Do pets have any sense of living and non living?

musicismylife78

for instance, my dog loves his chew toys, little stuff animals with squeaky things in them, shaped like mooses or mice or monkeys.

Or take things like cars, or vaccums, or lawnmowers.

What do you think our pets think of these things? Do you think they have any concept that these things like cars or vaccums or lawnmowers or those chew toys arent real?

Do pets think that literally everything around them is real like they are? Like that screen we stare at all day and night that makes noises (computer/tv) or that thing that plays songs (stereo), or that thing we get in at our house, and then when we leave this thing, we are in someplace else (car)

Do pets have any sense of the living versus nonliving things of the world?

pandora

mine know the UPS truck is very real and a fun game to get the driver toys are toys but when I brought home the big brown bear stuffed foot stool that took awhile to figure out
they are so smart though and understand everything we say I swear

arq

Other species make their own sense of the world, we normally try to humanize all animals but animals live their own world, similar but different to ours. Is all a quetion of perseption, like a blind man making sense of the colors or like a baby who comunicate with his parents without knowing how to talk.

pandora

arq wrote:

Other species make their own sense of the world, we normally try to humanize all animals but animals live their own world, similar but different to ours. Is all a quetion of perseption, like a blind man making sense of the colors or like a baby who comunicate with his parents without knowing how to talk.

Dogs really are tight with their pack being us and I love how they want to please.
I do humanize them but I've been wondering if they aren't evolving to understand more from humans over time and communicate better too.

ZiggyStar

No they don't.

CJMST3K

When you say "pets" are you referring also to other non-pet animals?

I've seen footage of an elephant who passed by either the bones of their family member, or the body (i think it was the bones), and they put their trunk on it gently and patted it a few times in fairly respectful way. Elephants have one of the tightest family structures in the animal kingdom so they may have a closer relationship to human relationships than dogs do.

pandora

CJMST3K wrote:

When you say "pets" are you referring also to other non-pet animals?

I've seen footage of an elephant who passed by either the bones of their family member, or the body (i think it was the bones), and they put their trunk on it gently and patted it a few times in fairly respectful way. Elephants have one of the tightest family structures in the animal kingdom so they may have a closer relationship to human relationships than dogs do.

I like your elephant story
I can't think of elephants without remembering my Mom- they were her favorite and I always thought that was a strange animal to have as a favorite
I like wolves

arq

pandora wrote:

Dogs really are tight with their pack being us and I love how they want to please.
I do humanize them but I've been wondering if they aren't evolving to understand more from humans over time and communicate better too.

Dogs and humans have been evolving side to side for thousands of years, i really don't know if their evolution will make them understand us more, but i'm sure their evolution have being partly guided unknowingly by us.

FinsburyParkCarrots

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildli ... erals.html

redrock

Fins... my cats say 'Of course we do! We are superior beings!'

I think pets do have a sense of living and non living - whether this sense is just survival or something more complex in mammals. The more 'intelligent' animals (ie not your goldfish) will use cognitive skills, but as well smell, etc.

Perceived differently, but still there.

My cats can tell the difference between a lovely, juicy real mouse to play with and the identical looking one but a toy... :twisted:

Obviously, I'm no expert but this is what I observed from a lifetime of having numerous pets around me.

FinsburyParkCarrots

My dad used to race greyhounds. When I was a kid, he got one called Blackie, who on account of his breeding showed promise. However, he was too smart to chase after a wire hare. Give him a real one, and he was on it like a shot, but whenever he saw a fake one, he'd look at you as if to say "Fakk off".

catefrances

animals rely on more senses than we do. their sense of smell is keener. their hearing is keener. their sense of their surroundings is more developed than ours. put a dog and a man in the wild and i can tell you that itll be the dog that finds the dead carcass first.

