Food Inc. Full of...???
vedderman71
Posts: 62
As a 38 year old farmer who has "fed the world" my entire life, this deeply saddens me that Pearl Jam would lend it's name in support of a film full with untruths and propoganda. Animal agrilculturalists want our livestock and poultry to thrive and be healthy. The animal science industry takes better care of our animals than we as humans take care of our homeless population.
Write a song about that Ed...
Write a song about that Ed...
I’ll say your prayers I’ll take your side
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Please stop being a lazy ass gullible robot and really look into the industry, and maybe even participate in it before you spew the usual bullshit. These vids make it sound like every fucking hamburger out there is pumped up full of garbage. Having farmed and raised livestock (cattle, hogs, turkeys and chickens) most of my life on over 4,000 acres of land, I know a little bit about the industry. Why don't you spend some time on an actual farm and see how much "ground up bones, sawdust, cement and growth hormones" are pumped into these animals. I'm sure you'll be slightly let down that it's not anything like that at all.
While I think there are certainly a large percentage of farmers who do it right (like I'm sure you do), the industry has become such that the business itself has lead to people cutting cost, and taking shortcuts at the expense of the long term health of the consumer. I have very close friends of my family who are farmers, and growing up in IL, going to school in Iowa...I know dozens of good honest people who really do it right. I also know others who have their hands tied, and have realized that far too often the cost of raising cattle, and growing crops the right way has become just too damn expensive.
I really don't think the band is advocating that all farmers are evil and unless you only eat "certified organic", etc. you are perpetuating the problem.
I happen to be a giant supporter of local farmers and local products. It's really a concept that needs to be pushed more and more. Not only does it support local farmers, but it gives them the means to the capital they need to sustain and flourish in an otherwise difficult industry.
We need to get people out of the idea that the mega-mart is the be all end all of one's shopping needs and to educate people on a) nutrition b) the environment c) supporting the local folks who bust their ass off every day...and perhaps my favorite d) eating some damn good food...because local, un-fucked-with food is the best money can buy.
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceN ... ZJ20090729
i just hope people don't buy this movie as gospel (especially if it has a PJ stamp of approval), and try to educate themselves more about the issues.
Great point. It so much better to buy local than to buy organic. I love when people buy organic produce and it's from Chile or some other distant land -- I'm sure that was organic jet fuel that brought over to your Safeway
please stop being a dickhead
while i'm sure many small farms don't use these practices but i really doubt the huge corporate farms take such care, hell, Monsanto fought a court battle for a decade or so over not wanting other dairies to us a label 'rBGH free' and haven't Canada and the European Union banned use of rBGH?? i guess they are being lazy ass gullible people, too :roll:
and a lot of times hamburgers do have this stuff because a lot of places will use a mixture of meat from different sources and mix them all together, recently a girl got e coli from a frozen hamburger because the company used meat from 4 or so different places and since there is no law or regulation saying they have to test trimmings for things like e. coli it tainted her meat and she got sick and wound up in a coma for a little over 2 months because the company that made the hamburgers wanted to save money
so, while i'm sure a lot of smaller and family type farms do not use these practices the major agroindustrial sector DOES, is anyone saying 100% of farmers use these practices?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
i haven't seen this documentary, what in it is untrue?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
just a few:
the "slow food" model in the movie would be able to feed the world. Untrue: An estimation from the Journal of Animal Science was an increase of 3-5X of today's food prices, making food too expensive for another BILLION people in the world.
Broiler chickens are raised in cages. Untrue: they are raised in open air shelters
Broiler chickens are genetically modified i.e. franken chickens. Untrue: Broiler chickens have been selectively breeded over the centuries, something that has been done since before the time of Christ.
The slow food model is more healthy. Untrue: more "therapeutic" antibiotics would be required which is a much higher dosage than the upkeep done on all animals today. For example, in Denmark there is a ban on a lot of antibiotics, but therapeutic dosages have gone up 96% since they were banned in 2002.
The model would be better for the environment. Untrue: It would require 40 MM additional farmers up from 1MM today. Deforestation would be a problem, meanwhile food production will need to DOUBLE by 2050.
Most farms are corporate farms. Untrue: 98% of farms in the US are owned by individuals.
