I am going to let YOU be the judge......

jlew24asu · June 2009

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

So sodomize a classmate for 2 months without conscience... I think those kids are ALREADY beyond rehabilitation.

its not that I disagree with you, but they are SO young. they have so much life ahead of them, and very little life experience. they dont really understand the consequences of their actions.

I think at 14, you're pretty well acquainted with the consequences of these actions. This isn't some kid from the ghetto getting caught up in gangs and ending up in a shooting. This is 4 kids indulging in sadistic torture of another kid for months AT SCHOOL. They aren't right in the head. This is basically sign number one for future serial killers.

I think 14 is near the border of truly understanding the consequences. of course they know right from wrong. but lack of life experience has to be a factor in this....and I dont think we know how they grew up. they may very well be from the ghetto (a white one). these kids need to be punished no doubt, but I'd like to think they can be rehabilitated, somehow.

soulsinging · June 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I think at 14, you're pretty well acquainted with the consequences of these actions. This isn't some kid from the ghetto getting caught up in gangs and ending up in a shooting. This is 4 kids indulging in sadistic torture of another kid for months AT SCHOOL. They aren't right in the head. This is basically sign number one for future serial killers.

I think 14 is near the border of truly understanding the consequences. of course they know right from wrong. but lack of life experience has to be a factor in this....and I dont think we know how they grew up. they may very well be from the ghetto (a white one). these kids need to be punished no doubt, but I'd like to think they can be rehabilitated, somehow.

I'm really curious as to what life experience you think someone needs to be able to understand why you shouldn't unwillingly sodomize someone for a few months?

I have to say that based on what I see here, 4 of those 5 lives were ruined long before they got caught by the justice system. Yeah, maybe they came from fucked up backgrounds, but it seems a bit too late to fix that. And now they've destroyed another one with them.

blackredyellow · June 2009

soulsinging wrote:

I'm really curious as to what life experience you think someone needs to be able to understand why you shouldn't unwillingly sodomize someone for a few months?

I have to say that based on what I see here, 4 of those 5 lives were ruined long before they got caught by the justice system. Yeah, maybe they came from fucked up backgrounds, but it seems a bit too late to fix that. And now they've destroyed another one with them.

I agree... I starting to type out something earlier about maybe one or two of the kids were caught up in peer-pressure or threatened by the rest of the group, but I can't imagine any kid in their right mind going along with this....

As a teenager we've probably all ended up doing stupid things with friends or were pressured into stuff (stealing things, vandalism, drugs, etc.), but you have to have some major issues to participate in sodomizing another kid several times with hockey sticks.

jlew24asu · June 2009

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I think at 14, you're pretty well acquainted with the consequences of these actions. This isn't some kid from the ghetto getting caught up in gangs and ending up in a shooting. This is 4 kids indulging in sadistic torture of another kid for months AT SCHOOL. They aren't right in the head. This is basically sign number one for future serial killers.

I think 14 is near the border of truly understanding the consequences. of course they know right from wrong. but lack of life experience has to be a factor in this....and I dont think we know how they grew up. they may very well be from the ghetto (a white one). these kids need to be punished no doubt, but I'd like to think they can be rehabilitated, somehow.

I'm really curious as to what life experience you think someone needs to be able to understand why you shouldn't unwillingly sodomize someone for a few months?

look, I'm not disagreeing with you. and dont make what I'm saying sound like I want these kids to go unpunished.

by life experience, I mean exactly that. say this was a 45 year old teacher doing this instead of these kids. he has been around long enough fully understand how much damage sodomizing a kid with a hockey stick is. if asked, I bet my life those kids dont know the physiological effects their actions have on that kid. or statistics of what happens to kids who get sexually abused. by the time those kids graduated college, that type of stuff is common knowledge ya know?

soulsinging wrote:

I have to say that based on what I see here, 4 of those 5 lives were ruined long before they got caught by the justice system. Yeah, maybe they came from fucked up backgrounds, but it seems a bit too late to fix that. And now they've destroyed another one with them.

well we just dont know for sure. but being 14, and SO many years ahead of them, maybe they can be saved. but rest assured, all focus needs to be on the victim. I'm hoping he gets the help he needs.

tybird · June 2009

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I think at 14, you're pretty well acquainted with the consequences of these actions. This isn't some kid from the ghetto getting caught up in gangs and ending up in a shooting. This is 4 kids indulging in sadistic torture of another kid for months AT SCHOOL. They aren't right in the head. This is basically sign number one for future serial killers.

I think 14 is near the border of truly understanding the consequences. of course they know right from wrong. but lack of life experience has to be a factor in this....and I dont think we know how they grew up. they may very well be from the ghetto (a white one). these kids need to be punished no doubt, but I'd like to think they can be rehabilitated, somehow.

