"The List"

jaselynch · December 2009

Hey guys,

I just wanted to get everyones opinions on what they think about the unofficial 10c list for those who line up early.

I have to say I'm torn. In Adelaide I was there quite early and was about 50th in line. Quite a few late comers came and jumped in with their other ticket holder in front of me and it seemed ok. There was no list.

Then in Melbourne I camped out. Had a very awesome spot in the line. Through out the day I reckon 10 or so people jumped in front of us with their mates. Again fair enough. It wasn't out of hand. I didn't mind. There was no list.

In Sydney I sold my 2nd 10c ticket to Jaye who I met in Melbourne. She camped overnight. Because I was back home and my wife was sick due to a stillbirth the week before I thought id stay with her and join Jaye in the line mid morning. However in Sydney there was a list without warning and I ended up back in the line quite a bit.

I have to say I was pretty pissed off. The two times I was there early I lost places due to late arrivals. Particularly Melbourne, camping out and having people arrive at 4pm before the show and going in front of me. It wouldn't have bothered me but th fact that I couldn't join my "partner" in Sydney kinda made it feel very unfair.

So as you can see I'm torn. Your thoughts?

vital5 · December 2009

A list shouldn't exist at all. When does the list officially start?
Could someone start a list at all the possible venues for Pearl Jam's next tour in Australia right this very minute?

I'm guessing the lists were started by the people who were not willing to stay in line all day, and if this is the case, they don't deserve their spot held at all.

If you want to be so hardcore and line up (and I don't frown upon anyone for this act), you stay there... don't move out of line at all... else you lose your spot.

Do your bit for tourism, book a hotel in the city of the tour, have a good sleep and a shower, without the need for a newspaper blanket... save lining up for the concert day... because anyone that needs the list to come and go as they please.. doesn't deserve the rail at all...

jaselynch · December 2009

This list isn't so that people can come and go though. The list is so that the people that line up the night before or overnight get their rightful spot. And part i agree with.

vital5 · December 2009

Jaswah wrote:

This list isn't so that people can come and go though. The list is so that the people that line up the night before or overnight get their rightful spot. And part i agree with.

So if you haven't moved from your spot at all... why is there a need for getting your rightful spot via a list?
With early entry for the fanclub, no one even needed to camp out... I also saw plenty of people that used the list and numbers to come and go... I guess "rules" of the line were made up to please themselves... which ultimately shits on the other people who stayed lined up the whole time...

bazzer · December 2009

I was pretty ambivalent about the list going into it. I'd heard the stories. To be honest, it worked pretty well in Auckland and Christchurch. Most (all) of the people on the list still hung around all day, it just meant you didn't have to stay stuck to one spot. Particularly useful when they kept moving us around.

It ends up being about respect. The list doesn't help that. Your early experiences show respect without a list. In Auckland the people around me were cool enough to let my wife come in with me even though she couldn't get off work until later, I guess they were happy enough that I was there all day. I hope she made up for it and proved herself by lining up in the cold in Christchurch from the morning.

Having said that, I did prepare them for the fact during the day by letting the people to the back of me know that she'd be late, or rather ask them if it would be OK. As it turned out she was super super late and only just made it in time for early entry thanks to issues with the bus, but the people around me were cool (like you were at your early concerts) and it all worked out I think.

If people are going to be arses, the list won't help that. I guess the fact it was stinking hot in Sydney didn't help things. I don't know how the lists work overseas, but I didn't mind if a few people let in their +1s in front of me. It could get out of hand though, I suppose.

redrock · December 2009

bazzer wrote:

I don't know how the lists work overseas, but I didn't mind if a few people let in their +1s in front of me. It could get out of hand though, I suppose.

They seem to work quite well in Europe. I guess it allows people who queue up to have a toilet break, get a bit of food, etc. As one said, it's all about respect.

DonJon · December 2009

Argh the pleasures of walking in at the back of the 10c queue

. Avoids sitting in the sun all day, getting to explore the city or eat and drink and then you dont become involved in the Pearl Jam Home & Away stories

Wasnt there a list started at 3am one morning on a beer can or something.

Sorry Jaswah not taking the piss out of your thread or coming in here with nonconstructive comments but I just heard so much crap/funny stuff about this "List" it sorta makes me laugh.

Will it all be ironed out for the 2011 tour I wonder? Maybe someone should be appointed "List Nazi"

Back to work

Red_Dot · December 2009

I just don’t understand the point of a list. If you need to go to the toilet or get food, the people behind you are in the same situation and surely would understand leaving the line and coming back to the same spot if it just for a couple of minutes.

