most of us know that Ed is a huge participator/believer in Transcendental Meditation. This article ties Mindfulness meditation into the meaning of Unthought Known (these are the last 2 paragraphs of the link above):
Another source of uncovering the unthought known is to explore the repetitive roles that we act out in
our interpersonal relationships and the corresponding redundant roles that we induce in others. When we
release the energy and information that is held in these roles, we travel a long way towards the goal of
liberating ourselves from unconscious fixations and patterns. Once we have done this we are free to
choose the roles that are adaptive for the situation that we are in at the moment and release the roles that
are maladaptive. Perhaps the deepest level of the unthought known is the heart of the teachings of mindfulness
meditation. The heart of these teachings, which we know already but have forgotten, is that
fundamentally we are awareness itself, already liberated from our fixations, fears and redundancies,
without essential content, beyond subject and object, everything and nothing, and that whatever we are
in life we also are not. This is the “non-dual” consciousness at the heart of so many mystical and
meditative traditions (Wilber, 2003). In other words, the deepest level of the unthought known and the
edge of the unknown, are the same thing.
most of us know that Ed is a huge participator/believer in Transcendental Meditation. This article ties Mindfulness meditation into the meaning of Unthought Known (these are the last 2 paragraphs of the link above):
Another source of uncovering the unthought known is to explore the repetitive roles that we act out in
our interpersonal relationships and the corresponding redundant roles that we induce in others. When we
release the energy and information that is held in these roles, we travel a long way towards the goal of
liberating ourselves from unconscious fixations and patterns. Once we have done this we are free to
choose the roles that are adaptive for the situation that we are in at the moment and release the roles that
are maladaptive. Perhaps the deepest level of the unthought known is the heart of the teachings of mindfulness
meditation. The heart of these teachings, which we know already but have forgotten, is that
fundamentally we are awareness itself, already liberated from our fixations, fears and redundancies,
without essential content, beyond subject and object, everything and nothing, and that whatever we are
in life we also are not. This is the “non-dual” consciousness at the heart of so many mystical and
meditative traditions (Wilber, 2003). In other words, the deepest level of the unthought known and the
edge of the unknown, are the same thing.
Translation: Ed does way too many drugs.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
most of us know that Ed is a huge participator/believer in Transcendental Meditation. This article ties Mindfulness meditation into the meaning of Unthought Known (these are the last 2 paragraphs of the link above):
Another source of uncovering the unthought known is to explore the repetitive roles that we act out in
our interpersonal relationships and the corresponding redundant roles that we induce in others. When we
release the energy and information that is held in these roles, we travel a long way towards the goal of
liberating ourselves from unconscious fixations and patterns. Once we have done this we are free to
choose the roles that are adaptive for the situation that we are in at the moment and release the roles that
are maladaptive. Perhaps the deepest level of the unthought known is the heart of the teachings of mindfulness
meditation. The heart of these teachings, which we know already but have forgotten, is that
fundamentally we are awareness itself, already liberated from our fixations, fears and redundancies,
without essential content, beyond subject and object, everything and nothing, and that whatever we are
in life we also are not. This is the “non-dual” consciousness at the heart of so many mystical and
meditative traditions (Wilber, 2003). In other words, the deepest level of the unthought known and the
edge of the unknown, are the same thing.
Translation: Ed does way too many drugs.
is that what it is? here i was about to take up transcendental meditation, but i think upping my drug consumption would be less of a hassle.
people, it is absolutely briliant that such thread does exist. I mean it. till now, kill me, I read the Porch section only. just discovered this section about the lyrics. being "no native" in english I have quite a big troubles to understand some of the songs` meanings.
unthought known is my favourite on BS. and I would really love to understand the meaning once in my life
"Dream of dreams of other men..." is exactly the part I am struggling with. I see you discussed that already. I am hardly accepting the fact that Eddie is trying to "promote" the people should think all the same to avoid conflicts. I think people should go their own way in their lives. maybe I am missing something. I need to dig in to the psycho thing outlined above, which I haven`t got time yet to study
I don't know why, but the first couple of times I heard the song I thought it was about us, in the present time, being responsible for paving the path for future generations to walk on.
To the future generations, we're the past.
"A distant time, a distance space, that's where we're living...
A distant time, a different place, so what you giving?"
What are we giving to the world to shape the future, to help generations to come?
And the whole Unthought Known thing .. someone mentioned collective sentience etc. Perhaps it's like how we're all related in some way or another, because we all share our existence on the timeline of Life in general. We're all in this together, and even our subconscious actions/thoughts will change the future without us even knowing it. I don't know, it's hard to explain heh.
