Townhalls Gone Wild - the DVD

The narrator sounds like the guy from Zeitgeist.

It's about time people started flipping out on their elected officials. You might argue that it's for the wrong reasons, but it has to start somewhere.

inmytree wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

The narrator sounds like the guy from Zeitgeist.

It's about time people started flipping out on their elected officials. You might argue that it's for the wrong reasons, but it has to start somewhere.

I'll argue the yelling and screaming in a public forum is not appropriate at all...also, I find it amusing that those doing the yelling are often users of Medicare or will soon be users of Medicare...perhaps that terrible program should be eliminated...

Sometimes it takes yelling to be heard, especially if you've tried making your point as civilly as possible, and have been ignored repeatedly. At some point, you have to turn the heat up. I don't think it's inappropriate at all if you've exhausted "quieter" means of trying to reach out to your officials.

What's not appropriate is voting in favor of laws that most of these people didn't even read-- I consider that treason, which used to be punishable by death (maybe it still is?). I'm not pushing for this at all, but I think it's healthy if our elected officials feel some actual pressure from the people they are supposed to govern.

inmytree wrote:

I see...I guess I'm going to march into my bosses office and start yelling the next time I fell "my voice is not being heard"...

Honestly, I really don't understand the pure hatred of the gov't...I really don't get it...so some idiots don't think there voice is being heard...here's newsflash...the world doesn't revolve around them...

I guess you define "pressure" as "yelling incoherently in a public forum"...

hoooray for mob rule, I'm sure the founders would be proud... :(

Well, for one thing I can see why we don't see eye to eye (except for who we think is a damn fine rock band ). Your boss / employee relationship example is completely out of whack. Public officials are literally our employees, we pay them to serve us. It is completely within our right to let them know what we think, and if they aren't listening, or are straight robbing us blind, or taking our rights away, we might just have to turn up the volume. You've just put them in the boss position and us as their workers. This isn't so.

Pressure isn't explicitly defined as "yelling incoherently in a public forum" in my definition-- but we do have to keep a tight reign on our government, as all government seeks to grow like a virus. Why? Because it's authority that is easily manipulated by special interests, (often times these special interest have a seemingly positive purpose). It's the biggest gun there is, and the only way to stop it is to not give certain people access to the trigger. It is an amoral entity-- it's not necessarily good or bad, it's simply something that unconsciously grows if it remains unchecked. This growth isn't necessarily making our lives any easier. Maybe it does in a few cases, but certainly not all of them. When it does make things easier, it's most likely at the state or local levels where you actually have greater control of the government.

I think you take it personally when I rage against government because you are, or have been a government employee. I'm not 100% anti-government... I'm 100% against a strong central government when it is quite clear in the Constitution that the states are supposed to be quite sovereign. If the states had any sense, they'd pass this sovereignty right on down to counties, cities, and towns. With this comes true freedom to live how you want, as somewhere out there is a geographical location where like-minded people can choose just how much their government does for them. Everyone's fundamental rights still protected under the Constitution, and states have no rights to trump any of those.

Simply stated, it is better for people at the most local levels to rule themselves-- it's the most manageable way of doing things. That way, inmytree can still live in a town / city where you have closer watch over the government officials providing him or her with healthcare, and other services that you honestly believe the government can provide efficiently, and I can live in a place where I can use my earnings to provide the services that I want as I see fit.

There is more freedom of choice in the system that myself (and the founders) advocated. In a strong central government system, you may get things your way, but I certainly don't get them mine. I don't want to deprive you of what you think is best for you. Plain and simple. When what's best for you hurts me, then I do have a problem.

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from.

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Sometimes it takes yelling to be heard, especially if you've tried making your point as civilly as possible, and have been ignored repeatedly. At some point, you have to turn the heat up. I don't think it's inappropriate at all if you've exhausted "quieter" means of trying to reach out to your officials.

unfortunately, stupid people with loud voices have NEVER solved anything.

g under p wrote:

Believe it or not it's very difficult to be heard when one is screaming at the top of their voice. Settle down and speak rationally, you'll be heard.

Peace

Too bad these folks don't have the capability to speak rationally. :roll:

inmytree wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

inmytree wrote:

I see...I guess I'm going to march into my bosses office and start yelling the next time I fell "my voice is not being heard"...

