Unthought Known

decides2dream · September 2009

All the thoughts,... You never see,... You’re always thinking,...
Brain is wired,... Brain is deep,... Oh are you sinking?,...

Feel the path of every day,... Which road you taking?,...
Breathing hard,... & Making hay,... Yeh this is living,...

Look for love & evidence,... That you’re worth keeping,...
Swallowed whole in negatives,... It's so sad & sickening,...

Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky,...
Fill the air up with love,... Black w/starlight,...

Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
For you to walk on,...

Nothing left,... Nothing left,...
Nothing there,... Nothing left,...

See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
See the waves on distant shores,... Awaiting your arrival,...

Dream the dreams of other men,... You’ll be no ones rival,...
Dream the dreams of others then,... You will be no ones rival,...
You will be no ones rival,...

A distant time,... A distant space,... That’s where we’re living —..
A distant time,... A distant place,... So what you giving?,...
What you giving?

this song deserves it's OWN, solo thread......this and just breathe....absolute LOVE here. and once more, what lyrics! just overflowing with amazing imagery and thoughts....

theoceansmademe · September 2009

Absolutely.

I jsut made a post about this song and the children's book Where the Wild Things Are, it appears have been written just for that book.

decides2dream · September 2009

theoceansmademe wrote:

Absolutely.

I jsut made a post about this song and the children's book Where the Wild Things Are, it appears have been written just for that book.

i saw that right after i posted this.....the book title as a thread title did not make me think of the connection, but i enjoyed your thoughts!

and one more thing.......i CAN'T WAIT to hear this LIVE!!! :shock:

to hear ed belt out certain lyrics with such emotion....OMG......cannot wait!

oh, and this probably should be here too:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/art ... le1290301/

Unthought Known

Culled from a book, a talk with an actress, and one late night.

“It's about a conversation with Catherine Keener, and a book – I think it might have even been called Unthought Known . I got back late to my hotel in New York, and I pushed it that extra hour. I pushed the limits of how much you can drink and smoke, and this song came out of it. I think the thought of the song is that there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

cuddlebug · September 2009

decides2dream wrote:

this song deserves it's OWN, solo thread......this and just breathe....absolute LOVE here. and once more, what lyrics! just overflowing with amazing imagery and thoughts....

I am 100% in agreement. These are my two absolute favorite songs on this album.

DeLukin · September 2009

Awesome song. My current BS favorite.

decides2dream · September 2009

cuddlebug wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

this song deserves it's OWN, solo thread......this and just breathe....absolute LOVE here. and once more, what lyrics! just overflowing with amazing imagery and thoughts....

I am 100% in agreement. These are my two absolute favorite songs on this album.

seriously.
i've said it before but i really think there are 2 different albums going on here. that is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is something that i personally notice. i guess pj will never cease to amaze me.....to have a song like johnny guitar and then one like unthought known....is bizarrely amazing to me! not a fan of johnny....but unthought.......it gets better and better for me, if that is even possible?

btw - how does everyone feel about the strings, pinao and such? i am on the fence about it all....and just ever curious of others' thoughts.....

troubled_soul · September 2009

decides2dream wrote:

btw - how does everyone feel about the strings, pinao and such? i am on the fence about it all....and just ever curious of others' thoughts.....

I think the strings an piano are placed in just the right spots so they work. They add to the building crescendo, along with the incredible drumming on the song.

Definitely my favorite song on the album. Can't stop looping it over and over!

CorduroyGal · September 2009

The first time I heard the entire album I cried during Unthought Known (as well as through the entire album- it felt the cd was actually written for me- it's such a beautiful song. I agree that Eddie and the band have struck so many notes that were absolutely perfect and full of life :P

scoob1057 · September 2009

This is the OFF He Goes of this album for me

decides2dream · September 2009

troubled_soul wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

btw - how does everyone feel about the strings, pinao and such? i am on the fence about it all....and just ever curious of others' thoughts.....

