Do pets have any sense of living and non living?

Pepe Silvia · October 2009

yes, i would think they know overall, a squeaky toy might throw them off.

i work at an animal rescue, i would say with confidence every single 1 of those animals knows i am a living thing, i doubt any think the same of their bed or the slip leads we use.

PJaddicted · October 2009

catefrances wrote:

PJaddicted wrote:

I have a Doberman and they are called the dog with a human brain. He is very smart, and for sure knows what's alive and what annoys the crap out of him like motocross bikes, he wants to eat them, but not because they are living and breathing. He was bred for personal protection and when he sees his human in danger, he gets visibly upset and wants to get them safe again. He will even try to pull my kids out of a kayak,off of a skate board, etc. because he can't be with them on the water or racing around. Dobermans were bred to *think* and they do, they can look at a situation and make decisions on what to do. I've had my dogs temperament tested, and he passed with flying colors and has his WAC title. I hike with him almost every day of the year and he is exposed to birds, mammals, reptiles, etc. He chases bears and and really doesn't like them, I think he knows they could be a danger. Not all dogs are smart.....some work more on instinct,for some training can over ride instinct, and some have everything bred out of them, so they can be a lap dog. I've had a lot of dogs in my life, and Petey is by far the smartest and most fun to share my life with.

hpw arrogant is this statement. tis as if we regard animals as having lesser intelligence rather than different intelligence. and that all intelligence be measured against ours. utter bollocks.

p.s. PJaddicted.. im not having a go at you.

I agree....but most people don't see it that way, I'm in the public eye because of the volunteer work I do, and don't want to come off as odd, I need to be taken seriously, so I keep my thoughts about that to myself. I'm very involved with animals, I'm an avid hiker and nature watcher, I am a licensed wildlife Rehabber doing rehab work through my local Humane Society, I also count hawks and eagles for HMANA, each Fall for ten weeks, I am also studying to be a Master Naturalist. I do believe as a whole we humans are most likely the dumbest creature on earth.... :shifty: We destroy everything.

HeavyHands · October 2009

My friends seven year old son has epilepsy. Last week she was alerted to him having a seizure by her cat loudly meowing and walking circles around the boy's head as he was on the ground.

Dogs and cats are remarkable companions.

Pepe Silvia · October 2009

HeavyHands wrote:

My friends seven year old son has epilepsy. Last week she was alerted to him having a seizure by her cat loudly meowing and walking circles around the boy's head as he was on the ground.

Dogs and cats are remarkable companions.

i remember seeing a story a year or so ago about a cat at a nursing home who seemed to know who was about to die and would lay in their beds with them for a few days and then they would die

decides2dream · October 2009

musicismylife78 wrote:

----

I disagree. While we as humans do think about death often, its almost always an individual thing. You arent going to go to a party with friends and spend the evening discussing your fears about dying and how you feel when you die you may not have accomplished everything you wanted. And by and large, tv shows, books, and movies really dont discuss it either.

In college, we happened to discuss, tangentially, death. We spent an entire class period one day, on that subject. And the professor pointed out, accurately, that this discussion was rare and unique, it just doesnt happen. I will never forget that class, and that class period specifically. I had never heard people talk so openly about so private and personal a subject, and havent since.

We are scared of death. We may think about it, but its all in our brains and our own internal monologues. Its never a discussion with others.

and, that is your experience...not mine. i've actually had many an indepth discussion of death, with friends, with people close to me...and numerous times in college. it is not rare or unique in my experience. at all. most especially amongst people who have experienced death close to them, or threat of death due to illness, etc. it is very much discussed, in all forms. books and film and music happen to deal with death often, so again, perhaps it's your experience they don't.....but that is not necessarily true for all.

i do agree, many are scared of death. i also think that's a major reason it gets discussed.
animals in my mind have the right idea....just live!

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

HeavyHands wrote:

My friends seven year old son has epilepsy. Last week she was alerted to him having a seizure by her cat loudly meowing and walking circles around the boy's head as he was on the ground.

Dogs and cats are remarkable companions.

i remember seeing a story a year or so ago about a cat at a nursing home who seemed to know who was about to die and would lay in their beds with them for a few days and then they would die

i thought i saw that in a film once!