I'm really curious as to what life experience you think someone needs to be able to understand why you shouldn't unwillingly sodomize someone for a few months?

I have to say that based on what I see here, 4 of those 5 lives were ruined long before they got caught by the justice system. Yeah, maybe they came from fucked up backgrounds, but it seems a bit too late to fix that. And now they've destroyed another one with them.

The victim's life may not yet be ruined, but it is forever changed in many ways. Sexual abuse does not cure itself nor does one casually forget it with time passed.

WaveCameCrashin · June 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

So sodomize a classmate for 2 months without conscience... I think those kids are ALREADY beyond rehabilitation.

its not that I disagree with you, but they are SO young. they have so much life ahead of them, and very little life experience. they dont really understand the consequences of their actions.

:shock: tough shit :x I'd give em 15 years so they would probably do like 10 or so

tybird · June 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

So sodomize a classmate for 2 months without conscience... I think those kids are ALREADY beyond rehabilitation.

its not that I disagree with you, but they are SO young. they have so much life ahead of them, and very little life experience. they dont really understand the consequences of their actions.

Looks like it's time for them to learn about consequences the hard way.

cincybearcat · June 2009

I find it funny that someone said that these are good kids. Really????? I'd hate to meet what those people think are bad kids.

This wasn't an isolated incident. These kids are sick.

15-20 years. See ya.

jlew24asu · June 2009

prfctlefts wrote:

:shock: tough shit :x I'd give em 15 years so they would probably do like 10 or so

tybird wrote:

Looks like it's time for them to learn about consequences the hard way.

I agree.

soulsinging · June 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

look, I'm not disagreeing with you. and dont make what I'm saying sound like I want these kids to go unpunished.

by life experience, I mean exactly that. say this was a 45 year old teacher doing this instead of these kids. he has been around long enough fully understand how much damage sodomizing a kid with a hockey stick is. if asked, I bet my life those kids dont know the physiological effects their actions have on that kid. or statistics of what happens to kids who get sexually abused. by the time those kids graduated college, that type of stuff is common knowledge ya know?

soulsinging wrote:

I have to say that based on what I see here, 4 of those 5 lives were ruined long before they got caught by the justice system. Yeah, maybe they came from fucked up backgrounds, but it seems a bit too late to fix that. And now they've destroyed another one with them.

well we just dont know for sure. but being 14, and SO many years ahead of them, maybe they can be saved. but rest assured, all focus needs to be on the victim. I'm hoping he gets the help he needs.

I kno you're not saying they shouldn't be punished. I'm just saying I don't think there's a better option out there for them than serious prison time. I'm not so sure these kids would have made it through college. And what's supposed to be done while they learn? Do we give them juvenile punishment? Put them in JDC, pay for a shrink, then send them off to college to date rape a few more girls before they learn enough?

If it was one incident of bullying, maybe I'd agree that we should look into reform. I can see a bunch of hormonal kids making a huge mistake once and appreciate the tactic of giving them some consequences that won't be so harsh in the hopes they will learn and never repeat. But this was ongoing over months in the brazen sight of the whole school. These kids have no remorse and seem pretty well beyond any sort of reformation for me.

Lizard · June 2009

1) i am surprised no witnesses said something earlier

2) WTF does this mean: "Defense attorneys told the judge their clients were good students and had never been in trouble before. Attorney Tim Taylor, representing Randall Moye, said his client's family is among the finest in the community. and just whose standards defines a "finest" family?? :roll:

jlew24asu · June 2009

soulsinging wrote:

I kno you're not saying they shouldn't be punished. I'm just saying I don't think there's a better option out there for them than serious prison time. I'm not so sure these kids would have made it through college. And what's supposed to be done while they learn? Do we give them juvenile punishment? Put them in JDC, pay for a shrink, then send them off to college to date rape a few more girls before they learn enough?

no no no. I'm saying in a general sense of "life experience". by college age, the things I mentioned are common knowledge. at 14, its probably not.

soulsinging wrote:

If it was one incident of bullying, maybe I'd agree that we should look into reform. I can see a bunch of hormonal kids making a huge mistake once and appreciate the tactic of giving them some consequences that won't be so harsh in the hopes they will learn and never repeat. But this was ongoing over months in the brazen sight of the whole school. These kids have no remorse and seem pretty well beyond any sort of reformation for me.

I agree, I said that in my first post. if this was an isolated incident, it would be different. but 2 months of such abuse. wow.