I think the strings an piano are placed in just the right spots so they work. They add to the building crescendo, along with the incredible drumming on the song.

Definitely my favorite song on the album. Can't stop looping it over and over!

i agree. they are in the right spots, they do work...but i still don't know if i truly 'like' them. :P
this song really stays with me, in my head. i love that.

stuckinline · September 2009

i thought this song could be almost a song to a child from their parent. basically saying the whole world is out there for them, good and bad but, it's up to the child what they will do/be in the world. just my 2 cents. oh, i love this song!

All the thoughts,... You never see,... You’re always thinking,...
Brain is wired,... Brain is deep,... Oh are you sinking?,...

Feel the path of every day,... Which road you taking?,...
Breathing hard,... & Making hay,... Yeh this is living,...

Look for love & evidence,... That you’re worth keeping,...
Swallowed whole in negatives,... It's so sad & sickening,...

Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky,...
Fill the air up with love,... Black w/starlight,...

Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
For you to walk on,...

(the whole world is their's for the taking)

Nothing left,... Nothing left,...
Nothing there,... Nothing left,...

See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
See the waves on distant shores,... Awaiting your arrival,...

Dream the dreams of other men,... You’ll be no ones rival,...
Dream the dreams of others then,... You will be no ones rival,...
You will be no ones rival,...

(the chid will study other people in school, but they can become whatever they want)

A distant time,... A distant space,... That’s where we’re living —..
A distant time,... A distant place,... So what you giving?,...
What you giving?

(the parent asking the child what he/she will do in the world, what are you giving?)

decides2dream · September 2009

stuckinline wrote:

i thought this song could be almost a lullaby to a child from their parent. basically saying the whole world is out there for them, good and bad but, it's up to the child what they will do/be in the world. just my 2 cents. oh, i love this song!

(the parent asking the child what he/she will do in the world, what are you giving?)

that really is a beautiful thought/intrepretation!

Ms. Haiku · September 2009

Just going by the lyrics here, it seems like a sad song.

This is positive:

Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky,...
Fill the air up with love,... Black w/starlight,...

Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
For you to walk on,...

But the rest is more like what Jeff Ament, the loner on the inside, is always writing about.

The use of the word rival is interesting. (Binarual again? Do I have the ghost of albums past correct?) Rival implies a challenge, and not necessarily positive. Would you say to someone you love you will be no ones rival or would you say to someone you don't want to see again, you will be no ones rival as in go away and live a life that doesn't affect anyone?

slightofjeff · September 2009

I love that this thread is here. This has become my favorite song on the album, but I'm not really sure what it means.

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

But what does that mean? Could somebody give me an example? And even so, what does that have to do with the song, which to me sounds (as someone else mentioned) like the advice a parent might give to a child before ushering them out of the nest and into the world?

"Dream the dreams of other men; you will be no one's rival."

I love that line, even as I struggle with the meaning. It sounds like an imperative, with the outcome of "being no one's rival" being positive. But is it?

I have a lot of questions about this song. I hope this thread keeps going, because then maybe we'll stumble upon some answers.

Ms. Haiku · September 2009

slightofjeff wrote:

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

Aha! an example of an unknown thought is our individual interpretations of the song that tie our experiences together like spokes to a wheel, but that we couldn't have known would tie our experiences together unless we heard the song. It has an element of predetermined destiny, doesn't it?

Wow! I amaze myself.

slightofjeff · September 2009

Ms. Haiku wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

Aha! an example of an unknown thought is our individual interpretations of the song that tie our experiences together like spokes to a wheel, but that we couldn't have known would tie our experiences together unless we heard the song. It has an element of predetermined destiny, doesn't it?

Wow! I amaze myself.

Maybe kind of like a collective unconscious sort of thing. There are things everyone knows without actually knowing them. Or something.

decides2dream · September 2009

slightofjeff wrote:

Ms. Haiku wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

Aha! an example of an unknown thought is our individual interpretations of the song that tie our experiences together like spokes to a wheel, but that we couldn't have known would tie our experiences together unless we heard the song. It has an element of predetermined destiny, doesn't it?