That's what I took from the song anyway.
Btw hi, sup, this is my first post. Great to be one of you
I think the message is this: the human mind is powerful, in our simplest form, we are all LOVE, before circumstance and environment give us scars, we're LOVE. Evolution. Where we humans are now..slaving for dollars, distracted by so many things that shouldn't matter at all, losing contact...is far from where humans used to be...only using the sun's energy, really watching and studying the sky, interacting with each other. There's little left for us in this world we've destroyed. We are far from where we should be. Reevaluate life. Bring it back to the pure form. We all have the power to make it better.
"Dream the dreams of other men, you will be no one's rival." BE LOVE. BE PEACEFUL.
"Dream the dreams of other men and you will be no one's rival"
here's my latest personal interpretation/application of it...
A lot in this world (and negativity contained therein) seems to grow out of self righteousness, trying to one up/out do someone/something (corporation, country) and doesn't really seemed rooted in that which is "good" or beneficial for us/the earth/the world community....When someone/something/anyone/anything steps out of their confines/tendency to "one up" or "out do" and rather "embrace" (ehhem) the unknown/their fears/the visions/"the dreams" of others, we are able to see from that new point of view.
Even if we dispute the theory or are opposed by value to the core, we have taken the time to respect where this thought/this thing is coming from. It's completely unselfish and giving- you have given your time to understand this dream of another man (and ones dreams are truly intimate to the soul/their being)...
With this approach- you could naturally not have a rival as you would see eye to eye and understand at the true core. Now to think if world leaders incorporated this...
diggin on this thread...
got a car...got some gas...oh let's get out of here-get out of here fast...
I hope you get this message but your not home...I will be there in just a minute or so...
I want to go but I want to go with you.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. -MT
I've had enough, said enough, felt enough. I'm fine, still in it.
Ok, here's an example of unthought known in my mind
I was hanging outside in the night with my siblings sitting around a fire pit
That was unthought known
I think what is inherent in this unthought known is the lack of energy involved in it, the ability to just zone because in this case there was trust. It is when you feel like you are *home*
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
i thought this song could be almost a lullaby to a child from their parent. basically saying the whole world is out there for them, good and bad but, it's up to the child what they will do/be in the world. just my 2 cents. oh, i love this song!
(the parent asking the child what he/she will do in the world, what are you giving?)
that really is a beautiful thought/intrepretation!
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
See the waves on distant shores,... Awaiting your arrival,...
Dream the dreams of other men,... You’ll be no ones rival,...
Dream the dreams of others then,... You will be no ones rival,...
You will be no ones rival,...
A distant time,... A distant space,... That’s where we’re living —..
A distant time,... A distant place,... So what you giving?,...
What you giving?
this song deserves it's OWN, solo thread......this and just breathe....absolute LOVE here. and once more, what lyrics! just overflowing with amazing imagery and thoughts....
I aint gonna lie, at first when i bought the Backspacer album, i kinda skipped this song, but now that i saw them perform this song live, i think this has got to be one of my favorite songs off this album, this song rocks!!!
most of us know that Ed is a huge participator/believer in Transcendental Meditation. This article ties Mindfulness meditation into the meaning of Unthought Known (these are the last 2 paragraphs of the link above):
Another source of uncovering the unthought known is to explore the repetitive roles that we act out in
our interpersonal relationships and the corresponding redundant roles that we induce in others. When we
release the energy and information that is held in these roles, we travel a long way towards the goal of
liberating ourselves from unconscious fixations and patterns. Once we have done this we are free to
choose the roles that are adaptive for the situation that we are in at the moment and release the roles that
are maladaptive. Perhaps the deepest level of the unthought known is the heart of the teachings of mindfulness
meditation. The heart of these teachings, which we know already but have forgotten, is that
fundamentally we are awareness itself, already liberated from our fixations, fears and redundancies,
without essential content, beyond subject and object, everything and nothing, and that whatever we are
in life we also are not. This is the “non-dual” consciousness at the heart of so many mystical and
meditative traditions (Wilber, 2003). In other words, the deepest level of the unthought known and the
edge of the unknown, are the same thing.
"Dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival.."
How interesting that so many people are interested in this lyric.
Maybe it simply means have the hope and aspirations of other people and you will become their equal, you will have no enemy..
Sounds like a good trait to have if happen to be president.
