What would it take to talk about guns

Vedderlution_BabyVedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
edited February 2008 in A Moving Train
Simple question. We all have our stance on this issue. What I want to know is what would have to happen for people on both sides of the line to sit down in a civil fashion and try to figure out solutions to the rampant violence problem we're (america) is having with guns. School shootings, mall shootings, amish shootings, court house shootings...theyve all happened. What's it going to take for us to sort this out without people yelling bout their rights being taken away, leaving them at the feet of criminals and communists alike, and people actually wanting to take away all the guns. Solutions need to happen.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    gun violence is a product of our society.

    We can deal with the symtoms or the disease.
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    Shoot the person who says no to guns.
  • America is in about a half dozen crises ... gun crisis not even making honorable mention on the list.

    Culture crisis.
    Government crisis.
    Citizen awareness crisis.
    Value crisis.

    are the ones that stand out to me the most.

    How bout we work on the real root causes of violence, and not restrict the very thing that defends the innocent in them?

    Gun control will never succeed in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, anymore than drug laws currently keep drugs out of the hands of addicts.

    Now ask yourself, how much money are we willing to throw away as a nation trying to address a problem that can't be solved?

    My best friend just bought a 6 round shot gun, in preparation for the potential upcoming apocalypse.
    :D
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • America is in about a half dozen crises ... gun crisis not even making honorable mention on the list.

    Culture crisis.
    Government crisis.
    Citizen awareness crisis.
    Value crisis.

    are the ones that stand out to me the most.

    How bout we work on the real root causes of violence, and not restrict the very thing that defends the innocent in them?

    Gun control will never succeed in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, anymore than drug laws currently keep drugs out of the hands of addicts.

    Now ask yourself, how much money are we willing to throw away as a nation trying to address a problem that can't be solved?

    My best friend just bought a 6 round shot gun, in preparation for the potential upcoming apocalypse.
    :D

    How is our culture in crisis?

    Yes, I'll agree to the government and awareness ones.

    What is our value crisis? That we don't agree with the way you chose to live?
  • America is in about a half dozen crises ... gun crisis not even making honorable mention on the list.

    Culture crisis.
    Government crisis.
    Citizen awareness crisis.
    Value crisis.

    are the ones that stand out to me the most.

    How bout we work on the real root causes of violence, and not restrict the very thing that defends the innocent in them?

    Gun control will never succeed in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, anymore than drug laws currently keep drugs out of the hands of addicts.

    Now ask yourself, how much money are we willing to throw away as a nation trying to address a problem that can't be solved?

    My best friend just bought a 6 round shot gun, in preparation for the potential upcoming apocalypse.
    :D


    So what, we ignore it and act like it's not happening? Can't be solved? Or too fucking lazy and stubborn to solve it.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    What's it going to take for us to sort this out without people yelling bout their rights being taken away,

    You act as if taking away someone's rights is trivial and tangential to the issue when in fact is is the fundamental consideration. You bet your ass I'll yell anytime anyone tries.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • jeffbr wrote:
    You act as if taking away someone's rights is trivial and tangential to the issue when in fact is is the fundamental consideration. You bet your ass I'll yell anytime anyone tries.



    Who said anything about taking away someone's right? did you read my original post? The one that said we need to get past "take away all guns!" and "stop taking away all my rights!" There has to be some kind of solution that both parties can agree on that actually does something.
  • Who said anything about taking away someone's right? did you read my original post? The one that said we need to get past "take away all guns!" and "stop taking away all my rights!" There has to be some kind of solution that both parties can agree on that actually does something.

    You mean "compromise" our rights?

    No thank you.

    If you are so freaked out, why don't you just carry a gun and get empowered?

    If not, maybe you should quit yelling about "all these shootings scare me so bad".

    ;)
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • You mean "compromise" our rights?

    No thank you.

    If you are so freaked out, why don't you just carry a gun and get empowered?

    If not, maybe you should quit yelling about "all these shootings scare me so bad".

    ;)


    So there's nothing that could happen to make you think there's a problem?
  • So there's nothing that could happen to make you think there's a problem?

    I think your analysis of the problem is comparable to a woman crossing the street and being hit by a drunk driver in a Cadillac.

    She then goes on to sue the entire automotive industry, on the grounds that the Cadillac has too big of an engine and goes too fast and therefore all carmakers should be forced to restrict their vehicles' engines to smaller than the Cadillac's and govern their top speed to slower as well.

    In otherwords,
    I think it fails to address the real problem, and penalizes the wrong people as well.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • I think your analysis of the problem is comparable to a woman crossing the street and being hit by a drunk driver in a Cadillac.

    She then goes on to sue the entire automotive industry, on the grounds that the Cadillac has too big of an engine and goes too fast and therefore all carmakers should be forced to restrict their vehicles' engines to smaller than the Cadillac's and govern their top speed to slower as well.

