Unthought Known

decides2dream

All the thoughts,... You never see,... You’re always thinking,...
Brain is wired,... Brain is deep,... Oh are you sinking?,...

Feel the path of every day,... Which road you taking?,...
Breathing hard,... & Making hay,... Yeh this is living,...

Look for love & evidence,... That you’re worth keeping,...
Swallowed whole in negatives,... It's so sad & sickening,...

Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky,...
Fill the air up with love,... Black w/starlight,...

Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
For you to walk on,...

Nothing left,... Nothing left,...
Nothing there,... Nothing left,...

See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
See the waves on distant shores,... Awaiting your arrival,...

Dream the dreams of other men,... You’ll be no ones rival,...
Dream the dreams of others then,... You will be no ones rival,...
You will be no ones rival,...

A distant time,... A distant space,... That’s where we’re living —..
A distant time,... A distant place,... So what you giving?,...
What you giving?




this song deserves it's OWN, solo thread......this and just breathe....absolute LOVE here. and once more, what lyrics! just overflowing with amazing imagery and thoughts....

theoceansmademe

Absolutely.

I jsut made a post about this song and the children's book Where the Wild Things Are, it appears have been written just for that book.

decides2dream

theoceansmademe wrote:

Absolutely.

I jsut made a post about this song and the children's book Where the Wild Things Are, it appears have been written just for that book.

i saw that right after i posted this.....the book title as a thread title did not make me think of the connection, but i enjoyed your thoughts!



and one more thing.......i CAN'T WAIT to hear this LIVE!!! :shock:
to hear ed belt out certain lyrics with such emotion....OMG......cannot wait!


oh, and this probably should be here too:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/art ... le1290301/

Unthought Known

Culled from a book, a talk with an actress, and one late night.

“It's about a conversation with Catherine Keener, and a book – I think it might have even been called Unthought Known . I got back late to my hotel in New York, and I pushed it that extra hour. I pushed the limits of how much you can drink and smoke, and this song came out of it. I think the thought of the song is that there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

cuddlebug

decides2dream wrote:

this song deserves it's OWN, solo thread......this and just breathe....absolute LOVE here. and once more, what lyrics! just overflowing with amazing imagery and thoughts....

I am 100% in agreement. These are my two absolute favorite songs on this album.

DeLukin

Awesome song. My current BS favorite.

decides2dream

cuddlebug wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

this song deserves it's OWN, solo thread......this and just breathe....absolute LOVE here. and once more, what lyrics! just overflowing with amazing imagery and thoughts....

I am 100% in agreement. These are my two absolute favorite songs on this album.

seriously.
i've said it before but i really think there are 2 different albums going on here. that is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is something that i personally notice. i guess pj will never cease to amaze me.....to have a song like johnny guitar and then one like unthought known....is bizarrely amazing to me! not a fan of johnny....but unthought.......it gets better and better for me, if that is even possible?


btw - how does everyone feel about the strings, pinao and such? i am on the fence about it all....and just ever curious of others' thoughts.....

troubled_soul

decides2dream wrote:

btw - how does everyone feel about the strings, pinao and such? i am on the fence about it all....and just ever curious of others' thoughts.....

I think the strings an piano are placed in just the right spots so they work. They add to the building crescendo, along with the incredible drumming on the song.

Definitely my favorite song on the album. Can't stop looping it over and over!

CorduroyGal

The first time I heard the entire album I cried during Unthought Known (as well as through the entire album- it felt the cd was actually written for me- it's such a beautiful song. I agree that Eddie and the band have struck so many notes that were absolutely perfect and full of life :P

scoob1057

This is the OFF He Goes of this album for me

decides2dream

troubled_soul wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

btw - how does everyone feel about the strings, pinao and such? i am on the fence about it all....and just ever curious of others' thoughts.....

I think the strings an piano are placed in just the right spots so they work. They add to the building crescendo, along with the incredible drumming on the song.

Definitely my favorite song on the album. Can't stop looping it over and over!

i agree. they are in the right spots, they do work...but i still don't know if i truly 'like' them. :P
this song really stays with me, in my head. i love that.

stuckinline

i thought this song could be almost a song to a child from their parent. basically saying the whole world is out there for them, good and bad but, it's up to the child what they will do/be in the world. just my 2 cents. oh, i love this song!

All the thoughts,... You never see,... You’re always thinking,...
Brain is wired,... Brain is deep,... Oh are you sinking?,...

Feel the path of every day,... Which road you taking?,...
Breathing hard,... & Making hay,... Yeh this is living,...

Look for love & evidence,... That you’re worth keeping,...
Swallowed whole in negatives,... It's so sad & sickening,...

Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky,...
Fill the air up with love,... Black w/starlight,...

Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
For you to walk on,...

(the whole world is their's for the taking)

Nothing left,... Nothing left,...
Nothing there,... Nothing left,...

See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
See the waves on distant shores,... Awaiting your arrival,...

Dream the dreams of other men,... You’ll be no ones rival,...
Dream the dreams of others then,... You will be no ones rival,...
You will be no ones rival,...

(the chid will study other people in school, but they can become whatever they want)

A distant time,... A distant space,... That’s where we’re living —..
A distant time,... A distant place,... So what you giving?,...
What you giving?

(the parent asking the child what he/she will do in the world, what are you giving?)

decides2dream

stuckinline wrote:

i thought this song could be almost a lullaby to a child from their parent. basically saying the whole world is out there for them, good and bad but, it's up to the child what they will do/be in the world. just my 2 cents. oh, i love this song!


(the parent asking the child what he/she will do in the world, what are you giving?)

that really is a beautiful thought/intrepretation!

Ms. Haiku

Just going by the lyrics here, it seems like a sad song.

This is positive:

Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky,...
Fill the air up with love,... Black w/starlight,...

Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
For you to walk on,...

But the rest is more like what Jeff Ament, the loner on the inside, is always writing about.

The use of the word rival is interesting. (Binarual again? Do I have the ghost of albums past correct?) Rival implies a challenge, and not necessarily positive. Would you say to someone you love you will be no ones rival or would you say to someone you don't want to see again, you will be no ones rival as in go away and live a life that doesn't affect anyone?

slightofjeff

I love that this thread is here. This has become my favorite song on the album, but I'm not really sure what it means.

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

But what does that mean? Could somebody give me an example? And even so, what does that have to do with the song, which to me sounds (as someone else mentioned) like the advice a parent might give to a child before ushering them out of the nest and into the world?

"Dream the dreams of other men; you will be no one's rival."

I love that line, even as I struggle with the meaning. It sounds like an imperative, with the outcome of "being no one's rival" being positive. But is it?

I have a lot of questions about this song. I hope this thread keeps going, because then maybe we'll stumble upon some answers.

Ms. Haiku

slightofjeff wrote:

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

Aha! an example of an unknown thought is our individual interpretations of the song that tie our experiences together like spokes to a wheel, but that we couldn't have known would tie our experiences together unless we heard the song. It has an element of predetermined destiny, doesn't it?

Wow! I amaze myself.

slightofjeff

Ms. Haiku wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

Aha! an example of an unknown thought is our individual interpretations of the song that tie our experiences together like spokes to a wheel, but that we couldn't have known would tie our experiences together unless we heard the song. It has an element of predetermined destiny, doesn't it?

Wow! I amaze myself.

Maybe kind of like a collective unconscious sort of thing. There are things everyone knows without actually knowing them. Or something.

decides2dream

slightofjeff wrote:

Ms. Haiku wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

Aha! an example of an unknown thought is our individual interpretations of the song that tie our experiences together like spokes to a wheel, but that we couldn't have known would tie our experiences together unless we heard the song. It has an element of predetermined destiny, doesn't it?

Wow! I amaze myself.

Maybe kind of like a collective unconscious sort of thing. There are things everyone knows without actually knowing them. Or something.

ms. haiku, well done.
see jeff, i saw you in some other thread on some other song, tell them they were being too specific/narrow in their individual interpretation of the song. but again, whatever ed meant, OUR interpretations...are our OWN. we own them, and there is no wrong in your own reaction to art. so there are myriad interpretations that can be gleaned from a song, and sure...some may be 'right' in regards to the artist's initial intention, but given what art is about....still doesn't make another thought on it 'wrong.'


as to your last statement, isn't that exactly what ed said in desciribing it all? damn near close to it in any case. definitely a very cool thought to ponder tho.....

decides2dream

slightofjeff wrote:

I love that this thread is here. This has become my favorite song on the album, but I'm not really sure what it means.

I know the term "Unthought Known" is actually a psychology term, pretty much meaning what Ed describes in the Toronto interview: "there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them.”

But what does that mean? Could somebody give me an example? And even so, what does that have to do with the song, which to me sounds (as someone else mentioned) like the advice a parent might give to a child before ushering them out of the nest and into the world?

"Dream the dreams of other men; you will be no one's rival."

I love that line, even as I struggle with the meaning. It sounds like an imperative, with the outcome of "being no one's rival" being positive. But is it?

