Food Inc. Full of...???

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  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    LiteTheMatch wrote:
    This thread is full of garbage and emotional complainers.... Eat at McDonald's, it's the healthiest meal you can get! Don't listen to any of the propaganda!

    ummm... that might be going a bit far...
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    LiteTheMatch wrote:
    This thread is full of garbage and emotional complainers.... Eat at McDonald's, it's the healthiest meal you can get! Don't listen to any of the propaganda!

    You're absolutely right if you want to live (NOT very well either) till you're 30!

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • embrace
    embrace Posts: 849
    vedderman71 wrote:
    Embrace i appreciate your commentary regarding my local family farm brethren.
    I've been wanting to tackle this part of your concerns with 1. factory farming
    2. in your words: "The "manipulation" of animals to look alike/match in size for uniformity in distribution is NOT natural and cant be good for our bodies"
    I could write a Very long explaination for either point.

    I guess I will start to tackle the second question by asking you a counter point question: Why do you feel a uniform product is less healthy? In the case of open pollinated corn, (as opposed to hybrid corn), yes I saw some data where the open pollinated corn was more nutrient dense. There could be a very simple reason in that the open pol. corn is planted much thinner population per acre than the population we plant hybrid corn (20k vs 35k/acre). The open pol corn has more fertility available per plant.

    Since you mentioned hamburger, I will switch gears to animal science. (Ironically, I just finished lunch @ McD's, using their Wi-Fi to check this thread) We actually had this similar discussion in one of my An Sci classes, so work w/ me on this concept. Let's say we were able to take a trip to a jungle to study Elephants or Lions. Though they might very in size, if we were to study their skeletal structure, the entire herd of elephants would look Very Similar in their angle to their shoulder and their slope to their hip or rump. Why you might ask? Because it's natural selection through the "survival of the fittest." Through generations of existance, the unsound elephants will Not live to be a ripe old age, and thus will have fewer progeny. The unsound male, let's say his rear feet and legs are not sound, he will not breed as many females. Over time, the majority of the herd of elephants will not only be sound, but if you were able to trace their linage, many would at Least 1st or 2nd cousins. Why? Somewhere along the way 1 or 2 males will be dominant and therefore will sire many females, whom might end up mating with their half brothers. Sorry folks, the animal kindom doesn't give a crap about incest! And if there is a flaw in this herd of "inbreds" then weaker ones will eventually be replaced by a stronger line of elephants.

    I can tell you as a purebred Angus breeder that we implement selection in every mating. Not only in physical structure for soundness, but also their effeciency of converting forage or grain into gain. We weigh our cattle at birth, weaning (9 months) and a yearWhy? If I am selling bulls to larger commercial cow herds, then I want that bull able to breed 30-50 cows in a 2 month breeding season over a very large terrain; thus structural soundness. Also that commercial producer wants live calves (birth wt.), he wants heavy calves at weaning, and if he retains ownership on the feedlot then he wants efficient gaining calf (actually using LESS grain) to make it to a market weight (usually 1250 lbs at 15-18 mo).

    My point is: just b/c this cattle rancher's calves look very similar, how does that make their meat and protein any less nutritious?
    I can also tell you that Bt & RR corn has a Very similar protein and starch profile as their non-GMO counterpart.
    I'll be back later to chat up factory farms...

    McDonalds - really ?! :problem: Its at the crux of the issue- we supply the people of the earth with crap and filler and it blows them up- just as we do our animals...Bigger isn't always better- In the case of Americans, diabetes is running rampant, the use of too much corn in our diets (esp in form of high fructose) is causing massive issues in the health and longevity of the human life.
    I get natural selection and evolution of species but we can't take the "natural" out of it. If we inject with antibiotics, steroids or spray it's not natural and it is going to have effects.
    got a car...got some gas...oh let's get out of here-get out of here fast...
    I hope you get this message but your not home...I will be there in just a minute or so...
    I want to go but I want to go with you.

    Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. -MT

    I've had enough, said enough, felt enough. I'm fine, still in it.
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    haffajappa wrote:
    LiteTheMatch wrote:
    This thread is full of garbage and emotional complainers.... Eat at McDonald's, it's the healthiest meal you can get! Don't listen to any of the propaganda!

    ummm... that might be going a bit far...



    i'm going to guess sarcasm, based on the rest of his/her post.
    and i do have to agree that the less chemicals we take in, the better we are. that has nothing to do with more/less nutrients in regards to organic/non-organic....just less toxic substances = good.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • vedderman71
    vedderman71 Posts: 62
    edited November 2009
    Yep d2d i took LiteThe Match (Indifference is 1 of my all time faves-nice handle) as being complete sarcasm.

    embrace, ya i was nursin a small hang-over, so i had a weak moment and got some grease...

    embrace wrote:
    "...we supply the people of the earth with crap and filler and it blows them up- just as we do our animals...Bigger isn't always better- In the case of Americans, diabetes is running rampant, the use of too much corn in our diets (esp in form of high fructose) is causing massive issues in the health and longevity of the human life. I get natural selection and evolution of species but we can't take the "natural" out of it. If we inject with antibiotics, steroids or spray it's not natural and it is going to have effects."

    As was mentioned earlier on this thread, most antibiotics fed in commercial swine and cattle operations feed low levels of preventative antibiotics. those drugs will NOT end up in beef and pork as residues as long as growers take the livestock off those meds within 2 weeks of slaughter. like any meds, there are "label" instructions for how these meds are administered. if an animal becomes ill, they are given therapuetic levels to get them healthy again. again, there are "withdrawal" regulations on these meds. IF in a rare occasion a producer would not follow the withdrawal laws, the producer faces some pretty serious fines.

    my mom is a former Type II diabetic, so again, you are hitting home with me. i still say people make choices in their eating habits (ok, so i had a bad day), it's Not All on the US farmer. i realize you all get that, but all the country's health ills don't fall on the lap of US Agriculture.
    ok gotta jet, a friend invited me over for a steak... ;)
    Post edited by vedderman71 on
    I’ll say your prayers I’ll take your side
    I promise a way to make light...
    What's saved could be one last lifetime
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    decides2dream wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    LiteTheMatch wrote:
    This thread is full of garbage and emotional complainers.... Eat at McDonald's, it's the healthiest meal you can get! Don't listen to any of the propaganda!

    ummm... that might be going a bit far...



    i'm going to guess sarcasm, based on the rest of his/her post.
    and i do have to agree that the less chemicals we take in, the better we are. that has nothing to do with more/less nutrients in regards to organic/non-organic....just less toxic substances = good.
    ah
    i read it wrong. i thought sarcasm at first and then read the second half as organic is not healthy
    woooops
    sorry

    carry on... :oops:
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    "The filmmakers have courageously pulled the mask off of giant corporations who treat the human consumer in ways very similar to the animals they send off to slaughter.

    It’s terrifying to us to think that the health of our population and future of our country’s farmers seem to get no consideration in the quest for ever increasing profits; and that the very fabric of nature, meaning the seeds for growing our crops, are being mutated then copy-written and privately owned from here to eternity?!"

    this is from pearljam.com...
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    while i think most of the thread has been a valued discussion and the OP has good points and is obviously very passionate about what he does and how he feels about the industry, i'm not really sure i understand where all the hate towards this documentary is coming from and why factory farms keep getting defended.

    first off, the band's message clearly states the movie is about what large corporations do to us and american farmers, and then the premise of this thread is based on seeing a 2 minute trailer... i think that, being on a farm and being very passionate about it gives us a good perspective from people who work with food day in and day out. however, it might also create a bias where its hard to see outside your world. though i have to see this movie still i don't think its a generalized attack against all farming. I'd like to think that the readings, documentaries, lectures, articles etc. that i have gotten info from about this topic aren't ALL wrong.

    obviously i'm not saying the OP is wrong in expressing his opinion, i just think that it doesnt hurt to think outside of what you are doing on your farm and open up to the possibility (probability) that others aren't farming sustainably or morally... it just seems to me that you have taken great offense from this movie when the filmmakers aren't even pointing the finger at you... in fact, from what people have said so far, it sounds like they are defending farmers.... :roll:
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    haffajappa wrote:
    while i think most of the thread has been a valued discussion and the OP has good points and is obviously very passionate about what he does and how he feels about the industry, i'm not really sure i understand where all the hate towards this documentary is coming from and why factory farms keep getting defended.