PJaddicted

I have a Doberman and they are called the dog with a human brain. He is very smart, and for sure knows what's alive and what annoys the crap out of him like motocross bikes, he wants to eat them, but not because they are living and breathing. He was bred for personal protection and when he sees his human in danger, he gets visibly upset and wants to get them safe again. He will even try to pull my kids out of a kayak,off of a skate board, etc. because he can't be with them on the water or racing around. Dobermans were bred to *think* and they do, they can look at a situation and make decisions on what to do. I've had my dogs temperament tested, and he passed with flying colors and has his WAC title. I hike with him almost every day of the year and he is exposed to birds, mammals, reptiles, etc. He chases bears and and really doesn't like them, I think he knows they could be a danger. Not all dogs are smart.....some work more on instinct,for some training can over ride instinct, and some have everything bred out of them, so they can be a lap dog. I've had a lot of dogs in my life, and Petey is by far the smartest and most fun to share my life with.

catefrances

PJaddicted wrote:

I have a Doberman and they are called the dog with a human brain. He is very smart, and for sure knows what's alive and what annoys the crap out of him like motocross bikes, he wants to eat them, but not because they are living and breathing. He was bred for personal protection and when he sees his human in danger, he gets visibly upset and wants to get them safe again. He will even try to pull my kids out of a kayak,off of a skate board, etc. because he can't be with them on the water or racing around. Dobermans were bred to *think* and they do, they can look at a situation and make decisions on what to do. I've had my dogs temperament tested, and he passed with flying colors and has his WAC title. I hike with him almost every day of the year and he is exposed to birds, mammals, reptiles, etc. He chases bears and and really doesn't like them, I think he knows they could be a danger. Not all dogs are smart.....some work more on instinct,for some training can over ride instinct, and some have everything bred out of them, so they can be a lap dog. I've had a lot of dogs in my life, and Petey is by far the smartest and most fun to share my life with.

hpw arrogant is this statement. tis as if we regard animals as having lesser intelligence rather than different intelligence. and that all intelligence be measured against ours. utter bollocks.


p.s. PJaddicted.. im not having a go at you.

pandora

Your Doberman sounds wonderful. I've only known one in my life- not mine- and not well trained which must be
very important cause Jazzy really needed a purpose as you've described.
We've only had mixed breeds now since our 2 purebreds had congenital problems and passed before the age of 5 but I would very much like to get a Doberman mix someday.
Smart and beautiful.

the wolf

CJMST3K wrote:

When you say "pets" are you referring also to other non-pet animals?

I've seen footage of an elephant who passed by either the bones of their family member, or the body (i think it was the bones), and they put their trunk on it gently and patted it a few times in fairly respectful way. Elephants have one of the tightest family structures in the animal kingdom so they may have a closer relationship to human relationships than dogs do.

I saw that show. The elephants were on a journey they make every year to find water and food during the dry season. they were close to where they were going and some were near death going that long without water.
and they still stopped to "mourn" the death of another elephant. and if i remember it was longer than a few minutes. they stayed a few hours, which was putting some of the "heard" in danger of dying, but they still stayed to show their respect.

amazing show. elephants are just amazing.

decides2dream

arq wrote:

Other species make their own sense of the world, we normally try to humanize all animals but animals live their own world, similar but different to ours. Is all a quetion of perseption, like a blind man making sense of the colors or like a baby who comunicate with his parents without knowing how to talk.

exactly.
we overly anthropomorphize(sp) animals.
that said, yes...i think animals are quite well aware of what is alive, and what is not. i think animals deal far better with life and death, probably b/c they don't dwell on it and simply LIVE while they can, and when it's time to go, they know...and they accept.

redrock

decides2dream wrote:

arq wrote:

Other species make their own sense of the world, we normally try to humanize all animals but animals live their own world, similar but different to ours. Is all a quetion of perseption, like a blind man making sense of the colors or like a baby who comunicate with his parents without knowing how to talk.

exactly.
we overly anthropomorphize(sp) animals.
that said, yes...i think animals are quite well aware of what is alive, and what is not. i think animals deal far better with life and death, probably b/c they don't dwell on it and simply LIVE while they can, and when it's time to go, they know...and they accept.