I love this song too, and everyone's posts! I agree with the above quote that when you dream the dreams of other people, you should not feel ashamed or even competitive, but you should be inspired to go further - that you have dreamed as well, that you've added to the collective human dream, that we are evolution in motion. This song to me is sung to a child - the black sky filled with stars and love - blanketing you with gems and rhinestones. Such beautiful imagery! I love the path cut by the moon for you to walk on. You know, it takes a long time to literally see the moon cutting a path - about thirty mins is good. You can have sore eyes too though. In any case, this song is so inspiring how it builds, and gains passion, with the piano and guitar! I'd love to learn to play this whole thing on piano. I don't think one guitar would do it justice. This is my best song on Backspacer, and The End, and Johny Guitar.
I could keep going about this song, but I shouldn't. I love when Eddie repeats himself straight after - like in The End when he says I just wanted to grow old - the second time is to different from the first. In Unthought Known, it's you will be no-one's rival - don't compete, none exist, we all dream and aspire. I believe Unthought Known refers to the ability to recognize your true potential without knowing that that's what it was. You Know your hidden thoughts without thinking. Lastly, another time Ed repeated himself was in No Code when he said in Red Mosquito, "If I had known then what I know now", and then in I'm Open: "If he only knew now what he knew then", so it's like in "you will be no-one's rival" has alternate meanings, that the first utterance is to be inspired by others, and to feel like you don't need to compete, but then to say, it doesn't matter anyway, that you've never had other rivals - you're allowed to dream other dreams if you want, but you will always be YOU, which is beautiful, special, and unique. Hence, I think this is for kids in someways, adults are a little to complex. Our egos are bigger too. This is not to say adults can't enjoy it, but to also ask adults to put themselves in the shoes of youngans. The moon is cutting a path for you, and shore's are waiting! Go out there and make it happen, so what you giving?
just got the cd last night at a Target store. Can't stop listening to it. LOVE this song!!
and got the black t-shirt--awesome!
those t-shirts were too small for my fat ass, but damn i love this song , cant stop playing it.
yeah, it was almost too small for my fat ass as well , but luckily I've been losing some weight lately and plan to keep shedding them pounds! the shooting stars the other night reminded me of this song. Lately, though, I can't seem to get Just Breathe out of my head--not that I want to --just that I can't. Love the new cd!! so frickin' awesome, it is.
just got the cd last night at a Target store. Can't stop listening to it. LOVE this song!!
and got the black t-shirt--awesome!
those t-shirts were too small for my fat ass, but damn i love this song , cant stop playing it.
yeah, it was almost too small for my fat ass as well , but luckily I've been losing some weight lately and plan to keep shedding them pounds! the shooting stars the other night reminded me of this song. Lately, though, I can't seem to get Just Breathe out of my head--not that I want to --just that I can't. Love the new cd!! so frickin' awesome, it is.
yeah, its weird, every night, ive been having dreams, and the background song has always been "unthough known" except like 2 nights ago, for some reason i woke up singing "In Hiding" lol
Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
Just MAGICAL !
+1
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
FOR ME, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE SONGS THAT IS BETTER WHEN ITS HEARD LIVE, THEY ADD LIKE AN ECHOE EFFECT SOUNDS AWESOME. OH YEAH, IM STILL PLAYING IT ON REPEAT EVERY DAY IN MY CAR, LOL, LOVE IT
Wow, listening to the instruments in this song--the notes and chords sound so simple, yet the song is so freaking grand!
I noticed the incredible build....
1st verse is vocals and simple guitar
2nd verse adds a "picking chord" guitar
3rd verse adds the drums
4th verse adds the bass or piano
5th verse adds the one that the 4th verse doesn't add
then in the space before the lyrics "nothing left.." add the power chords and then for a little bit there's two distinct pianos.
Then in the final verse or so the build starts again but adds an instrument after each line rather than verse increments.
The art of playing this song successfully would be pulled off by NOT playing for a good bit, but sounds like this would be an incredibly fun song to play for a band!
The chords are F C with a F7 or C7, I forget,
Middle part starts with those chords before "nothing left"--the chords are D,F,C,G repeat
And those lyrics HOLY F. Chills galore, they are all so freakin good.
Look for love and evidence that you're worth keeping!
Wow, listening to the instruments in this song--the notes and chords sound so simple, yet the song is so freaking grand!
I noticed the incredible build....
1st verse is vocals and simple guitar
2nd verse adds a "picking chord" guitar
3rd verse adds the drums
4th verse adds the bass or piano
5th verse adds the one that the 4th verse doesn't add
then in the space before the lyrics "nothing left.." add the power chords and then for a little bit there's two distinct pianos.