Wow! I amaze myself.

Maybe kind of like a collective unconscious sort of thing. There are things everyone knows without actually knowing them. Or something.

ms. haiku, well done.
see jeff, i saw you in some other thread on some other song, tell them they were being too specific/narrow in their individual interpretation of the song. but again, whatever ed meant, OUR interpretations...are our OWN. we own them, and there is no wrong in your own reaction to art. so there are myriad interpretations that can be gleaned from a song, and sure...some may be 'right' in regards to the artist's initial intention, but given what art is about....still doesn't make another thought on it 'wrong.'

as to your last statement, isn't that exactly what ed said in desciribing it all? damn near close to it in any case. definitely a very cool thought to ponder tho.....

decides2dream · September 2009

slightofjeff wrote:

I love that this thread is here. This has become my favorite song on the album, but I'm not really sure what it means.

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

But what does that mean? Could somebody give me an example? And even so, what does that have to do with the song, which to me sounds (as someone else mentioned) like the advice a parent might give to a child before ushering them out of the nest and into the world?

"Dream the dreams of other men; you will be no one's rival."

I love that line, even as I struggle with the meaning. It sounds like an imperative, with the outcome of "being no one's rival" being positive. But is it?

I have a lot of questions about this song. I hope this thread keeps going, because then maybe we'll stumble upon some answers.

btw - i don't think there ARe *answers* per se, just reactions, thoughts and feelings. answers suggest something 'right'....a real conclusion, and i think even ed would have a hard time with that.

didn't ed also mention it was borne out of a very late night convo with catherine keener? so yea, i can just imagine...discussing this book he mentions.....spurring other, related and unrelated, convo from there....spurring on additional thoughts....add in drinks....nicotine...late hours....the glow/buzz from said intoxicants, great conversation....and yea...i just don't foresee *answers*......just more questions.

probably why i love this tune, and so much of what ed writes.....

decides2dream · September 2009

Ms. Haiku wrote:

Just going by the lyrics here, it seems like a sad song.

This is positive:

Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky,...
Fill the air up with love,... Black w/starlight,...

Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
For you to walk on,...

But the rest is more like what Jeff Ament, the loner on the inside, is always writing about.

The use of the word rival is interesting. (Binarual again? Do I have the ghost of albums past correct?) Rival implies a challenge, and not necessarily positive. Would you say to someone you love you will be no ones rival or would you say to someone you don't want to see again, you will be no ones rival as in go away and live a life that doesn't affect anyone?

as to the rival question...it could be positive, or negative....either.
on the porch within another lyric discussion, two possibilities arose:

dream the dream of other men, you'll be no one's rival

meaning, dream the dream of others...understand them, sympathise/empathize....anf therefore you'll be no one's rival, no one's enemy.....sounds rather positive

another thought....

if you dream the same dream as other men, you are not distinguishing yourself, you are being just like everyone else...you will not be anyone's rival, b/c you'll be the same, not stand out, unworthy of challenge.....sounds negative, but also can be positive, to spur you on TO think your own thoughts, have your own dreams...

for me, within the context of the positivity i feel within the rest of the lyrics, and delivery of the lyrics....i think it's all positive. that's what i *feel* from the words and music. but again, that's just me.

gawd...i love this shit.
thank you all for these awesome discussions...and thank you pearl jam, as ever.

Ms. Haiku · September 2009

Alright, who else keeps accidentally writing Unknown Thought instead of Unthought known?

*blush* :P

justam · September 2009

I love the sound of this song. I love the way it grows more and more excited as it goes on.

However, I am a bit confused by the line that everyone else is confused by: "Dream the dreams of other men and you will be no one's rival." I'm just not really sure what that's supposed to mean!

Unthought Known

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