I don't think animals 'deal' with life or death or 'accept'. They will deal with pain and sorrow and will grieve (yep, they do..). The idea of 'accepting' death is a human notion - questions we may ask ourselves: How are we going to die? Is it going to be slow and painful or quick? What about my kids? Will I go to hell? What happens after death? Those are 'taught' ideas.

pandora

decides2dream wrote:

arq wrote:

Other species make their own sense of the world, we normally try to humanize all animals but animals live their own world, similar but different to ours. Is all a quetion of perseption, like a blind man making sense of the colors or like a baby who comunicate with his parents without knowing how to talk.

exactly.
we overly anthropomorphize(sp) animals.
that said, yes...i think animals are quite well aware of what is alive, and what is not. i think animals deal far better with life and death, probably b/c they don't dwell on it and simply LIVE while they can, and when it's time to go, they know...and they accept.

I agree but I think us humans do the same when faced with our death- we live- we appreciate life and when its time to go we know and accept too. I do think from losing our family dogs in untimely ways that its very hard on those in the pack left behind- just like us- they truly miss the one whos gone to the point of making themselves sick with outward signs of sadness and loss.

decides2dream

redrock wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

arq wrote:

Other species make their own sense of the world, we normally try to humanize all animals but animals live their own world, similar but different to ours. Is all a quetion of perseption, like a blind man making sense of the colors or like a baby who comunicate with his parents without knowing how to talk.

exactly.
we overly anthropomorphize(sp) animals.
that said, yes...i think animals are quite well aware of what is alive, and what is not. i think animals deal far better with life and death, probably b/c they don't dwell on it and simply LIVE while they can, and when it's time to go, they know...and they accept.

I don't think animals 'deal' with life or death or 'accept'. They will deal with pain and sorrow and will grieve (yep, they do..). The idea of 'accepting' death is a human notion - questions we may ask ourselves: How are we going to die? Is it going to be slow and painful or quick? What about my kids? Will I go to hell? What happens after death? Those are 'taught' ideas.

well obviously i think they do accept it. as far as dealing with it, i meant it more as how they live, not that they actually contemplate it. in that sense, i think they deal better....simply b/c that's how they are wired. perhaps poor language choice, but i thought it conveyed my general idea on it. differing perspectives.
yes, they are human concepts b/c that is how our own minds work, but i think they normally do sense their own deaths, and i believe they accept it, as in...it's my time and i go. everything else you mention is about humans, not animals...so not at all what i was suggesting. and i do agree, they most dfinitely grieve loss.

pandora wrote:

I agree but I think us humans do the same when faced with our death- we live- we appreciate life and when its time to go we know and accept too. I do think from losing our family dogs in untimely ways that its very hard on those in the pack left behind- just like us- they truly miss the one whos gone to the point of making themselves sick with outward signs of sadness and loss

see, i think a lot of people expel a lot of energy worrying about death, thinking about death, hell...even us discussing death. :P obviously, it IS important to prepare, human lives are far different from other animal's live, but none the less...i think we obsess a whole lot more. also, sure, many and hopefully most live and appreciate life...but i think a great many do not. some may reach that point of peace when they are close to death, but many do not appreciate just being here, alive in the present moment. again, i think a lot of it is simply how other animal's think, they live to live. and yes, of course amongst animals that are social-pack animals, the sense of loss is indeed real don't think i suggested otherwise. i think animals are just more *clear* in their lives, their purposes...

musicismylife78

see, i think a lot of people expel a lot of energy worrying about death, thinking about death, hell...even us discussing death. :P obviously, it IS important to prepare, human lives are far different from other animal's live, but none the less...i think we obsess a whole lot more. also, sure, many and hopefully most live and appreciate life...but i think a great many do not. some may reach that point of peace when they are close to death, but many do not appreciate just being here, alive in the present moment. again, i think a lot of it is simply how other animal's think, they live to live. and yes, of course amongst animals that are social-pack animals, the sense of loss is indeed real don't think i suggested otherwise. i think animals are just more *clear* in their lives, their purposes...[/quote]

----

I disagree. While we as humans do think about death often, its almost always an individual thing. You arent going to go to a party with friends and spend the evening discussing your fears about dying and how you feel when you die you may not have accomplished everything you wanted. And by and large, tv shows, books, and movies really dont discuss it either.

