"We the People,..." are the terrorists

RolandTD20Kdrummer
RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
edited December 2008 in A Moving Train
What do you guys make of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFBvN4hj6LE&feature=related
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.

http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

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Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    Police state.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    It's a police state, just not a very brutal one at this point. It could definitely become brutal if we're not conscious of it and act rationally against it. We need to work on a sensible, well-thought-out plan to do that.

    What we DON'T need to do is let fear mongers like Alex Jones get us all pumped up and angry so that we act IRrationally and dig ourselves in an even deeper hole than we already are. We don't need to enter a propaganda war like he has.
  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    What do you guys make of this?

    2 cops who went to far, a woman proven rightly innocent and Alex Jones making money off the fear of others.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    jimed14 wrote:
    2 cops who went to far, a woman proven rightly innocent and Alex Jones making money off the fear of others.
    That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

    The cops I become enraged at, even though it was more than 8 years ago. The clown trying to use that 8 year old footage as a scare tactic for something bigger, meh.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    jimed14 wrote:
    2 cops who went to far, a woman proven rightly innocent and Alex Jones making money off the fear of others.


    Where are they getting this training and mentality from to behave like this is the question.

    That's the crux.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Where are they getting this training and mentality from to behave like this is the question.

    That's the crux.
    Who knows, it was more than 8 years ago. The world is vastly different now than it was then. How is an 8 year old police video relevant? This was all pre-9/11.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Who knows, it was more than 8 years ago. The world is vastly different now than it was then. How is an 8 year old police video relevant? This was all pre-9/11.


    A couple patriot acts, and a mountain of ill will and resentment, and ongoing media hype, later and you think it's gotten better?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    A couple patriot acts, and a mountain of ill will and resentment, and ongoing media hype, later and you think it's gotten better?
    Oh, and two wars...don't forget about the two ongoing wars.

    Did I say that it has gotten better?
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Oh, and two wars...don't forget about the two ongoing wars.

    Did I say that it has gotten better?

    relevant then... It's clearly relevant.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    relevant then... It's clearly relevant.
    I still don't think a police video of two ass hole cops more than 8 years ago abusing the woman's rights, especially since it has gone and been decided on by a court of law, relevant today.

    Sorry, there are much more relevant issues to tackle today than this woman who clearly had her rights violated and the jury of her peers agreed with her.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    aNiMaL wrote:
    I still don't think a police video of two ass hole cops more than 8 years ago abusing the woman's rights, especially since it has gone and been decided on by a court of law, relevant today.

    Sorry, there are much more relevant issues to tackle today than this woman who clearly had her rights violated and the jury of her peers agreed with her.

    It's bigger than that. Did you notice how they evaluated what was inside her car?

    This is not something simply dismissed as just two a-hole cops 8 years ago

    It's clearly a current issue facing society more so now than ever before.

    anyone can see that reality
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    It's bigger than that. Did you notice how they evaluated what was inside her car?

    This is not something simply dismissed as just two a-hole cops 8 years ago

    It's clearly a current issue facing society more so now than ever before.

    anyone can see that reality
    I agree with you - those two cops were WAY out of line and they enraged me to watch them riffle through that woman's belongings and accuse her of obstructing of justice or refusing arrest. I agree with you about all of that. Where we differ, is this case has long since been decided in a court of law by a jury or her peers. Give me something more recent to show that this pattern of abuse of power by local law enforcement agencies is more rampant than ever before, and then I will go down that road with you about police brutality.
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    I hate cops along with the rest of you. I am from Tacoma where the chief of police shot and killed his wife and then himself in front of their 2 children in a shopping center parking lot because she was trying to leave him and his controlling, abusive, self righteous self. I hate the power trip that a lot of cops have when they are welding pepper spray and a badge.

    During the WTO riots in Seattle I was ready to head north on I-5 just to confront the piece of shit cops who were clearly drunk with power that night.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    aNiMaL wrote:
    I still don't think a police video of two ass hole cops more than 8 years ago abusing the woman's rights, especially since it has gone and been decided on by a court of law, relevant today.

    Sorry, there are much more relevant issues to tackle today than this woman who clearly had her rights violated and the jury of her peers agreed with her.
    The point is that it's not just two asshole cops...they're TRAINED to do that stuff. Cops are trained to scam you into giving consent to searches, waving your 5th amendment rights, etc. It's not an isolated case. I think it's still relevant because it shows that the laws we have nowadays make it so much easier for cops/fbi/whoever to get away with that stuff. If that happened this year, that woman's case could've ended differently. It's an increasing problem. Alex Jones was, as usual, just scrounging for any example he could find to use for the video to make it more dramatic...that doesn't make his point invalid.
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Saturnal wrote:
    The point is that it's not just two asshole cops...they're TRAINED to do that stuff. Cops are trained to scam you into giving consent to searches, waving your 5th amendment rights, etc. It's not an isolated case. I think it's still relevant because it shows that the laws we have nowadays make it so much easier for cops/fbi/whoever to get away with that stuff. If that happened this year, that woman's case could've ended differently. It's an increasing problem. Alex Jones was, as usual, just scrounging for any example he could find to use for the video to make it more dramatic...that doesn't make his point invalid.
    That is a well thought out statement and i agree, it is a problem. I just think there was probably more recent footage to discuss. but yes, on the whole of cops drunk with power, i agree, it is a problem.