    first off, the band's message clearly states the movie is about what large corporations do to us and american farmers, and then the premise of this thread is based on seeing a 2 minute trailer... i think that, being on a farm and being very passionate about it gives us a good perspective from people who work with food day in and day out. however, it might also create a bias where its hard to see outside your world. though i have to see this movie still i don't think its a generalized attack against all farming. I'd like to think that the readings, documentaries, lectures, articles etc. that i have gotten info from about this topic aren't ALL wrong.

    obviously i'm not saying the OP is wrong in expressing his opinion, i just think that it doesnt hurt to think outside of what you are doing on your farm and open up to the possibility (probability) that others aren't farming sustainably or morally... it just seems to me that you have taken great offense from this movie when the filmmakers aren't even pointing the finger at you... in fact, from what people have said so far, it sounds like they are defending farmers.... :roll:

    I don't think the OP has actually seen the movie................ :?:
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    brandon10 wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    while i think most of the thread has been a valued discussion and the OP has good points and is obviously very passionate about what he does and how he feels about the industry, i'm not really sure i understand where all the hate towards this documentary is coming from and why factory farms keep getting defended.

    first off, the band's message clearly states the movie is about what large corporations do to us and american farmers, and then the premise of this thread is based on seeing a 2 minute trailer... i think that, being on a farm and being very passionate about it gives us a good perspective from people who work with food day in and day out. however, it might also create a bias where its hard to see outside your world. though i have to see this movie still i don't think its a generalized attack against all farming. I'd like to think that the readings, documentaries, lectures, articles etc. that i have gotten info from about this topic aren't ALL wrong.

    obviously i'm not saying the OP is wrong in expressing his opinion, i just think that it doesnt hurt to think outside of what you are doing on your farm and open up to the possibility (probability) that others aren't farming sustainably or morally... it just seems to me that you have taken great offense from this movie when the filmmakers aren't even pointing the finger at you... in fact, from what people have said so far, it sounds like they are defending farmers.... :roll:

    I don't think the OP has actually seen the movie................ :?:
    no, he hasn't... which was part of my point...
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    haffajappa wrote:
    brandon10 wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    while i think most of the thread has been a valued discussion and the OP has good points and is obviously very passionate about what he does and how he feels about the industry, i'm not really sure i understand where all the hate towards this documentary is coming from and why factory farms keep getting defended.

    first off, the band's message clearly states the movie is about what large corporations do to us and american farmers, and then the premise of this thread is based on seeing a 2 minute trailer... i think that, being on a farm and being very passionate about it gives us a good perspective from people who work with food day in and day out. however, it might also create a bias where its hard to see outside your world. though i have to see this movie still i don't think its a generalized attack against all farming. I'd like to think that the readings, documentaries, lectures, articles etc. that i have gotten info from about this topic aren't ALL wrong.

    obviously i'm not saying the OP is wrong in expressing his opinion, i just think that it doesnt hurt to think outside of what you are doing on your farm and open up to the possibility (probability) that others aren't farming sustainably or morally... it just seems to me that you have taken great offense from this movie when the filmmakers aren't even pointing the finger at you... in fact, from what people have said so far, it sounds like they are defending farmers.... :roll:

    I don't think the OP has actually seen the movie................ :?:
    no, he hasn't... which was part of my point...
    Well I watched last night. It was a big eye opener. And the movie really made me feel sorry for the farmers that are being fucked over!!!

    I really enjoyed the part with the farmer(Joel) from Ployface farms in Virginia. I 'm almost willing to drive 18 hours to buy his chicken.

    I will definately be more concious about my eating habits.

    Oh and FUCK MONSANTO!!!
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    brandon10 wrote:
    Well I watched last night. It was a big eye opener. And the movie really made me feel sorry for the farmers that are being fucked over!!!

    I really enjoyed the part with the farmer(Joel) from Ployface farms in Virginia. I 'm almost willing to drive 18 hours to buy his chicken.

    I will definately be more concious about my eating habits.