Corn isn't a natural food for cattle. Untrue: Cattle have been eating corn for hundreds of years and it is digested almost completely when it is broken/cracked.
E Coli only exists because cattle eat corn. Untrue: E Coli exists in the digestive tract of all animals, whether grazing on pasture or fed grain.
Organic crops are better for you and the environment. Untrue: Farmers still have to spray these with "natural" pesticides that include things like copper and sulfur, but since they are less effective they have to use higher amounts which is worse for the environment and for you. People have DIED from this, no one has ever died because of "normal" pesticides used (like RoundUp).
Antibiotics aren't necessary for production of meat. Untrue: (if you can't afford $20 / lb for ground beef and $100 for a steak) Maintenance doses allow farmers to not use "therapeutic" doses when the animal gets sick. Therapeutic doses are dangerous to the person eating the animal. Maintenance doses are not.
http://reason.com/archives/2006/10/25/h ... crust-eats
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/scien ... .html?_r=2
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7974995.stm
- Journal of Animal Science, March 13 2009
-28 years of experience in food production (corn, soybeans, beef, pork)
this is just from 20 minutes of research and a fundamental understanding of the industry.
like i said, i haven't seen it so i can't really comment on what you said since i don't know the context they made the claims....like the antibiotics...was it saying ALL antibiotics were unnecessary or the overuse of it because of problems related to use of rBGH and rBGT?
also, the ratios of family farms can be kind of confusing the way certain farms are defined. the dept of agriculture says only 90% are 'family' farms but a family farm can still be contracted to a corporation solely (also this report is like 12 years old so family farms could have grown since then)
also, it depends on what crop/product we are talking about in regards to if 'family' farms produce more. here is a study from UC Davis (again, old, from 2000)
http://www.agecon.ucdavis.edu/extension ... v6n4_2.pdf
you can see 'very large/corporate farms' produce far more than the smaller ones, more than the other categories combined.
it also said, in 2000, 55% of family farms had to rely on off farm work to make it by
also, corn isn't that good a feed for farm animals because it is loaded with omega-6's which promote blood clotting and inflamation and the nutrients in grass, like omega-3's, are far better for the animal and us
when i looked up broiler chickens there were a lot of pics of them in pens, though, it did say the majority of these were raised on family farms so i guess it depends on how they run their farm. it also noted
Broiler chickens may often get joint disorders because their legs cannot bear the heavy bodies. A Swedish study by SLU Skara (Swedish farming university) revealed that only 1/3 of studied broiler chickens that were about to be slaughtered were healthy.[4] Additionally, it is very inactive and as a result is a poor forager, prone to predation, and is generally not suited to small free range homestead flocks.
If the litter in the pen is not properly managed to prevent birds from standing and resting in their feces hock burns and foot ulcerations and blisters can occur. Pastured birds which are rotated frequently typically do not have these issues.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I'm pretty sure Ontario is responsible for something like 90% of Canada's produce (Alberta is primarily responsible for our beef) and I'd like to really look into the information that is currently available on the issues of "improper animal treatments". Unfortunately, I think most of the stuff I'll be able to find will only focus on the small percentage of negatives and not a whole lot of the positives.
Those are growth hormones, not antibiotics. Those should be tabled, given the amount of legitimate science that says they are harmful. Our family farm didn't use them and I don't think many beef farms do... milk on the other hand...
I don't know... it is ambigious. My family farm might be considered a "corporate farm",technically it is, because it is set up as a corporation for tax reasons. But it is a small operation with 1 employee... it just depends on your definition of a "big evil corporate farm." how many acres? lbs produced? bushels? I don't know...
very true, and that is because of the "middle-men" Cargill, ADM, distributors, and grocery stores who all are getting paid to do relatively little. For example, when you buy a $2 loaf of bread, the farmer gets $0.02 to $0.04!!! In addition, input prices are sky high (fuel, fertilizer, land, property taxes) so there is pressure on both sides.
I don't know I'd want to do more research on this...
