Why is Obama against gay marriage?

13

Comments

  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    dharma69 wrote:
    I did say contradictory, didn't I?

    You would think that leaving it up to the individual states instead of the federal gov't would be the logical and responsible thing to do, but that's not foolproof either.

    But the difficulty of states' rights was brought up earlier by him. States' rights would be overrode should a gay couple move into a state that has a ban of gay marriage on the books, because in this case the federal law would override state law.

    I just don't understand why people are so opposed to the idea. There are plenty of gay couples already; why are we removing their rights? We should only make something illegal if there is a reason it has to be. I've not seen a good answer about that regarding gay marriage yet.
  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,578
    digster wrote:
    But the difficulty of states' rights was brought up earlier by him. States' rights would be overrode should a gay couple move into a state that has a ban of gay marriage on the books, because in this case the federal law would override state law.

    I just don't understand why people are so opposed to the idea. There are plenty of gay couples already; why are we removing their rights? We should only make something illegal if there is a reason it has to be. I've not seen a good answer about that regarding gay marriage yet.

    Yeah, I mean it doesn't hurt anyone to call it marriage. If you are married and you believe that giving gay people the right to marry somehow hurts your marriage, I just don't get that.

    I have a gay second cousin in Germany who is legally married to a man. I posted this in another thread. I saw both of them at a wedding recently, and they are really nice guys and nothing about the relationship is weird to me when I see them. Anyway, they said the only place in the world where they can't dance at a wedding would be the US.

    My point is that the institution of marriage is strong. It is not being weakened by letting gay people get married. We have it in CA and guess what? Straight people are still getting married. No one cares. Let these people get married. It matters more to them than it does to anyone else.
    San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, Boston 9/15/24, Ohanafest 2025 (EV)
  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,578
    dharma69 wrote:
    I did say contradictory, didn't I?

    You would think that leaving it up to the individual states instead of the federal gov't would be the logical and responsible thing to do, but that's not foolproof either. But also, in my head, I see you start changing something like the definition of marriage and all else follows; why stop there? Change everything. Bigamists want to be able to legalize their marriages as well, so let them.

    But that's just me.


    Yeah, there are lots of bigamists cases. The issue with those is the freedom of religion vs. the public policy of outlawing bigamy. The cases side with the state's right to deem it illegal. So there is precedent there that wouldn't be affected by this gay marriage issue.

    I hear your point though. But I don't know that there is a lot of risk in this being a slippery slope. Marriage would just be defined as a union of two people, nothing more nothing less. I dunno. Seems simple to me.
    San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, Boston 9/15/24, Ohanafest 2025 (EV)
  • Lanegan7
    Lanegan7 Posts: 124
    Getting divorced is a more meaningful tradition than getting married, but whatever, if gays want to get married I couldn't care less. More power to them.
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    sponger wrote:
    Marriage is a joke. It's pathetic to see people trying to protect its "traditional" meaning.

    Maybe to you it is, but not to me and many other people.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • dharma69
    dharma69 Posts: 1,275
    digster wrote:
    But the difficulty of states' rights was brought up earlier by him. States' rights would be overrode should a gay couple move into a state that has a ban of gay marriage on the books, because in this case the federal law would override state law.

    I just don't understand why people are so opposed to the idea. There are plenty of gay couples already; why are we removing their rights? We should only make something illegal if there is a reason it has to be. I've not seen a good answer about that regarding gay marriage yet.
    Depending on who you ask, being gay is "illegal" so that's a tricky area as well.

    And again, no one's really "removing their rights"; they're just calling a gay marriage a civil union.
    "I'm here to see Pearl Jam."- Bono

    ...signed...the token black Pearl Jam fan.

    FaceSpace
  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,578
    dharma69 wrote:
    Depending on who you ask, being gay is "illegal" so that's a tricky area as well.

    And again, no one's really "removing their rights"; they're just calling a gay marriage a civil union.


    Anyone who says that being gay is illegal does not know the law.

    It's separate but equal. Brown v. Board is on point.
    San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, Boston 9/15/24, Ohanafest 2025 (EV)
  • Nothingman54
    Nothingman54 Posts: 2,251
    radiohead33 wrote:
    title says it all

    Because its nasty and should never be allowed????
    I'll be back
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    digster wrote:
    There are plenty of gay couples already; why are we removing their rights?

