JFK assassination theories
Comments
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The problem I have always had with making it that big a conspiracy is that people suck at keeping secrets. I mean I could totally buy that a few mob bosses took that kind of secret to the grave (especially if it made them a lot of money). But when you start to get the magnitude of conspiracy you are describing there are tons of people who would have to be in on it. If just one person tells someone and it gets out the whole thing is blown.[/quote]
why would a ton of people have to be involved or know about it? there's plenty of black ops practically no one knows about[/quote]
i sort of agree with him. i mean, people around here are talking about a big conspiracy involving the VP, cia, fbi, the mafia, and who knows who else... that's a lot of people to keep quiet without one person blowing a whistle somewhere. i like to think it's not easy to bump into people in the cia and fbi that are totally cool with black ops to kill a sitting president. i'm a cynic, but i also know people that have worked in the field and they're largely decent people. it's not like you can just walk into langley and say "hey, i wanna pop the president, it's good for business, anyone wanna help?"[/quote]
We dont live in a vaccum. There have been countless people who have talked about their knowledge of how both Kennedys died, or how MLK died, or Roswell, or whatever. You make it sound like no one has EVER come forward and spoken about what they knew in any situation where conspiracy is suspected. Thats bunk plain and simple.
I also think Oswald WAS involved. I think he was, what he always claimed to be "a patsy". I think they recruited him, they ended up getting a ton of people involved, including the CIA agents i listed, Oswald knew all this, and was silenced for his troubles. Jack Ruby, now theres another twist and turn in the case.
Talk about whistleblowers folks, this is my point. Oswald was claiming his was a patsy, publicly from the moment they arrested him. Thats someone not keeping their mouths shut. He blew the whistle. Secondly, Jack Ruby, also blew the whistle. He publicly stated many times, that he acted not for himself, but that he was doing LBJ's bidding. That the answer "goes all the way to the guy in office right now" he said.
Again, how was these 2 confessions taken by the media, or the public? Were they looked at as serious, important and real statements about the nature of one of the most important events in American History, or were they written off as the statements of 2 people who were deranged?0 -
Kel Varnsen wrote:
The problem I have always had with making it that big a conspiracy is that people suck at keeping secrets. I mean I could totally buy that a few mob bosses took that kind of secret to the grave (especially if it made them a lot of money). But when you start to get the magnitude of conspiracy you are describing there are tons of people who would have to be in on it. If just one person tells someone and it gets out the whole thing is blown.
a lot of people have come forward.....they have been ignored.
typical.0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:
I disagree. People always use this excuse to explain away stuff like this. In general, as a student of history, just crack a history book and read about COINTELPRO and MKULTRA, and other things like that. Conspiracys happen.
Things like MKULTRA kind of prove my point. The CIA tried to have a secret operation and it totally leaked because there were so many people involved in it.0 -
Kel Varnsen wrote:
Things like MKULTRA kind of prove my point. The CIA tried to have a secret operation and it totally leaked because there were so many people involved in it.
yes, but MKULTRA happened not just here but in other countries, it was a pretty big operation. i still don't think it would have to take all that many people to do something like this, especially if the CIA were involved. huge operations get found out eventually a lot of the time because there's just too many people, smaller black ops stay secret pretty much forever and don't need a ton of people or experiment subjects.don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
I believe that whistles ARE blown most of the time... It's just that you have no recourse against almost any agency in the federal government whether they are exposed or not. Too many people are afraid of losing their jobs of their lives, and things are easier swept under a rug.
Another point to consider with conspiracies, particularly involving the government, people rarely question or call out their superiors, whether it's police, military, FBI, CIA, etc... mostly for the reasons I have mentioned above. It's a pyramid structure, and if it's corrupt at the top, it's corrupt all the way on down. The major differences are that at the top is where the planning and action happens, which is protected by security and secrecy clearances. The corruption towards the bottom is merely failing to take any action correcting the wrongdoing of their superiors.0 -
Once multiple theories pick up steam, you will never convince some people of the truth, no matter how much evidence is laid before them. LBJ himself could have confessed and people would say the mafia made him...
If you were planning some big conspiracy, you would be sure to have multiple stories ready to unleash on the public right away. All it would take is a couple of phone calls to reporters while the 'facts' are being determined, and the media would run with it long enough for the theory to get some traction, and cause confusion and dissent between anyone looking into it for eternity...
But this is what makes these discussions so interesting.