LeatherMosquitoMan · December 2009

Jaswah wrote:

In Sydney I sold my 2nd 10c ticket to Jaye who I met in Melbourne. She camped overnight. Because I was back home and my wife was sick due to a stillbirth the week before I thought id stay with her and join Jaye in the line mid morning. However in Sydney there was a list without warning and I ended up back in the line quite a bit.

I'm so, so sorry to hear about this. My thoughts go out to you and your wife.

Paul Andrews · December 2009

The Sydney list was excellent. It allowed those of us who had arrived very early (or slept out) the chance to get refreshments, toilets and even showers without losing our spot. I was number 17 on the list and spent most of the day in line as did everyone else. I arrived at 7:30am and apart from getting food, drinks and toilet runs was there all day - as was everyone I knew.

In Melbourne I arrived at about 7:30 as well and apart from there being no list, things seemed to work the same. I was about 20th in line and once again had my spot held when I needed to go to the toilet or food/drink or merchandise runs. 10c members looked after each other.

The lists have no real authority, but was a good honour system for people to work with. I didn't see anyone abusing the system and congratulate those who initiated it.

The Sydney List...

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/phot ... 1034005553

Paul Andrews · December 2009

Jaswah wrote:

In Sydney I sold my 2nd 10c ticket to Jaye who I met in Melbourne. She camped overnight. Because I was back home and my wife was sick due to a stillbirth the week before I thought id stay with her and join Jaye in the line mid morning. However in Sydney there was a list without warning and I ended up back in the line quite a bit.

Jaswah, Deepest sympathies to you and your family. For what it is worth, you did the right thing to be by your wife's side and I'd have gladly let you in or given up my spot if I'd known your story, and I'm sure all those on the list would have. Was it you that Eddie dedicated the song to?

surfanddestroy · December 2009

I think the list is a very childish thing to do, grownups should be able to handle being in a line without having to create a list of who is where :roll:

Brisk. · December 2009

surfanddestroy wrote:

I think the list is a very childish thing to do, grownups should be able to handle being in a line without having to create a list of who is where :roll:

well you would think that wouldn't you...because some people dont understand what 'queueing' is and understand some people queue for longer than others and therefore that means you get the right to be ahead/behind them.

the +1 issue can be rather annoying in all fairness but unless its a close friend who would appreciate it then i would let them in. Otherwise if i'm just giving my spare to a random then they go away.

surfanddestroy · December 2009

Brisk. wrote:

well you would think that wouldn't you...because some people dont understand what 'queueing' is and understand some people queue for longer than others and therefore that means you get the right to be ahead/behind them.

What the hell is that meant to mean?

Brisk. · December 2009

surfanddestroy wrote:

Brisk. wrote:

well you would think that wouldn't you...because some people dont understand what 'queueing' is and understand some people queue for longer than others and therefore that means you get the right to be ahead/behind them.

What the hell is that meant to mean?

we need a list... :roll:

surfanddestroy · December 2009

Brisk. wrote:

we need a list... :roll:

It's not needed and seems to cause more arguments than if people where just left to queue like adults.

Brisk. · December 2009

surfanddestroy wrote:

Brisk. wrote:

we need a list... :roll:

It's not needed and seems to cause more arguments than if people where just left to queue like adults.

re read my post... some people arn't adults and dont understand the concept of queueing..

eMMI · December 2009

I've been on the list once (Copenhagen I think it was..), I was #68 or something.

it.. it was alright..

I think people stopped writing their names on the list somewhere after 70. the thing is, the list probably worked alright at the front of the queue, but there were some disgruntled people at the back.

in Europe, as it seems to be the same people at the front of queues every time, I'm not sure if the list works very well. I don't know, I'm not fond of the whole list thing but my thoughts may be affected by how I feel about queuing for two weeks before the damn show.. :?

Paul Andrews · December 2009

Given that the band's crew and Sydney security staff recognised the list and respected it proved to me it was done correctly and with good intentions. In a perfect world it would not be needed, but this is far from a perfect world and this was a great example of fans helping fans. I think it is unfair to call people 'list-nazis' or similar, it was people trying to protect each other and make a long hot day a little easier and bareable for all. The list was not childish, esp given that overnight stadium security moved people on and people who had been waiting all night would have lost their places.

Melbourne worked just as well without a list and essentially the same people in line. Both were prime cases of people combining for good and little more. In both cases, those who had really put in the hard yards had the chance to be in the first couple of rows in the spot of their choice.

