Gun-toting soccer mom, husband found shot dead

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

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Johnny Sitar wrote:

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

Any and all accidents can be traced to not following one of these rules listed above. Just like driving, if everyone would follow the rules, there would be no accidents, but we still hand out drivers licenses and sell cars to people. I'm almost willing to bet that the percentage is higher for car owners to be killed in a car accident then gun owners by guns.....don't know if there is data out there for that statistic or not.

and that proves my point. I said that guns would be fine as long as 100% of people were responsible 100% of the time. And we know that is not possible.

The "bad people have guns so I deserve one too" is not a logical argument, and you know it.

And the purpose of a car is not to kill someone. It's to get somewhere. You can't use that as a comparison. You could use that same analogy about pretty much anything that can be used as a weapon, but it's primary task is nothing to do with it at all. Guns were made to harm. Animals. People. Property. You cannot argue that.

I think it is a logical argument, its a right here in our country, and it can't be taken away. And how can you take something away based on a small percentage of people who cause gun crimes?

If you want pro gun people to throw away their weapons and see you're point, you're going to have to have some idea of what you're talking about and at least go to a class. No one is making you buy a weapon, and you still don't have to like them, but at least know what your talking about. If anything it will make your argument stronger for it.

the debate here, as far as I understand, is not whether or not it is legal or not to own a firearm. It's whether it makes sense. To me, it does not. Simple as that. What do you need a gun for? I bet NOTHING. Part of your rationale is you say it is fun. So are a lot of things that are illegal and wrong and bad for you/others around you. Speeding is also fun. But illegal and dangerous. Drinking underage is fun. But illegal and dangerous. Shooting a gun is, to you, fun. Bringing a gun to a child's soccer game is ludicrous, and dangerous. Unfortunately, in your country, legal. Which is also ludicrous. In Canada, that mom would be put in jail and publicly chastised for being so stupid and irresponsible. In your country, unfortunately, she's applauded by some for exercising her right to bear arms. Any idea what this person was doing with her gun? Maybe she was scared of the murderous-looking 15 year old referee? :roll:

I will ask ONE MORE TIME: please enlighten me how going to a class and/or shooting a gun possibly could make any sense or difference in the context of this debate? how does going to a class about shooting a gun make me any more learned on the subject of guns killing people and give me more credibility? It's irrelevant.

Just like I said. I don't have to do heroin to know that it's harmful. I don't have to shoot a gun to know that they kill people.

Johnny,


Its called having an open mind. How are you going to form an educated opinion with out knowing both sides? For a far left board, people here really kick and scream when it comes to trying something different. You want people to have an open mind to your view point, you should do the same. I'm hearing your argument, and see your point, but I think a lot of it is in fear, and a stereotype of what Americans are. The experience will only strengthen your argument.

Johnny Sitar wrote:

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OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Johnny,


Its called having an open mind. How are you going to form an educated opinion with out knowing both sides? For a far left board, people here really kick and scream when it comes to trying something different. You want people to have an open mind to your view point, you should do the same. I'm hearing your argument, and see your point, but I think a lot of it is in fear, and a stereotype of what Americans are. The experience will only strengthen your argument.

I do have an open mind. You are not, again, again, again, telling me what exactly about the shooting experience will enlighten me on the subject?

Holding a gun in my hands, or taking a class on how to use one, has absolutely no bearing on the argument on whether it should be a fundamental right of regular citizens to own one. That's ludicrous. See my comparisons of such ludicrousness in my previous posts.

Fear. That's laughable and a weak argument that is the last gasp by someone who can't support their claims. I am asking for a simple explanation on why I need to hold a gun to know it's not necessary for a law abiding citizen to own one, and am repeatedly ignored.

And I never said anything about any American stereotype. I commented on your gun laws being silly. There are as many gun-totin' nutjobs in Canada as there are in America, our justice system just treats them differently. And there's a reason for that.

I think you're getting a little heated here bud, this is a board for debate....I don't know who pissed in your cheerios but relax a little. I'm not asking you to see things my way, I'm just asking you to at least see experience the other side of things before making a formal opinion. You can hate guns even more after the fact for all I care, but at least you will know what you're talking about.

I want to own a gun for the following reasons:

-Its a right in my country

- I like shooting them

- And to protect myself or family if the situation should ever happen (which is the absolute last situation after calling the police or simply running away)

I'm not looking to hurt anyone, end of story. I'm a repsonsible gun owner and I don't want it taken away from me because of the actions of a few. You have absolutly no reason to fear them, and it is fear, otherwise you wouldn't be so angry about the topic.