I wish driftin was around for this one; he seems to be the go-to authority on JFK around here. The link he posted a year or two ago about a JFK jr assasination theory was good food for thought.0 -
I will never understand why so many things have these conspiracy theories behind them. Why can't one guy kill a president? Why can't Marilyn Monroe take an overdose? Why couldn't U.S. astronauts land on the moon?
It happened.Save room for dessert!0 -
Because it's so much more fascinating to take an event and extrapolate it to the furthest extreme. Especially if it occurred during a time when people were fearful and had good reason to mistrust information from their government.Heatherj43 wrote:I will never understand why so many things have these conspiracy theories behind them. Why can't one guy kill a president? Why can't Marilyn Monroe take an overdose? Why couldn't U.S. astronauts land on the moon?
It happened.
I think the Kennedy assassination is the granddaddy of conspiracy theories, or maybe it just seems that way to me because I live near Dallas and I was alive when it happened. There are lots of people in this area who are conspiracy experts, so I've been hearing about it for a very long time. I used to believe there was a conspiracy. I don't anymore. I know I'm in the minority so I don't debate it very often.
Just seems to me that if there was an organized effort to kill a sitting president they would have picked a more logical venue with fewer risks of a slip up. This one had all the fingerprints of a grandstander who wanted to be in the public eye. Particularly since he made an attempt on another public figure several weeks earlier.
But like I said, that's just me."The stars are all connected to the brain."0 -
Heatherj43 wrote:I will never understand why so many things have these conspiracy theories behind them. Why can't one guy kill a president? Why can't Marilyn Monroe take an overdose? Why couldn't U.S. astronauts land on the moon?
It happened.
wow well said, but ain't a conspiracy a bit more interesting then the lone gunman story
remember all the Elvis sighting's ? ha ha I don't beleieve the bigfoot story's or the ufo theory's
either, I'm a show me kinda person.
all the stuff I have read and watched on t.v is too full of hole's for me to believe the lone gunman story
but who really knows ?
Godfather.0 -
Heatherj43 wrote:I will never understand why so many things have these conspiracy theories behind them. Why can't one guy kill a president? Why can't Marilyn Monroe take an overdose? Why couldn't U.S. astronauts land on the moon?
It happened.
i think the speculation with Marilyn Monroe comes from....forget the term, but when you die the blood settles down because o gravity and it is no longer pumping through your body, so it settles down and leaves discoloration. when Monroe was found they swore the body wasn't moved....she was found on her stomach....but the discoloration from the blood was on her back, so she had to have been flipped over onto her belly after she died. there were other things but i never really looked too far into it.
with Kennedy, Bill Hicks had it right: it's as easy as 'back and to the left' if you get hit in the head from a bullet your head should go in the direction the bullet was going, not the opposite. shoot a soda can and then tell me if it was knocked backwards or flew forward towards youdon't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
LBJ was a diversion.
He MAY have had SOME involvement IN THE COVER UP, and he may have been induced in to SOME involvement before the fact, but i would assume any such involvement would have been very LIMITED.
The confession of E. Howard Hunt definitely makes it VERY hard to disbelieve JFK conspiracy in general, as Hunt was NEVER one to fabricate stories for his own aggrandizement. In fact, Hunt went out of his way to SUE, in civil court, a magazine that attempted to link him to the assassination way back in the 1980's.
Beyond the miles and miles of discrepancies, falsifications, and cover-ups that CLEARLY point to US government involvement (along with several OTHER factions: ie. mafia, vatican, private oil interests, ALL neatly inter-related in a swirling chain of elitist interests) in the murder of our first Catholic president, "Number Thirty Five", i believe it is Hunt's confession itself which seals the deal. The man just had ZERO cause to outright lie about his (and his colleagues at the CIA) involvement in Kennedy's murder.
His facts jive neatly with several other sources, including Oswald himself, who was convinced that his contact in Mexico, codenamed "Mr. Bishop" or "Maurice Bishop", was indeed David Atlee Phillips, the CIA's then Director of Operations for the Western Hemisphere.
Beyond those implicated (named directly) by EH Hunt, one has to expand the circle further to get closer to the "real" truth.
Those OTHER players most probably involved (implicated either by motive, or by circumstance) are:
Allen Dulles -- founding CIA director, still director until he was fired by Kennedy after Bay of Pigs, would have had a HUGE grudge on this account. He was also the second director of the Council on Foreign Relations, and had previously been a Princeton graduate law partern at Sullivan & Cromwell -- the mega international law firm that was in part responsible for the formation of General Electric AND US. Steel, has massive ties to Wall Street mega banks, the Rockefellers, the DuPont's, etc etc. He ALSO HAD INTIMATE ASSOCIATIONS WITH THE BUSH FAMILY, BROWN BROTHERS HARRIMAN, IG FARBEN, AND THE NAZI REICH [this is further expounded upon in the epic expose against the Bushs, Family of Secrets, by Russ Baker].
