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"We the People,..." are the terrorists

RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
edited December 2008 in A Moving Train
What do you guys make of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFBvN4hj6LE&feature=related
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.

http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

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Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    Police state.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    It's a police state, just not a very brutal one at this point. It could definitely become brutal if we're not conscious of it and act rationally against it. We need to work on a sensible, well-thought-out plan to do that.

    What we DON'T need to do is let fear mongers like Alex Jones get us all pumped up and angry so that we act IRrationally and dig ourselves in an even deeper hole than we already are. We don't need to enter a propaganda war like he has.
  • jimed14jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    What do you guys make of this?

    2 cops who went to far, a woman proven rightly innocent and Alex Jones making money off the fear of others.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    jimed14 wrote:
    2 cops who went to far, a woman proven rightly innocent and Alex Jones making money off the fear of others.
    That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

    The cops I become enraged at, even though it was more than 8 years ago. The clown trying to use that 8 year old footage as a scare tactic for something bigger, meh.
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    jimed14 wrote:
    2 cops who went to far, a woman proven rightly innocent and Alex Jones making money off the fear of others.


    Where are they getting this training and mentality from to behave like this is the question.

    That's the crux.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Where are they getting this training and mentality from to behave like this is the question.

    That's the crux.
    Who knows, it was more than 8 years ago. The world is vastly different now than it was then. How is an 8 year old police video relevant? This was all pre-9/11.
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Who knows, it was more than 8 years ago. The world is vastly different now than it was then. How is an 8 year old police video relevant? This was all pre-9/11.


    A couple patriot acts, and a mountain of ill will and resentment, and ongoing media hype, later and you think it's gotten better?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    A couple patriot acts, and a mountain of ill will and resentment, and ongoing media hype, later and you think it's gotten better?
    Oh, and two wars...don't forget about the two ongoing wars.

    Did I say that it has gotten better?
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Oh, and two wars...don't forget about the two ongoing wars.

    Did I say that it has gotten better?

    relevant then... It's clearly relevant.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    relevant then... It's clearly relevant.
    I still don't think a police video of two ass hole cops more than 8 years ago abusing the woman's rights, especially since it has gone and been decided on by a court of law, relevant today.

    Sorry, there are much more relevant issues to tackle today than this woman who clearly had her rights violated and the jury of her peers agreed with her.
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    aNiMaL wrote:
    I still don't think a police video of two ass hole cops more than 8 years ago abusing the woman's rights, especially since it has gone and been decided on by a court of law, relevant today.

    Sorry, there are much more relevant issues to tackle today than this woman who clearly had her rights violated and the jury of her peers agreed with her.

    It's bigger than that. Did you notice how they evaluated what was inside her car?

    This is not something simply dismissed as just two a-hole cops 8 years ago

    It's clearly a current issue facing society more so now than ever before.

    anyone can see that reality
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    It's bigger than that. Did you notice how they evaluated what was inside her car?

    This is not something simply dismissed as just two a-hole cops 8 years ago

    It's clearly a current issue facing society more so now than ever before.

    anyone can see that reality
    I agree with you - those two cops were WAY out of line and they enraged me to watch them riffle through that woman's belongings and accuse her of obstructing of justice or refusing arrest. I agree with you about all of that. Where we differ, is this case has long since been decided in a court of law by a jury or her peers. Give me something more recent to show that this pattern of abuse of power by local law enforcement agencies is more rampant than ever before, and then I will go down that road with you about police brutality.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    I hate cops along with the rest of you. I am from Tacoma where the chief of police shot and killed his wife and then himself in front of their 2 children in a shopping center parking lot because she was trying to leave him and his controlling, abusive, self righteous self. I hate the power trip that a lot of cops have when they are welding pepper spray and a badge.

    During the WTO riots in Seattle I was ready to head north on I-5 just to confront the piece of shit cops who were clearly drunk with power that night.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    aNiMaL wrote:
    I still don't think a police video of two ass hole cops more than 8 years ago abusing the woman's rights, especially since it has gone and been decided on by a court of law, relevant today.