    The issue is whether or not they should HAVE that right in the first place. That's the issue. It's not whether or not we should take it away, it's about giving it to them in the first place. Please understand that. Because gay marriages are obviously not spelled out in the Constitution as a right, the government must decide if it wants to recognize and grant gay civil unions or not.

    I personally support allowing gay civil unions. I wouldn't, however, support any efforts to force churches to recognize or perform gay marriages. In my mind, the definition of a civil union is up to the government to decide, and the definition of "marriage" is up to churches and religions to decide.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • Lanegan7
    Lanegan7 Posts: 124
    Nothingman54 wrote:
    Because its nasty and should never be allowed????

    Gay people are going to have sex anyway so why not?
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    Lanegan7 wrote:
    Gay people are going to have sex anyway so why not?

    That's a flawed argument. People are always going to be murdered, does that mean we should allow murder? In fact, murder probably occurs more often.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,578
    MattyJoe wrote:
    That's a flawed argument. People are always going to be murdered, does that mean we should allow murder? In fact, murder probably occurs more often.


    You think murder occurs more often than gay sex?

    Anyway, we are way off topic at this point.
    San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, Boston 9/15/24, Ohanafest 2025 (EV)
  • Lanegan7
    Lanegan7 Posts: 124
    MattyJoe wrote:
    That's a flawed argument. People are always going to be murdered, does that mean we should allow murder? In fact, murder probably occurs more often.

    That's flawed aswell, gay sex isn't something illegal.
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    Lanegan7 wrote:
    That's flawed aswell, gay sex isn't something illegal.

    We're talking about gay marriage, not gay sex.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    meistereder wrote:
    You think murder occurs more often than gay sex?

    Anyway, we are way off topic at this point.

    It may. I'm not being discriminatory, honestly. It's very possible.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,299
    sponger wrote:
    Marriage is a joke. It's pathetic to see people trying to protect its "traditional" meaning.

    Marraige is not a joke. People have made it a joke by their actions.
  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,578
    MattyJoe wrote:
    It may. I'm not being discriminatory, honestly. It's very possible.

    I am pretty sure there are way more gay people in the world than you think.
    San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, Boston 9/15/24, Ohanafest 2025 (EV)
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    meistereder wrote:
    I am pretty sure there are way more gay people in the world than you think.

    I'm also pretty sure there's a lot of fucking murders that occur in the world.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • meistereder
    meistereder Posts: 1,578
    MattyJoe wrote:
    I'm also pretty sure there's a lot of fucking murders that occur in the world.


    In LA County, a murder is committed every 26 hours. That may be the highest murder rate out there, according to this website. So far, in 2008, there have been 274 murders.

    http://www.lacountymurders.com/stats.cfm

    So you think that in LA County, one gay person has sex every couple days or so?

    Now, I think if you count the night of 9/11/01 in New York City, you may be close, assuming you count the people who died in the WTC as murders. Frankly, I have no clue how many gay people had sex in New York City that night, but I am positive it was more than one person every 26 hours. There are lots of gay people in the world. It's just that in some areas, they can't be honest about their lifestyles, which is sad.

    But we are way off topic here.
    San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, Boston 9/15/24, Ohanafest 2025 (EV)
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    meistereder wrote:
    In LA County, a murder is committed every 26 hours. That may be the highest murder rate out there, according to this website. So far, in 2008, there have been 274 murders.

    http://www.lacountymurders.com/stats.cfm

    So you think that in LA County, one gay person has sex every couple days or so?

    Now, I think if you count the night of 9/11/01 in New York City, you may be close, assuming you count the people who died in the WTC as murders. Frankly, I have no clue how many gay people had sex in New York City that night, but I am positive it was more than one person every 26 hours. There are lots of gay people in the world. It's just that in some areas, they can't be honest about their lifestyles, which is sad.

    But we are way off topic here.

    I have nothing against gay people. There are gay people in my family who I really respect and have no problems with. But honestly, I think there are fewer gay people in the world than one would think.

    But you're right, we are very off topic, although I think the topic has kinda run it's course anyway.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan

Categories