He ALSO WAS ALLEGEDLY ONE OF THE KNIGHTS OF MALTA.
George Herbert Walker Bush -- all you need to do is read Family of Secrets by Russ Bakers to have MORE than a fucking handful of SERIOUSLY DAMNING questions for Mr. President, New World Order proponent & Former CIA Director George HW Bush.
He, like EH Hunt, WAS IN DALLAS THE NIGHT BEFORE and (as Russ Baker proves) THE DAY OF KENNEDY'S MURDER. There is a phone conversation transcript of him phoning the FBI just minutes after the Kennedy story broke to report a suspicious fellow who he alleges made threats against the president's life. Why was this information given to the FBI AFTER JFK's death? Why was the man he accuses WORKING UNDER BUSH as a volunteer at the Young Republicans association in texas? WHY DID HE END UP ON BUSH'S CAMPAIGN STAFF 3 DECADES LATER !??! Why did George De Mohrenschildt (Russian emigre, and admitted close associate of Oswald) write a PERSONAL letter to George HW Bush when he was CIA director in the mid-late 70s requesting help for FEAR OF HIS LIFE? After being reassured by Bush personally that this was a misunderstanding, and that he was in no danger, WHY DID DE MOHRENSCHILDT END UP DEAD IN HIS HOME JUST BEFORE TESTIFYING IN FRONT OF CONGRESS ON THE MATTER OF JFK'S ASSASSINATION?
Anyhow.
The Owners of the Federal Reserve -- Largely the same players as many others mentioned elsewhere in Kennedy conspiracy theory, these folks would have been LIVID about Kennedy's EO 11110 which gave authority back to the Treasury itself to PRINT NON FEDERAL-RESERVE, GOLD\SILVER BACKED HARD CURRENCY.
The Oil Fat Cats -- again, largely overlapping with both CIA and Fed Res interests, these fuckers would also have been LIVID about Kennedy's plans to substantially reduce the Oil Depletion allowance tax credit scheme.
The Mafia -- and particularly Johnny Roselli and Sam Giancana (both of whom turned up dead around the time of the House Select Committee Investigations, along with De Mohrenschildt) are implicated by sources left and right in this matter. There names ALSO dubiously appear in the CIA's OWN paper trail, as part of "The Jewel Files" which, under Item #2 (Item #1 being ENTIRELY redacted, and most likely being an admission about JFK's assassination itself!) lists these two figures as being HIRED BY THE US GOVERNMENT TO ASSASSINATE CASTRO!
The Vatican -- POSSIBLY THE ULTIMATE PLAYER IN THIS WHOLE GAME, the Vatican has direct and covert links to just about every other player heretofore named in the conspiracy. Certainly they are very well linked to The Mafia, and to the Nazis, but also one only needs to look to the large number of meetings US officials have with Cardinals and the Pope to understand just how interconnected the Vatican Government (and all its shady goings-on) is to the not-so-open workings of the US Government (and the "intelligence" agencies in particular).
Okay.
That's my summary in brief.
PS -- Check out the "death bed" confession of Chauncey Holt, a CIA criminal for hire, who lays bare a great swath of the behind the scenes workings of the Kennedy assassination. Perhaps nothing of enormous import, but certainly a LOT of interesting facts that will lead to a better understanding of what was going on at the ground level that day -- like why the "three tramps" were in that railroad car at all, how the fake SS indentifcations were made, more backstory on oswald, etc.
Also, for the serious JFK (RFK, AND Jonestown also) afficianado, EVIDENCE OF REVISION is a MUST SEE DOCUMENTARY!!!
PPS -- FOR THOSE THAT THINK "ALL THIS NONSENSE" IS FAR TO GRANDIOSE TO HAVE EVER BEEN PULLED OFF WITHOUT SOMEONE COMING OUT, BLOWING THE WHISTLE, AND RUINING THINGS, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK TO THE VIETNAM WAR TO UNDERSTAND JUST HOW BIG A CONSPIRACY CAN GET WITHOUT BEING BLOWN.
For fucks sake, THE ENTIRE WAR WAS FABRICATED ON AN OUTRIGHT, AND NOW ADMITTED, FALSEHOOD -- that is, THE GULF OF TONKIN INCIDENT WAS ENTIRELY FALSE! THE VIETNAMESE NEVER ATTACKED US SHIPS WITHOUT PROVOCATION!