    Sorry, there are much more relevant issues to tackle today than this woman who clearly had her rights violated and the jury of her peers agreed with her.
    The point is that it's not just two asshole cops...they're TRAINED to do that stuff. Cops are trained to scam you into giving consent to searches, waving your 5th amendment rights, etc. It's not an isolated case. I think it's still relevant because it shows that the laws we have nowadays make it so much easier for cops/fbi/whoever to get away with that stuff. If that happened this year, that woman's case could've ended differently. It's an increasing problem. Alex Jones was, as usual, just scrounging for any example he could find to use for the video to make it more dramatic...that doesn't make his point invalid.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Saturnal wrote:
    The point is that it's not just two asshole cops...they're TRAINED to do that stuff. Cops are trained to scam you into giving consent to searches, waving your 5th amendment rights, etc. It's not an isolated case. I think it's still relevant because it shows that the laws we have nowadays make it so much easier for cops/fbi/whoever to get away with that stuff. If that happened this year, that woman's case could've ended differently. It's an increasing problem. Alex Jones was, as usual, just scrounging for any example he could find to use for the video to make it more dramatic...that doesn't make his point invalid.
    That is a well thought out statement and i agree, it is a problem. I just think there was probably more recent footage to discuss. but yes, on the whole of cops drunk with power, i agree, it is a problem.

    However, to claim that they are trained that way, is there any evidence to back that claim up? That is what we should be attacking is the training of the officers. Where is that document?
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    aNiMaL wrote:
    That is a well thought out statement and i agree, it is a problem. I just think there was probably more recent footage to discuss. but yes, on the whole of cops drunk with power, i agree, it is a problem.

    However, to claim that they are trained that way, is there any evidence to back that claim up? That is what we should be attacking is the training of the officers. Where is that document?
    You just saw the evidence. Watch some more videos like it, and look at the process those cops go through...it's methodical, not random. Next time you get pulled over, pay attention. See if the cop asks you "do you know why I pulled you over?". There's a reason they always ask that...there's a method to the questions they ask. See what happens if they ask you to step out of the car and you don't close the door behind you.

    I don't have any documents, but cops are definitely trained to use their instincts when something smells bad to them....they're trained on how to justify probable cause. They're trained on how to get consent on searches. They're just trained in such a way that looks ok on paper. Their training tells them "oh I can get this person to give up their 5th amendment rights by doing this, this, or this...once I do that, probable cause is much easier to justify...or if I can't get probable cause, maybe I can get them to consent to a search without realizing it"...etc. etc. It looks good on paper, but the actual application of it is much different as most videos like this will show. If the training wasn't meant to be applied in the way it clearly is all the time, then they'd revise it.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Saturnal wrote:
    You just saw the evidence. Watch some more videos like it, and look at the process those cops go through...it's methodical, not random. Next time you get pulled over, pay attention. See if the cop asks you "do you know why I pulled you over?". There's a reason they always ask that...there's a method to the questions they ask. See what happens if they ask you to step out of the car and you don't close the door behind you.

    I don't have any documents, but cops are definitely trained to use their instincts when something smells bad to them....they're trained on how to justify probable cause. They're trained on how to get consent on searches. They're just trained in such a way that looks ok on paper. Their training tells them "oh I can get this person to give up their 5th amendment rights by doing this, this, or this...once I do that, probable cause is much easier to justify...or if I can't get probable cause, maybe I can get them to consent to a search without realizing it"...etc. etc. It looks good on paper, but the actual application of it is much different as most videos like this will show. If the training wasn't meant to be applied in the way it clearly is all the time, then they'd revise it.
    I have been pulled over numerous times in my life and have never had my car searched. This video of two asshole cops is not that proof that their training is such.

    Again, i am all for rallying against asshole cops and the old boys network that protects them. Just give me something more to sink my teeth into other than an 8 year old video.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    aNiMaL wrote:
    I have been pulled over numerous times in my life and have never had my car searched. This video of two asshole cops is not that proof that their training is such.

