10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer

he still stands · February 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

You have to look at the foundation of how Muhammad spread his religion. People weren’t buying it until he started his conquest. War spread his religion. Love and selflessness spread Christ’s. This sounds more like a loving God to me than all other teachings.

remember the Crusades?

Gern Blansten · February 2010

Salem Witch Trials?

EddieLedBetter · February 2010

The Crusades began over trying to get the land back that muslims had come to occupy, not to further Christ's teachings. This whole event disagrees with what He taught. Flaws of men not God. Salem witch trials were also against what Christ taught. Once again flaws of men not God. So we can agree that men are sinful and evil, christians and non believers alike.

Gern Blansten · February 2010

I wonder how many fetuses were aborted during the great flood?

PRAISE!!!!

keeponrockin · February 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Love and selflessness spread Christ’s. This sounds more like a loving God to me than all other teachings.

And Crusades... And conquering other nations with missionaries... And ostracizing jews...

Or are we going to forget that?

OutOfBreath · February 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

The Crusades began over trying to get the land back that muslims had come to occupy, not to further Christ's teachings. This whole event disagrees with what He taught. Flaws of men not God. Salem witch trials were also against what Christ taught. Once again flaws of men not God. So we can agree that men are sinful and evil, christians and non believers alike.

You know, the crusades went on for a lot longer and a lot of other places than around Jerusalem. Generally, christian rulers invaded lands of "heathens" because it was frowned upon to attack fellow christians. Germany's expansion in the Baltic for instance. It is however correct that these things didn't have much to do with the "real teachings of Christ" as understood today. For most rulers, heathens were a fitting target for their material expansion, and wars they could get the church's blessing for.

But the question is, how do you think your muslim mirror image would consider acts of violence in the name of islam? Both christianity and islam spread through use of force. Conversions at gunpoint were considered acceptable in it's time. Even in our time, christanity is no guarantee people can't kill eachother over it. (N.Ireland, LRA). So why are muslims worse? The muslim jihad, and the christian missionary declaration are actually pretty similar concepts. Both can be interpreted as "spiritual" or "by force if necessary" and have been.

Peace
Dan

Hugh Freaking Dillon · February 2010

the big answer, if I may return for one more comment, that ELB is getting at, is that everything good about Christianity is God's doing, but everything bad about it is Man's fault. He can explain it all away through that one simple, yet misguided, belief.

markin ball · February 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

The Crusades began over trying to get the land back that muslims had come to occupy, not to further Christ's teachings. This whole event disagrees with what He taught. Flaws of men not God. Salem witch trials were also against what Christ taught. Once again flaws of men not God. So we can agree that men are sinful and evil, christians and non believers alike.

Yes we can. Can we also agree that the something is not necessarily factually correct because people are willing to die for it?

supersonicyears · February 2010

Johnny Sitar wrote:

the big answer, if I may return for one more comment, that ELB is getting at, is that everything good about Christianity is God's doing, but everything bad about it is Man's fault. He can explain it all away through that one simple, yet misguided, belief.

What ELB stated is correct. Once again you attack by saying he is misguided.

Look at the simple rules God has provided. God doesn't want us to force others to believe, God only wants us to present the facts. It's up to you to decide whether to have faith or not. God gives us free will.

I Commandment
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
II Commandment
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor
serve them.
III Commandment
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh
his name in vain.
IV Commandment
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
V Commandment
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth
thee.
VI Commandment
Thou shalt not kill.
VII Commandment
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
VIII Commandment
Thou shalt not steal.
IX Commandment
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
X Commandment
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’ s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant,
nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

pandora · February 2010

thank you The Beach for your post
some of the posts here are just beautiful and I personally like the simple words you wrote
"its up to you to decide to have faith or not"

Gern Blansten · February 2010

TheBeach wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

the big answer, if I may return for one more comment, that ELB is getting at, is that everything good about Christianity is God's doing, but everything bad about it is Man's fault. He can explain it all away through that one simple, yet misguided, belief.

What ELB stated is correct. Once again you attack by saying he is misguided.