If you think the assassination of ONE MAN trumps THE WAGING OF A DECADE LONG HOT GROUND WAR THAT KILLED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF US CITIZENS, AND COUNTLESS VIETNAMESE & CAMBODIANS, then you need to reevaluate your stance on things in general.
If the powers that be can cover up an operation that started with US Warships ILLEGALLY (according to INTERNATIONAL LAW!) FIRING UPON VIETNAMESE TROOPS, including LYING DIRECTLY TO THE PUBLIC VIA PRESS CONFERENCE, and managing to shut up ALL THE TROOPS INVOLVED IN THE ACTUAL INCIDENT, then what leads you to believe that they could not cover up the murder of one measly executive !?!If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:i think E Howard Hunt exposed what happened, a few years back. He stated that LBJ ordered the murder of JFK. He listed several assassins-David Atlee Phillips, Cord Meyer (whose wife was having an affair with JFK), David Morales (CIA), Bill harvey, and a French shooter at the Grassy Knoll.
I think those men are responsible, and are killers. LBJ included.
Also,35 said they heard shots from the knoll. Why shouldnt they be taken seriously?
How about the 3 tramps? Was Woody harrelson's father one of them?
LBJ for sure ... I agree with your comments- I have read a lot about the LBJ connection -- Seems legit to me!0 -
tonifig8 wrote:
LBJ for sure ... I agree with your comments- I have read a lot about the LBJ connection -- Seems legit to me!
i've never really looked into the assassination other than a video i think drifting by the storm posted a long time ago about CIA involvement so i've never read anything about LBJ being behind it but why didn't he seek a 2nd term? seems odd to have the president killed so you could take over then say you don't want the jobdon't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
Pepe Silvia wrote:
i've never really looked into the assassination other than a video i think drifting by the storm posted a long time ago about CIA involvement so i've never read anything about LBJ being behind it but why didn't he seek a 2nd term? seems odd to have the president killed so you could take over then say you don't want the job
Well it was pretty well documented that his years in the oval office took a humongous toll on LBJ. He died a few years after his term ended, in the mid 19's I think. A large part of his stress level, was the amazing toll Vietnam took on him. Just on an abstract level, you had the entire world literally up in flames, riots, protests, firebombings etc... You had Vietnam, which of course was HUGELY unpopular on both sides of the aisle. You had scores of protestors outside the white house, loudly chanting, "hey hey lbj, how many kids did you kill today"? and LBJ did indeed hear those chants. You had young people staging an outright revolt, completely abandoning their social roles. Nowadays we dont look at it as that wierd, but to people like LBJ and others of his generation, to have college kids, walking out of classes, or protesting the war, or merely dropping out of school to do drugs or whatever, that was a HUGE deal.
LBJ was often near the end of his term, photographed, with his head in his hands, clearly stressed out. He was literally driven to his death via all the pressure put on him about ending the war.
So as 1968 approached, and the world started to talk about who was gonna be president in 1968, its quite clear, by 1968, that the war, is not only unpopular with college radicals, but it was a mainstream position. 1968 saw the world literally on the brink of revolution. The Panthers, increasing riots over race, antiwar activism became violent and more radical, and you had cops videotaped on the evening news beating in the heads of college kids at the 68 DNC.
It also was clear that given the choice, at that time, between Nixon, Humphreys, LBJ or RFK, you werent going to be elected if you were anti Vietnam war. RFK was the only one who was that. LBJ stood no chance. He (LBJ)was under increasing pressure from black activists for not being radical enough in terms of civil rights and black equality.
It also point out the stark differences between then and now. We are in an eerily similar time now. Unpopular wars, wars unpopular with not just radicals but mainstream americans, we have a democrat president who is unwilling to pull out. The main difference of course beyond the lack of a draft, is the fact Bush, and Obama seem to not be affected by the protests at all.
