exclusively of republicans and most likely the republican leaning independents. Only 7 % were democrats. Demographically they are more of an average, but politically, they attract massively right wingers and have some appeal to centre-rights. Also seems to have soaked up some pro-lifers into the mix.

2. The core values, aren't they really the trusty republican values? Tight fiscal spending, responsibility and free markets? Nevermind what republicans have done lately, but these are traditional american conservative values, are they not?

Wouldn't it then be most correct to call the tea party an offshoot of the conservative side of politics? A conservative movement, with many of the good old conservative causes? Granted, they draw in some independents to their ranks, but massively, they are not from all walks of politics. They are from the right by and large.

Now that's no crime, but I think it would be most fair to call a shovel a shovel and concede that the tea party is largely a right-wing affair, with some appeal to segments of "the middle of the road".

Peace
Dan

1. the Gallup poll says 43% of tea party supporters are independents, 8% Democrats and 49% Republicans. That means the majority of tea party supporters in the USA are not Republicans if you add the independents with the democrats that comes out to 51% of the tea party supporters are not republicans does it not ?

2. Yes that would be fair to say. . Many of us if not all want to see a lot of these repukes loose their seats. like J. Mcain and Lindsey Grahmn. They gotta go. We ned to replace these people with fisical conservatives like Marco Rubio and J. D. Hayworth

Flagg · April 2010

unsung wrote:

A group of people not happy with how their tax dollars are spent. Individual freedoms seem to be leaving us as well. This didn't start with Obama although he is continuing Bush policies that have intruded into our daily lives. The sooner people understand they are pretty much the same the better this country will be. People sit and complain about two parties at each others throats but don't do anything about it and instead make it worse.

That's why I'm involved.

Unsung, please don't take this as a personal attack against you. Only quoting you because the "individual freedoms" part. And I actually agree with the part about how everyone complains about the two parties but do nothing.

Can someone explain to me exactly which personal freedoms of mine have disappeared over the past couple of years? This argument is one of the Tea Party's biggest rallying cries and I am always racking my brain trying to understand why I have less personal freedom today than I had in 2007, or 2008.

Anyone?

Am I not allowed to go to the grocery store? Oh, wait. I can.
Movies? Hmm, I just did that so that can't be it.
Oh, I know, I can't go out to eat anymore. That's not right. I know there's a Burger King around the corner and it is open.

Seriously. I want a concrete example of how my personal freedoms have eroded and what exactly the Tea Party is going to do to help me get them back. And don't say anything about taxes. I don't make $200,000/year and I actually have paid less in taxes seemingly every year or about the same. I don't notice my taxes going through the roof every year. Probably because they don't.

OutOfBreath · April 2010

prfctlefts wrote:

1. the Gallup poll says 43% of tea party supporters are independents, 8% Democrats and 49% Republicans. That means the majority of tea party supporters in the USA are not Republicans if you add the independents with the democrats that comes out to 51% of the tea party supporters are not republicans does it not ?

Actually, no. You have to take into account that a fair number of people that usually label themselves "independent" are functional republicans in that they vote that way most often. And seeing as that is 43 percent of the 28 tea party percentages, I reckon that for the most part it's the right-leaning independents that have swung that way. Furthermore, seeing a statistic that distributes like that 9-43-48 interprets as a heavy bias towards the right side. Had the distribution been more like 20-50-30, then the non-partisan point might have some legitimacy. Most tea partiers label themselves republican, followed by independents. A very small number label themselves democrats. It's not about what they are not (as in, granted 51% dont say flat out republican), but what they say they are (more than 9/10 are not democrats). If you also throw in the distribution from liberal through moderate to conservative, you get a distribution of 7-22-70, leading to my conclusion that the indies counted here, are largely the conservative indies.

2. Yes that would be fair to say. . Many of us if not all want to see a lot of these repukes loose their seats. like J. Mcain and Lindsey Grahmn. They gotta go. We ned to replace these people with fisical conservatives like Marco Rubio and J. D. Hayworth

Shouldn't you then go for something like "true republicans" or at least "true conservatives"? It is clear on what you say, and very evident in the poll you posted that tea partiers are massively conservative and mostly republican or republican-leaning. So why not stop the pretense, and just label yourselves as the conservatives you really are? Nothing wrong with that.