Then in the final verse or so the build starts again but adds an instrument after each line rather than verse increments.
The art of playing this song successfully would be pulled off by NOT playing for a good bit, but sounds like this would be an incredibly fun song to play for a band!
The chords are F C with a F7 or C7, I forget,
Middle part starts with those chords before "nothing left"--the chords are D,F,C,G repeat
And those lyrics HOLY F. Chills galore, they are all so freakin good.
Look for love and evidence that you're worth keeping!
yeah, the increase in sound and instruments is amazing!
"look for LOVE and evidence"--I knew I got the lyrics wrong before--oh for shame, for shame.
YES!!! Could not agree more with all of you! I absolutely WORSHIP this song!!!!!! What a fuckin feeling it inspires!!! The way it builds! AHhh! Exactly! Sooo uplifting! It paints such a beautiful picture too. Total spiritual experience all around. These words just tap directly into your soul! Omg and live?!?! :shock: It's all taken to even MORE amazing levels. Everyone clapping in the very beginning?!?!??! *chills all over* Completely magical! It's songs like this that make me feel alive, ya know?? I can't get enough!! *bows down*
Really incredible responses in this thread...makes me love it even more.
¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤
"Lo√e, you know the word
...YOU invented it!" ~ E√
Comments
*thumbs up*
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
most of us know that Ed is a huge participator/believer in Transcendental Meditation. This article ties Mindfulness meditation into the meaning of Unthought Known (these are the last 2 paragraphs of the link above):
Another source of uncovering the unthought known is to explore the repetitive roles that we act out in
our interpersonal relationships and the corresponding redundant roles that we induce in others. When we
release the energy and information that is held in these roles, we travel a long way towards the goal of
liberating ourselves from unconscious fixations and patterns. Once we have done this we are free to
choose the roles that are adaptive for the situation that we are in at the moment and release the roles that
are maladaptive.
Perhaps the deepest level of the unthought known is the heart of the teachings of mindfulness
meditation. The heart of these teachings, which we know already but have forgotten, is that
fundamentally we are awareness itself, already liberated from our fixations, fears and redundancies,
without essential content, beyond subject and object, everything and nothing, and that whatever we are
in life we also are not. This is the “non-dual” consciousness at the heart of so many mystical and
meditative traditions (Wilber, 2003). In other words, the deepest level of the unthought known and the
edge of the unknown, are the same thing.
Translation: Ed does way too many drugs.
for the least they could possibly do
is that what it is? here i was about to take up transcendental meditation, but i think upping my drug consumption would be less of a hassle.
unthought known is my favourite on BS. and I would really love to understand the meaning once in my life
"Dream of dreams of other men..." is exactly the part I am struggling with. I see you discussed that already. I am hardly accepting the fact that Eddie is trying to "promote" the people should think all the same to avoid conflicts. I think people should go their own way in their lives. maybe I am missing something. I need to dig in to the psycho thing outlined above, which I haven`t got time yet to study
To the future generations, we're the past.
"A distant time, a distance space, that's where we're living...
A distant time, a different place, so what you giving?"
What are we giving to the world to shape the future, to help generations to come?
And the whole Unthought Known thing .. someone mentioned collective sentience etc. Perhaps it's like how we're all related in some way or another, because we all share our existence on the timeline of Life in general. We're all in this together, and even our subconscious actions/thoughts will change the future without us even knowing it. I don't know, it's hard to explain heh.
That's what I took from the song anyway.
Btw hi, sup, this is my first post. Great to be one of you
"Dream the dreams of other men, you will be no one's rival." BE LOVE. BE PEACEFUL.
How interesting that so many people are interested in this lyric.
Maybe it simply means have the hope and aspirations of other people and you will become their equal, you will have no enemy..
Sounds like a good trait to have if happen to be president.
here's my latest personal interpretation/application of it...
A lot in this world (and negativity contained therein) seems to grow out of self righteousness, trying to one up/out do someone/something (corporation, country) and doesn't really seemed rooted in that which is "good" or beneficial for us/the earth/the world community....When someone/something/anyone/anything steps out of their confines/tendency to "one up" or "out do" and rather "embrace" (ehhem) the unknown/their fears/the visions/"the dreams" of others, we are able to see from that new point of view.
Even if we dispute the theory or are opposed by value to the core, we have taken the time to respect where this thought/this thing is coming from. It's completely unselfish and giving- you have given your time to understand this dream of another man (and ones dreams are truly intimate to the soul/their being)...
