Antisemitism On Campus

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  • michelleelise
    michelleelise Posts: 346
    Off the top of my head I'd say that if you wanted to post a poll that proves or disproves anti-semitism in a country or the world, then find one that is an official report of anti-semitic violence or incidents reported to police. Right?
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    michelle822 wrote:
    That poll is an interesting but shallow overview of the views of other countries. There is no depth to it in that it doesn't delve at all into why the citizens of one country would feel one way or another about the other countries on the list. So it doesn't prove or disprove anti-semitism. For that, they'd need to focus on the reasoning behind people's answers, which that poll doesn't do. You can't possibly know just by looking at that poll whether a particular individual rated Israel negatively because they are against the violence on both sides or whether it was because they hold anti-semitic views. The pollsters don't even attempt to do that.

    BTW, citing Germany as the country with the most anti-Israel sentiment (outside of the Middle East countries) doesn't exactly bolster your claim that the poll proves a lack of anti-semitism, either.


    of course it doesn't but i'm tired of certain people calling others anti-semites because they are critical of Israel's actions. this poll shows, in 2007 at least, most people view Israel as being a negative influence in the world, 4 years before that the EU thought Israel was the biggest threat to world peace with the most thinking that being Holland. naturally, some of the people who voted that way ARE anti-semites but my point wasn't to disprove anti-semitism exists, it was to ask if i'm an anti-semite because i am critical of Israel then are all these other people anti-semites as well?

    are you saying germany is anti-semitic? i am aware of the history but people like yosi say 2 decades ago is too long to hold against anyone, so why hold on to more than twice that?

    basically i'm saying unless i'm supposed to believe 3/4 of Holland and more than 1/2 the EU are anti-semites there are valid reasons to be critical of Israel's actions and obviously a whole lot of people agree, despite the attempts to make it seem like only crazy anti-semites frothing at the mouth are critical.
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    michelle822 wrote:
    That poll is an interesting but shallow overview of the views of other countries. There is no depth to it in that it doesn't delve at all into why the citizens of one country would feel one way or another about the other countries on the list. So it doesn't prove or disprove anti-semitism. For that, they'd need to focus on the reasoning behind people's answers, which that poll doesn't do. You can't possibly know just by looking at that poll whether a particular individual rated Israel negatively because they are against the violence on both sides or whether it was because they hold anti-semitic views. The pollsters don't even attempt to do that.

    BTW, citing Germany as the country with the most anti-Israel sentiment (outside of the Middle East countries) doesn't exactly bolster your claim that the poll proves a lack of anti-semitism, either.

    +1 ... Much better explained that what I wrote. I am writing exam questions, and didn't have the energy. :P
  • michelleelise
    michelleelise Posts: 346
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    of course it doesn't but i'm tired of certain people calling others anti-semites because they are critical of Israel's actions.

    Yeah, it's frustrating but it's also par for the course in these situations - it's not limited to discussions of Israel by any means. Example, I've heard white Americans complain that they can't criticize African-Americans at all lest they be called racists, etc.
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    are you saying germany is anti-semitic? i am aware of the history but people like yosi say 2 decades ago is too long to hold against anyone, so why hold on to more than twice that?

    I was saying that kind of tongue-in-cheek :) Although, as far as I'm aware there has been a rise in anti-semitic violence across many EU nations.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    michelle822 wrote:
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    of course it doesn't but i'm tired of certain people calling others anti-semites because they are critical of Israel's actions.

    Yeah, it's frustrating but it's also par for the course in these situations - it's not limited to discussions of Israel by any means. Example, I've heard white Americans complain that they can't criticize African-Americans at all lest they be called racists, etc.
    Pepe Silvia wrote:
    are you saying germany is anti-semitic? i am aware of the history but people like yosi say 2 decades ago is too long to hold against anyone, so why hold on to more than twice that?