Look at the simple rules God has provided. God doesn't want us to force others to believe, God only wants us to present the facts. It's up to you to decide whether to have faith or not. God gives us free will.

I Commandment
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
II Commandment
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor
serve them.
III Commandment
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh
his name in vain.
IV Commandment
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
V Commandment
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth
thee.
VI Commandment
Thou shalt not kill.
VII Commandment
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
VIII Commandment
Thou shalt not steal.
IX Commandment
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
X Commandment
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’ s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant,
nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

seems like rape or child molestation should have made the list above #9, #10, etc

no?

supersonicyears · February 2010

Gern Blansten wrote:

TheBeach wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

the big answer, if I may return for one more comment, that ELB is getting at, is that everything good about Christianity is God's doing, but everything bad about it is Man's fault. He can explain it all away through that one simple, yet misguided, belief.

What ELB stated is correct. Once again you attack by saying he is misguided.

Look at the simple rules God has provided. God doesn't want us to force others to believe, God only wants us to present the facts. It's up to you to decide whether to have faith or not. God gives us free will.

I Commandment
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
II Commandment
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor
serve them.
III Commandment
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh
his name in vain.
IV Commandment
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
V Commandment
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth
thee.
VI Commandment
Thou shalt not kill.
VII Commandment
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
VIII Commandment
Thou shalt not steal.
IX Commandment
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
X Commandment
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’ s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant,
nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

seems like rape or child molestation should have made the list above #9, #10, etc

no?

That would fall under these:
VII Commandment
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
X Commandment
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’ s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant,
nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.[/quote]

Cosmo · February 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

How am I being an asshole? By getting passionate about your attempts to debunk my beliefs? "I said my god man think!" <--what an asshole statement of me to make i apologize. I didn’t call you son of satan, in reply to your Ted Kazanski reference of me when you threw out your attempts to debunk the bible. You don’t agree with Jesus' teachings, not mine or anything I say. That’s that. I see the typical secular lost soul assholieness coming through again. I'm going to throw my arms up and ask you to put me on your ignore list. Who is the hypocrite who cant handle debate here?

...
This is more of that behaviour I was referring to.. I especially like the childish touch, "I see the typical secular lost soul assholieness coming through again. I'm going to throw my arms up and ask you to put me on your ignore list. Who is the hypocrite who cant handle debate here?"... a nice twist, but the base comeback of, "I know you are, but what am I?" would have sufficed. This is just, yet another example that I cannot have a reasoned discussion with most Christians.
And PLEASE... do not try to hide behind 'Passion' when I have never tried to debunk your personal beliefs. The Unabomber Manifesto was directed to the article you posted... which you admitted to was not yours... but, now try to use it in your defense. The way I see it, manifesto is a farce... if you wrote it, then you are the farce. Passion can be and often is expressed without reverting to dickheadedness.
I have asked questions... questions I have run into by your explanations. These questions come to me because i think about them. Your impression that I am not using the thought processes, reasoning and logic.. delivered in your holier than thou response make you appear to be the fool, not me.
Which brings me to your response, 'It was rolled away so people could see inside' brings up another series of questions... Is it possible that someone crept in at night and stole the body of Jesus? Even if guarded... guards cannot be bribed? I got to this question by thinking of this:
If I went to a funeral and saw someone placed in a casket and buried, six feet deep... came back in 3 days to discover the gravesite had been dug up and the casket was empty. I would initially come to the conclusion that someone came in the night and stole the body.
Had I gone back in 3 day and dug up the grave, only to find an empty casket... well, that's a different story. Something else comes into play.
In other words, the opened tomb proves nothing.
...
And finally... thank you for labeling me as 'Lost and Souless'. I do not believe that is what Christian Fellowship teaches... but, it does shine a clearer light on the person I am dealing with.

Cosmo · February 2010

TheBeach wrote:

Look at the simple rules God has provided. God doesn't want us to force others to believe, God only wants us to present the facts. It's up to you to decide whether to have faith or not. God gives us free will.

...
This is what many here have been saying... "It's up to you...".