    Oh and FUCK MONSANTO!!!
    ahhh... i really wanna see this docu.
    i never have time :(

    soon hopefully!
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • LiteTheMatch
    LiteTheMatch Posts: 1,208
    yes my first paragraph about McDonald's was sarcasm... sorry for being a bit unclear! But you all seemed to have understood :)
    A child's rhyme stuck in my head...
    It said "Life is nothing but a dream."
    I've spent so many years in question
    To find I'd known this all along.
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    LiteTheMatch wrote:
    yes my first paragraph about McDonald's was sarcasm... sorry for being a bit unclear! But you all seemed to have understood :)
    i got around to it eventually :lol:
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • vedderman71
    vedderman71 Posts: 62
    Fyi, i got the sarcasm the first post.
    I appreciate every one's kind words and consideration of my passion on this topic.
    And I Promise, I Will watch the entire film.
    By watching the trailer, I could tell the film focused on rare anomalies of the Ag industry, and a film like this promotes the rare bad exception as the rule, and ignores the actual reality of production agriculture.
    I really do appreciate every one's kind words and consideration on this thread, I just hope Every One who views this film has a similar perspective.
    thanks
    I’ll say your prayers I’ll take your side
    I promise a way to make light...
    What's saved could be one last lifetime
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    vedderman71 wrote:
    Fyi, i got the sarcasm the first post.
    I appreciate every one's kind words and consideration of my passion on this topic.
    And I Promise, I Will watch the entire film.
    By watching the trailer, I could tell the film focused on rare anomalies of the Ag industry, and a film like this promotes the rare bad exception as the rule, and ignores the actual reality of production agriculture.
    I really do appreciate every one's kind words and consideration on this thread, I just hope Every One who views this film has a similar perspective.
    thanks


    Enjoy the film. Let me know what you think? I had a big fat steak at a steakhouse last night. I know for sure they use grain fed cattle(nice place). But I couldn't get this film out of my mind. I'm for sure changing my shopping practices. let me know what you think?( as an actual farmer)
  • vedderman71
    vedderman71 Posts: 62
    edited November 2009
    As I told another poster, I'll see the film when my local library gets it, I'm not actually gonna Buy the damn thing-ha.

    I do encourage All of you to support your local "farmers markets." I have a few friends who sell produce and freezer beef at local markets and it's a great small business for them. A CASH business is a Great thing. In the grand scheme of things I also figure the locally food we all consume actually allows us to disperse more food to other parts of the country that actually need our mas produced cheap food. (I say that partially tongue in cheek, but not that bad of a business model)

    And if humans were Not meant to consume steak, then why does it taste so good?

    I believe there is a place for All of God's creatures...right next to my mashed potatoes!

    Just a couple of my faves...more to follow...
    Post edited by vedderman71 on
    I’ll say your prayers I’ll take your side
    I promise a way to make light...
    What's saved could be one last lifetime
  • embrace
    embrace Posts: 849
    Can anyone shed some light (or lead me to further reading) on part of the film that discusses the large corporations buying out the small organics- ie- Kellogs and Danone owning Stonyfield and Kashi ...

    Is this "good" that the small wholesome producers are gaining so much ground that its forcing the big guys to take notice and get in the game OR is it that continuing the monopoly on the market and going to taint the goodness these companies stand for?
    got a car...got some gas...oh let's get out of here-get out of here fast...
    I hope you get this message but your not home...I will be there in just a minute or so...
    I want to go but I want to go with you.

    Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. -MT

    I've had enough, said enough, felt enough. I'm fine, still in it.
  • vedderman71
    vedderman71 Posts: 62
    It has been my experience that some of the larger corps. that buy into smaller entities for a few different reasons. 1. Diversify their holdings. 2. To "purchase" some proprietary info or process.

    As organic foods gain traction, larger corps. see the handwrtiting on the wall, they need to take a foot-hold in these portions of the market place and get in front of consumers.

    Also know that there has been some legislation passed in the last couple years that has clearly defined what food items can be labeled "organic," so just b/c a big bad co. like Kellog's is involved, they still have to "keep it real" on what they label "organic."
    I’ll say your prayers I’ll take your side
    I promise a way to make light...
    What's saved could be one last lifetime
  • shmap
    shmap Posts: 375
    I saw Food Inc about a week ago, and I think you have to reflect on it like you would any kind of "propaganda" filmmaking (which you must agree it is, to a certain extent). I enjoyed the film, and though it was a bit skewed in places, it did educate me and for that I'm thankful. And the bottom line message is something we can all appreciate: buy locally when you can, and know as much as possible about what's going into your food. Hard to argue with that, I think.

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