Where were all these “freedom-loving” right wingers.....

flywallyfly wrote:

..during the Bush years? Brings up some interesting points .....


http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/3099

Where were all these “freedom-loving” right wingers during the Bush years?

That’s a rhetorical question, of course. But one that should be asked of the morons now breaking windows and cutting gas lines, all in the name of “freedom from big government.”

Well an old gentleman from Chico, California is asking it. From what I’m told the fellow worked as a volunteer teaching retirees about Medicare and COBRA. Here’s his open letter to Republicans. Sorry, don’t know his name, but if you do, let me know. Pass it on to your favorite Republican/Tea Party member:

We had eight years of Bush and Cheney, but now you get mad?
•You didn't get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.
•You didn't get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate energy policy.
•You didn't get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.
•You didn't get mad when the Patriot Act got passed..
•You didn't get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us.
•You didn't get mad when we spent $1 trillion on said illegal war.
•You didn't get mad when over $10 billion dollars (in hard cash) just “disappeared" in Iraq .
•You didn't get mad when you found out we were torturing people.
•You didn't get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.
•You didn't get mad when they didn't catch Bin Laden.
•You didn't get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed hospital.
•You didn't get mad when they let a major US city drown.
•You didn't get mad when they gave a $1.6 trillion in tax breaks to the rich.
•You didn’t get mad when, using reconciliation; a trillion dollars of our tax dollars were redirected to insurance companies for Medicare Advantage -- which cost more than 20% more for the same services that Medicare provides.
•You didn't get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark, and our debt hit the thirteen trillion dollar mark.
No, but you did get mad when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick. Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all okay with you, but helping other Americans... oh hell no!

First of all how the hell do you know if any of these issues made republicans or conservatives mad or not ? Is this guy fucking psychic ? But I will say that yeah a lot of people were not paying attention to what is been hapening untill now,and some still aren't. Don't even say or think that it has to do with race because if that were the case Obama never would have been elected president in the first place.
What ? Just because we weren't protesting in the streets about these issues doesn't mean we weren't paying attention or gave anyone a pass. Most conservatives I know make their voices heard at the voting booth. Ever heard of the silent majority ?

and some of these questions are really stupid like,•You didn't get mad when they let a major US city drown.
Um hello it was a democratic mayor and Govenor who didn't know what the fuck they were doing when it came to evacuating their own people,and a lot of those people didn't have any form of transportation. There's pleanty of blame to go around from the local branches all the way up to the feds. To say republicans didn't get mad is a pretty stupid comment.

and we didn't get mad when OBL was not caught ? :roll: :wtf:

and when did anyone ever say no one didn't have the right to see a doctor. Um news Flash It is illegal for any hospital or E.R. to turn anyone away. Case and point . One time I got a staff infection in my index finger. I din't have any ins. I went to the E.R. twice in two weeks,and on my second visit I was hospitalized at MUSC for 2 days. No one is denied in this country if you need medical atention.

•You didn't get mad when the Patriot Act got passed..
You mean that thing that Obama just signed in the cover of darkness so no one would see him signing it. You mean that peice of paper that he said he wouldn't sign ? You mean the same law that was voted on in the senate with a voice vote so none of the senators would have their name attached to it ? That thing ?

•You didn't get mad when we spent $1 trillion on said illegal war.
You mean the same war that Obama has killed more people in 15 months than Bush did in 8 years ?

I mean this is one of the dumbest threads I have ever seen started on here. :roll:

Byrnzie wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

aerial wrote:

Why do you libs keep asking where were the right wingers...over and over and over
And it has been answered over and over and over

It hasn't been answered.

So where were you? Care to address any of the points raised in the OP?

aerial wrote:

[Where were you? in China?

During the Bush years? Mostly in England. And I took part in an Anti-Bush demonstration in London in 2003 or 2004 protesting a visit to London by that jackass.

