Medical Bankruptcies in the USA

decides2dream · July 2009

know1 wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

to stay on topic 62.1% of the bankruptcies we are discussing were due to medical bills

The only way that could be true is if medical bills were the ONLY bills the person has.

For example, if a person is scraping by - means not bankrupt - with a couple of cars they are making payments on, a bunch of credit card debt and a house payment that's too high for their income and they suddenly have a serious medical condition and decide to file for bankruptcy because they can't afford the medical bills (ON TOP OF THEIR OTHER BILLS), then is it REALLY DUE to medical bills?

i know you like to think *everyone* except for you of course, is up their eyeballs in debt and doesn't handle their $$$ well. yes, obviously, there ARe a LOT of people like that. however, there ALSO are people who DO live within their means - such as yourself, and sorry...you're not alone there - have no real debt outside of say a mortgage, save for a rainy day and all that.....and yet, medical bills can easily bankrupt them. we all know how prohibitively expensive medical procedures and treatments can be. honestly. so yes, while it is true what you say, it is also not the only scenario. also figure in those who 'scrape by'.....live within their meager means, but their means are meager....thus not much, if any to save....couple that with perhaps not having health insurance....and it is EASY to see this problem. does one really need to lose EVERYTHING they worked so hard for, saved for th future, etc......for healthcare? there HAS to be a better way. our system is far too dependent on where and who you work for, rather than simply a system that makes sure we all are covered.

know1 · July 2009

decides2dream wrote:

know1 wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

to stay on topic 62.1% of the bankruptcies we are discussing were due to medical bills

The only way that could be true is if medical bills were the ONLY bills the person has.

For example, if a person is scraping by - means not bankrupt - with a couple of cars they are making payments on, a bunch of credit card debt and a house payment that's too high for their income and they suddenly have a serious medical condition and decide to file for bankruptcy because they can't afford the medical bills (ON TOP OF THEIR OTHER BILLS), then is it REALLY DUE to medical bills?

i know you like to think *everyone* except for you of course, is up their eyeballs in debt and doesn't handle their $$$ well. yes, obviously, there ARe a LOT of people like that. however, there ALSO are people who DO live within their means - such as yourself, and sorry...you're not alone there - have no real debt outside of say a mortgage, save for a rainy day and all that.....and yet, medical bills can easily bankrupt them. we all know how prohibitively expensive medical procedures and treatments can be. honestly. so yes, while it is true what you say, it is also not the only scenario. also figure in those who 'scrape by'.....live within their meager means, but their means are meager....thus not much, if any to save....couple that with perhaps not having health insurance....and it is EASY to see this problem. does one really need to lose EVERYTHING they worked so hard for, saved for th future, etc......for healthcare? there HAS to be a better way. our system is far too dependent on where and who you work for, rather than simply a system that makes sure we all are covered.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. The point is - and I stated it right up front - you can't say that a bankruptcy was due just to a medical debt when there are literally hundreds of factors at play in people's lives that contributed to it. Whatever their personal scenario happens to be, it cannot be that a single thing caused their bankruptcy.

Gern Blansten · July 2009

of course it could....that's the topic of this thread....that medical costs force thousands of bankruptcies

do you deny that?

_ · July 2009

know1 wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

to stay on topic 62.1% of the bankruptcies we are discussing were due to medical bills

The only way that could be true is if medical bills were the ONLY bills the person has.

So, let me get this straight.... You're saying that even if I'm a millionaire who lives within my means, as long as I have bills (doesn't EVERYONE have bills?), then even a billion dollar medical bill couldn't be blamed if I have to declare bankruptcy? Like maybe it's that $100/month cell phone bill that REALLY did me in?

soulsinging · July 2009

know1 wrote:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. The point is - and I stated it right up front - you can't say that a bankruptcy was due just to a medical debt when there are literally hundreds of factors at play in people's lives that contributed to it. Whatever their personal scenario happens to be, it cannot be that a single thing caused their bankruptcy.

Sounds a bit disingenuousness to me. If you're humming along, finances are good, life is going smooth, then you get cancer and a $150k medical bill and file for bankruptcy... how can you possibly say the illness and health costs did not cause that bankruptcy? Who has a couple hundred thousand dollars stockpiled for a rainy day that isn't in the top 2-3% of earners in this country? We should all live like Buddhist monks just to ensure that if we ever get sick, we have the finances covered?

Gern Blansten · July 2009

soulsinging wrote:

know1 wrote:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. The point is - and I stated it right up front - you can't say that a bankruptcy was due just to a medical debt when there are literally hundreds of factors at play in people's lives that contributed to it. Whatever their personal scenario happens to be, it cannot be that a single thing caused their bankruptcy.

Sounds a bit disingenuousness to me. If you're humming along, finances are good, life is going smooth, then you get cancer and a $150k medical bill and file for bankruptcy... how can you possibly say the illness and health costs did not cause that bankruptcy? Who has a couple hundred thousand dollars stockpiled for a rainy day that isn't in the top 2-3% of earners in this country? We should all live like Buddhist monks just to ensure that if we ever get sick, we have the finances covered?

exactly....

These people fail to think out of the box....they have this Rush Limbaugh inspired attitude that we are all on our own (or should be)....they don't see the big picture

decides2dream · July 2009

know1 wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

know1 wrote:

The only way that could be true is if medical bills were the ONLY bills the person has.

For example, if a person is scraping by - means not bankrupt - with a couple of cars they are making payments on, a bunch of credit card debt and a house payment that's too high for their income and they suddenly have a serious medical condition and decide to file for bankruptcy because they can't afford the medical bills (ON TOP OF THEIR OTHER BILLS), then is it REALLY DUE to medical bills?

i know you like to think *everyone* except for you of course, is up their eyeballs in debt and doesn't handle their $$$ well. yes, obviously, there ARe a LOT of people like that. however, there ALSO are people who DO live within their means - such as yourself, and sorry...you're not alone there - have no real debt outside of say a mortgage, save for a rainy day and all that.....and yet, medical bills can easily bankrupt them. we all know how prohibitively expensive medical procedures and treatments can be. honestly. so yes, while it is true what you say, it is also not the only scenario. also figure in those who 'scrape by'.....live within their meager means, but their means are meager....thus not much, if any to save....couple that with perhaps not having health insurance....and it is EASY to see this problem. does one really need to lose EVERYTHING they worked so hard for, saved for th future, etc......for healthcare? there HAS to be a better way. our system is far too dependent on where and who you work for, rather than simply a system that makes sure we all are covered.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. The point is - and I stated it right up front - you can't say that a bankruptcy was due just to a medical debt when there are literally hundreds of factors at play in people's lives that contributed to it. Whatever their personal scenario happens to be, it cannot be that a single thing caused their bankruptcy.

and you simply refuse to live in reality on this topic. of course everyone has other factors...one has to pya their bills and live too. THAT is the whole point. someone is living their life, paying their bills, providing for their family, hopefully saving for the future....being responsibile for themselves....and then, BAM! massive medical emeregency.....tons of medical bills....the average person - even WITH savings - cannot pay for it all. massive debt from it, danger of losing their home, everything they worked for, saved for, etc....for healthcare!? i sincerely hope it never happens to you know1....b/c you would see, even with all your savings and smart financial decisions, you too could well be faced with losing everything simply to pay for your cancer tretments, extensive hospital stays, prescription drugs, etc.

you seem to be the one not seeing the forest for the trees.

whenever someone files for bankruptcy there is a *reason*...an overlying reason why they could afford their life, and now can't afford their life. and this discussion is about how over 60% of bankrupcies today are now b/c of medical expenses.

blackredyellow · July 2009

soulsinging wrote:

know1 wrote:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. The point is - and I stated it right up front - you can't say that a bankruptcy was due just to a medical debt when there are literally hundreds of factors at play in people's lives that contributed to it. Whatever their personal scenario happens to be, it cannot be that a single thing caused their bankruptcy.

Sounds a bit disingenuousness to me. If you're humming along, finances are good, life is going smooth, then you get cancer and a $150k medical bill and file for bankruptcy... how can you possibly say the illness and health costs did not cause that bankruptcy? Who has a couple hundred thousand dollars stockpiled for a rainy day that isn't in the top 2-3% of earners in this country? We should all live like Buddhist monks just to ensure that if we ever get sick, we have the finances covered?

Yeah.... And don't forget younger people... When I was in my early 20's working my first real full time job with health insurance, I hurt my shoulder. Luckily it was just separated and there was no damage, but what young adult could have afforded the ER vist, x-rays, pain meds, the follow up visit with an orthopedic doctor and MRI without insurance? Imagine if I needed surgery? I would have either been bankrupt, or paying off medical bills my entire life.

decides2dream · July 2009

soulsinging wrote:

know1 wrote:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. The point is - and I stated it right up front - you can't say that a bankruptcy was due just to a medical debt when there are literally hundreds of factors at play in people's lives that contributed to it. Whatever their personal scenario happens to be, it cannot be that a single thing caused their bankruptcy.