Yes, broiler chickens do have problems with their legs. They grow so fast that maybe 1% look like they have a broken leg - in my experience. As far as 1/3 not being healthy, that is a gross exaggeration and oversimplification. What is meant by "not healthy?" Hell, even the Jewish Kosher markets that are sold to typically only turn back a few chickens here and there, and they will turn back a chicken for being the wrong color!!! I'm all for animal rights and do not want any animal to be treated improperly. It is a shame and believe me, there are reputable animal rights groups doing something about it. Good for them.
yes, but use of those growth hormones cause infections in the udders of the cows so they have to be given more antibiotics than a cow without the hormone (or just goes untreated)
that is crazy! i guess that's why so many have to have jobs off their farms. i try to buy local stuff as often as i can, luckily there's a few farmer's markets and stands in the area. how much wheat goes into a single load? how do they make it getting so little in return? i've worried about the corporate farm taking over and pushing out the smaller family farms because they can't compete with the prices and cutting corners but i'm glad there are actually so many of them around.
can smaller farms get tax breaks or any kind of help or subsidy?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
In regards to subsidies, yes, farmers do receive subsidies, including corporate farms. It is based on production, not price, which I also disagree with fervently. It benefits corporate farms too much and doesn't benefit the small farmer enough. Contrary to popular belief though, most farmers are not rich. My brother is trying to get started and working as a teacher and farming, working over 100 hours a week during planting, harvest, etc. (this morning I called him and he got in at 4am and left at 6am to go to work). He still has barely enough to get by but is called "a rich farmer" and is demonized by people who think he is poisoining them with his food... :?
Without making this post huge by quoting you fine folks, I will say I really appreciate Shawshank, mca47 and He Still Stands for making some really great points. Many points that I wanted to originally make, but just wanted to see where the thread went.
If we educate just one "Pepe" at a time it will be well worth it.
My best friends run a "farm-fresh freezer beef" business just 20 minutes outside of Indy and their business is booming on word of mouth alone. Though Omega 6's might promote blood clotting, I have yet to ever see a beef animal die let alone have issues with blood clotting. I realize your concern might be with the human consumer having issues with clotting, but those w/ this issues probably have other factors; such as family history or other diet choices.
It still comes down to the simple fact that U.S. agriculture is the #1 supplier of the SAFEST supply food to the world...Period.
University of Illinois (ILL-ini -Fire Ron Zook NOW!)
Ag Education, '93
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
But I have seen The Future of Food. Any of you farm boys want to comment on it and it's accuracy?
what got me interested was that he didn't pump his cows full of antibiotics or corn or anything they use today. it was just a high nutrient food pellet, basically organic. he didn't need all the other shit, his cows were healthy, and it was a pretty big operation.
but his bottom line wasn't profit, he was given the job with some leeway, he ran it his way. and still made a profit.
to me it seems this is another example of greed fucking everything up; what's best for us, whats best for the cows, fuck all that. lets make some money., pump em full of corn and antibiotics and let teh people have ground beef from 10 different plants, and fuck it if they get ecoli or some cow gets cement in its food. profit is the bottom line, fuck the rest.
and that's capitalism for you.
ILLINI! I went there for one year before transferring to WIU to be with a love interest :evil: and yes I agree, FIRE RON ZOOK! At least basketball season starts soon and the future is bright in Chambana.
the other issue is the state of regulatory standards ... the US allows bovine growth hormone - that in it of itself raises concerns about whether the FDA operates on behalf of citizens or large corporations like monsanto ...
Since when is profitability a crime in the U.S.? A healthy thriving animal is a profitable animal.
But then again, I am "reasoning" with people with the handle "Commy" and a Canadian...what was I thinking?
Ha, j/k.
Vote with your buying choices. Buy local "farm fresh." Buy organic.
And I agree, we as an industry always need to do a better job of policing our own growers. The few bad apples can ruin it for the rest of us. Just know that the exception is NOT the norm.
I promise a way to make light...
What's saved could be one last lifetime
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org
to be fair, chickens and hogs are fed bone meal - ground up poultry parts (whatever is left after the slaughter). Not always but it isn't uncommon. Its really cheap and like 60% protein. I don't know of any nefarious ingredients in cattle feed though. And I don't know any reason why bone meal shouldn't be fed to chickens and hogs... there isn't any scientific evidence suggesting it shouldn't be fed to these animals as far as I know. It shouldn't be fed to cattle because of the risk of mad cow and other diseases that are carried in the spine/brain of animals. Feed mills can't even have it on their property if they feed cattle. If you do it is like a $10,000 fine per pound.