In college, we happened to discuss, tangentially, death. We spent an entire class period one day, on that subject. And the professor pointed out, accurately, that this discussion was rare and unique, it just doesnt happen. I will never forget that class, and that class period specifically. I had never heard people talk so openly about so private and personal a subject, and havent since.

We are scared of death. We may think about it, but its all in our brains and our own internal monologues. Its never a discussion with others.

Pepe Silvia

yes, i would think they know overall, a squeaky toy might throw them off.

i work at an animal rescue, i would say with confidence every single 1 of those animals knows i am a living thing, i doubt any think the same of their bed or the slip leads we use.

PJaddicted

catefrances wrote:

PJaddicted wrote:

I have a Doberman and they are called the dog with a human brain. He is very smart, and for sure knows what's alive and what annoys the crap out of him like motocross bikes, he wants to eat them, but not because they are living and breathing. He was bred for personal protection and when he sees his human in danger, he gets visibly upset and wants to get them safe again. He will even try to pull my kids out of a kayak,off of a skate board, etc. because he can't be with them on the water or racing around. Dobermans were bred to *think* and they do, they can look at a situation and make decisions on what to do. I've had my dogs temperament tested, and he passed with flying colors and has his WAC title. I hike with him almost every day of the year and he is exposed to birds, mammals, reptiles, etc. He chases bears and and really doesn't like them, I think he knows they could be a danger. Not all dogs are smart.....some work more on instinct,for some training can over ride instinct, and some have everything bred out of them, so they can be a lap dog. I've had a lot of dogs in my life, and Petey is by far the smartest and most fun to share my life with.

hpw arrogant is this statement. tis as if we regard animals as having lesser intelligence rather than different intelligence. and that all intelligence be measured against ours. utter bollocks.


p.s. PJaddicted.. im not having a go at you.

I agree....but most people don't see it that way, I'm in the public eye because of the volunteer work I do, and don't want to come off as odd, I need to be taken seriously, so I keep my thoughts about that to myself. I'm very involved with animals, I'm an avid hiker and nature watcher, I am a licensed wildlife Rehabber doing rehab work through my local Humane Society, I also count hawks and eagles for HMANA, each Fall for ten weeks, I am also studying to be a Master Naturalist. I do believe as a whole we humans are most likely the dumbest creature on earth.... :shifty: We destroy everything.

HeavyHands

My friends seven year old son has epilepsy. Last week she was alerted to him having a seizure by her cat loudly meowing and walking circles around the boy's head as he was on the ground.

Dogs and cats are remarkable companions.

Pepe Silvia

HeavyHands wrote:

My friends seven year old son has epilepsy. Last week she was alerted to him having a seizure by her cat loudly meowing and walking circles around the boy's head as he was on the ground.

Dogs and cats are remarkable companions.

i remember seeing a story a year or so ago about a cat at a nursing home who seemed to know who was about to die and would lay in their beds with them for a few days and then they would die

decides2dream

musicismylife78 wrote:

----

I disagree. While we as humans do think about death often, its almost always an individual thing. You arent going to go to a party with friends and spend the evening discussing your fears about dying and how you feel when you die you may not have accomplished everything you wanted. And by and large, tv shows, books, and movies really dont discuss it either.

In college, we happened to discuss, tangentially, death. We spent an entire class period one day, on that subject. And the professor pointed out, accurately, that this discussion was rare and unique, it just doesnt happen. I will never forget that class, and that class period specifically. I had never heard people talk so openly about so private and personal a subject, and havent since.

We are scared of death. We may think about it, but its all in our brains and our own internal monologues. Its never a discussion with others.

and, that is your experience...not mine. i've actually had many an indepth discussion of death, with friends, with people close to me...and numerous times in college. it is not rare or unique in my experience. at all. most especially amongst people who have experienced death close to them, or threat of death due to illness, etc. it is very much discussed, in all forms. books and film and music happen to deal with death often, so again, perhaps it's your experience they don't.....but that is not necessarily true for all.

i do agree, many are scared of death. i also think that's a major reason it gets discussed.
animals in my mind have the right idea....just live!