With this approach- you could naturally not have a rival as you would see eye to eye and understand at the true core. Now to think if world leaders incorporated this...
diggin on this thread...
I hope you get this message but your not home...I will be there in just a minute or so...
I want to go but I want to go with you.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. -MT
I've had enough, said enough, felt enough. I'm fine, still in it.
I was hanging outside in the night with my siblings sitting around a fire pit
That was unthought known
I think what is inherent in this unthought known is the lack of energy involved in it, the ability to just zone because in this case there was trust. It is when you feel like you are *home*
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
great interpretations everyone!
I've not spent too much time analysing it yet, I just let myself get swept away by the passion of it.
Just a fantastic song.
I aint gonna lie, at first when i bought the Backspacer album, i kinda skipped this song, but now that i saw them perform this song live, i think this has got to be one of my favorite songs off this album, this song rocks!!!
That post has enlightened me. Thanks.
P.S. I love this song too.
I love this song too, and everyone's posts! I agree with the above quote that when you dream the dreams of other people, you should not feel ashamed or even competitive, but you should be inspired to go further - that you have dreamed as well, that you've added to the collective human dream, that we are evolution in motion. This song to me is sung to a child - the black sky filled with stars and love - blanketing you with gems and rhinestones. Such beautiful imagery! I love the path cut by the moon for you to walk on. You know, it takes a long time to literally see the moon cutting a path - about thirty mins is good. You can have sore eyes too though. In any case, this song is so inspiring how it builds, and gains passion, with the piano and guitar! I'd love to learn to play this whole thing on piano. I don't think one guitar would do it justice. This is my best song on Backspacer, and The End, and Johny Guitar.
I could keep going about this song, but I shouldn't. I love when Eddie repeats himself straight after - like in The End when he says I just wanted to grow old - the second time is to different from the first. In Unthought Known, it's you will be no-one's rival - don't compete, none exist, we all dream and aspire. I believe Unthought Known refers to the ability to recognize your true potential without knowing that that's what it was. You Know your hidden thoughts without thinking. Lastly, another time Ed repeated himself was in No Code when he said in Red Mosquito, "If I had known then what I know now", and then in I'm Open: "If he only knew now what he knew then", so it's like in "you will be no-one's rival" has alternate meanings, that the first utterance is to be inspired by others, and to feel like you don't need to compete, but then to say, it doesn't matter anyway, that you've never had other rivals - you're allowed to dream other dreams if you want, but you will always be YOU, which is beautiful, special, and unique. Hence, I think this is for kids in someways, adults are a little to complex. Our egos are bigger too. This is not to say adults can't enjoy it, but to also ask adults to put themselves in the shoes of youngans. The moon is cutting a path for you, and shore's are waiting! Go out there and make it happen, so what you giving?
Heaps of Love,
Dean.
and got the black t-shirt--awesome!
those t-shirts were too small for my fat ass, but damn i love this song , cant stop playing it.
yeah, it was almost too small for my fat ass as well
yeah, its weird, every night, ive been having dreams, and the background song has always been "unthough known" except like 2 nights ago, for some reason i woke up singing "In Hiding" lol
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
Just MAGICAL !
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
sad and sickening!"
so many great lines in that song.
love the way he belts out rhinestones and rival, and the way the whole song builds up speed and depth.
can't wait to see it live someday!
I noticed the incredible build....
1st verse is vocals and simple guitar
2nd verse adds a "picking chord" guitar
3rd verse adds the drums
4th verse adds the bass or piano
5th verse adds the one that the 4th verse doesn't add
then in the space before the lyrics "nothing left.." add the power chords and then for a little bit there's two distinct pianos.
Then in the final verse or so the build starts again but adds an instrument after each line rather than verse increments.
The art of playing this song successfully would be pulled off by NOT playing for a good bit, but sounds like this would be an incredibly fun song to play for a band!
The chords are F C with a F7 or C7, I forget,
Middle part starts with those chords before "nothing left"--the chords are D,F,C,G repeat
And those lyrics HOLY F. Chills galore, they are all so freakin good.
Look for love and evidence that you're worth keeping!
yeah, the increase in sound and instruments is amazing!
"look for LOVE and evidence"--I knew I got the lyrics wrong before--oh for shame, for shame.
Really incredible responses in this thread...makes me love it even more.
"Lo√e, you know the word
...YOU invented it!" ~ E√
¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤
...::STONE--YOU--OWN!::...
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Nothing there,... Nothing left,...AWESOME!
- Russ McIntosh
<URL=http://www.russmcintosh.com>http://www.russmcintosh.com</URL>