What would it take to talk about guns

Vedderlution_Baby

Simple question. We all have our stance on this issue. What I want to know is what would have to happen for people on both sides of the line to sit down in a civil fashion and try to figure out solutions to the rampant violence problem we're (america) is having with guns. School shootings, mall shootings, amish shootings, court house shootings...theyve all happened. What's it going to take for us to sort this out without people yelling bout their rights being taken away, leaving them at the feet of criminals and communists alike, and people actually wanting to take away all the guns. Solutions need to happen.

Commy

gun violence is a product of our society.

We can deal with the symtoms or the disease.

Nevermind

Shoot the person who says no to guns.

DriftingByTheStorm

America is in about a half dozen crises ... gun crisis not even making honorable mention on the list.

Culture crisis.
Government crisis.
Citizen awareness crisis.
Value crisis.

are the ones that stand out to me the most.

How bout we work on the real root causes of violence, and not restrict the very thing that defends the innocent in them?

Gun control will never succeed in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, anymore than drug laws currently keep drugs out of the hands of addicts.

Now ask yourself, how much money are we willing to throw away as a nation trying to address a problem that can't be solved?

My best friend just bought a 6 round shot gun, in preparation for the potential upcoming apocalypse.

firstquartermoon

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

America is in about a half dozen crises ... gun crisis not even making honorable mention on the list.

Culture crisis.
Government crisis.
Citizen awareness crisis.
Value crisis.

are the ones that stand out to me the most.

How bout we work on the real root causes of violence, and not restrict the very thing that defends the innocent in them?

Gun control will never succeed in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, anymore than drug laws currently keep drugs out of the hands of addicts.

Now ask yourself, how much money are we willing to throw away as a nation trying to address a problem that can't be solved?

My best friend just bought a 6 round shot gun, in preparation for the potential upcoming apocalypse.

How is our culture in crisis?

Yes, I'll agree to the government and awareness ones.

What is our value crisis? That we don't agree with the way you chose to live?

Vedderlution_Baby

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

America is in about a half dozen crises ... gun crisis not even making honorable mention on the list.

Culture crisis.
Government crisis.
Citizen awareness crisis.
Value crisis.

are the ones that stand out to me the most.

How bout we work on the real root causes of violence, and not restrict the very thing that defends the innocent in them?

Gun control will never succeed in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, anymore than drug laws currently keep drugs out of the hands of addicts.

Now ask yourself, how much money are we willing to throw away as a nation trying to address a problem that can't be solved?

My best friend just bought a 6 round shot gun, in preparation for the potential upcoming apocalypse.

So what, we ignore it and act like it's not happening? Can't be solved? Or too fucking lazy and stubborn to solve it.

jeffbr

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

What's it going to take for us to sort this out without people yelling bout their rights being taken away,

You act as if taking away someone's rights is trivial and tangential to the issue when in fact is is the fundamental consideration. You bet your ass I'll yell anytime anyone tries.

Vedderlution_Baby

jeffbr wrote:

You act as if taking away someone's rights is trivial and tangential to the issue when in fact is is the fundamental consideration. You bet your ass I'll yell anytime anyone tries.

Who said anything about taking away someone's right? did you read my original post? The one that said we need to get past "take away all guns!" and "stop taking away all my rights!" There has to be some kind of solution that both parties can agree on that actually does something.

DriftingByTheStorm

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Who said anything about taking away someone's right? did you read my original post? The one that said we need to get past "take away all guns!" and "stop taking away all my rights!" There has to be some kind of solution that both parties can agree on that actually does something.

You mean "compromise" our rights?

No thank you.

If you are so freaked out, why don't you just carry a gun and get empowered?

If not, maybe you should quit yelling about "all these shootings scare me so bad".

Vedderlution_Baby

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

You mean "compromise" our rights?

No thank you.

If you are so freaked out, why don't you just carry a gun and get empowered?

If not, maybe you should quit yelling about "all these shootings scare me so bad".

So there's nothing that could happen to make you think there's a problem?

DriftingByTheStorm

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

So there's nothing that could happen to make you think there's a problem?

I think your analysis of the problem is comparable to a woman crossing the street and being hit by a drunk driver in a Cadillac.

She then goes on to sue the entire automotive industry, on the grounds that the Cadillac has too big of an engine and goes too fast and therefore all carmakers should be forced to restrict their vehicles' engines to smaller than the Cadillac's and govern their top speed to slower as well.

In otherwords,
I think it fails to address the real problem, and penalizes the wrong people as well.

Vedderlution_Baby

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I think your analysis of the problem is comparable to a woman crossing the street and being hit by a drunk driver in a Cadillac.

She then goes on to sue the entire automotive industry, on the grounds that the Cadillac has too big of an engine and goes too fast and therefore all carmakers should be forced to restrict their vehicles' engines to smaller than the Cadillac's and govern their top speed to slower as well.

In otherwords,
I think it misses the point.

Well I don't hear about many kids driving down the hallways of a school killing people. By the way, your analogy is stupid. It has nothing to do with guns, how is it is to get one, nor does it have anything to do with the number of times the specific subject has been purposely, and solely utilized for violence.