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

HeavyHands wrote:

My friends seven year old son has epilepsy. Last week she was alerted to him having a seizure by her cat loudly meowing and walking circles around the boy's head as he was on the ground.

Dogs and cats are remarkable companions.

i remember seeing a story a year or so ago about a cat at a nursing home who seemed to know who was about to die and would lay in their beds with them for a few days and then they would die

i thought i saw that in a film once!

Pepe Silvia

decides2dream wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

HeavyHands wrote:

My friends seven year old son has epilepsy. Last week she was alerted to him having a seizure by her cat loudly meowing and walking circles around the boy's head as he was on the ground.

Dogs and cats are remarkable companions.

i remember seeing a story a year or so ago about a cat at a nursing home who seemed to know who was about to die and would lay in their beds with them for a few days and then they would die

i thought i saw that in a film once!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959718/
Cat plays furry grim reaper at nursing home
Oscar has predicted 25 deaths by curling up next to patient in final hours

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Oscar the cat seems to have an uncanny knack for predicting when nursing home patients are going to die, by curling up next to them during their final hours.

His accuracy, observed in 25 cases, has led the staff to call family members once he has chosen someone. It usually means they have less than four hours to live.

“He doesn’t make too many mistakes. He seems to understand when patients are about to die,” said Dr. David Dosa in an interview. He describes the phenomenon in a poignant essay in Thursday’s issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

“Many family members take some solace from it. They appreciate the companionship that the cat provides for their dying loved one,” said Dosa, a geriatrician and assistant professor of medicine at Brown University.

The 2-year-old feline was adopted as a kitten and grew up in a third-floor dementia unit at the Steere House Nursing and Rehabilitation Center. The facility treats people with Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease and other illnesses.

After about six months, the staff noticed Oscar would make his own rounds, just like the doctors and nurses. He’d sniff and observe patients, then sit beside people who would wind up dying in a few hours.

Aloof and businesslike feline
Dosa said Oscar seems to take his work seriously and is generally aloof. “This is not a cat that’s friendly to people,” he said.

Oscar is better at predicting death than the people who work there, said Dr. Joan Teno of Brown University, who treats patients at the nursing home and is an expert on care for the terminally ill.

She was convinced of Oscar’s talent when he made his 13th correct call. While observing one patient, Teno said she noticed the woman wasn’t eating, was breathing with difficulty and that her legs had a bluish tinge, signs that often mean death is near.

Oscar wouldn’t stay inside the room though, so Teno thought his streak was broken. Instead, it turned out the doctor’s prediction was roughly 10 hours too early. Sure enough, during the patient’s final two hours, nurses told Teno that Oscar joined the woman at her bedside.

Furry harbinger of death
Doctors say most of the people who get a visit from the sweet-faced, gray-and-white cat are so ill they probably don’t know he’s there, so patients aren’t aware he’s a harbinger of death. Most families are grateful for the advanced warning, although one wanted Oscar out of the room while a family member died. When Oscar is put outside, he paces and meows his displeasure.

No one’s certain if Oscar’s behavior is scientifically significant or points to a cause. Teno wonders if the cat notices telltale scents or reads something into the behavior of the nurses who raised him.

Nicholas Dodman, who directs an animal behavioral clinic at the Tufts University Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine and has read Dosa’s article, said the only way to know is to carefully document how Oscar divides his time between the living and dying.

Click for related content
Discuss: Do pets recognize human suffering?
Don't let your cat think outside the box
Chihuahua saves boy from rattler

If Oscar really is a furry grim reaper, it’s also possible his behavior could be driven by self-centered pleasures like a heated blanket placed on a dying person, Dodman said.

Nursing home staffers aren’t concerned with explaining Oscar, so long as he gives families a better chance at saying goodbye to the dying.

Oscar recently received a wall plaque publicly commending his “compassionate hospice care.”

decides2dream

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959718/
Cat plays furry grim reaper at nursing home
Oscar has predicted 25 deaths by curling up next to patient in final hours

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Oscar the cat seems to have an uncanny knack for predicting when nursing home patients are going to die, by curling up next to them during their final hours.

His accuracy, observed in 25 cases, has led the staff to call family members once he has chosen someone. It usually means they have less than four hours to live.