Pepe Silvia · October 2009

decides2dream wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

HeavyHands wrote:

My friends seven year old son has epilepsy. Last week she was alerted to him having a seizure by her cat loudly meowing and walking circles around the boy's head as he was on the ground.

Dogs and cats are remarkable companions.

i remember seeing a story a year or so ago about a cat at a nursing home who seemed to know who was about to die and would lay in their beds with them for a few days and then they would die

i thought i saw that in a film once!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959718/
Cat plays furry grim reaper at nursing home
Oscar has predicted 25 deaths by curling up next to patient in final hours

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Oscar the cat seems to have an uncanny knack for predicting when nursing home patients are going to die, by curling up next to them during their final hours.

His accuracy, observed in 25 cases, has led the staff to call family members once he has chosen someone. It usually means they have less than four hours to live.

“He doesn’t make too many mistakes. He seems to understand when patients are about to die,” said Dr. David Dosa in an interview. He describes the phenomenon in a poignant essay in Thursday’s issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

“Many family members take some solace from it. They appreciate the companionship that the cat provides for their dying loved one,” said Dosa, a geriatrician and assistant professor of medicine at Brown University.

The 2-year-old feline was adopted as a kitten and grew up in a third-floor dementia unit at the Steere House Nursing and Rehabilitation Center. The facility treats people with Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease and other illnesses.

After about six months, the staff noticed Oscar would make his own rounds, just like the doctors and nurses. He’d sniff and observe patients, then sit beside people who would wind up dying in a few hours.

Aloof and businesslike feline
Dosa said Oscar seems to take his work seriously and is generally aloof. “This is not a cat that’s friendly to people,” he said.

Oscar is better at predicting death than the people who work there, said Dr. Joan Teno of Brown University, who treats patients at the nursing home and is an expert on care for the terminally ill.

She was convinced of Oscar’s talent when he made his 13th correct call. While observing one patient, Teno said she noticed the woman wasn’t eating, was breathing with difficulty and that her legs had a bluish tinge, signs that often mean death is near.

Oscar wouldn’t stay inside the room though, so Teno thought his streak was broken. Instead, it turned out the doctor’s prediction was roughly 10 hours too early. Sure enough, during the patient’s final two hours, nurses told Teno that Oscar joined the woman at her bedside.

Furry harbinger of death
Doctors say most of the people who get a visit from the sweet-faced, gray-and-white cat are so ill they probably don’t know he’s there, so patients aren’t aware he’s a harbinger of death. Most families are grateful for the advanced warning, although one wanted Oscar out of the room while a family member died. When Oscar is put outside, he paces and meows his displeasure.

No one’s certain if Oscar’s behavior is scientifically significant or points to a cause. Teno wonders if the cat notices telltale scents or reads something into the behavior of the nurses who raised him.

Nicholas Dodman, who directs an animal behavioral clinic at the Tufts University Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine and has read Dosa’s article, said the only way to know is to carefully document how Oscar divides his time between the living and dying.

Click for related content
Discuss: Do pets recognize human suffering?
Don't let your cat think outside the box
Chihuahua saves boy from rattler

If Oscar really is a furry grim reaper, it’s also possible his behavior could be driven by self-centered pleasures like a heated blanket placed on a dying person, Dodman said.

Nursing home staffers aren’t concerned with explaining Oscar, so long as he gives families a better chance at saying goodbye to the dying.

Oscar recently received a wall plaque publicly commending his “compassionate hospice care.”

decides2dream · October 2009

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959718/
Cat plays furry grim reaper at nursing home
Oscar has predicted 25 deaths by curling up next to patient in final hours

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Oscar the cat seems to have an uncanny knack for predicting when nursing home patients are going to die, by curling up next to them during their final hours.

His accuracy, observed in 25 cases, has led the staff to call family members once he has chosen someone. It usually means they have less than four hours to live.

“He doesn’t make too many mistakes. He seems to understand when patients are about to die,” said Dr. David Dosa in an interview. He describes the phenomenon in a poignant essay in Thursday’s issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

“Many family members take some solace from it. They appreciate the companionship that the cat provides for their dying loved one,” said Dosa, a geriatrician and assistant professor of medicine at Brown University.

The 2-year-old feline was adopted as a kitten and grew up in a third-floor dementia unit at the Steere House Nursing and Rehabilitation Center. The facility treats people with Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease and other illnesses.

