What would it take to talk about guns

Vedderlution_Baby · February 2008

Nevermind wrote:

Whats wrong with being in bed together. Sorry about the caps, I read your post and thought thats how we were typpnig tonight

Haha, no prob. That was a stab at drifting. I just realize you can't talk about guns at this place.

Clarify when you say they're in bed together. Guns and politicians, Guns and americans....something else...?

Nevermind · February 2008

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Haha, no prob. That was a stab at drifting. I just realize you can't talk about guns at this place.

Clarify when you say they're in bed together. Guns and politicians, Guns and americans....something else...?

I really dont knwo. I was told im too serious so i decided to get drunk as fuck and start posting. What i meant was the repub's and democrats are fucking each other and making money.

Vedderlution_Baby · February 2008

Nevermind wrote:

I really dont knwo. I was told im too serious so i decided to get drunk as fuck and start posting. What i meant was the repub's and democrats are fucking each other and making money.

Oh yea! I totally agree with you there. Don't even get me started on that shit. Drunk as fuck is the only good was to post! It's fucking fun. And you always have fun!

searchlightsoul · February 2008

jeffbr wrote:

You act as if taking away someone's rights is trivial and tangential to the issue when in fact is is the fundamental consideration. You bet your ass I'll yell anytime anyone tries.

The paradox is that the right to bear arms actually limits personal freedoms-living in fear is not living in freedom. I'm just happy that I can live in a country like Australia which has taken steps to avoid becoming lilke America.

Collin · February 2008

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Some will want to restrict the right to arms.

School shootings seem to happen a lot in the US. Here in Europe there have been 5 maybe 6 shool shootings in the last 20 years. There have been at least 5 school shootings in the US the last 2 years.

That is a problem. You have people who want to ban guns entirely. I don't see how that would work. But there are also people who want to have stricter rules, so that not every psycho can go to a story and buy a gun. They want background checks, perhaps exams or training etc.

That doesn't take away your right to have a gun. It doesn't even restrict it.

To it seems that with all the people yelling to ban guns and all the people screaming it's their right to own guns, people can't hear common sense anymore.

ClimberInOz · February 2008

I have never understood the response of some people to gun control. There obviously has to be some restrictions on an individuals freedoms if we are to maintain some form of civilised society. How is restricting a citizens access to firearms any different to limiting the speed that they can drive vehicles, the age at which they can purchase alcohol or their rights to inject certain drugs into their own body?

I know that it is written into the constitution in America that its citizens have the right to bear arms, but surely if there is a problem with gun violence... which by all acounts there appears to be, steps need to be taken to fix it.

It will not be the entire solution, but maybe a good compromise would be to limit access to the types and numbers of weapons available (beyond what is already done). Maybe it is just a cultural difference, but I cannot understand the non-issue that this is in America.

Its absurd- before the year is out we all know that there will be another round of these mass shootings for us to discuss. I wonder how long the same arguments against gun control can be used in the face of this seemingly perpetual violence?

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun · February 2008

i like guns. dont have any, but want to be able to buy one if i want.

jlew24asu · February 2008

I hate guns with a passion but I do not want the government being the only ones to carry them.

Strangest Tribe · February 2008

how could they ever control guns anyway??? It seems like Gestapo practices of going door to door would be the only way. In my state you don't have to register guns that you have already owned prior to all the laws that passed a few years ago regarding purchasing handguns. There's no waiting period for rifles either.

There are millions of guns in homes across the US that have no paper trail.

Where I'm from people trade pistols and rifles like we trade posters here.

It would be impossible to outlaw guns. So that makes education the best solution.

godpt3 · February 2008

My father was a hunter back in the days, and I live in Dodge City, Kan., so I understand completely the gun heritage. But my question has always been, what do you need an assault rifle for??? You don't hunt deer with a 50 cal machine gun. You vaporize them. The object of hunting is to leave as few holes in the prey as possible so you can harvest the meat. What legitimate reason does ANYONE have for owning a fucking machine gun???

And if I remember my high school government class, didn't the Supreme Court rule in like the 19030s that a "well regulated" militia referred to the National Guard, not private citizens???

jeffbr · February 2008

searchlightsoul wrote:

The paradox is that the right to bear arms actually limits personal freedoms-living in fear is not living in freedom. I'm just happy that I can live in a country like Australia which has taken steps to avoid becoming lilke America.

I'm happy you live in Australia, too if that's what makes you happy. I'm happy here living without fear. Glad we're both happy with our current situations.

jeffbr · February 2008

godpt3 wrote:

And if I remember my high school government class, didn't the Supreme Court rule in like the 19030s that a "well regulated" militia referred to the National Guard, not private citizens???