    I was saying that kind of tongue-in-cheek :) Although, as far as I'm aware there has been a rise in anti-semitic violence across many EU nations.


    yeah, i looked it up after your last post. though, i don't know how they category it as anti-semitism, while i'm sure there are attacks rooted in that but could any just be the wrong place at the wrong time?

    here is the anti-semitic violence report

    http://www.humanrightsfirst.biz/pdf/fd/ ... m-web2.pdf

    here is the anti-muslim violence, though, the US was the only one previously tracking this.

    http://www.eumap.org/library/static/lib ... ganub1.pdf

    same people for both reports
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    yosi wrote:
    I am a Zionist because I believe that Jews have the same right as all other peoples to self-determination in our homeland.
    It's not YOUR land.
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,163
    To clarify, I'm not saying that you are an anti-semite. I don't know you so I couldn't honestly say such a thing. What I AM SAYING is that judging by the obsessiveness of your focus on Israel, and the hysterically negative tone you use when discussing the country it seems fair to me to at least question your motives.

    To put it another way...I am not saying that you are an anti-semite because you attack/criticize Israel. I am saying that perhaps you attack/criticize Israel because you are an anti-semite.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,163
    _outlaw wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    I am a Zionist because I believe that Jews have the same right as all other peoples to self-determination in our homeland.
    It's not YOUR land.

    I beg to differ (and as an aside I do not deny the legitimacy of the Palestinian claim to the land. I believe both Jews and Palestinians have legitimate claims).
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited February 2010
    yosi wrote:
    I beg to differ (and as an aside I do not deny the legitimacy of the Palestinian claim to the land. I believe both Jews and Palestinians have legitimate claims).

    Except that these 'legitimate claims' you speak of don't involve the international consensus of a two-state solution along the 1967 border, but instead involve the right of the Palestinians to accept whatever the Israelis want. I.e, the Palestinians have a legitimate right to live within a number of South African style bantustans, separated from each other by Israeli checkpoints, and with no control over their borders, sea space, or air-space, and with a constant Israeli military presence over their lives, something akin to the Warsaw Ghetto.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • OffHeGoes29
    OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    _outlaw wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    I am a Zionist because I believe that Jews have the same right as all other peoples to self-determination in our homeland.
    It's not YOUR land.

    Well it is now, and they aren't going anywhere.

    All anyone can hope for is a peacefull solution.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • OffHeGoes29
    OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    I beg to differ (and as an aside I do not deny the legitimacy of the Palestinian claim to the land. I believe both Jews and Palestinians have legitimate claims).

    Except that these 'legitimate claims' you speak don't involve the international consensus of a two-state solution along the 1967 border, but instead involve the right of the Palestinians to accept whatever the Israelis want. I.e, the Palestinians have a legitimate right to live within a number of South African style bantustans, separated from each other by Israeli checkpoints, and with no control over their borders, sea space, or air-space, and with a constant Israeli military presence over their lives, something akin to the Warsaw Ghetto.

    You can thank Britain for giving Israel the land.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:

    Well it is now, and they aren't going anywhere.

    All anyone can hope for is a peacefull solution.

    Exactly. The issue of whose claims are more legit is not even relevant anymore, despite the fact that many in the Muslim world and elsewhere continue to flog this dead horse.
  • Sawyer
    Sawyer Posts: 2,411
    ....but why are my Jewish friends so cliquie....they live in Jewish towns, with Jewish wives, in Jewish jobs...there is no assimilation at all...just curious.
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,163
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    I beg to differ (and as an aside I do not deny the legitimacy of the Palestinian claim to the land. I believe both Jews and Palestinians have legitimate claims).

    Except that these 'legitimate claims' you speak don't involve the international consensus of a two-state solution along the 1967 border, but instead involve the right of the Palestinians to accept whatever the Israelis want. I.e, the Palestinians have a legitimate right to live within a number of South African style bantustans, separated from each other by Israeli checkpoints, and with no control over their borders, sea space, or air-space, and with a constant Israeli military presence over their lives, something akin to the Warsaw Ghetto.

    No, I'm talking about a Palestinian state that is contiguous on almost all of the West Bank with some swapped land added in as an exchange for the parts of the West Bank Israel would keep (which would be probably no more than 7% max). Capital in East Jerusalem, a viable agreement on sharing water resouces, and a right of return for Palestinians to the new state of Palestine.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    yosi wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    I beg to differ (and as an aside I do not deny the legitimacy of the Palestinian claim to the land. I believe both Jews and Palestinians have legitimate claims).