Given Pearl Jam came on around 8pm, those who had been there for 12, 18 and in some cases 24 hours deserved a great spot and to be respected in the line. The list just made this easier.

As previously stated, I for one would have offered a spot to the OP without question or been quite happy to have seen a Jayne +1 on the list.

surfanddestroy · December 2009

Paul Andrews wrote:

esp given that overnight stadium security moved people on and people who had been waiting all night would have lost their places.

I'm sorry but thats their own fault for starting queueing so early.

Just because you have queued all day does not make you more deserving to be at the front everybody has paid the same price so therefore all deserve it.
Some people have responsibilities and are not able to queue all day, this does not make them less deserving of getting a good spot.

eMMI · December 2009

surfanddestroy wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

esp given that overnight stadium security moved people on and people who had been waiting all night would have lost their places.

I'm sorry but thats their own fault for starting queueing so early.

Just because you have queued all day does not make you more deserving to be at the front everybody has paid the same price so therefore all deserve it.
Some people have responsibilities and are not able to queue all day, this does not make them less deserving of getting a good spot.

:thumbup: very well said.

Paul Andrews · December 2009

surfanddestroy wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

esp given that overnight stadium security moved people on and people who had been waiting all night would have lost their places.

I'm sorry but thats their own fault for starting queueing so early.

Just because you have queued all day does not make you more deserving to be at the front everybody has paid the same price so therefore all deserve it.
Some people have responsibilities and are not able to queue all day, this does not make them less deserving of getting a good spot.

Sorry, but yes it does make them less deserving. That's GA for you - first come, best dressed. While I'd never arrive the night before (7:30am was my limit) and will gladly be behind anyone who does, if someone arrives first, they deserve to be first in the door.

If you have 'responsibilities' or other 'priorities' then you arrive later and get the spot in line according to your arrival time. No-one arrived, put their name on the list and then left, everyone stayed and only left to get supplies.

ZiggyStar · December 2009

I was on the list in Sydney, Auckland and Christchurch and got the rail in front of Ed in Sydney (thanks Paul Andrews -- I was actually behind Paul but he let me in front of him because I'm so short and he's so nice) and got the rail in front of Mike twice in NZ -- exactly where I wanted to be.

I love the list. haha Worked out super for me! At Auckland I left for half hour to put merch in a car. At Christchurch I left to walk back to my hotel because I forgot my ID. Then left again to walk my merch back to the hotel. Both trips took at least an hour. I think the system worked really well.

bazzer · December 2009

surfanddestroy wrote:

Just because you have queued all day does not make you more deserving to be at the front everybody has paid the same price so therefore all deserve it.
Some people have responsibilities and are not able to queue all day, this does not make them less deserving of getting a good spot.

It's probably exactly this attitude that necessitates the use of a list. People turn up at 4pm for a 4.15 early entry and expect to get in at the same time or before the people that have been lining up all day? Are you kidding?

You're right that everybody paid the same price, therefore they all get the same chance to get to the front. Of course, not everyone can be at the front so you have to differentiate somehow. I'd think it's obvious that the people who get their early are using their chance to the full, whereas the people that get there just before entry are squandering theirs. I know people have responsibilities, but that's the way things work. Why should you be able to push your way to the front past people who've waiting all day just because you want to?

After waiting all day in Auckland and Christchurch, I thought it was quite funny to see people rocking up at 4pm and surprised that they weren't going to be first in the venue. Having said that, I think, at least in those cities, all the 10C members got really good spots. At least until the "plebs" pushed their ways to the front in Auckland anyway... I do feel a bit sorry for the regular GA people that were lining up since the early morning!

eMMI · December 2009

bazzer wrote:

surfanddestroy wrote:

Just because you have queued all day does not make you more deserving to be at the front everybody has paid the same price so therefore all deserve it.
Some people have responsibilities and are not able to queue all day, this does not make them less deserving of getting a good spot.

It's probably exactly this attitude that necessitates the use of a list. People turn up at 4pm for a 4.15 early entry and expect to get in at the same time or before the people that have been lining up all day? Are you kidding?

You're right that everybody paid the same price, therefore they all get the same chance to get to the front. Of course, not everyone can be at the front so you have to differentiate somehow. I'd think it's obvious that the people who get their early are using their chance to the full, whereas the people that get there just before entry are squandering theirs. I know people have responsibilities, but that's the way things work. Why should you be able to push your way to the front past people who've waiting all day just because you want to?