Just thought I'd point out there are some weird things in animal feed (cement isn't one of them as far as I know).
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 30,7386416
'Want a Fat Juicy Steak? Feed Cattle Cement'
from the book Mad Cow, USA:
'According to Consumers Research food editor Beatrice Trum Hunter, rendered
animal parts were only one of the unlikely new materials introduced into
the animal feed supply:
It has taken us from grass and hay feeding to such non-traditional
ingredients in animal feed as sewage sludge and treated manure. The search
for alternative substances in animal feed suited the new conditions that
arose from agricultural changes... A plethora of substances found their
way into animal feed. They included agricultural wastes... They included
retail food wastes...Slaughterhouses and tanneries provided blood,
entrails, hoofs, bristles, and feathers for use in animal feed. Some
alternative substances were ...industrial wastes such as sawdust, wood
chips, twigs, and even ground-up newspapers, and cardboard boxes. Others
were cement dust from kilns, sludge from municipal composting plants,
water from electric generating plants that used fluidized bed combustion
of coal, and waste water from nuclear power stations.....The Four
Ds..dead, dying, disabled, and diseased animals ... moisture damaged or
maggot-infested grains; foods contaminated by rodents, roaches, or bird
excreta.'
http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/ecology/cattle.htm
Cattle and Capitalism
Some feedlots have begun research trials adding cardboard, newspaper, and sawdust to the feeding programs to reduce costs. Other factory farms scrape up the manure from chicken houses and pigpens, adding it directly to cattle feed. Cement dust may become a particularly attractive feed supplement in the future, according to the United States Department of Agriculture, because it produces a 30 percent faster weight gain than cattle on only regular feed. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) officials say that it's not uncommon for some feedlot operators to mix industrial sewage and oils into the feed to reduce costs and fatten animals more quickly.
At Kansas State University, scientists have experimented with plastic feed, small pellets containing 80 to 90 percent ethylene and 10 to 20 percent propylene, as an artificial form of cheap roughage to feed cattle. Researchers point to the extra savings of using the new plastic feed at slaughter time when upward of '20 pounds of the stuff from each cow's rumen can be recovered, melt[ed] down and recycle[d] into new pellets.' The new pellets are much cheaper than hay and can provide roughage requirements at a significant savings."
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
the farmer on this thread is dead on and this "fakeumentary" is full of half truths and blatant flat out lies
i just hope people do their own research before believing everything PJ backs and actually takes into consideration the farmer's own research he put on here in a matter of 20 minutes
its funny a large percentage on here hate "scare tactics" when it came to the war but when it comes from a "cause" PJ backs its ok
from the last article
it also says some colleges do these studies as well, like Kent State experimenting feeding cattle plastic
i can understand this is your livelihood so you guys feel the need to say not all are like this and i don't think anyone thinks all farmers are like that, i certainly don't. is the documentary spotlighting factory farms or saying this is how everyone does it? i don't know, i still haven't seen it, but it is on my netflix que.
thanks for discussing this in a civil manner
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
this is my take on the matter, I haven't seen the docu yet but will probably see it soon.
understandably those of you who farm and do so sustainably will be frustrated with someone painting a negative image but like i've said in other threads just because you do it sustainably doesn't mean that there aren't others who don't do the same thing.
i'm also curious if this docu is about the american cattle industry in general or all industries?
kinda like history.
everything has a 'slant' to some degree, a perspective that one holds and influences. i don't expect 100% objectivity in any thing. documentaries, at best, are meant to open our minds, expand our knowledge. they cannot be all encompassing and i don't expect them to cover every. single. thing. however, painting with a broad brush to illustrate a greater picture, i AM ok with that.
btw - good to seeya here stace.
oh and haffajappa - i haven't watched yet, but i think it's a good guess that it is US-centric. i am sure it is reflective in a general sense to world food sources, but i definitely think it has a US slant.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
oh and after seeing it i can definitively say it is entirely focused on the USA food system. i would've seen this doc eventually, but thanks pj for getting it in my hands sooner.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow