Parents of murdered gay man have a question for the GOP

darkcrow
darkcrow Posts: 1,102
edited November 2007 in A Moving Train
Watch the video here

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/20/murdered-gay-mans-parent_n_73468.html
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Comments

  • bgivens33
    bgivens33 Posts: 290
    darkcrow wrote:
    Watch the video here

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/20/murdered-gay-mans-parent_n_73468.html

    What is the GOP going to do to minimize crime??? I don't know why people insist on calling these "hate crimes". That type of terminology does nothing but perpetuate inequality. Murder is murder... it doesn't matter what the intentions are.
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    sorry about the guy being murdered, but it's a crap question
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • chopitdown
    chopitdown Posts: 2,222
    you can promote a climate of understanding all you want, but you can never control every little freak out there that thinks it's ok to do this. People put way too much emphasis on what can the president do, what can congress do. How bout what can each individual do??? You have to encourage people to treat others with respect that's about all the president can do. Sure you can legislate anti hate measures etc..., but if laws solved problems why are the prisons so crowded? Just b/c a law exists doesn't mean that everyone will follow it. Murder still happens, kidnapping happens, people still smoke pot and drink underage etc...
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  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    darkcrow wrote:
    Watch the video here

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/20/murdered-gay-mans-parent_n_73468.html

    wtf? most criminals are democrats. republicans are usually business owners and those who know that if you help business; it helps everyone. mostly by providing jobs and stimulating the economy. maybe all the gay people should be shipped to an island or something. oh, wait; there are many gay criminals so they have a chance of getting killed anyway. gee; welcome to life.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    bgivens33 wrote:
    What is the GOP going to do to minimize crime??? I don't know why people insist on calling these "hate crimes". That type of terminology does nothing but perpetuate inequality. Murder is murder... it doesn't matter what the intentions are.

    Totally agree. Hate crime laws should be abolished.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    onelongsong wrote:
    wtf? most criminals are democrats. republicans are usually business owners and those who know that if you help business; it helps everyone. mostly by providing jobs and stimulating the economy. maybe all the gay people should be shipped to an island or something. oh, wait; there are many gay criminals so they have a chance of getting killed anyway. gee; welcome to life.

    ??????????????????
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    flywallyfly wrote:
    ??????????????????

    glad it wasn't just me...


    I'll borrow this from Billy Madison - "Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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  • prytocorduroy
    prytocorduroy Posts: 4,355
    bgivens33 wrote:
    I don't know why people insist on calling these "hate crimes". That type of terminology does nothing but perpetuate inequality. Murder is murder... it doesn't matter what the intentions are.
    This murder wouldn't have happened if the kid was straight.
    know1 wrote:
    Hate crime laws should be abolished.
    .............would you care to elaborate this thought?
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    danny72688 wrote:
    This murder wouldn't have happened if the kid was straight.

    well he could have been black and got killed
    he could have been white and got killed
    he could have been fat and got killed

    big ears, etc...you get the picture

    there are a lot of people murdered for a lot of reasons...sometimes for no reason at all.
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    danny72688 wrote:
    .............would you care to elaborate this thought?

    It makes no sense to call a white on black crime a "hate crime" while calling a white on white crime (or other combinations) just a crime. Prosecute for the crime, not for the intent.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • trappedinmyradio
    trappedinmyradio Posts: 1,189
    know1 wrote:
    It makes no sense to call a white on black crime a "hate crime" while calling a white on white crime (or other combinations) just a crime. Prosecute for the crime, not for the intent.

    state of mind is important. a hate crime is such that you are saying "but for the race/gender/sexuality/culture/ethnicity, this person would not have been killed". so, basically, you have someone that is murdered for no other reason than being. that is pretty sick to me. the person didn't do anything other than offend someone by their very being a certain way...a hate crime exacerbates a crime instead of being a crime in and of itself (it is a general term). if you only punish based on intent then you effectively abolish all law based on negligence and and unintended consequences.

    for instance, "my intent was to beat the guy within an inch of his life, but he died. i'm sorry that was not my intention."

    "okay, sir, here is your sentence for criminal assault and battery."

    you punish the act/outcome not the intent unless the intent somehow exacerbates or mitigates the crime and then it is taken into account with the crime instead of apart from the act.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    810wmb wrote:
    well he could have been black and got killed
    he could have been white and got killed
    he could have been fat and got killed

    big ears, etc...you get the picture

    there are a lot of people murdered for a lot of reasons...sometimes for no reason at all.

    there is never a reason for murder. ever.
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  • prytocorduroy
    prytocorduroy Posts: 4,355
    810wmb wrote:
    well he could have been black and got killed
    he could have been white and got killed
    he could have been fat and got killed

    big ears, etc...you get the picture

    there are a lot of people murdered for a lot of reasons...sometimes for no reason at all.
    There is always a reason. Some are better than others (not justifying murder or anything, just saying). You don't wake up one morning and think: "Hey it'd be fun to kill someone today!" There is always some underlying reasoning, may it be that you hate gays or blacks, the guy ran over and killed your son driving drunk and you want revenge, or maybe you're just fucked up in the head and voices told you to do it.
  • prytocorduroy
    prytocorduroy Posts: 4,355
    know1 wrote:
    It makes no sense to call a white on black crime a "hate crime" while calling a white on white crime (or other combinations) just a crime. Prosecute for the crime, not for the intent.
    White on white crimes aren't done out of hatred for that race/ethnicity/sexual orientation/religious belief/etc. and if they are then that's a hate crime.