    However, to claim that they are trained that way, is there any evidence to back that claim up? That is what we should be attacking is the training of the officers. Where is that document?
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    aNiMaL wrote:
    That is a well thought out statement and i agree, it is a problem. I just think there was probably more recent footage to discuss. but yes, on the whole of cops drunk with power, i agree, it is a problem.

    However, to claim that they are trained that way, is there any evidence to back that claim up? That is what we should be attacking is the training of the officers. Where is that document?
    You just saw the evidence. Watch some more videos like it, and look at the process those cops go through...it's methodical, not random. Next time you get pulled over, pay attention. See if the cop asks you "do you know why I pulled you over?". There's a reason they always ask that...there's a method to the questions they ask. See what happens if they ask you to step out of the car and you don't close the door behind you.

    I don't have any documents, but cops are definitely trained to use their instincts when something smells bad to them....they're trained on how to justify probable cause. They're trained on how to get consent on searches. They're just trained in such a way that looks ok on paper. Their training tells them "oh I can get this person to give up their 5th amendment rights by doing this, this, or this...once I do that, probable cause is much easier to justify...or if I can't get probable cause, maybe I can get them to consent to a search without realizing it"...etc. etc. It looks good on paper, but the actual application of it is much different as most videos like this will show. If the training wasn't meant to be applied in the way it clearly is all the time, then they'd revise it.
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Saturnal wrote:
    You just saw the evidence. Watch some more videos like it, and look at the process those cops go through...it's methodical, not random. Next time you get pulled over, pay attention. See if the cop asks you "do you know why I pulled you over?". There's a reason they always ask that...there's a method to the questions they ask. See what happens if they ask you to step out of the car and you don't close the door behind you.

    I don't have any documents, but cops are definitely trained to use their instincts when something smells bad to them....they're trained on how to justify probable cause. They're trained on how to get consent on searches. They're just trained in such a way that looks ok on paper. Their training tells them "oh I can get this person to give up their 5th amendment rights by doing this, this, or this...once I do that, probable cause is much easier to justify...or if I can't get probable cause, maybe I can get them to consent to a search without realizing it"...etc. etc. It looks good on paper, but the actual application of it is much different as most videos like this will show. If the training wasn't meant to be applied in the way it clearly is all the time, then they'd revise it.
    I have been pulled over numerous times in my life and have never had my car searched. This video of two asshole cops is not that proof that their training is such.

    Again, i am all for rallying against asshole cops and the old boys network that protects them. Just give me something more to sink my teeth into other than an 8 year old video.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    aNiMaL wrote:
    I have been pulled over numerous times in my life and have never had my car searched. This video of two asshole cops is not that proof that their training is such.

    Again, i am all for rallying against asshole cops and the old boys network that protects them. Just give me something more to sink my teeth into other than an 8 year old video.
    Just go on youtube and search...there's a bunch out there. Cops always ask the same general questions in the same general order. They're almost never required to tell you that you're free to say no to a search, free to NOT give them your name or any information about yourself, etc. They use their training to trick people.

    You're lucky to have never been treated badly by the police. That doesn't mean your experience is common and what was shown on that video isn't common. It's certainly not the first video of police pulling that kind of crap. Search and see.
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Saturnal wrote:
    Just go on youtube and search...there's a bunch out there. Cops always ask the same general questions in the same general order. They're almost never required to tell you that you're free to say no to a search, free to NOT give them your name or any information about yourself, etc. They use their training to trick people.

    You're lucky to have never been treated badly by the police. That doesn't mean your experience is common and what was shown on that video isn't common. It's certainly not the first video of police pulling that kind of crap. Search and see.
    That woman was passing through a "check point," not being pulled over. What the check point was there for, it's validity, and all that are unknown.

    Fair or not, there is a cat and mouse game for sure that police play in hopes that people do not know their rights. I do not believe it is the police officers job to inform us of those rights as much as it is our job to know our rights. I do think the issue is better preparedness for the common citizens so they know what police can and cannot do. I think that stems from being raised in a society where we are taught that all cops are to be trusted and that they only get the "bad guys." It is that mentality that harms us in these cases more than anything.
  • MichaelMcKevin
    MichaelMcKevin Posts: 1,161
    Cops go too far all the time. I was involved in a police brutality incident that made National News. I was beaten up by 3 cops for rushing the field at an NCAA football game. People everywhere were rushing the field and most police were letting it go. When i ran, I got tackled to the ground by 3 officers, held there, and as I laid on my stomach, cuffed on the ground, a ~240 lb officer came over and delivered three blows to my upper back/lower neck area when I had already cooperated. Fuck the police.
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