After about six months, the staff noticed Oscar would make his own rounds, just like the doctors and nurses. He’d sniff and observe patients, then sit beside people who would wind up dying in a few hours.

Aloof and businesslike feline
Dosa said Oscar seems to take his work seriously and is generally aloof. “This is not a cat that’s friendly to people,” he said.

Oscar is better at predicting death than the people who work there, said Dr. Joan Teno of Brown University, who treats patients at the nursing home and is an expert on care for the terminally ill.

She was convinced of Oscar’s talent when he made his 13th correct call. While observing one patient, Teno said she noticed the woman wasn’t eating, was breathing with difficulty and that her legs had a bluish tinge, signs that often mean death is near.

Oscar wouldn’t stay inside the room though, so Teno thought his streak was broken. Instead, it turned out the doctor’s prediction was roughly 10 hours too early. Sure enough, during the patient’s final two hours, nurses told Teno that Oscar joined the woman at her bedside.

Furry harbinger of death
Doctors say most of the people who get a visit from the sweet-faced, gray-and-white cat are so ill they probably don’t know he’s there, so patients aren’t aware he’s a harbinger of death. Most families are grateful for the advanced warning, although one wanted Oscar out of the room while a family member died. When Oscar is put outside, he paces and meows his displeasure.

No one’s certain if Oscar’s behavior is scientifically significant or points to a cause. Teno wonders if the cat notices telltale scents or reads something into the behavior of the nurses who raised him.

Nicholas Dodman, who directs an animal behavioral clinic at the Tufts University Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine and has read Dosa’s article, said the only way to know is to carefully document how Oscar divides his time between the living and dying.

Click for related content
Discuss: Do pets recognize human suffering?
Don't let your cat think outside the box
Chihuahua saves boy from rattler

If Oscar really is a furry grim reaper, it’s also possible his behavior could be driven by self-centered pleasures like a heated blanket placed on a dying person, Dodman said.

Nursing home staffers aren’t concerned with explaining Oscar, so long as he gives families a better chance at saying goodbye to the dying.

Oscar recently received a wall plaque publicly commending his “compassionate hospice care.”

didn't doubt ya. just thought i saw it in a flick too. now reading it again, i do remember reading it first time round. i also realize, what i was thinking of - the film the savages. and, it was about people's toes curling when they are close to dying. so kinda relate, and yet....not.

Pepe Silvia · October 2009

decides2dream wrote:

didn't doubt ya. just thought i saw it in a flick too. now reading it again, i do remember reading it first time round. i also realize, what i was thinking of - the film the savages. and, it was about people's toes curling when they are close to dying. so kinda relate, and yet....not.

haha i liked that movie

decides2dream · October 2009

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

didn't doubt ya. just thought i saw it in a flick too. now reading it again, i do remember reading it first time round. i also realize, what i was thinking of - the film the savages. and, it was about people's toes curling when they are close to dying. so kinda relate, and yet....not.

haha i liked that movie

i LOVED that film!
laura linney + phillip seymour hoffmann = genius every time!
so horribly sad, yet also so funny!

keeping with the thread...her kitty and that dog especially....fantastic! and i am sure they both could tell the difference from the living and the non.

musicismylife78 · October 2009

very interesting responses. I was amazed when I read about the birds that hold funerals and mourn. very interesting.

Still, havent you all had dogs that barked at the vaccum cleaner? Our old dog would run and hide whenever we merely wheeled the vaccum cleaner out. He would bark even if it wasnt turned on. And my parents have talked about coming home, and seeing the dog sleeping on the floor, his paws wrapped around one of those stuffed animal chew toys.

musicismylife78 · October 2009

or as I talked about before. The tv. Or computer. It makes sense that a dog or cat would think these were real things. But, do you think they actually in fact do feel they are real living breathing things? The tv talks just like we do. The tv must look like a really bizaare shaped human, but do you think dogs think these things are living things?

decides2dream · October 2009

musicismylife78 wrote:

very interesting responses. I was amazed when I read about the birds that hold funerals and mourn. very interesting.