    And not all white on black crimes are hate crimes. Maybe a black guy stiffed a white guy on a drug deal, and the white guy didn't like that so he goes after him and kills him. That's not a hate crime. But a white person killing a black person BECAUSE HE IS BLACK, and for no other reason besides that, IS a hate crime and vice versa.
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    i hate motherfuckers, so i kill them - that's a hate crime...
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • JD Sal
    JD Sal Posts: 790
    Hate crimes are different because they are not just directed at an individual but are meant to cause fear and intimidation in an entire group or class of people.

    The folks that don't see any difference with "hate crimes" must be looking at just the crime itself and not the repercussions. When hate crimes are commited, the chances for retaliatory crimes are much greater.

    The New York State Legislature wrote the following when it enacted the Hate Crimes Act of 2000:

    Hate crimes do more than threaten the safety and welfare of all citizens. They inflict on victims incalculable physical and emotional damage and tear at the very fabric of free society. Crimes motivated by invidious hatred toward particular groups not only harm individual victims but send a powerful message of intolerance and discrimination to all members of the group to which the victim belongs. Hate crimes can and do intimidate and disrupt entire communities and vitiate the civility that is essential to healthy democratic processes. In a democratic society, citizens cannot be required to approve of the beliefs and practices of others, but must never commit criminal acts on account of them. Current law does not adequately recognize the harm to public order and individual safety that hate crimes cause. Therefore, our laws must be strengthened to provide clear recognition of the gravity of hate crimes and the compelling importance of preventing their recurrence. Accordingly, the legislature finds and declares that hate crimes should be prosecuted and punished with appropriate severity."
    "If no one sees you, you're not here at all"
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    danny72688 wrote:
    There is always a reason. Some are better than others (not justifying murder or anything, just saying). You don't wake up one morning and think: "Hey it'd be fun to kill someone today!" There is always some underlying reasoning, may it be that you hate gays or blacks, the guy ran over and killed your son driving drunk and you want revenge, or maybe you're just fucked up in the head and voices told you to do it.

    Those aren't reasons, are they? I know you aren't trying to justify killing, but if you think about what you are stating here, unless you're some sort of murder scene investigator, I don't follow the logic. An investigation into murder hypothesizes and profiles possible scenarios in order to narrow down or target a suspect. It doesn't give a reason for murder.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    810wmb wrote:
    i hate motherfuckers, so i kill them - that's a hate crime...

    I sympathize...

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=sDcY6CjdtuM&feature=related
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    JD Sal wrote:
    Hate crimes are different because they are not just directed at an individual but are meant to cause fear and intimidation in an entire group or class of people.

    The folks that don't see any difference with "hate crimes" must be looking at just the crime itself and not the repercussions. When hate crimes are commited, the chances for retaliatory crimes are much greater.

    The New York State Legislature wrote the following when it enacted the Hate Crimes Act of 2000:

    Hate crimes do more than threaten the safety and welfare of all citizens. They inflict on victims incalculable physical and emotional damage and tear at the very fabric of free society. Crimes motivated by invidious hatred toward particular groups not only harm individual victims but send a powerful message of intolerance and discrimination to all members of the group to which the victim belongs. Hate crimes can and do intimidate and disrupt entire communities and vitiate the civility that is essential to healthy democratic processes. In a democratic society, citizens cannot be required to approve of the beliefs and practices of others, but must never commit criminal acts on account of them. Current law does not adequately recognize the harm to public order and individual safety that hate crimes cause. Therefore, our laws must be strengthened to provide clear recognition of the gravity of hate crimes and the compelling importance of preventing their recurrence. Accordingly, the legislature finds and declares that hate crimes should be prosecuted and punished with appropriate severity."

    okay then..so by that rationale, ALL RAPE and SERIAL KILLING of women,
    should be considered a hate crime.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    JD Sal wrote:
    Hate crimes are different because they are not just directed at an individual but are meant to cause fear and intimidation in an entire group or class of people.

    The folks that don't see any difference with "hate crimes" must be looking at just the crime itself and not the repercussions. When hate crimes are commited, the chances for retaliatory crimes are much greater.

    The New York State Legislature wrote the following when it enacted the Hate Crimes Act of 2000:

    Hate crimes do more than threaten the safety and welfare of all citizens. They inflict on victims incalculable physical and emotional damage and tear at the very fabric of free society. Crimes motivated by invidious hatred toward particular groups not only harm individual victims but send a powerful message of intolerance and discrimination to all members of the group to which the victim belongs. Hate crimes can and do intimidate and disrupt entire communities and vitiate the civility that is essential to healthy democratic processes. In a democratic society, citizens cannot be required to approve of the beliefs and practices of others, but must never commit criminal acts on account of them. Current law does not adequately recognize the harm to public order and individual safety that hate crimes cause. Therefore, our laws must be strengthened to provide clear recognition of the gravity of hate crimes and the compelling importance of preventing their recurrence. Accordingly, the legislature finds and declares that hate crimes should be prosecuted and punished with appropriate severity."

    That's well-written.
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