Not wanting to get personal, but life was a little complicate for my family and I until about two years ago......and this is just an example why not everyone could get involved at the time..

we can’t expect everyone to agree on everything......but we can still be civil to each other
Concerning your Anti-Bush demonstration, even if I had not agreed with it. I say "GOOD for you!" Because I admire people that make a stand for the things that are important to them. I was not a Bush fan, but I was not involved to much back then with politics......

I am "freedom-loving" and I would say that I'm classically right wing, so I'll take a stab.

W.'s views on foreign policy during his campaign were actually classically conservative and even non-interventionist. Then of course, September 11th changed everything. During the Bush years, most of the freedom-loving right wingers (as well as quite a few lefties) were fearmongered into trading liberty for security in a post-9/11 world. They let the tv and the administration talk and think for them and honestly (but wrongfully) saw the war machine and all the associated spending as necessary to fend off terrorism. Slow to awaken to the bullshit, it took many of them 6 to 8 years to realize this, and W. might have been the lamest of lame ducks in the history of the presidency-- millions of anti-war protestors were hardly an afterthought to that guy-- no one was going to change his (or Cheney's) mind. TARP was signed with less than 2 months before the election, and was also supported by both Obama and McCain. Along comes Barry winning the presidency by promising change. The damage had been done already, and the guy chose to step into take the toughest job in the world. Everyone knows that Bush wasn't listening to the people, so maybe this next guy would? I guess for some that meant January '09 was time to start yelling because it might actually be heard this time.

I always blow this guy up on here, because I love everything he stands for. I believe that Ron Paul's emergence onto the scene in 2007 sparked a revolution among conservatives to recall old-school conservatism, and not the neo-conservatism that dominated the 2000s. It was there that the original tea parties were held, mostly as "money bombs" and fundraisers. It was there that the idea of protest and revolution cracked the "right" and as it got more popular last year, it was infiltrated by the likes of FOX News-- who ironically edited Dr. Paul out of the presidential debates in 2008.

For one thing, until 2007, no one on the "right" actually even knew that there was a leader of the fiscally conservative and socially "liberal" movement that the good Doctor embraces. Until this guy started making some waves, no one ever thought to challenge the Republican Party establishment to be what it was born to be-- for limited federal government in all forms-- it seemed impossible after 8 years of neo-conservatism dominating conservative circles. The mainstream media did it's best to discredit or ignore people like Ron Paul, until they simply couldn't any more. Ultimately, Bush and the Neocons had failed their party. The "security" spending has not made us any safer, nor has destroying our civil liberties in the name of that same security, nor has corporate-welfare fixed our economy.

So the tea parties are a mixture of people who are libertarian-minded people who have always wanted to see limited government, but have never had their movement see any momentum until recently. Another part of the mixture are neo-cons who have their blinders on completely and fail to acknowledge that all of the spending Bush did only set precedent for the current administration to again raise the bar in terms of growth of government and subsequent spending.

And yes, a small portion of these people are just plain racist, or morons, or haters. They exist in different bodies in every circle, and the best way to demonize an honest movement is to put a magnifying glass focused strictly on those specific people.

In summary, most of the true freedom-lovers were fragmented and unaware that there were others like them anywhere, or were unaware of any existing leadership that could be taken seriously by the mainstream.
The "fake" ones were just waiting for January to erupt, and the morons are just morons.

All in all, it's a perfect storm for everyone to disagree. If people want to see change in this country through the electoral process, it's best to start searching for the good people early and start supporting them regardless of party.

Byrnzie wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

I was and still am against the war in iraq and no i don't want to pay for other peoples stuff.

So then you should refuse to pay any taxes at all.

I benefit from a lot of taxes I pay.

And to whoever wrote it earlier, I am not a conservative. But i don't believe one should wait for the federal government to do something for them. If you want the government to take care of you that is fine. I don't want to wait for them to do anything. I work for and with many government agencies, and they are all slow-moving, horrible bureaucracies with little to no actual feeling towards the people they pretend to care about.

As far as not defending a liberal point of view on these forums....seriously.... I think there are PLENTY of liberals here who need their views challenged a little.