Hugh Freaking Dillon · February 2010

TheBeach wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

the big answer, if I may return for one more comment, that ELB is getting at, is that everything good about Christianity is God's doing, but everything bad about it is Man's fault. He can explain it all away through that one simple, yet misguided, belief.

What ELB stated is correct. Once again you attack by saying he is misguided.

Look at the simple rules God has provided. God doesn't want us to force others to believe, God only wants us to present the facts. It's up to you to decide whether to have faith or not. God gives us free will.

I Commandment
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
II Commandment
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that
is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor
serve them.
III Commandment
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh
his name in vain.
IV Commandment
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
V Commandment
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth
thee.
VI Commandment
Thou shalt not kill.
VII Commandment
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
VIII Commandment
Thou shalt not steal.
IX Commandment
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
X Commandment
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’ s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant,
nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

you call saying someone has a misguided view as an attack? you'd better grow a bit thicker skin to get through life buddy, if you honestly think that's an "attack". :?

EddieLedBetter · February 2010

Cosmo wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

How am I being an asshole? By getting passionate about your attempts to debunk my beliefs? "I said my god man think!" <--what an asshole statement of me to make i apologize. I didn’t call you son of satan, in reply to your Ted Kazanski reference of me when you threw out your attempts to debunk the bible. You don’t agree with Jesus' teachings, not mine or anything I say. That’s that. I see the typical secular lost soul assholieness coming through again. I'm going to throw my arms up and ask you to put me on your ignore list. Who is the hypocrite who cant handle debate here?

...
This is more of that behaviour I was referring to.. I especially like the childish touch, "I see the typical secular lost soul assholieness coming through again. I'm going to throw my arms up and ask you to put me on your ignore list. Who is the hypocrite who cant handle debate here?"... a nice twist, but the base comeback of, "I know you are, but what am I?" would have sufficed. This is just, yet another example that I cannot have a reasoned discussion with most Christians.
And PLEASE... do not try to hide behind 'Passion' when I have never tried to debunk your personal beliefs. The Unabomber Manifesto was directed to the article you posted... which you admitted to was not yours... but, now try to use it in your defense. The way I see it, manifesto is a farce... if you wrote it, then you are the farce. Passion can be and often is expressed without reverting to dickheadedness.
I have asked questions... questions I have run into by your explanations. These questions come to me because i think about them. Your impression that I am not using the thought processes, reasoning and logic.. delivered in your holier than thou response make you appear to be the fool, not me.
Which brings me to your response, 'It was rolled away so people could see inside' brings up another series of questions... Is it possible that someone crept in at night and stole the body of Jesus? Even if guarded... guards cannot be bribed? I got to this question by thinking of this:
If I went to a funeral and saw someone placed in a casket and buried, six feet deep... came back in 3 days to discover the gravesite had been dug up and the casket was empty. I would initially come to the conclusion that someone came in the night and stole the body.
Had I gone back in 3 day and dug up the grave, only to find an empty casket... well, that's a different story. Something else comes into play.
In other words, the opened tomb proves nothing.
...
And finally... thank you for labeling me as 'Lost and Souless'. I do not believe that is what Christian Fellowship teaches... but, it does shine a clearer light on the person I am dealing with.

I said lost soul not "lost and souless". The bible does in fact refer to people who havent found God through Jesus as lost sheep. I added soul because thats the seat of our emotions. The heart and soul.

"I know you are but what am I" would have sufficed usually means someone is the first attacker. Like you said "This is just, yet another example that I cannot have a reasoned discussion with most non-Christians." See how that works both ways? That being said maybe what you've experienced here is what the bible calls "my" sinful nature coming through. If I were a good Christ follower I would have held my tongue and not let your comments get to me thus envoking my passionate emotions. I'm not a perfect christian, I'm a sinner.

I wasn’t arguing that because the tomb was opened it proved he rose from the dead just the fact that it was opened so people could see for themselves. Would it have made you believe if it would have stayed closed but then opened by Pilate himself and the body was missing?

