1) i am surprised no witnesses said something earlier
2) WTF does this mean: "Defense attorneys told the judge their clients were good students and had never been in trouble before. Attorney Tim Taylor, representing Randall Moye, said his client's family is among the finest in the community. and just whose standards defines a "finest" family?? :roll:
So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
I kno you're not saying they shouldn't be punished. I'm just saying I don't think there's a better option out there for them than serious prison time. I'm not so sure these kids would have made it through college. And what's supposed to be done while they learn? Do we give them juvenile punishment? Put them in JDC, pay for a shrink, then send them off to college to date rape a few more girls before they learn enough?
no no no. I'm saying in a general sense of "life experience". by college age, the things I mentioned are common knowledge. at 14, its probably not.
If it was one incident of bullying, maybe I'd agree that we should look into reform. I can see a bunch of hormonal kids making a huge mistake once and appreciate the tactic of giving them some consequences that won't be so harsh in the hopes they will learn and never repeat. But this was ongoing over months in the brazen sight of the whole school. These kids have no remorse and seem pretty well beyond any sort of reformation for me.
I agree, I said that in my first post. if this was an isolated incident, it would be different. but 2 months of such abuse. wow.
Since I do not have access to all of the court's transcripts, i can only go be what was being reported in this brief article... i can only come up with conjecture...
So, i'm going with... 'It Depends...'.
I believe that this type of behaviour and actions don't just spring up at age 14... I would suspect that there were other incidents these kids were involved with in the years leading up to this. Possibly animal cruelty and animal (pet) killing, but that is a guess on my part.
Either way... an isolated set of events or a long term series of events... I would go with the maximum time served as allowed by law. The placement would be different depending on the past circumstances. If it was more along the lines of teenaged brutality, then the placement would be a medium security facility. If they have past histories of violent, sociopathic behaviour... a maximum security facility.
We don't need to give sociopathic teens the opportunity to grow into sociopathic adults based merely on age. A dangerous person is a dangerous person, no matter how old (or young) they are.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I kno you're not saying they shouldn't be punished. I'm just saying I don't think there's a better option out there for them than serious prison time. I'm not so sure these kids would have made it through college. And what's supposed to be done while they learn? Do we give them juvenile punishment? Put them in JDC, pay for a shrink, then send them off to college to date rape a few more girls before they learn enough?
no no no. I'm saying in a general sense of "life experience". by college age, the things I mentioned are common knowledge. at 14, its probably not.
Fair enough. But this is one of the clearest cut examples of locking someone up out of fear for what they might do while acquiring those life experiences that I ever saw.
I kno you're not saying they shouldn't be punished. I'm just saying I don't think there's a better option out there for them than serious prison time. I'm not so sure these kids would have made it through college. And what's supposed to be done while they learn? Do we give them juvenile punishment? Put them in JDC, pay for a shrink, then send them off to college to date rape a few more girls before they learn enough?
no no no. I'm saying in a general sense of "life experience". by college age, the things I mentioned are common knowledge. at 14, its probably not.
Fair enough. But this is one of the clearest cut examples of locking someone up out of fear for what they might do while acquiring those life experiences that I ever saw.
true. the only problem is, the life experiences they will now learn, is hardcore prison time. but, thats the way it is. heres to hoping they come out better then when they went in.
It amazes me that those four boys could all be that fucked up. The mentality of these kids is frightening, to say the least. How in the world does that happen. I mean, I can see random people being messed up like that, but for four boys to all continue that abuse is sickening.
I don't know about sentences....They definitely deserve to be punished, but I can guarantee that sending these kids to prison....well....you might as well write off any possibility of rehabilitation.
But with kids being that fucked up, do you really think that there is a possibility of rehabilitation anyway?
Hard to say...but I'm guessing one was the leader and three were followers...I'm not at all condoning giving them a light sentence. They should be punished severely. I just think that at that age kids are followers.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It amazes me that those four boys could all be that fucked up. The mentality of these kids is frightening, to say the least. How in the world does that happen. I mean, I can see random people being messed up like that, but for four boys to all continue that abuse is sickening.
I don't know about sentences....They definitely deserve to be punished, but I can guarantee that sending these kids to prison....well....you might as well write off any possibility of rehabilitation.
But with kids being that fucked up, do you really think that there is a possibility of rehabilitation anyway?
Hard to say...but I'm guessing one was the leader and three were followers...I'm not at all condoning giving them a light sentence. They should be punished severely. I just think that at that age kids are followers.
It's a shame is all.
True about one probably being the leader, and if all four families hire different lawyers...the lawyers will be trying to point the finger at a "leader" to get their client a reduced sentence.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
if there was ever an instance where the punishment should fit the crime, this is it.
these bastards have ruined this young boy's life beyond repair. period.
there isn't enough therapy in the world to even begin to erase the tremendous
amount of both physical and mental pain, torture and intimidation they repeatedly inflicted.
and i certainly don't want a penny of my tax dollars to be spent
trying to rehabilitate these monsters. as cruel as that sounds, they deserve
to be treated as the animals they have proven themselves to be.
let them rot in jail. they have forever ruined another human beings life,
in the worst possible way. and those who witnessed this horror and said nothing
should be harshly punished as well.
the victim's repeated begging, pleading, crying certainly should have given
them some clue what they were doing was wrong, regardless of the perpetrator's age.
Doing this over and over shows these "kids" are screwed up in the head already. I know for sure when i was 14 that i knew an act like this was horrible and shouldnt be done under any circumstance. These guys need to be off the streets for a long time.
14 is too young for any serious time in the state penitentiary
Something serious needs to be done though, don't they have juvenile detention centers in Florida or where this happened
If you are going to give some rehabilitation for sexual aggressive behaviors, or sexual offenses, 14 is the best age to do it... before it gets worse and they turn into 40 year old sexual predators
I would look at their home life's, I am willing to bet that one of them has been or was being sexually assaulted themselves
While I am all for justice for the boy who has been sexually assaulted I am not sure if those of you who are advocating they be locked up in a cell with someone who will eventually rape them realise they are advocating for paedophilia.
While I am all for justice for the boy who has been sexually assaulted I am not sure if those of you who are advocating they be locked up in a cell with someone who will eventually rape them realise they are advocating for paedophilia.
Weird how the human mind works when its angry.
I'm with you on this.
an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...
0
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,224
So sodomize a classmate for 2 months without conscience... I think those kids are ALREADY beyond rehabilitation.
its not that I disagree with you, but they are SO young. they have so much life ahead of them, and very little life experience. they dont really understand the consequences of their actions.
One question would you still feel this way if this was your 13 year that was the victim?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
So sodomize a classmate for 2 months without conscience... I think those kids are ALREADY beyond rehabilitation.
its not that I disagree with you, but they are SO young. they have so much life ahead of them, and very little life experience. they dont really understand the consequences of their actions.
One question would you still feel this way if this was your 13 year that was the victim?
Peace
feel what way? like I said before, stop making it sound like I'm somehow not wanting these kids to be punished. I do. but to answer your question, yes I would.
i would sentence them to sodomy by powerwasher, clean their asses out to their eyeballs, worst part is they will stay alive for about 70 percent of it. will hurt like a bitch
what about the parents of these kids? should they receive some of the blame for this? including jail time?
no.
I know a lot of amazing parents with fucked up kids...parents don't have control over psychological problems. I can imagine that the pain, embarrassment and guilt of living the situation is punishment enough for the parents.
what about the parents of these kids? should they receive some of the blame for this? including jail time?
no.
I know a lot of amazing parents with fucked up kids...parents don't have control over psychological problems. I can imagine that the pain, embarrassment and guilt of living the situation is punishment enough for the parents.
i'm just thinking out loud
i'm just wondering if the parents should have/could have noticed any signs their children had tendencies toward this behavior
what about the parents of these kids? should they receive some of the blame for this? including jail time?
no.
I know a lot of amazing parents with fucked up kids...parents don't have control over psychological problems. I can imagine that the pain, embarrassment and guilt of living the situation is punishment enough for the parents.
i'm just thinking out loud
i'm just wondering if the parents should have/could have noticed any signs their children had tendencies toward this behavior
hmm...probably. There must have been signs. I agree that the parents are accountable, just in a different way, I guess.
I hope people would want a little more info on the case than what's in the article before throwing all four kids to the wolves...the instant, easy, knee jerk response is rampant in this thread. full-on vengeful bravado. fuck yeah!
I hope people would want a little more info on the case than what's in the article before throwing all four kids to the wolves...the instant, easy, knee jerk response is rampant in this thread. full-on vengeful bravado. fuck yeah!
I'm a little surprised at this as well. maybe I'm just giving the age too much of a factor. 14 is just so young. and I agree with Cinnamon Girl, who has made some excellent points. there had to be a leader of this bunch. maybe even 1 or 2 of these 4 who were too scared to go against what was happening. but like you said, we need more info. many scenarios can be assumed
I'm a little surprised at this as well. maybe I'm just giving the age too much of a factor. 14 is just so young. and I agree with Cinnamon Girl, who has made some excellent points. there had to be a leader of this bunch. maybe even 1 or 2 of these 4 who were too scared to go against what was happening. but like you said, we need more info. many scenarios can be assumed
Did you just second guess your opinion cause you agreed with me?
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised by any of this...
the crime or the responses...
lots of 'eye for an eye' mentality references...
death penalty, WAR, torture, dead doctors, TERROR, domestic and gang violence etc etc...
It's done us a lot of good over the years.
Just general comments, sorry for bein off topic. I think reading the thread start to finish before commenting, with this mob mentality culminating in 14 yr olds being raped with a powerwasher got me thinkin a lil more big-picture...
:(
its not that I disagree with you, but they are SO young. they have so much life ahead of them, and very little life experience. they dont really understand the consequences of their actions.
One question would you still feel this way if this was your 13 year that was the victim?
Peace
feel what way? like I said before, stop making it sound like I'm somehow not wanting these kids to be punished. I do. but to answer your question, yes I would.
How do you know they don't understand the consequences of their action over several months of this criminal act? Of course they know this is wrong and they could go to jail for it, these teenagers today are much smarter than you think and know the lifelong ramifications of such actions.
A one time possibly on drugs act is one thing but repeated over time, 15 years minimum. When they get out they would be around 30 with plenty of time live with what put them in jail. However, the victim has to live or NOT live with what was done him for his lifetime especially for whatever reason he did NOT coming forward in the beginning of this dispicable crime.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
How do you know they don't understand the consequences of their action over several months of this criminal act? Of course they know this is wrong and they could go to jail for it, these teenagers today are much smarter than you think and know the lifelong ramifications of such actions.
A one time possibly on drugs act is one thing but repeated over time, 15 years minimum. When they get out they would be around 30 with plenty of time live with what put them in jail. However, the victim has to live or NOT live with what was done him for his lifetime especially for whatever reason he did NOT coming forward in the beginning of this dispicable crime.
Peace
ok, but do you think a long, adult sentence will bring any good, aside from preventing more acts like these (for whatever timeframe)? If locking them up is all you're going to do - you better just throw away the key....and build more prisons....30 also leaves a lot of time for a person raised in a brutal prison system to commit worse acts than even this.
sadly, prison is really all that's ever done, aside from sedation/archaic medical "treatment" - I am friends with psyche nurses and have heard enough horror stories about the lunatics running the asylums, and the drug reps that influence them, to have an opinion on modern mental 'rehab'.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised by any of this...
the crime or the responses...
lots of 'eye for an eye' mentality references...
death penalty, WAR, torture, dead doctors, TERROR, domestic and gang violence etc etc...
It's done us a lot of good over the years.