Starfall wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

who didn't get mad? a lot of conservatives bitched about what was happening, is happening, and will happen in the future. If you start asking these kinds of questions it can be done for any party...why you hate conservatives so much is beyond me.

Oh please. I can count on one hand the real "conservatives" who stood up to criticize the Bush administration for its corruption and its incompetence from day one. Most of them are Johnny-Come-Lately, rats-jumping-the-sinking-ship types. Not that I hold the Democrats any less accountable - heaven knows a lot of them bought the neocon and neoliberal agenda hook, line, and sinker, but trying to pull some phantom conservative resistance group out of thin air to counter the critique of the OP is just foolhardy.


If you think the Bush administration was the first to be corrupt or have rampant cronyism you are sadly mistaken. It isn't a party thing, it is a politician thing. Pretty sure I could make a similar list about the Clinton era, but I won't. I thought he was a pretty damn good president, but I could certainly make a list of things that liberals weren't mad about until the bush II era. It is always a two way street.

And yes, I am a freedom loving independant thinker who votes on the person not the party before you try and attack me. I was and still am against the war in iraq and no i don't want to pay for other peoples stuff. Guess that makes me a terrible person

Oh? Then why are you playing devil's advocate in this thread? And why haven't I seen you defend liberals yet?

*edit*
forgot to put this in but really want it to address it.

"you weren't mad when they let a major us city drown"

This is exactly what I am talking about. Why on earth is it the government's fault? Did they create the Hurricane. The government isn't here to help everyone out of every jam they could be in. I am sorry for the people who lost their stuff and their lives, but waiting around for the government to do something is ridiculous. Because those same people would have been bitching like crazy if the government forced the evacuation and it wasn't as bad. I just don't get it. Why wait for the government to do anything for you, go do it yourself.

Then you've absolutely proven yourself to be a conservative by parroting the "anti-government" line. I mean, seriously, where do I start? George W. Bush appointing a horse lawyer to head FEMA, who wanted to quit in the middle of the disaster? Refusal to do something about the possible failure of the dams as early as 2001, and with Hurricane Ivan a year earler? Failure to mobilize National Guard units (oh wait, LA didn't have any to spare because they were sent to Iraq)? Failure to implement an already set evacuation plan? Not knowing that the Superdome was a primary evacuation site?

Why wait for the government? Because the government was the ONLY entity at the time that could have accomplished an orderly evacuation of the residents of New Orleans. You seriously cannot expect millions of people to have gotten out of the city in an orderly fashion by themselves. That's what the government is for.

You might be right, that might be what LOCAL government is for. Shouldn't they be blamed no matter what party they work for...

But as a result of his incompetence, George W. Bush fucked up an entire city and its population for generations to come.

I know people who were directly affected by the disaster, and your fawning concern and inane arguments are frankly an insult to the millions of good, innocent people who were let down by that disastrous administration.

To quote those notorious left wing liberals in the Cato Institute: (ibid):
The administration underestimated the problem, failed to plan for the predictable aftermath and refused to accept responsibility for its actions.

Don't really want to hijack the thread, but it isn't fawning concern. I legitimately feel terrible for the people of new orleans. I donated a shit load of money to help in the weeks following. Sucks when everything you own is destroyed. I know that from experience.

It wasn't an anti-government line, it was actually defending the role of government. It isn't to take care of every single problem anyone might go through. Are you telling me that the people of new orleans have it rougher than those living on the street. Should we solve everyone's problems for them... I don't have anyone lining up to pay my bills for me, my credit problems are my own, I am not asking for help because I need to take responsibility for them and take care of them on my own.

I am not parroting anything, I do happen to think for myself. I just don't want the government involved in my day to day life. Sorry, guess we will have to agree to disagree.

And I said it in an earlier post but there does not seem to be any shortage of liberals on these boards, so challenging the standard liberal ideals is much more important. If this place was mostly conservative I would probably unleash some of my liberal ideas. Personally i think the best thing for the country is a little bit of both.