“He doesn’t make too many mistakes. He seems to understand when patients are about to die,” said Dr. David Dosa in an interview. He describes the phenomenon in a poignant essay in Thursday’s issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

“Many family members take some solace from it. They appreciate the companionship that the cat provides for their dying loved one,” said Dosa, a geriatrician and assistant professor of medicine at Brown University.

The 2-year-old feline was adopted as a kitten and grew up in a third-floor dementia unit at the Steere House Nursing and Rehabilitation Center. The facility treats people with Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease and other illnesses.

After about six months, the staff noticed Oscar would make his own rounds, just like the doctors and nurses. He’d sniff and observe patients, then sit beside people who would wind up dying in a few hours.

Aloof and businesslike feline
Dosa said Oscar seems to take his work seriously and is generally aloof. “This is not a cat that’s friendly to people,” he said.

Oscar is better at predicting death than the people who work there, said Dr. Joan Teno of Brown University, who treats patients at the nursing home and is an expert on care for the terminally ill.

She was convinced of Oscar’s talent when he made his 13th correct call. While observing one patient, Teno said she noticed the woman wasn’t eating, was breathing with difficulty and that her legs had a bluish tinge, signs that often mean death is near.

Oscar wouldn’t stay inside the room though, so Teno thought his streak was broken. Instead, it turned out the doctor’s prediction was roughly 10 hours too early. Sure enough, during the patient’s final two hours, nurses told Teno that Oscar joined the woman at her bedside.

Furry harbinger of death
Doctors say most of the people who get a visit from the sweet-faced, gray-and-white cat are so ill they probably don’t know he’s there, so patients aren’t aware he’s a harbinger of death. Most families are grateful for the advanced warning, although one wanted Oscar out of the room while a family member died. When Oscar is put outside, he paces and meows his displeasure.

No one’s certain if Oscar’s behavior is scientifically significant or points to a cause. Teno wonders if the cat notices telltale scents or reads something into the behavior of the nurses who raised him.

Nicholas Dodman, who directs an animal behavioral clinic at the Tufts University Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine and has read Dosa’s article, said the only way to know is to carefully document how Oscar divides his time between the living and dying.

Click for related content
Discuss: Do pets recognize human suffering?
Don't let your cat think outside the box
Chihuahua saves boy from rattler

If Oscar really is a furry grim reaper, it’s also possible his behavior could be driven by self-centered pleasures like a heated blanket placed on a dying person, Dodman said.

Nursing home staffers aren’t concerned with explaining Oscar, so long as he gives families a better chance at saying goodbye to the dying.

Oscar recently received a wall plaque publicly commending his “compassionate hospice care.”

didn't doubt ya. just thought i saw it in a flick too. now reading it again, i do remember reading it first time round. i also realize, what i was thinking of - the film the savages. and, it was about people's toes curling when they are close to dying. so kinda relate, and yet....not.

Pepe Silvia

decides2dream wrote:

didn't doubt ya. just thought i saw it in a flick too. now reading it again, i do remember reading it first time round. i also realize, what i was thinking of - the film the savages. and, it was about people's toes curling when they are close to dying. so kinda relate, and yet....not.

haha i liked that movie

decides2dream

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

didn't doubt ya. just thought i saw it in a flick too. now reading it again, i do remember reading it first time round. i also realize, what i was thinking of - the film the savages. and, it was about people's toes curling when they are close to dying. so kinda relate, and yet....not.

haha i liked that movie

i LOVED that film!
laura linney + phillip seymour hoffmann = genius every time!
so horribly sad, yet also so funny!


keeping with the thread...her kitty and that dog especially....fantastic! and i am sure they both could tell the difference from the living and the non.

musicismylife78

very interesting responses. I was amazed when I read about the birds that hold funerals and mourn. very interesting.

Still, havent you all had dogs that barked at the vaccum cleaner? Our old dog would run and hide whenever we merely wheeled the vaccum cleaner out. He would bark even if it wasnt turned on. And my parents have talked about coming home, and seeing the dog sleeping on the floor, his paws wrapped around one of those stuffed animal chew toys.