And you want to talk about missing something? The first shit you posted was the same old shit about how gun control doesn't work when I didn't even fucking ask that.

DriftingByTheStorm

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Well I don't hear about many kids driving down the hallways of a school killing people. By the way, your analogy is stupid. It has nothing to do with guns, how is it is to get one, nor does it have anything to do with the number of times the specific subject has been purposely, and solely utilized for violence.

And you want to talk about missing something? The first shit you posted was the same old shit about how gun control doesn't work when I didn't even fucking ask that.

So far i haven't heard you propose anything, so how is anyone to know what you're talking about?

Are you asking the pearl jam message board to come up with the solution to the "gun problem"?

Or are you actualy going to suggest a specific strategy for addressing your perceived problem and see what we think of it?

So far you've just asked for a discussion but laid down rigid terms for what can NOT be discussed.

Your thread would indicate you want to restrict gun ownership rights, and yet you specificaly say not to whine about losing our rights.

So what are we to discuss?

Specificaly?

Vedderlution_Baby

I asked what people think would have to happen for discussion about solutions to start. That's all I asked. You were the one to start talking about how gun control never works and how your friend just bought a new gun. I bet if your boy Ron had been elected then shot you'd be singing a different story.


I didn't propose any solutions because this isn't a thread about that.

DriftingByTheStorm

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

I bet if your boy Ron had been elected then shot you'd be singing a different story.

Yeah.

I'll spell it out for you, too:

C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y



Now.
For there to be an intelligent discussion about what to do about the gun problem, you would probably need to start with an intelligent solution.

Since you don't have one, and none of us likely does.
Not much will happen except just what you say.
Some will want to restrict the right to arms.
And others will be vehmenently opposed.

In YOUR opinion,
what would be a good starting point for addressing this issue?
What do YOU think is appropriate?

Vedderlution_Baby

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Yeah.

I'll spell it out for you, too:

C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y



Now.
For there to be an intelligent discussion about what to do about the gun problem, you would probably need to start with an intelligent solution.

Since you don't have one, and none of us likely does.
Not much will happen except just what you say.
Some will want to restrict the right to arms.
And others will be vehmenently opposed.

In YOUR opinion,
what would be a good starting point for addressing this issue?
What do YOU think is appropriate?

Jesus christ. Are you going to answer the fucking question I asked or just keep asking the same shit you have been. You know, that shit that has nothing to do with what I asked. Let me guess. You only understand caps. Here.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR BOTH PARTIES TO SIT DOWN IN A CIVIL MANNER AND DISCUSS SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS THAT INVOLVE GUNS.


If you think nothing could happen, that nothing could ever change what we already have, that's fine. Just say that.

DriftingByTheStorm

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Jesus christ. Are you going to answer the fucking question I asked or just keep asking the same shit you have been. You know, that shit that has nothing to do with what I asked. Let me guess. You only understand caps. Here.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR BOTH PARTIES TO SIT DOWN IN A CIVIL MANNER AND DISCUSS SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS THAT INVOLVE GUNS.


If you think nothing could happen, that nothing could ever change what we already have, that's fine. Just say that.

Well, you may want to start with just reading at least the first sentence of my response which you quoted. It seems to be a direct answer.

Beyond that, "[...]answer the fucking question[...]" typicaly not the best way to get to a civil discussion.


Try Again:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Now.
For there to be an intelligent discussion about what to do about the gun problem, you would probably need to start with an intelligent solution.

Since you don't have one, and none of us likely does.
Not much will happen except just what you say.
Some will want to restrict the right to arms.
And others will be vehmenently opposed.

In YOUR opinion,
what would be a good starting point for addressing this issue?
What do YOU think is appropriate?

Vedderlution_Baby

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Well, you may want to start with just reading at least the first sentence of my response which you quoted. It seems to be a direct answer.

Beyond that, "[...]answer the fucking question[...]" typicaly not the best way to get to a civil discussion.


Try Again:

Come on. You know we wouldn't start with an intelligent solution. We are an reactive nation. We live our lives, ignoring telling signs, something bad happens, we react (most of the time too extreme) and that's what happens.

And about that civil discussion. That's why I'm not a politician. I'd be on the floor screaming out explicit shit. If I ran for president my campaign commercial would consist of "Vote for me. If you don't then fuck you". and that'd be the clean version of it.

Nevermind

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Jesus christ. Are you going to answer the fucking question I asked or just keep asking the same shit you have been. You know, that shit that has nothing to do with what I asked. Let me guess. You only understand caps. Here.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR BOTH PARTIES TO SIT DOWN IN A CIVIL MANNER AND DISCUSS SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS THAT INVOLVE GUNS.


If you think nothing could happen, that nothing could ever change what we already have, that's fine. Just say that.

THEY CANT SIT DOWN TOGETHER BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY IN BED TOGHTETHER.

Vedderlution_Baby

Nevermind wrote:

THEY CANT SIT DOWN TOGETHER BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY IN BED TOGHTETHER.

Nice use of caps! I approve




(In other news, any idea when we will be getting the "delete thread" button. this went nowhere but downhill)

Nevermind

Whats wrong with being in bed together. Sorry about the caps, I read your post and thought thats how we were typpnig tonight