I have a lot of questions about this song. I hope this thread keeps going, because then maybe we'll stumble upon some answers.

btw - i don't think there ARe *answers* per se, just reactions, thoughts and feelings. answers suggest something 'right'....a real conclusion, and i think even ed would have a hard time with that.


didn't ed also mention it was borne out of a very late night convo with catherine keener? so yea, i can just imagine...discussing this book he mentions.....spurring other, related and unrelated, convo from there....spurring on additional thoughts....add in drinks....nicotine...late hours....the glow/buzz from said intoxicants, great conversation....and yea...i just don't foresee *answers*......just more questions. probably why i love this tune, and so much of what ed writes.....

decides2dream

Ms. Haiku wrote:

Just going by the lyrics here, it seems like a sad song.

This is positive:

Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky,...
Fill the air up with love,... Black w/starlight,...

Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
For you to walk on,...

But the rest is more like what Jeff Ament, the loner on the inside, is always writing about.

The use of the word rival is interesting. (Binarual again? Do I have the ghost of albums past correct?) Rival implies a challenge, and not necessarily positive. Would you say to someone you love you will be no ones rival or would you say to someone you don't want to see again, you will be no ones rival as in go away and live a life that doesn't affect anyone?

as to the rival question...it could be positive, or negative....either.
on the porch within another lyric discussion, two possibilities arose:

dream the dream of other men, you'll be no one's rival


meaning, dream the dream of others...understand them, sympathise/empathize....anf therefore you'll be no one's rival, no one's enemy.....sounds rather positive

another thought....

if you dream the same dream as other men, you are not distinguishing yourself, you are being just like everyone else...you will not be anyone's rival, b/c you'll be the same, not stand out, unworthy of challenge.....sounds negative, but also can be positive, to spur you on TO think your own thoughts, have your own dreams...


for me, within the context of the positivity i feel within the rest of the lyrics, and delivery of the lyrics....i think it's all positive. that's what i *feel* from the words and music. but again, that's just me.

gawd...i love this shit.
thank you all for these awesome discussions...and thank you pearl jam, as ever.

Ms. Haiku

Alright, who else keeps accidentally writing Unknown Thought instead of Unthought known?

*blush* :P

justam

I love the sound of this song. I love the way it grows more and more excited as it goes on.

However, I am a bit confused by the line that everyone else is confused by: "Dream the dreams of other men and you will be no one's rival." I'm just not really sure what that's supposed to mean!

theoceansmademe

decides2dream wrote:

Ms. Haiku wrote:

Just going by the lyrics here, it seems like a sad song.

This is positive:

Feel the air up above,... A pool of blue sky,...
Fill the air up with love,... Black w/starlight,...

Feel the sky blanket you,... w/gems & rhinestones,...
See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
For you to walk on,...

But the rest is more like what Jeff Ament, the loner on the inside, is always writing about.

The use of the word rival is interesting. (Binarual again? Do I have the ghost of albums past correct?) Rival implies a challenge, and not necessarily positive. Would you say to someone you love you will be no ones rival or would you say to someone you don't want to see again, you will be no ones rival as in go away and live a life that doesn't affect anyone?

as to the rival question...it could be positive, or negative....either.
on the porch within another lyric discussion, two possibilities arose:

dream the dream of other men, you'll be no one's rival


meaning, dream the dream of others...understand them, sympathise/empathize....anf therefore you'll be no one's rival, no one's enemy.....sounds rather positive

another thought....

if you dream the same dream as other men, you are not distinguishing yourself, you are being just like everyone else...you will not be anyone's rival, b/c you'll be the same, not stand out, unworthy of challenge.....sounds negative, but also can be positive, to spur you on TO think your own thoughts, have your own dreams...


for me, within the context of the positivity i feel within the rest of the lyrics, and delivery of the lyrics....i think it's all positive. that's what i *feel* from the words and music. but again, that's just me.

gawd...i love this shit.
thank you all for these awesome discussions...and thank you pearl jam, as ever.

I am with you on the postive side of this thought. I say this because of the lyrics before dream anothers dream,

See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
See the waves on distant shores,... Awaiting your arrival,...

To me this means you need to look at other cultures and attempt to see things as they do. If we all can have the same dream, say of peace then this planent would be a much better place.

But religion has gotten in the way, in my mind, and much of what EV has written.

He ends this song by stating:A distant time,... A distant space,... That’s where we’re living —..
A distant time,... A distant place,... So what you giving?,...
What you giving?

I see this as another planet with life on it or just referring to our time right now on this one as one of many places with life. Whether this is an after life or not is beyond my thinking.

But clearly a positive ending in what are you giving. We need to give to get.