Sounds a bit disingenuousness to me. If you're humming along, finances are good, life is going smooth, then you get cancer and a $150k medical bill and file for bankruptcy... how can you possibly say the illness and health costs did not cause that bankruptcy? Who has a couple hundred thousand dollars stockpiled for a rainy day that isn't in the top 2-3% of earners in this country? We should all live like Buddhist monks just to ensure that if we ever get sick, we have the finances covered?

and even beyond that....say you ARE fortunate in that yes, you can tap your home equity, or your retirement savings, or sure....you even DID save enough that you can cover it....is THAT a the system of 'healthcare' we want for us all? how does it even make sense? seriously? even amongst those who do 'everything right'.....save their money, live a healthy lifestyle.....still get stricken with life-threatening and expensive diseases......and run the risk of losing EVERYthing....their lives, and all they worked for. is THAT the system we want? i sure as shit don't.

Gern Blansten · July 2009

I have a good example for you....happened about one year ago to a kid in my town

He was about 16 and developed leukemia....began treatments, covered under his father's insurance so no problem right?

Wrong

Turns out there was a $2,000,000 cap on the insurance policy....they burned through that in a year

Got an email that just about made me cry...from the mother...sending a plea to everyone she knew to please help them...the hospital wanted a check for $500,000 before they would begin treatment for a bone marrow transplant

Unbelievably they raised like $800,000 within a week or 10 days

This poor kid ended up dying a few months later....did that delay have anything to do with it???

This is what is wrong with our system....there are no excuses for this

Talk your way out of this one jlew

blackredyellow · July 2009

decides2dream wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

know1 wrote:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....

You're not seeing the forest for the trees. The point is - and I stated it right up front - you can't say that a bankruptcy was due just to a medical debt when there are literally hundreds of factors at play in people's lives that contributed to it. Whatever their personal scenario happens to be, it cannot be that a single thing caused their bankruptcy.

Sounds a bit disingenuousness to me. If you're humming along, finances are good, life is going smooth, then you get cancer and a $150k medical bill and file for bankruptcy... how can you possibly say the illness and health costs did not cause that bankruptcy? Who has a couple hundred thousand dollars stockpiled for a rainy day that isn't in the top 2-3% of earners in this country? We should all live like Buddhist monks just to ensure that if we ever get sick, we have the finances covered?

and even beyond that....say you ARE fortunate in that yes, you can tap your home equity, or your retirement savings, or sure....you even DID save enough that you can cover it....is THAT a the system of 'healthcare' we want for us all? how does it even make sense? seriously? even amongst those who do 'everything right'.....save their money, live a healthy lifestyle.....still get stricken with life-threatening and expensive diseases......and run the risk of losing EVERYthing....their lives, and all they worked for. is THAT the system we want? i sure as shit don't.

Totally agree... you work 40 years of your life, pay off your mortgage, and built a savings that you can retire on... and one day you find out you have cancer, have to sell your house, exhaust you're retirement savings, luckily beat the cancer and then end up having to working until you are 75 years old, just to pay your daily living expenses.

decides2dream · July 2009

blackredyellow wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

and even beyond that....say you ARE fortunate in that yes, you can tap your home equity, or your retirement savings, or sure....you even DID save enough that you can cover it....is THAT a the system of 'healthcare' we want for us all? how does it even make sense? seriously? even amongst those who do 'everything right'.....save their money, live a healthy lifestyle.....still get stricken with life-threatening and expensive diseases......and run the risk of losing EVERYthing....their lives, and all they worked for. is THAT the system we want? i sure as shit don't.

Totally agree... you work 40 years of your life, pay off your mortgage, and built a savings that you can retire on... and one day you find out you have cancer, have to sell your house, exhaust you're retirement savings, luckily beat the cancer and then end up having to working until you are 75 years old, just to pay your daily living expenses.

exactly.
also, think of the family!
this can happen young or old.....and sure, there is disability insurance, 60% of your base pay. i mean honestly, how much private insurance does one need to get, how much does one need to save, for these 'what-ifs'....? i don't care how much you do it *right*, even with health insurance.....unless you are insanely wealthy it IS very possible to lose everything. i just don't know how anyone can support such a system, think it's right, think that is the best way to provide care for ourselves. then again, i am of the belief that profit should not be built-in to healthcare.

and hell yea....i work hard, i have a home, a good nest egg, i save well for my retirement, we both have what is considered good health insurance...at least for now.....but who knows for tomorrow? i already left my employer's plan and rejoined my husbands...who knows how much costs will go up...coverages cut.....and what about the retirement years? THAT is the truly scary part to me....when you need that healthcare the most in your life, when you are at your most vulnerable....yikes.....who knows? and THAT is NOT how it should be!

Medical Bankruptcies in the USA

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