Commy wrote:

i knew a kid in highschool who used to ask kids if their parents owned any guns. and if he found some who did he would break into their house and steal them. the fact that they had guns made them LESS safe, not more.

That kid had one hell of a death wish. Breaking into a house where the owners owned guns. That is a first.

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

I think you're getting a little heated here bud, this is a board for debate....I don't know who pissed in your cheerios but relax a little. I'm not asking you to see things my way, I'm just asking you to at least see experience the other side of things before making a formal opinion. You can hate guns even more after the fact for all I care, but at least you will know what you're talking about.

I want to own a gun for the following reasons:

-Its a right in my country

- I like shooting them

- And to protect myself or family if the situation should ever happen (which is the absolute last situation after calling the police or simply running away)

I'm not looking to hurt anyone, end of story. I'm a repsonsible gun owner and I don't want it taken away from me because of the actions of a few. You have absolutly no reason to fear them, and it is fear, otherwise you wouldn't be so angry about the topic.

I'm not heated. If you are reading that into my posts, there's nothing I can do about that. And I don't eat cheerios. I'm a Shreddies man. I'm just waiting, patiently, for your explanation on why shooting a gun would at all change my perception or add to my enlightenment on the subject. You just keep saying over and over again that I am not allowed my opinion until I shoot a gun. My opinion on that is it's ludicrous. If that's heated, then I hope you never have to use the arms you bear at anyone you think may have eaten pissed-in-Cheerios. God help us all.

I don't fear guns. I don't hate guns. Just like I don't fear heroin, but I fear if my kid were to try it. I fear idiots with guns. Humans, as a species, are not smart enough as a whole to possess such a weapon.

Yes, there are those that are responsible, and you say you are one of them. Kudos to you. I sincerely hope for your sake that someone in your family does not become just another statistic of mistaken identity when you (or someone else in your family) is mistaken for an intruder. It happens, responsible gun owner or not.

And yes, it currently IS your right to have a gun. My opinion is that it shouldn't be. And you don't need any gun experience to hold that opinion.

Johnny Sitar wrote:

and you keep telling me that I'm fearful of guns. It is my position that you are the pot calling the kettle black. Half, if not most, of the reason people own guns, besides hunters and enthusiasts/collectors, is FEAR, as you outlined as one of the 3 reasons you own a gun.

Take a poll of North Americans, and wade through the "I own it because it's my right" BS.

Protection will be your #1 answer. FEAR.

I, on the other hand, don't own a gun because I'm NOT fearful.

Sorry man, I don't know what else I could say. I pretty much sumed up my view on the situation, I don't know what else I can tell you to answer your question.....unless you're just trying to play games by running around with open ended questions? People seem to do that here a lot.

I'm pretty happy with my choice to own a weapon, and I lucky that I have that right to do so. I guess if people don't like the fact that people own weapons, then vote on a change, if the majority says its wrong, then I will have to give it up. One thing is for sure, violent crime isn't going to fall off with the banning weapons. You're going to just take them away from people who aren't the risk.

Johnny Sitar wrote:

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OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

and you keep telling me that I'm fearful of guns. It is my position that you are the pot calling the kettle black. Half, if not most, of the reason people own guns, besides hunters and enthusiasts/collectors, is FEAR, as you outlined as one of the 3 reasons you own a gun.

Take a poll of North Americans, and wade through the "I own it because it's my right" BS.

Protection will be your #1 answer. FEAR.

I, on the other hand, don't own a gun because I'm NOT fearful.

Sorry man, I don't know what else I could say. I pretty much sumed up my view on the situation, I don't know what else I can tell you to answer your question.....unless you're just trying to play games by running around with open ended questions? People seem to do that here a lot.



I'm pretty happy with my choice to own a weapon, and I lucky that I have that right to do so. I guess if people don't like the fact that people own weapons, then vote on a change, if the majority says its wrong, then I will have to give it up. One thing is for sure, violent crime isn't going to fall off with the banning weapons. You're going to just take them away from people who aren't the risk.

no, I'm not trying to play games. that annoys me as well. I think maybe we are just on different wavelengths.

I agree completely that violent crime won't go away with the banning of weapons, if anything, it will strengthen the black market on such items. there is no easy answer either way.

Can we at least agree that is was somewhat ridiculous that a person brought a handgun to a kid's soccer game?

Yes we can...I would never bring my kids some place I felt the need to carry a weapon. Not smart.