    In otherwords,
    I think it misses the point.


    Well I don't hear about many kids driving down the hallways of a school killing people. By the way, your analogy is stupid. It has nothing to do with guns, how is it is to get one, nor does it have anything to do with the number of times the specific subject has been purposely, and solely utilized for violence.

    And you want to talk about missing something? The first shit you posted was the same old shit about how gun control doesn't work when I didn't even fucking ask that.
  • Well I don't hear about many kids driving down the hallways of a school killing people. By the way, your analogy is stupid. It has nothing to do with guns, how is it is to get one, nor does it have anything to do with the number of times the specific subject has been purposely, and solely utilized for violence.

    And you want to talk about missing something? The first shit you posted was the same old shit about how gun control doesn't work when I didn't even fucking ask that.

    So far i haven't heard you propose anything, so how is anyone to know what you're talking about?

    Are you asking the pearl jam message board to come up with the solution to the "gun problem"?

    Or are you actualy going to suggest a specific strategy for addressing your perceived problem and see what we think of it?

    So far you've just asked for a discussion but laid down rigid terms for what can NOT be discussed.

    Your thread would indicate you want to restrict gun ownership rights, and yet you specificaly say not to whine about losing our rights.

    So what are we to discuss?

    Specificaly?
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • I asked what people think would have to happen for discussion about solutions to start. That's all I asked. You were the one to start talking about how gun control never works and how your friend just bought a new gun. I bet if your boy Ron had been elected then shot you'd be singing a different story.


    I didn't propose any solutions because this isn't a thread about that.
  • I bet if your boy Ron had been elected then shot you'd be singing a different story.


    Yeah.

    I'll spell it out for you, too:

    C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y



    Now.
    For there to be an intelligent discussion about what to do about the gun problem, you would probably need to start with an intelligent solution.

    Since you don't have one, and none of us likely does.
    Not much will happen except just what you say.
    Some will want to restrict the right to arms.
    And others will be vehmenently opposed.

    In YOUR opinion,
    what would be a good starting point for addressing this issue?
    What do YOU think is appropriate?
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Yeah.

    I'll spell it out for you, too:

    C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y



    Now.
    For there to be an intelligent discussion about what to do about the gun problem, you would probably need to start with an intelligent solution.

    Since you don't have one, and none of us likely does.
    Not much will happen except just what you say.
    Some will want to restrict the right to arms.
    And others will be vehmenently opposed.

    In YOUR opinion,
    what would be a good starting point for addressing this issue?
    What do YOU think is appropriate?



    Jesus christ. Are you going to answer the fucking question I asked or just keep asking the same shit you have been. You know, that shit that has nothing to do with what I asked. Let me guess. You only understand caps. Here.

    WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR BOTH PARTIES TO SIT DOWN IN A CIVIL MANNER AND DISCUSS SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS THAT INVOLVE GUNS.


    If you think nothing could happen, that nothing could ever change what we already have, that's fine. Just say that.
  • Jesus christ. Are you going to answer the fucking question I asked or just keep asking the same shit you have been. You know, that shit that has nothing to do with what I asked. Let me guess. You only understand caps. Here.

    WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR BOTH PARTIES TO SIT DOWN IN A CIVIL MANNER AND DISCUSS SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS THAT INVOLVE GUNS.


    If you think nothing could happen, that nothing could ever change what we already have, that's fine. Just say that.


    Well, you may want to start with just reading at least the first sentence of my response which you quoted. It seems to be a direct answer.

    Beyond that, "[...]answer the fucking question[...]" typicaly not the best way to get to a civil discussion.
    ;)

    Try Again:
    Now.
    For there to be an intelligent discussion about what to do about the gun problem, you would probably need to start with an intelligent solution.

    Since you don't have one, and none of us likely does.
    Not much will happen except just what you say.
    Some will want to restrict the right to arms.
    And others will be vehmenently opposed.

    In YOUR opinion,
    what would be a good starting point for addressing this issue?
    What do YOU think is appropriate?
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Well, you may want to start with just reading at least the first sentence of my response which you quoted. It seems to be a direct answer.

    Beyond that, "[...]answer the fucking question[...]" typicaly not the best way to get to a civil discussion.
    ;)

    Try Again:



    Come on. You know we wouldn't start with an intelligent solution. We are an reactive nation. We live our lives, ignoring telling signs, something bad happens, we react (most of the time too extreme) and that's what happens.

    And about that civil discussion. That's why I'm not a politician. I'd be on the floor screaming out explicit shit. If I ran for president my campaign commercial would consist of "Vote for me. If you don't then fuck you". and that'd be the clean version of it.
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    Jesus christ. Are you going to answer the fucking question I asked or just keep asking the same shit you have been. You know, that shit that has nothing to do with what I asked. Let me guess. You only understand caps. Here.

    WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR BOTH PARTIES TO SIT DOWN IN A CIVIL MANNER AND DISCUSS SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS THAT INVOLVE GUNS.


    If you think nothing could happen, that nothing could ever change what we already have, that's fine. Just say that.
    THEY CANT SIT DOWN TOGETHER BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY IN BED TOGHTETHER.
  • Nevermind wrote:
    THEY CANT SIT DOWN TOGETHER BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY IN BED TOGHTETHER.



    Nice use of caps! I approve




    (In other news, any idea when we will be getting the "delete thread" button. this went nowhere but downhill)
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    Whats wrong with being in bed together. Sorry about the caps, I read your post and thought thats how we were typpnig tonight
  • Nevermind wrote:
    Whats wrong with being in bed together. Sorry about the caps, I read your post and thought thats how we were typpnig tonight


    Haha, no prob. That was a stab at drifting. I just realize you can't talk about guns at this place.


    Clarify when you say they're in bed together. Guns and politicians, Guns and americans....something else...?
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    Haha, no prob. That was a stab at drifting. I just realize you can't talk about guns at this place.


    Clarify when you say they're in bed together. Guns and politicians, Guns and americans....something else...?
    I really dont knwo. I was told im too serious so i decided to get drunk as fuck and start posting. What i meant was the repub's and democrats are fucking each other and making money.
  • Nevermind wrote:
    I really dont knwo. I was told im too serious so i decided to get drunk as fuck and start posting. What i meant was the repub's and democrats are fucking each other and making money.



    Oh yea! I totally agree with you there. Don't even get me started on that shit. Drunk as fuck is the only good was to post! It's fucking fun. And you always have fun!
  • jeffbr wrote:
    You act as if taking away someone's rights is trivial and tangential to the issue when in fact is is the fundamental consideration. You bet your ass I'll yell anytime anyone tries.

    The paradox is that the right to bear arms actually limits personal freedoms-living in fear is not living in freedom. I'm just happy that I can live in a country like Australia which has taken steps to avoid becoming lilke America.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    Some will want to restrict the right to arms.

    School shootings seem to happen a lot in the US. Here in Europe there have been 5 maybe 6 shool shootings in the last 20 years. There have been at least 5 school shootings in the US the last 2 years.

    That is a problem. You have people who want to ban guns entirely. I don't see how that would work. But there are also people who want to have stricter rules, so that not every psycho can go to a story and buy a gun. They want background checks, perhaps exams or training etc.

    That doesn't take away your right to have a gun. It doesn't even restrict it.

    To it seems that with all the people yelling to ban guns and all the people screaming it's their right to own guns, people can't hear common sense anymore.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • I have never understood the response of some people to gun control. There obviously has to be some restrictions on an individuals freedoms if we are to maintain some form of civilised society. How is restricting a citizens access to firearms any different to limiting the speed that they can drive vehicles, the age at which they can purchase alcohol or their rights to inject certain drugs into their own body?

    I know that it is written into the constitution in America that its citizens have the right to bear arms, but surely if there is a problem with gun violence... which by all acounts there appears to be, steps need to be taken to fix it.

    It will not be the entire solution, but maybe a good compromise would be to limit access to the types and numbers of weapons available (beyond what is already done). Maybe it is just a cultural difference, but I cannot understand the non-issue that this is in America.

    Its absurd- before the year is out we all know that there will be another round of these mass shootings for us to discuss. I wonder how long the same arguments against gun control can be used in the face of this seemingly perpetual violence?
  • i like guns. dont have any, but want to be able to buy one if i want.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I hate guns with a passion but I do not want the government being the only ones to carry them.
  • how could they ever control guns anyway??? It seems like Gestapo practices of going door to door would be the only way. In my state you don't have to register guns that you have already owned prior to all the laws that passed a few years ago regarding purchasing handguns. There's no waiting period for rifles either.

    There are millions of guns in homes across the US that have no paper trail.

    Where I'm from people trade pistols and rifles like we trade posters here.

    It would be impossible to outlaw guns. So that makes education the best solution.
    the Minions
  • godpt3godpt3 Posts: 1,020
    My father was a hunter back in the days, and I live in Dodge City, Kan., so I understand completely the gun heritage. But my question has always been, what do you need an assault rifle for??? You don't hunt deer with a 50 cal machine gun. You vaporize them. The object of hunting is to leave as few holes in the prey as possible so you can harvest the meat. What legitimate reason does ANYONE have for owning a fucking machine gun???



    And if I remember my high school government class, didn't the Supreme Court rule in like the 19030s that a "well regulated" militia referred to the National Guard, not private citizens???
    "If all those sweet, young things were laid end to end, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised."
    —Dorothy Parker

    http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
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