Honestly, I really don't understand the pure hatred of the gov't...I really don't get it...so some idiots don't think there voice is being heard...here's newsflash...the world doesn't revolve around them...

I guess you define "pressure" as "yelling incoherently in a public forum"...

hoooray for mob rule, I'm sure the founders would be proud... :(

Well, for one thing I can see why we don't see eye to eye (except for who we think is a damn fine rock band ). Your boss / employee relationship example is completely out of whack. Public officials are literally our employees, we pay them to serve us. It is completely within our right to let them know what we think, and if they aren't listening, or are straight robbing us blind, or taking our rights away, we might just have to turn up the volume. You've just put them in the boss position and us as their workers. This isn't so.

Pressure isn't explicitly defined as "yelling incoherently in a public forum" in my definition-- but we do have to keep a tight reign on our government, as all government seeks to grow like a virus. Why? Because it's authority that is easily manipulated by special interests, (often times these special interest have a seemingly positive purpose). It's the biggest gun there is, and the only way to stop it is to not give certain people access to the trigger. It is an amoral entity-- it's not necessarily good or bad, it's simply something that unconsciously grows if it remains unchecked. This growth isn't necessarily making our lives any easier. Maybe it does in a few cases, but certainly not all of them. When it does make things easier, it's most likely at the state or local levels where you actually have greater control of the government.

I think you take it personally when I rage against government because you are, or have been a government employee. I'm not 100% anti-government... I'm 100% against a strong central government when it is quite clear in the Constitution that the states are supposed to be quite sovereign. If the states had any sense, they'd pass this sovereignty right on down to counties, cities, and towns. With this comes true freedom to live how you want, as somewhere out there is a geographical location where like-minded people can choose just how much their government does for them. Everyone's fundamental rights still protected under the Constitution, and states have no rights to trump any of those.

Simply stated, it is better for people at the most local levels to rule themselves-- it's the most manageable way of doing things. That way, inmytree can still live in a town / city where you have closer watch over the government officials providing him or her with healthcare, and other services that you honestly believe the government can provide efficiently, and I can live in a place where I can use my earnings to provide the services that I want as I see fit.

There is more freedom of choice in the system that myself (and the founders) advocated. In a strong central government system, you may get things your way, but I certainly don't get them mine. I don't want to deprive you of what you think is best for you. Plain and simple. When what's best for you hurts me, then I do have a problem.

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from.

first off, I don't our conversations personally, my friend... I was just making an general comment that I really don't understand the hatred in general....and I really don't...and as I said, many of these angry mob folks look to be medicare age...those damn socialist bastards are sucking up tax dollars...I hope they're yelling at themselves in the mirror...

and yes, you're right, my example about yelling at my boss is incorrect...I should have said, "I should be ok when my employer yells and screams at me when they think I'm not doing my job correctly"...

as for you concerns about a central gov't...I think their needs to be an end point...what I mean is, let's cities and towns are able to create laws without oversight from a central gov't...the town next to mine decides Maroon Vans are a nuisance and drivers of such rabble rousing mobiles are to be arrested and sent to prison...without oversight of a central gov't. this could happen...I know it's an extreme example, but...

also, you mention "special interests"...how are these special interests funded...? not by the dirty no good gov't...

anyway, I really think these mobs are just plain wrong, just like those code pink folks...there is a time and place, and a right way to do things....shouting and yelling profanity in a public forum is not the right way to get one's message across...imo...

I definitely don't want your boss yelling at you, because chances are although you can mess up, you're probably not ruining your boss' livelihood by actively stealing from your him or her, like our Congress does. When you're the boss, and you've tried handling things in a civil manner (and it really isn't working) and your employees are nothing short of absolute criminals, you've got to get angry, profane, whatever it takes before you resort to violence. Class action lawsuits have been filed against our government to redress our grievances, and they are almost always thrown out. I'm not even talking about this birther thing here-- I'm talking about other concerns. I guess what I'm aking is, no matter what you think of these particular people, don't you think there comes a point, sometime after trying calmer methods of trying to get our leaders to listen to us, and before bloody revolution, that a "mob" of people have to remind our elected officials of exactly what their job is, even if there's some volume and a few choice words involved? Or do you just want to skip it and start the revolution?