Still, havent you all had dogs that barked at the vaccum cleaner? Our old dog would run and hide whenever we merely wheeled the vaccum cleaner out. He would bark even if it wasnt turned on. And my parents have talked about coming home, and seeing the dog sleeping on the floor, his paws wrapped around one of those stuffed animal chew toys.

they bark b/c it's loud, moving...quite distressing.
have you not ever as a child slept with a stuffed toy?
did you think it was alive?

cmon now, really....it's almost insulting to think that a dog cannot distinguish between something alive, or not.

my little pug barks incesssantly at the tv, most especially at dogs and horses, and always at the moose in the opening sequence of northern exposure. he also barks at a lot of noise and/or movement on the screen, period. i do not believe he thinks any of it is 'alive'....he probably doesn't quite understand what it is, but i am sure he knows it is not living.

read up on some dog psych, it's endlessly fascinating. really.
i read a LOT of books of the sort for a problem dog we had in our past and also merely b/c i find it so interesting.

Pepe Silvia · October 2009

musicismylife78 wrote:

or as I talked about before. The tv. Or computer. It makes sense that a dog or cat would think these were real things. But, do you think they actually in fact do feel they are real living breathing things? The tv talks just like we do. The tv must look like a really bizaare shaped human, but do you think dogs think these things are living things?

when i was a kid there was a show on tv, i think it was riptide? anyway, in the opening there was a part of them running through water and we had a golden labrador retriever and every time that part came on he'd run to the tv and start licking at the water!

i suppose their response is 'what the fuck is that!?!?' the way they turn their heads sideways and look at speakers or something making noise. i gave a dog a squeaky toy once and the way he jumped when it made it's noise and the way he tapped it with his paw and would jump back real quick made me think he at least considered it was alive....then maybe after time with it not moving they think otherwise

with things like a vacuum cleaner i think it's more of a they have really good hearing and that loud noise annoys/scares them

pandora · October 2009

ok they just do all this stuff just for us- they love to amuse the humans!
They are very smart
we all know dog is God spelled backwards and all its just that simple

decides2dream · October 2009

pandora wrote:

we all know dog is God spelled backwards and all its just that simple

:thumbup:

well done.

redrock · October 2009

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Oscar the cat seems to have an uncanny knack for predicting when nursing home patients are going to die, by curling up next to them during their final hours.

When I am ill in bed all my five cats come and curl up on the bed with me. Thank god I don't have one named Oscar!

HeavyHands · October 2009

musicismylife78 wrote:

The tv must look like a really bizaare shaped human, but do you think dogs think these things are living things?

No. Inanimate objects give off no scent. My opinion is that scent is key for animals to identify other animals (humans included). There are chemical reactions human noses cannot pick up (such as pheromone release) which are second nature for dogs in determining things such as aggression or fear in other animals. That, in conjunction with visual information and audible information creates a more accurate picture for a dog to interpret.

A moving object without a scent is just visual noise.

Pepe Silvia · November 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nqo7Ncj ... =subtivity

Ms. Haiku · November 2009

musicismylife78 wrote:

Do pets have any sense of the living versus nonliving things of the world?

All I know is if my twin's dogs look alert all of a sudden then I wonder what's around.

This is very good. If I'm scared or wonder about a noise, and the dogs don't move and continue to lounge, then I know I'm ok. I would love to have a little house with dogs, so that they can notify me of what's what i.e., big bad storms.

_ · November 2009

Ms. Haiku wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

Do pets have any sense of the living versus nonliving things of the world?

All I know is if my twin's dogs look alert, and I don't know if it's because they can sense something either far away or from a different plane that I can't see.

This is very good. If I'm scared or wonder about a noise, and the dogs don't move and continue to lounge, then I know I'm ok. I would love to have a little house with dogs, so that they can notify me of what's what i.e., big bad storms.

I agree that pets have a good sense of danger that's useful for us. Someone once tried to break into my house when I was home and I called 911. I told them the guy was trying to get in the front window but I thought he had moved to the side window in the spare room, but I wasn't sure because the door to that room was closed. The 911 operator asked if I had any pets in the house and, if so, to describe to her what they were doing. They were freaked out and staring toward the spare bedroom. I thought it was intersting that the 911 operator would use my pets as an indication of whether I was still in danger. Ever since then, I always look for their reaction when I get freaked out by some little noise.

Do pets have any sense of living and non living?

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