Just general comments, sorry for bein off topic. I think reading the thread start to finish before commenting, with this mob mentality culminating in 14 yr olds being raped with a powerwasher got me thinkin a lil more big-picture...
:(
Its especially weird to see it though. If one is angry that someone committed such a terrible crime how can one advocate that same crime occurring again?
Its slightly similar to the issue of capital punishment only with capital punishment the reason is to end ones life while in this case it is purely to inflict pain. Calling for rape to occur is like calling for torture and for a crime to occur. Its plain sick.
feel what way? like I said before, stop making it sound like I'm somehow not wanting these kids to be punished. I do. but to answer your question, yes I would.
How do you know they don't understand the consequences of their action over several months of this criminal act? [/quote]
I've already explained why. maybe you should read the thread but I'll say it again. first of all I don't know if they understand completely. I'm making generalizations about 14 year olds. I said before, I'd bet my life these kids do not know any statistics of what happens to people that are sexually abused. they never read or heard horror stories of someone getting raped. they dont truly understand the the physiological effects their actions have on this boy. but by the time they are say 24 instead of 14, all that type of stuff is common knowledge.
Of course they know this is wrong and they could go to jail for it, these teenagers today are much smarter than you think and know the lifelong ramifications of such actions.
how the fuck can you possible know this without knowing the boys personally?
A one time possibly on drugs act is one thing but repeated over time, 15 years minimum. When they get out they would be around 30 with plenty of time live with what put them in jail. However, the victim has to live or NOT live with what was done him for his lifetime especially for whatever reason he did NOT coming forward in the beginning of this dispicable crime.
Peace
again, I'm not looking for the boys to go unpunished and have agreed with several people who have throw out this 15 year number. next time read the thread
Its especially weird to see it though. If one is angry that someone committed such a terrible crime how can one advocate that same crime occurring again?
Its slightly similar to the issue of capital punishment only with capital punishment the reason is to end ones life while in this case it is purely to inflict pain. Calling for rape to occur is like calling for torture and for a crime to occur. Its plain sick.
wow Nok, we actually agree. are you telling me theres a chance?
Comments
2) WTF does this mean: "Defense attorneys told the judge their clients were good students and had never been in trouble before. Attorney Tim Taylor, representing Randall Moye, said his client's family is among the finest in the community. and just whose standards defines a "finest" family?? :roll:
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
no no no. I'm saying in a general sense of "life experience". by college age, the things I mentioned are common knowledge. at 14, its probably not.
I agree, I said that in my first post. if this was an isolated incident, it would be different. but 2 months of such abuse. wow.
So, i'm going with... 'It Depends...'.
I believe that this type of behaviour and actions don't just spring up at age 14... I would suspect that there were other incidents these kids were involved with in the years leading up to this. Possibly animal cruelty and animal (pet) killing, but that is a guess on my part.
Either way... an isolated set of events or a long term series of events... I would go with the maximum time served as allowed by law. The placement would be different depending on the past circumstances. If it was more along the lines of teenaged brutality, then the placement would be a medium security facility. If they have past histories of violent, sociopathic behaviour... a maximum security facility.
We don't need to give sociopathic teens the opportunity to grow into sociopathic adults based merely on age. A dangerous person is a dangerous person, no matter how old (or young) they are.
Hail, Hail!!!
Fair enough. But this is one of the clearest cut examples of locking someone up out of fear for what they might do while acquiring those life experiences that I ever saw.
true. the only problem is, the life experiences they will now learn, is hardcore prison time. but, thats the way it is. heres to hoping they come out better then when they went in.
Hard to say...but I'm guessing one was the leader and three were followers...I'm not at all condoning giving them a light sentence. They should be punished severely. I just think that at that age kids are followers.
