Parents of murdered gay man have a question for the GOP

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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    JD Sal wrote:
    The punishment for crimes against women has been fair, because the law recognized the impact that it had against all women in society. You agreed with that statement earlier in this thread.

    The punishment for a hate crime, a crime against someone simply because they are gay for example, did not factor in the societal harm that it causes, and therefore needed to be strengthened. You agreed that crimes against women are already being punished appropriately, so why do you think they should be classified as hate crimes?

    where did i agree that the punishment for crimes against woman was adequate? or inadequate for that matter. that was never my focus.


    go and read all my posts sequentially and you will see my reasoning.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    catefrances wrote:
    where did i agree that the punishment for crimes against woman was adequate? or inadequate for that matter. that was never my focus.


    go and read all my posts sequentially and you will see my reasoning.

    You're saying that violent crime against women in general should be covered in a hate crimes bill. The inference you make is that there are "crimes of hate" that are already prosecuted under different laws.

    It doesn't seem to me that Hate Crimes are intended to be an all-encompassing law as you would like it to be.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    gue_barium wrote:
    You're saying that violent crime against women in general should be covered in a hate crimes bill. That is the inference that there are "crimes of hate" that are already prosecuted under different laws.

    It doesn't seem to me that Crimes of Hate is intended to be an all-encompassing law as you would like it to be.

    im asking why violent crime(ie rape torture serial murder et al.) against women isnt considered a hate crime. that's all.
    im not talking about 'crimes of hate' being all encompasssing. you know sometimes a punch in the face is just a punch in the face. someone is annoying you, tis irrelevant whether they're a man or a woman imo. they piss you off you lash out. simple.
    what i was talking about and im sure i made myself more than clear gue, is crimes that occur when the target is chosen solely because they are a woman and are seen as as an object of hatred because of it. and no im not talking bag snatches.

    why are we talking in circles with this? did we not resolve all we had to, gue?
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    catefrances wrote:
    im asking why violent crime(ie rape torture serial murder et al.) against women isnt considered a hate crime. that's all.
    im not talking about 'crimes of hate' being all encompasssing. you know sometimes a punch in the face is just a punch in the face. someone is annoying you, tis irrelevant whether they're a man or a woman imo. they piss you off you lash out. simple.
    what i was talking about and im sure i made myself more than clear gue, is crimes that occur when the target is chosen solely because they are a woman and are seen as as an object of hatred because of it. and no im not talking bag snatches.

    why are we talking in circles with this? did we not resolve all we had to, gue?

    Hate and anger are not one in the same.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    gue_barium wrote:
    Hate and anger are not one in the same.

    never said they were. :)
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    catefrances wrote:
    never said they were. :)

    hmmm.

    this is interesting because you have been approaching this topic
    in a rather close to the vest manner. Almost angrily.
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  • JD Sal
    JD Sal Posts: 790
    catefrances wrote:
    where did i agree that the punishment for crimes against woman was adequate? or inadequate for that matter. that was never my focus.


    go and read all my posts sequentially and you will see my reasoning.

    By saying you "weren't debating that aspect" I thought you were saying you agreed with it. I may have misunderstood.

    So, I'll ask then, do you think that punishment for crimes against women is fair?
    JD Sal wrote:
    Read my post above. The punishment for rape and crimes against women is deemed appropriate as it factors in the fear and intimidation in can cause in all women.
    catefrances wrote:
    im not debating this aspect. my concern is specific. always has been on this thread.
    "If no one sees you, you're not here at all"
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    gue_barium wrote:
    hmmm.

    this is interesting because you have been approaching this topic
    in a rather close to the vest manner. Almost angrily.

    hmm... interesting that you seem to think you are able to read my intentions.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    JD Sal wrote:
    By saying you "weren't debating that aspect" I thought you were saying you agreed with it. I may have misunderstood.

    So, I'll ask then, do you think that punishment for crimes against women is fair?


    no. by saying i wasnt debating that aspect i was saying it was not my focus. i was trying to keep it simple so i wouldnt get distracted. and also.....


    ... i am not familiar with what is meted out in regards to specific crimes, so i can not comment.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    catefrances wrote:
    hmm... interesting that you seem to think you are able to read my intentions.

    You have angry intentions?
    I didn't say that.
    But, you just did.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    gue_barium wrote:
    You have angry intentions?
    I didn't say that.
    But, you just did.

    no i didn't. i was questioning you apparent ability to second guess me. not confirming what my intentions were. :)
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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    know1 wrote:
    Totally agree. Hate crime laws should be abolished.

    Do you honestly think that someone who spray paints a swastika on the side of a Jewish family's home, and some sixteen year old kid who spray paints " Bill + Sally = Luv" on the side of a random someone's home, should recieve the same punishment?! Its very obviously not the same crime. Both involve spray paint and someone's house. Both are acts of vandalism. But they are FAR from the same thing. To suggest the former is not worthy of a stiffer penalty than the latter is laughably ridiculous.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Skitch Patterson
    Skitch Patterson Posts: 642
    cornnifer wrote:
    No. That would be aggravated assault motivated by someone grabbing your cock without permission, (which could potentially be considered sexual assault in its own right). i'm not a lawyer but i'm thinkin the punishment for punching the alleged cockgrabber would be fairly light.

    That isn't the same thing as seeing two men holding hands, and, without any other provocation, beating the shit out of them while calling them all kinds of faggots and queers. The two situations are, very obviously, not even comparable. Its apples and oranges, really. The latter, is without question, a "hate crime", and should carry a heavier punishment than your average assault charge.

    But too often the "hate crime" is a result of what is said while committing the crime... not the actual intent. If you say "nigger" while stealing a black ladies purse, is it a hate crime, or just a robbery?


    and q_b... I cant have been a victim of a hate crime. Im a White Male. No one hates us.

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