Obviously, there is a central government in the scenario I described as the America I'd like to live in. The fact of the matter is, they'd be very hands off. Maroon Van Gestapo forces would be illegal in that society as they are right now. Why do people always think that more freedom would inevitably lead to this kind of tyranny? Doesn't anyone else think that the more rules we create ultimately leads to MORE contempt for the law?

inmytree wrote:

also, you mention "special interests"...how are these special interests funded...? not by the dirty no good gov't...

To me, this is like asking what came first, the chicken or the egg? In some ways, yes, it is funded by the no good dirty government. Take the Federal Reserve for an example-- Special Interests effectively became the government, because government took a complacent role in letting it happen. Who's to blame there? Both of them-- who do you blame first? It doesn't even matter because you're just so screwed either way, why even argue the point? Years later, the same financial institutions are being bailed out by our government-- the same financial institutions that fund campaigns to put their friends in office, and allow these sort of programs to happen. After all, where is the anti-trust law against the Federal Reserve note being the monopoly currency in this country? Round and round we go. The government, when given the power, legislates all these special regulations that actually allow the special interests to play outside of the rules of basic natural law-- such as monetizing debt, fractional reserves, etc... But it's cool-- we can just appoint a few CZARS with some CEO experience, or create a few agencies headed by former bigwigs at these companies to make sure everything is in check, and well-policed!

I wish this was an actual effective approach, after all, this is EXACTLY what this country has been doing the past however many years-- it clearly doesn't work, and can't for obvious reasons. It is the perfect merger of authority and the greed that uses the authority.

The bigger government gets, the more inherently corruptible it gets. The bigger companies get, the more greater the chances of them becoming the corruptor. Maybe this is where people from your school and my school differ. I think we can both agree that it is unhealthy for either the government or corporations to control our lives (at least I hope so). I say keep the government's power limited and restricted in its role, so it cannot actually legislate corporations into positions of power by outlawing competition. I'm guessing that you believe it's better to create greater restrictions on how corporations through better watchdogs in positions of authority?

and speaking of townhalls gone wild, i was just wondering how long will it be before we have our first townhall shooting?

prfctlefts wrote:

In St.Louis 6 SEIU members were arrested on assault charges. According to the police they showed up toward the end of the forum held by D. Rep Russ Carnahan. One african american who was passing out "Don't Tread On Me" buttons and flags said he was attacked verbally and physically by some of the individuals that were arrested. So it looks like Obama is sending out his goons to rough people up that speak out against his health care program. and let's not forget the Obama white house is encouraging people to send names and their email addresses of the people who disagree with them.

i live in st louis so that story is all i have been hearing about. please include a source about "obama sending his goons to rough people up that speak out against his health care program. and let's not forget the Obama white house is encouraging people to send names and their email addresses of the people who disagree with them" because NOT ONE news report i have read in the papers or seen on tv (which they have a story on every news cast about this) has said anything about the part you wrote. i would just like to see where you are getting your information about this, or are you making it up?

the truth is that the GOP is telling people to go and disrupt these meetings and the supporters are getting angry that nothing can be discussed in a civil manner so they are going to counter protest and things boil over. if the GOP would stop encouraging such childish behavior then this situation would die down.

arthurdent wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

So it looks like Obama is sending out his goons to rough people up that speak out against his health care program. and let's not forget the Obama white house is encouraging people to send names and their email addresses of the people who disagree with them.

When did ignorance become a legitimate POV???

i am guessing it became legitimate at about the same time that ignorance and arrogance became a viable foreign policy strategy....

prfctlefts wrote:

and as soon as I can find a link to the whitehouse about them wanting peoples names and email adresses I promise I will post it. Im not some damn loon who would just make this shit up.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/07/white-house-collect-fishy-info-health-reform-illegal-critics-say/

Fox news. What a surprise. :roll: . Don't you understand that no ones information on the internet is private. If they wanted our information they could get it without someone sending them our email addresses. Nothing on the internet is private and if you believe that you are a fool. I bombarded the obama campaign with things i wanted clarification on before, during and after the election. Guess what? I'm still here. They havent come for me yet :roll:.

Get a grip.