It's a shame is all.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
these bastards have ruined this young boy's life beyond repair. period.
there isn't enough therapy in the world to even begin to erase the tremendous
amount of both physical and mental pain, torture and intimidation they repeatedly inflicted.
and i certainly don't want a penny of my tax dollars to be spent
trying to rehabilitate these monsters. as cruel as that sounds, they deserve
to be treated as the animals they have proven themselves to be.
let them rot in jail. they have forever ruined another human beings life,
in the worst possible way. and those who witnessed this horror and said nothing
should be harshly punished as well.
the victim's repeated begging, pleading, crying certainly should have given
them some clue what they were doing was wrong, regardless of the perpetrator's age.
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org
Something serious needs to be done though, don't they have juvenile detention centers in Florida or where this happened
If you are going to give some rehabilitation for sexual aggressive behaviors, or sexual offenses, 14 is the best age to do it... before it gets worse and they turn into 40 year old sexual predators
I would look at their home life's, I am willing to bet that one of them has been or was being sexually assaulted themselves
Weird how the human mind works when its angry.
an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...
One question would you still feel this way if this was your 13 year that was the victim?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
feel what way? like I said before, stop making it sound like I'm somehow not wanting these kids to be punished. I do. but to answer your question, yes I would.
no.
I know a lot of amazing parents with fucked up kids...parents don't have control over psychological problems. I can imagine that the pain, embarrassment and guilt of living the situation is punishment enough for the parents.
i'm just thinking out loud
i'm just wondering if the parents should have/could have noticed any signs their children had tendencies toward this behavior
hmm...probably. There must have been signs. I agree that the parents are accountable, just in a different way, I guess.
This story is horrible. :(
I'm a little surprised at this as well. maybe I'm just giving the age too much of a factor. 14 is just so young. and I agree with Cinnamon Girl, who has made some excellent points. there had to be a leader of this bunch. maybe even 1 or 2 of these 4 who were too scared to go against what was happening. but like you said, we need more info. many scenarios can be assumed
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised by any of this...
the crime or the responses...
lots of 'eye for an eye' mentality references...
death penalty, WAR, torture, dead doctors, TERROR, domestic and gang violence etc etc...
It's done us a lot of good over the years.
Just general comments, sorry for bein off topic. I think reading the thread start to finish before commenting, with this mob mentality culminating in 14 yr olds being raped with a powerwasher got me thinkin a lil more big-picture...
:(
How do you know they don't understand the consequences of their action over several months of this criminal act? Of course they know this is wrong and they could go to jail for it, these teenagers today are much smarter than you think and know the lifelong ramifications of such actions.
A one time possibly on drugs act is one thing but repeated over time, 15 years minimum. When they get out they would be around 30 with plenty of time live with what put them in jail. However, the victim has to live or NOT live with what was done him for his lifetime especially for whatever reason he did NOT coming forward in the beginning of this dispicable crime.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
sadly, prison is really all that's ever done, aside from sedation/archaic medical "treatment" - I am friends with psyche nurses and have heard enough horror stories about the lunatics running the asylums, and the drug reps that influence them, to have an opinion on modern mental 'rehab'.
I mean if this would have happened to me, I would be seeking some revenge.
Its especially weird to see it though. If one is angry that someone committed such a terrible crime how can one advocate that same crime occurring again?
Its slightly similar to the issue of capital punishment only with capital punishment the reason is to end ones life while in this case it is purely to inflict pain. Calling for rape to occur is like calling for torture and for a crime to occur. Its plain sick.
How do you know they don't understand the consequences of their action over several months of this criminal act? [/quote]
I've already explained why. maybe you should read the thread but I'll say it again. first of all I don't know if they understand completely. I'm making generalizations about 14 year olds. I said before, I'd bet my life these kids do not know any statistics of what happens to people that are sexually abused. they never read or heard horror stories of someone getting raped. they dont truly understand the the physiological effects their actions have on this boy. but by the time they are say 24 instead of 14, all that type of stuff is common knowledge.
how the fuck can you possible know this without knowing the boys personally?
again, I'm not looking for the boys to go unpunished and have agreed with several people who have throw out this 15 year number. next time read the thread
wow Nok, we actually agree. are you telling me theres a chance?