    Except that these 'legitimate claims' you speak don't involve the international consensus of a two-state solution along the 1967 border, but instead involve the right of the Palestinians to accept whatever the Israelis want. I.e, the Palestinians have a legitimate right to live within a number of South African style bantustans, separated from each other by Israeli checkpoints, and with no control over their borders, sea space, or air-space, and with a constant Israeli military presence over their lives, something akin to the Warsaw Ghetto.

    No, I'm talking about a Palestinian state that is contiguous on almost all of the West Bank with some swapped land added in as an exchange for the parts of the West Bank Israel would keep (which would be probably no more than 7% max). Capital in East Jerusalem, a viable agreement on sharing water resouces, and a right of return for Palestinians to the new state of Palestine.
    So my grandparents don't have a legitimate claim to their home in Yaffa? Is that what you are telling me? That Russian/Eastern European Jews have more of a legitimate claim to live in Yaffa than my grandfather, who ran a business and traced family roots to these towns, well before he was kicked out of the land by Jewish terrorist gangs? The legitimacy of the Jewish state of Israel in general is at the very least questionable. I can't believe that those who advocate for one-state for two people are seen as crazy, whereas those who defend keeping a racist, Jewish state alive are seen as moderates, even if means creating a Palestinian state, at the mercy of Israel, alongside it. For those of you who don't know, apartheid is alive and well in Israel proper, not just the West Bank and Gaza.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,298
    i absolutely hate how isreal can do whatever the hell it wants without any pressure or sanction from the rest of the civiized world, but that does not make me anti semitic...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    _outlaw wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    I am a Zionist because I believe that Jews have the same right as all other peoples to self-determination in our homeland.
    It's not YOUR land.

    Well it is now, and they aren't going anywhere.

    No it isn't. The occupied territories are illegal under international law, as is the criminal blockade of Gaza.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    I beg to differ (and as an aside I do not deny the legitimacy of the Palestinian claim to the land. I believe both Jews and Palestinians have legitimate claims).

    Except that these 'legitimate claims' you speak don't involve the international consensus of a two-state solution along the 1967 border, but instead involve the right of the Palestinians to accept whatever the Israelis want. I.e, the Palestinians have a legitimate right to live within a number of South African style bantustans, separated from each other by Israeli checkpoints, and with no control over their borders, sea space, or air-space, and with a constant Israeli military presence over their lives, something akin to the Warsaw Ghetto.

    No, I'm talking about a Palestinian state that is contiguous on almost all of the West Bank with some swapped land added in as an exchange for the parts of the West Bank Israel would keep (which would be probably no more than 7% max). Capital in East Jerusalem, a viable agreement on sharing water resouces, and a right of return for Palestinians to the new state of Palestine.

    Exactly. You want it your way, contrary to what lawfully belongs to you. You have no right to these 'parts of the West Bank'. No right whatsoever. And East Jerusalem was occupied in '67 and so also doesn't fit that criteria.

    And meanwhile the illegal settlements keep being built.
  • OffHeGoes29
    OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Byrnzie wrote:

    No it isn't. The occupied territories are illegal under international law, as is the criminal blockade of Gaza.

    I don't think the complete removal of Israel is realistic. You can stop the land development, but a removal of a state thats been there for 60 years isn't going to happen.

    Sounds like you're apart of the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Fan Club; any better then Ten Club when it comes to getting tickets?
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    yosi wrote:
    To clarify, I'm not saying that you are an anti-semite. I don't know you so I couldn't honestly say such a thing. What I AM SAYING is that judging by the obsessiveness of your focus on Israel, and the hysterically negative tone you use when discussing the country it seems fair to me to at least question your motives.

    To put it another way...I am not saying that you are an anti-semite because you attack/criticize Israel. I am saying that perhaps you attack/criticize Israel because you are an anti-semite.


    typical yosi, talking in circles....you aren't saying i'm an anti-semite, just perhaps i am?
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'

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