On to "if the guards were bribed to let his followers take the body". I'm assuming that at that time the guards would have been put to death anyway for losing the body but say they were given the benefit of the doubt. Would you lie for money if you faced death to protect a secret like a bribe? Would you tell the truth for fear of losing your life?

True you've asked questions but the answers I've given in favor of Jesus haven’t been good enough and never will be. Why don’t you want what Jesus taught to be true? I guess that should be the question. Why is it that people find it offensive when someone tells them they are a sinner and need God? God said this through Jesus not Christians.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · February 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Why is it that people find it offensive when someone tells them they are a sinner and need God? God said this through Jesus not Christians.

it's offensive (not to mention insanely arrogant) to tell people what they need in life. frankly, you don't know shit. just like I don't know what you need in your life. So with regards to you, I don't know shit either.

It's pretty simple.

redrock · February 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I added soul because thats the seat of our emotions.

The 'soul' is based on religious or spiritual traditions. I would say what 'spiritual' people would call the soul, I would call the 'psyche' which, as a non-believer, refers to my 'self'. The seat of our emotions is in various parts of the brain, where they are created, stored and actioned upon (or not). So really, losing/damaging one's 'soul' would be through brain damage. God/Jesus has nothing to do with one's 'soul'.

Cosmo · February 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

True you've asked questions but the answers I've given in favor of Jesus haven’t been good enough and never will be. Why don’t you want what Jesus taught to be true? I guess that should be the question. Why is it that people find it offensive when someone tells them they are a sinner and need God? God said this through Jesus not Christians.

...
You have not answered one thing... and I do not expect answers from you... especially after some of the things you have written in here.
As for your questions:
God said this through Jesus not Christians
I try to follow the teachings of Christ. But that whole resurrection thing... I'm still not convinced because I understand the history of Man and the Church and do not place blind trust in either. For me, Jesus lives in His teachings.
Why is it that people find it offensive when someone tells them they are a sinner and need God?
Because who are YOU to tell us that? Who put YOU in charge of telling us we are sinners? It is offensive to us because YOU think you are the one who needs to show us... you are not our salvation... we reject you. We do not reject Jesus... or God.. or the Christian faith... we reject you.
...
And don't try to lean on this:
God said this through Jesus not Christians.
The truth of the matter is... Christians, specifically the Bishops of Emperor Constintine said that God said this through Jesus according to the New Testament that was created by the early Church of Rome.

EddieLedBetter · February 2010

Cosmo wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

True you've asked questions but the answers I've given in favor of Jesus haven’t been good enough and never will be. Why don’t you want what Jesus taught to be true? I guess that should be the question. Why is it that people find it offensive when someone tells them they are a sinner and need God? God said this through Jesus not Christians.

...
You have not answered one thing... and I do not expect answers from you... especially after some of the things you have written in here.
As for your questions:
God said this through Jesus not Christians
I try to follow the teachings of Christ. But that whole resurrection thing... I'm still not convinced because I understand the history of Man and the Church and do not place blind trust in either. For me, Jesus lives in His teachings.
Why is it that people find it offensive when someone tells them they are a sinner and need God?
Because who are YOU to tell us that? Who put YOU in charge of telling us we are sinners? It is offensive to us because YOU think you are the one who needs to show us... you are not our salvation... we reject you. We do not reject Jesus... or God.. or the Christian faith... we reject you.
...
And don't try to lean on this:
God said this through Jesus not Christians.
The truth of the matter is... Christians, specifically the Bishops of Emperor Constintine said that God said this through Jesus according to the New Testament that was created by the early Church of Rome.

It wasnt created by the early church of rome it was compiled, there is a difference there. They had the best intentions when they "compiled" it. True after they saw the power aspect that arose the roman catholic church began to use that power. They pray to a holy mother mary. This isnt biblical. No one is holy but God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.

For me, Jesus lives in His teachings.
This is the best thing that you've said to me. So resurrection aside, if you believe what he taught then you believe that he said you are a sinner and no man could come to know god without confessing that Jesus can forgive your sins with his sacrifice?

10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer

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