After waiting all day in Auckland and Christchurch, I thought it was quite funny to see people rocking up at 4pm and surprised that they weren't going to be first in the venue. Having said that, I think, at least in those cities, all the 10C members got really good spots. At least until the "plebs" pushed their ways to the front in Auckland anyway... I do feel a bit sorry for the regular GA people that were lining up since the early morning!

I'm sure she's not saying that those that arrive later should be let to the front of the queue.

Terryible · December 2009

I don't really give a shit about the list, I personally don't think there should be one as it just cause arguments

The one thing that did piss me off, if you are going to get there early or camp over night, pick your shit up and put it into a rubbish bin before entering the stadium, both the gigs I went to the front of the ten club line was a disgrace with rubbish on the ground.

bazzer · December 2009

eMMI wrote:

bazzer wrote:

surfanddestroy wrote:

Just because you have queued all day does not make you more deserving to be at the front everybody has paid the same price so therefore all deserve it.
Some people have responsibilities and are not able to queue all day, this does not make them less deserving of getting a good spot.

It's probably exactly this attitude that necessitates the use of a list. People turn up at 4pm for a 4.15 early entry and expect to get in at the same time or before the people that have been lining up all day? Are you kidding?

You're right that everybody paid the same price, therefore they all get the same chance to get to the front. Of course, not everyone can be at the front so you have to differentiate somehow. I'd think it's obvious that the people who get their early are using their chance to the full, whereas the people that get there just before entry are squandering theirs. I know people have responsibilities, but that's the way things work. Why should you be able to push your way to the front past people who've waiting all day just because you want to?

After waiting all day in Auckland and Christchurch, I thought it was quite funny to see people rocking up at 4pm and surprised that they weren't going to be first in the venue. Having said that, I think, at least in those cities, all the 10C members got really good spots. At least until the "plebs" pushed their ways to the front in Auckland anyway... I do feel a bit sorry for the regular GA people that were lining up since the early morning!

I'm sure she's not saying that those that arrive later should be let to the front of the queue.

That's exactly how I interpret "Just because you have queued all day does not make you more deserving to be at the front everybody has paid the same price so therefore all deserve it.". It is saying everybody paid the same so everybody deserves to be at the front, regardless of what time they arrive.

RockMama · December 2009

You don't need a list. You need reserved seats like in the US.

bazzer · December 2009

RockMama wrote:

You don't need a list. You need reserved seats like in the US.

An "official" list

I was a big reserved seating fan, but my number is not fantastic. Even in NZ, I wouldn't have got the spot I got with my number. Since they come here so infrequently, I didn't mind lining up a couple of days. If I saw them more often, it wouldn't be worth it probably for me, especially if I was travelling to do it, I'd want to take in the sights too, so reserved seating would suit me there. Still, once in a while it was nice to be able to put in the hard yards and get a great spot.

vital5 · December 2009

a queue early is fine... a list is a load of shite...

if you can't stay in the queue without having to leave to do things, then you've obviously lined up way too early.

obviously the people praising the list (which allowed you to come and go from the queue, wtf?) didn't get fucked over by it

Paul Andrews · December 2009

vital5 wrote:

a queue early is fine... a list is a load of shite...

if you can't stay in the queue without having to leave to do things, then you've obviously lined up way too early.

obviously the people praising the list (which allowed you to come and go from the queue, wtf?) didn't get fucked over by it

I don't think this is the case at all. As I said, comparing the Sydney and Melbourne lines, they both worked well, one with and one without a 'list'. It comes down to fair play and respect of each other. I had a great time in the lines, met some great people and enjoyed the time. Someone holding your spot while you get something to eat, drink or go to the toilet is fine. People were able to visit a mechendise tent and then drop the items off in a car or whatever. However, it was not OK for people to come and put their name on the list and then disappear until the end of the day - and that did not happen. Everyone spent almost all the day in the line and 'paid their dues'.

I think you either have a list like what i experienced in Sydney, a honour system like Melbourne or you have to make a rule that there is to be no queing before a certain time and once that time comes, there is no leaving the que at all. But either way, people pushing or running to the front was not allowed and security made sure no-one broke this rule. At the end of the day it is about safety and fairness.

I fail to see how anyone could be 'fucked over' by a list? Please enlighten me as I'm sure there could be the odd case, but I would have thought that in the spirit of fairness, people would have compassion for those who were 'fucked over' and help them out.

I agree with the rubbish situation but where i was, venue staff made a couple of visits with rubbish bags and everyone around me deposited their rubbish in the bags, but there will always be those who don't and I make no excuses for them at all.

&quot;The List&quot;

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"The List"