Those are the reasons.0 -
As far as LBJ's involvement, I know a lot of people have come to that conclusion based on the infamous "wink" photo taken after he was sworn in. http://www.the7thfire.com/images/thewink.jpg
In regards to the famous shot of Oswald holding his rifle and the Marxist papers there has always been the theory that the body belonged to a CIA agent and that the head was glued on above the chin. http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/images/GoD27.gif
These two photos are enlargements of the two photos found in the garage. The line where Oswald's real head was glued onto the two photos of another man's body at the chin line can be seen. A whole series of mistakes was made by the team who did this work. One of the most obvious is the way the shadow under Oswald's nose in the two photos tilts with his head. This shows that the same head photo was glued on at two different angles. These fake photos taken with a camera that didn't belong to Oswald were accepted as totally valid by the Warren Commission and the FBI. Marina Oswald was forced by the assassination team to testify that she took these two photos.0 -
WeaponX655321 wrote:As far as LBJ's involvement, I know a lot of people have come to that conclusion based on the infamous "wink" photo taken after he was sworn in. http://www.the7thfire.com/images/thewink.jpg
In regards to the famous shot of Oswald holding his rifle and the Marxist papers there has always been the theory that the body belonged to a CIA agent and that the head was glued on above the chin. http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/images/GoD27.gif
These two photos are enlargements of the two photos found in the garage. The line where Oswald's real head was glued onto the two photos of another man's body at the chin line can be seen. A whole series of mistakes was made by the team who did this work. One of the most obvious is the way the shadow under Oswald's nose in the two photos tilts with his head. This shows that the same head photo was glued on at two different angles. These fake photos taken with a camera that didn't belong to Oswald were accepted as totally valid by the Warren Commission and the FBI. Marina Oswald was forced by the assassination team to testify that she took these two photos.
You want ONE BETTER THAN THAT !?!
from the page, Backyard photos
(and i believe, also revealed in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" TV series)
Discovered in the Dallas Police Department records, in the mid 1980s,
HERE IS:
larger, clearer image
Uh. So What WOULD you say this is evidence of, if not "REVISION"?
8 Hour, 5 Part Documentary: Evidence of RevisionIf I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?0 -
Sorry DBTS, that photo isn't real. The negative was "lost" by the DPD.
I haven't read every post but it seems a few names are missing. Kissinger, Bush (one of the "bums") and most of all, Richard M. Nixon.
Try to find some info. on Billy Lovelady.
Good fuckin luck.
Only thing you'll find is "Lovelady was a book depository employee who resembled Lee Harvey Oswald"
What a coincidence. Two individuals, working in the same place, who looked like each other.
Happens to me all the time.
Bang, Bang.
Carry on
:roll:This is your drug. This is your drug on brains.0 -
Here is my take, and I was alive and in school on the day of the assasination. I do believe Oswald killed him, but I do not believe he was alone in the whole thing. I think the gov. had a part in it. I also believe Jack Ruby was paid to kill Oswald, but I am unsure if he knew who was at the top of wanting Oswald killed.
Kennedy made many enemies and some thought he was a danger to the country. It was easiest to take him out.
I do know the country felt he was the greatest ever, so an assassination was the only way. Bobby was taken out for similar reasons. Ted is a lucky bastard.
Why I feel all of this??? Cuz, where there is smoke, there is fire. and many of these "conspiracy" issues started immediately. They weren't called conspiracy theories back then.
Heck, back then, people were so unwilling to accept he was dead, that they felt he was being kept alive at an undisclosed location, they also felt his brain was removed and saved somnewhere...none of which is true. Either way, he is gone by now, if he did survive, he would be 92 now. But, he did not survive.
I think the CIA had a lot to do with it. That is their job, if a president needs to be taken out, they do it. Too bad, they didn't catch on to the fact we had a psychopath recently and do their duty then!!
You know what else? They use to say the Vietnam war ended in 1974, but I know it was still going in 1975, and they didn't admit that until more recently. I always knew it, cuz my ex and I were in the military at that time. Many vets are not receiving Vietnam war status 'cuz of those lies back then. We were still sending troops over in 1975!! The history books vary in what year it actual ended. I know it was 1995 or later!!Save room for dessert!0 -
Gawd...
If my head didn't hurt so fuckin bad right now, I'd really rip into this thread. 'Nam had little, if anything to do with it. On the other hand, it had everything to do with it. War's big business, and it brings in big money. John Boy was going to put an end to the Federal Reserve and put the American currency back in the hands of The Corporation, i.e. The Federal Government. The "Money Lenders" (jew talkin to me?) weren't about to let that happen. They didn't then, and they ain't gonna now . (Listen up, Ron Paul)
Lincoln was about to do the same thing.
I'm sure he and Jack are kickin back in their eternal hot tub, surrounded by Marylin Monroe look-a-likes (ighting better Cubans than you or I will ever smoke), swirling snifters of Cognac, shaking their heads, and saying to each other (between giggles) "What the fuck were we thinking?"
(To which Marylin will reply, obviously, "How could you two think about anything with your brains in your lap?")
Rinse and repeat.
Forever.This is your drug. This is your drug on brains.0
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