Cosmo · June 2009

Since I do not have access to all of the court's transcripts, i can only go be what was being reported in this brief article... i can only come up with conjecture...
So, i'm going with... 'It Depends...'.
I believe that this type of behaviour and actions don't just spring up at age 14... I would suspect that there were other incidents these kids were involved with in the years leading up to this. Possibly animal cruelty and animal (pet) killing, but that is a guess on my part.
Either way... an isolated set of events or a long term series of events... I would go with the maximum time served as allowed by law. The placement would be different depending on the past circumstances. If it was more along the lines of teenaged brutality, then the placement would be a medium security facility. If they have past histories of violent, sociopathic behaviour... a maximum security facility.
We don't need to give sociopathic teens the opportunity to grow into sociopathic adults based merely on age. A dangerous person is a dangerous person, no matter how old (or young) they are.

soulsinging · June 2009

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I kno you're not saying they shouldn't be punished. I'm just saying I don't think there's a better option out there for them than serious prison time. I'm not so sure these kids would have made it through college. And what's supposed to be done while they learn? Do we give them juvenile punishment? Put them in JDC, pay for a shrink, then send them off to college to date rape a few more girls before they learn enough?

no no no. I'm saying in a general sense of "life experience". by college age, the things I mentioned are common knowledge. at 14, its probably not.

Fair enough. But this is one of the clearest cut examples of locking someone up out of fear for what they might do while acquiring those life experiences that I ever saw.

jlew24asu · June 2009

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

I kno you're not saying they shouldn't be punished. I'm just saying I don't think there's a better option out there for them than serious prison time. I'm not so sure these kids would have made it through college. And what's supposed to be done while they learn? Do we give them juvenile punishment? Put them in JDC, pay for a shrink, then send them off to college to date rape a few more girls before they learn enough?

no no no. I'm saying in a general sense of "life experience". by college age, the things I mentioned are common knowledge. at 14, its probably not.

Fair enough. But this is one of the clearest cut examples of locking someone up out of fear for what they might do while acquiring those life experiences that I ever saw.

true. the only problem is, the life experiences they will now learn, is hardcore prison time. but, thats the way it is. heres to hoping they come out better then when they went in.

Cinnamon Girl · June 2009

blackredyellow wrote:

Cinnamon Girl wrote:

Ugh...I feel bad for all of them. Geez....14!?

It amazes me that those four boys could all be that fucked up. The mentality of these kids is frightening, to say the least. How in the world does that happen. I mean, I can see random people being messed up like that, but for four boys to all continue that abuse is sickening.

I don't know about sentences....They definitely deserve to be punished, but I can guarantee that sending these kids to prison....well....you might as well write off any possibility of rehabilitation.

But with kids being that fucked up, do you really think that there is a possibility of rehabilitation anyway?

Hard to say...but I'm guessing one was the leader and three were followers...I'm not at all condoning giving them a light sentence. They should be punished severely. I just think that at that age kids are followers.

It's a shame is all.

mickeyrat · June 2009

Max for each act/conviction! Consecutive! 120 years sounds about right

tybird · June 2009

Cinnamon Girl wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

Cinnamon Girl wrote:

Ugh...I feel bad for all of them. Geez....14!?

It amazes me that those four boys could all be that fucked up. The mentality of these kids is frightening, to say the least. How in the world does that happen. I mean, I can see random people being messed up like that, but for four boys to all continue that abuse is sickening.

I don't know about sentences....They definitely deserve to be punished, but I can guarantee that sending these kids to prison....well....you might as well write off any possibility of rehabilitation.

But with kids being that fucked up, do you really think that there is a possibility of rehabilitation anyway?

Hard to say...but I'm guessing one was the leader and three were followers...I'm not at all condoning giving them a light sentence. They should be punished severely. I just think that at that age kids are followers.

It's a shame is all.

True about one probably being the leader, and if all four families hire different lawyers...the lawyers will be trying to point the finger at a "leader" to get their client a reduced sentence.

QuarterToTen · June 2009

if there was ever an instance where the punishment should fit the crime, this is it.

these bastards have ruined this young boy's life beyond repair. period.
there isn't enough therapy in the world to even begin to erase the tremendous
amount of both physical and mental pain, torture and intimidation they repeatedly inflicted.

and i certainly don't want a penny of my tax dollars to be spent
trying to rehabilitate these monsters. as cruel as that sounds, they deserve
to be treated as the animals they have proven themselves to be.

let them rot in jail. they have forever ruined another human beings life,
in the worst possible way. and those who witnessed this horror and said nothing
should be harshly punished as well.

the victim's repeated begging, pleading, crying certainly should have given
them some clue what they were doing was wrong, regardless of the perpetrator's age.

yahamita · June 2009

CJMST3K wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

I am going to let YOU be the judge..

If YOU found these kids guilty on all accounts.....

What type of punishment would you give them???
How long of a prison sentence????

I'm an "eye for an eye" kinda guy. I would give the other inmates broomsticks and hockey sticks and have at them.

That is exactly what I was going to type...young disgusting pigs..

I am going to let YOU be the judge......

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