Peace
Dan

Gern Blansten · April 2010

The Patriot Act was a huge freedom grab

but there again....only if you're conspiring against the USA

I generally take the "if you haven't done anything wrong then why worry" stance when it comes to the US tapping phones, emails, etc.....but I know others feel very differently

Otherwise it's just a buzzword that the right uses to enflame their ignorant base

_ · April 2010

Flagg wrote:

unsung wrote:

A group of people not happy with how their tax dollars are spent. Individual freedoms seem to be leaving us as well. This didn't start with Obama although he is continuing Bush policies that have intruded into our daily lives. The sooner people understand they are pretty much the same the better this country will be. People sit and complain about two parties at each others throats but don't do anything about it and instead make it worse.

That's why I'm involved.

Unsung, please don't take this as a personal attack against you. Only quoting you because the "individual freedoms" part. And I actually agree with the part about how everyone complains about the two parties but do nothing.

Can someone explain to me exactly which personal freedoms of mine have disappeared over the past couple of years? This argument is one of the Tea Party's biggest rallying cries and I am always racking my brain trying to understand why I have less personal freedom today than I had in 2007, or 2008.

Anyone?

Am I not allowed to go to the grocery store? Oh, wait. I can.
Movies? Hmm, I just did that so that can't be it.
Oh, I know, I can't go out to eat anymore. That's not right. I know there's a Burger King around the corner and it is open.

Seriously. I want a concrete example of how my personal freedoms have eroded and what exactly the Tea Party is going to do to help me get them back. And don't say anything about taxes. I don't make $200,000/year and I actually have paid less in taxes seemingly every year or about the same. I don't notice my taxes going through the roof every year. Probably because they don't.

I'd like to know where they stand on freedom of choice.

inmytree · April 2010

Flagg wrote:

unsung wrote:

A group of people not happy with how their tax dollars are spent. Individual freedoms seem to be leaving us as well. This didn't start with Obama although he is continuing Bush policies that have intruded into our daily lives. The sooner people understand they are pretty much the same the better this country will be. People sit and complain about two parties at each others throats but don't do anything about it and instead make it worse.

That's why I'm involved.

Unsung, please don't take this as a personal attack against you. Only quoting you because the "individual freedoms" part. And I actually agree with the part about how everyone complains about the two parties but do nothing.

Can someone explain to me exactly which personal freedoms of mine have disappeared over the past couple of years? This argument is one of the Tea Party's biggest rallying cries and I am always racking my brain trying to understand why I have less personal freedom today than I had in 2007, or 2008.

Anyone?

Am I not allowed to go to the grocery store? Oh, wait. I can.
Movies? Hmm, I just did that so that can't be it.
Oh, I know, I can't go out to eat anymore. That's not right. I know there's a Burger King around the corner and it is open.

Seriously. I want a concrete example of how my personal freedoms have eroded and what exactly the Tea Party is going to do to help me get them back. And don't say anything about taxes. I don't make $200,000/year and I actually have paid less in taxes seemingly every year or about the same. I don't notice my taxes going through the roof every year. Probably because they don't.

Flagg, I've been wondering the same thing about these "freedoms" they are supposedly losing...

I asked couple of teabagger friends of mine, and they couldn't answer....

Jason P · April 2010

It only makes sense that the majority of Tea Party activists are mostly conservative. Most left-leaning individuals are going to stick with their team while it is in control. Since I know a fair share of people that associate themselves with the Tea Party, I can say that they have been disillusioned with the expansion and efficiency of government for the last decade, not just the last year. It just took a change in power for them to break free of the two-party concept and realize it’s not working.

unsung · April 2010

Jason P wrote:

It only makes sense that the majority of Tea Party activists are mostly conservative. Most left-leaning individuals are going to stick with their team while it is in control. Since I know a fair share of people that associate themselves with the Tea Party, I can say that they have been disillusioned with the expansion and efficiency of government for the last decade, not just the last year. It just took a change in power for them to break free of the two-party concept and realize it’s not working.

I'd agree with this.

Trying to understand the Tea Party

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