Cool song.

decides2dream

theoceansmademe wrote:

I am with you on the postive side of this thought. I say this because of the lyrics before dream anothers dream,

See the path cut by the moon,... For you to walk on,...
See the waves on distant shores,... Awaiting your arrival,...

To me this means you need to look at other cultures and attempt to see things as they do. If we all can have the same dream, say of peace then this planent would be a much better place.

But religion has gotten in the way, in my mind, and much of what EV has written.

He ends this song by stating:A distant time,... A distant space,... That’s where we’re living —..
A distant time,... A distant place,... So what you giving?,...
What you giving?

I see this as another planet with life on it or just referring to our time right now on this one as one of many places with life. Whether this is an after life or not is beyond my thinking.

But clearly a positive ending in what are you giving. We need to give to get.

Cool song.

beautiful thoughts......


and even amongst the idea of 'challenge' to dream differently from others, to think above, to be bold/different/set your own path.....the idea of distant shores awaiting you, the moon cutting a path for you......still all makes sense.

two roads diverged by a yellow wood...
i took the road less travelled and that has made all the difference



so yea....be YOU, be genuine....be your amazing self....and hell yes...give BACK.



oooo...and ya know what else? relating this all to the ideas of the 'unthought known' theories.....it all FITS too! the idea of the collective thought, then your own thoughts....that back and forth, hell yes.....both simultaneously. shit, i have not had even the tiniest bit of any controlled substances today, honest....i'm at my cube at work! hahahaha.


you people ROCK.

btw - can you imagine ed (sure, maybe chuckling at our attempts )...but just SEEING people so getting off on your words, dissecting, relating......man, what a great mind fuck. and sure, he sees it, in motion, when he plays live...but i do think this place is another layer to it....

slightofjeff

oooo...and ya know what else? relating this all to the ideas of the 'unthought known' theories.....it all FITS too! the idea of the collective thought, then your own thoughts....that back and forth, hell yes.....both simultaneously. shit, i have not had even the tiniest bit of any controlled substances today, honest....i'm at my cube at work! hahahaha.

Whoa. That just clicked. "Dream the dreams of other men" = the unthought known; the collective unconscious. We all have the some of the same thoughts inside of us, ingrained in the DNA of all humans.

Now if I could only reconcile the "no one's rival" thing.

oona left

slightofjeff wrote:

oooo...and ya know what else? relating this all to the ideas of the 'unthought known' theories.....it all FITS too! the idea of the collective thought, then your own thoughts....that back and forth, hell yes.....both simultaneously. shit, i have not had even the tiniest bit of any controlled substances today, honest....i'm at my cube at work! hahahaha.

Whoa. That just clicked. "Dream the dreams of other men" = the unthought known; the collective unconscious. We all have the some of the same thoughts inside of us, ingrained in the DNA of all humans.

Now if I could only reconcile the "no one's rival" thing.

I like where this is going.

"You'll be no one's rival" could be (could be) encouragement to treat each other with respect, to shed our conditioned tendency to fight, to war, to oppress, et cetera.

Maybe, at our core, before the constraints of our individual reality tunnels were put in place, we were capable of living without the need to have an enemy. We have the knowledge to live that way again, we just need to access it?

Backspacer 76

Best song on Backspacer.
Absolutely love it.

BhagavadGita

Unthought Known, that phrase, brings to my mind telepathy. Don't know why.

The song feels like a conversation between a very sad person with a person who is trying to help show them the beauty in life and for some reason this person can't hear the message due to a sick negativity.

He is trying to listen with his mind, but he is always thinking. Maybe it's about bi polar disorder. A friend worries about the mental health of a friend. A hopeless character says nothing left.

Maybe there was a real dream he had over and over and now that dream has died.

What is left is heaven. Another life on another deminsion.

Reminds me a bit of Off He Goes, don't know why I said that. It also reminds me of Father and Son by Cat Stevens. But then again, I'm out of my mind in love with this song.

cookies

I like this tune it kind of goes with my avatar ... I see a person looking at the crossraods and not to sure which one to take. And he saying take the one that will lead you to your dreams. The other paths you would be on one rival and there is nothing left to dream for....In other words go for your dreams.....

PeArLgOoNeR

Brilliant thought on this song, people! I really had a hard time with the Dream the Dreams part before this.. Now it kinda makes sense

Such a beautiful picture painted with words!

Ms. Haiku

I just want to put it out there that with the incredibly uplifting music, it's hard to think of Rival as a negative. Maybe if we all recognize the same thing by looking at the same thing then we can't outdo each other.

This will be an awesome running song.

dimitrispearljam

oh..a thread for the best song of Backspacer,,cool