You'll have to find a source for that one. Lots of high school civics teachers misinterpret the bill of rights all of the time. The supremes do it occasionally. It would have been curious for the bill of rights to start out specifically reserving a list of individual rights except one right in the middle where they were talking about a national guard.

dpmay · February 2008

does anyone find the punctuation of the second amendment confusing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

all those commas? shit, i think anyone can make this say anything they want...

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun · February 2008

godpt3 wrote:

My father was a hunter back in the days, and I live in Dodge City, Kan., so I understand completely the gun heritage. But my question has always been, what do you need an assault rifle for??? You don't hunt deer with a 50 cal machine gun. You vaporize them. The object of hunting is to leave as few holes in the prey as possible so you can harvest the meat. What legitimate reason does ANYONE have for owning a fucking machine gun???

to kill nazis, invaders, the government when they inevitably go into police state mode, possibly martians, stuff like that.

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2008

ClimberInOz wrote:

How is restricting a citizens access to firearms any different to limiting the speed that they can drive vehicles, the age at which they can purchase alcohol or their rights to inject certain drugs into their own body?

Well it's not much different realy, and that's why i have a problem with it: Its a slippery slope.

Who is going to come up with the rules and regulations for who is no longer qualified to own a gun. What will the "test" to get firearms be? What items in a background check will deny you a gun?

Are soldiers with PTSD or kids who have been diagnosed with ADHD "crazy"? What about anyone who has ever spent time in a mental institution, half-way home, or been to see a psychiatrist? How about foster kids, they often have a lot of "problems"?

Who is drawing up the guidelines, how are the people to be guaranteed that the rules can't be changed overnight, and what is the recourse for individuals or a broad class of citizens who have been denied the right to own a gun?

If you feel you aren't crazy, but "they" say you are, how long will it take to get it straightened out? Will you have to go to court to fight it? How much money will it cost? Are the taxpayers picking up the tab for all this regulation? The gunstores?

See what i'm saying?

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2008

MrSmith wrote:

to kill nazis, invaders, the government when they inevitably go into police state mode, possibly martians, stuff like that.

I would just like to point out that while this sounds absurd to so many ... it was the original intent of our founding fathers. To wit:

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure." - Jefferson

So.
I take offense when people laugh off a notion our founding fathers took deadly serious.

That 95% of our country is too docile to ever consider such a notion is all the more reason the 5% need their guns.

Our founding fathers knew very well (and if i could think of how to come by the quote i would just post it) that revolution was not something undertaken by the masses ... it was a select few that were capable of understanding the need for such a thing, and an even smaller few willing to actively participate.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun · February 2008

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I would just like to point out that while this sounds absurd to so many ... it was the original intent of our founding fathers. To wit:

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure." - Jefferson

So.
I take offense when people laugh off a notion our founding fathers took deadly serious.

That 95% of our country is too docile to ever consider such a notion is all the more reason the 5% need their guns.

Our founding fathers knew very well (and if i could think of how to come by the quote i would just post it) that revolution was not something undertaken by the masses ... it was a select few that were capable of understanding the need for such a thing, and an even smaller few willing to actively participate.

i totally agree. gun rights are more about defending oneself from the government than defending from criminals. the entire gun control issue ignores this completely.

the biggest problem i have with gun control is the fact that they must be registered. that defeats the whole purpose of having one.

rebornFixer · February 2008

The very title of this thread misses the whole point ... It should read "What we can do about violence in America". When you seek to focus the discussion on guns, one aspect of the issue, and inanimate objects at that, you are kinda missing the boat. Sure, let's take all the guns away. You'd still be left with a bunch of seriously disturbed folks looking to kill. Why not look at mental health and the social basis of violence in general?

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2008

reborncareerist wrote:

The very title of this thread misses the whole point ... It should read "What we can do about violence in America". When you seek to focus the discussion on guns, one aspect of the issue, and inanimate objects at that, you are kinda missing the boat. Sure, let's take all the guns away. You'd still be left with a bunch of seriously disturbed folks looking to kill. Why not look at mental health and the social basis of violence in general?

Look,
don't try to start talking logic in here.
You're making far too much sense for some of these folks.

Besides, its easy to take away guns.
Its hard to focus on the root causes of systemic violence.

And this is America, it hasn't wanted to undertake anything hard since it put a man on the moon.

godpt3 · February 2008

MrSmith wrote:

to kill nazis, invaders, the government when they inevitably go into police state mode, possibly martians, stuff like that.

so in other words, you're agreeing with me that there's no LEGITIMATE reason to own an assault rifle.

What would it take to talk about guns

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