    Again, i am all for rallying against asshole cops and the old boys network that protects them. Just give me something more to sink my teeth into other than an 8 year old video.
    Just go on youtube and search...there's a bunch out there. Cops always ask the same general questions in the same general order. They're almost never required to tell you that you're free to say no to a search, free to NOT give them your name or any information about yourself, etc. They use their training to trick people.

    You're lucky to have never been treated badly by the police. That doesn't mean your experience is common and what was shown on that video isn't common. It's certainly not the first video of police pulling that kind of crap. Search and see.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Saturnal wrote:
    Just go on youtube and search...there's a bunch out there. Cops always ask the same general questions in the same general order. They're almost never required to tell you that you're free to say no to a search, free to NOT give them your name or any information about yourself, etc. They use their training to trick people.

    You're lucky to have never been treated badly by the police. That doesn't mean your experience is common and what was shown on that video isn't common. It's certainly not the first video of police pulling that kind of crap. Search and see.
    That woman was passing through a "check point," not being pulled over. What the check point was there for, it's validity, and all that are unknown.

    Fair or not, there is a cat and mouse game for sure that police play in hopes that people do not know their rights. I do not believe it is the police officers job to inform us of those rights as much as it is our job to know our rights. I do think the issue is better preparedness for the common citizens so they know what police can and cannot do. I think that stems from being raised in a society where we are taught that all cops are to be trusted and that they only get the "bad guys." It is that mentality that harms us in these cases more than anything.
  • MichaelMcKevinMichaelMcKevin Posts: 1,161
    Cops go too far all the time. I was involved in a police brutality incident that made National News. I was beaten up by 3 cops for rushing the field at an NCAA football game. People everywhere were rushing the field and most police were letting it go. When i ran, I got tackled to the ground by 3 officers, held there, and as I laid on my stomach, cuffed on the ground, a ~240 lb officer came over and delivered three blows to my upper back/lower neck area when I had already cooperated. Fuck the police.
    Camden I '06, Camden II '06, Bonnaroo '08, Camden I '08, Camden II '08, Philly Spectrum II/III/IV '09, MSG I '10, MSG II '10, Made In America '12, Wrigley '13, Brooklyn II '13, Philly I '13, Philly II '13, ...
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    GivenToCarve wrote:
    Cops go too far all the time. I was involved in a police brutality incident that made National News. I was beaten up by 3 cops for rushing the field at an NCAA football game. People everywhere were rushing the field and most police were letting it go. When i ran, I got tackled to the ground by 3 officers, held there, and as I laid on my stomach, cuffed on the ground, a ~240 lb officer came over and delivered three blows to my upper back/lower neck area when I had already cooperated. Fuck the police.
    Yeah, that is a fucked up story. i agree the three blows were way over the top considering if you were already in cuffs.

    Power hungry, title chaser's who find it hard to invoke control over their normal life take on the job as police so they can feel like a real man with the badge and gun. Fuck those guys!!
  • MichaelMcKevinMichaelMcKevin Posts: 1,161
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Yeah, that is a fucked up story. i agree the three blows were way over the top considering if you were already in cuffs.

    Power hungry, title chaser's who find it hard to invoke control over their normal life take on the job as police so they can feel like a real man with the badge and gun. Fuck those guys!!

    Here are a few videos:

    During
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYtuAjguFg&feature=related

    After:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD9rFJV_jyw

    *Any video with the punches has been taken off the web. That officer was cleared of any wrongdoing.
    Camden I '06, Camden II '06, Bonnaroo '08, Camden I '08, Camden II '08, Philly Spectrum II/III/IV '09, MSG I '10, MSG II '10, Made In America '12, Wrigley '13, Brooklyn II '13, Philly I '13, Philly II '13, ...
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    GivenToCarve wrote:
    Here are a few videos:

    During
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYtuAjguFg&feature=related

    After:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD9rFJV_jyw

    *Any video with the punches has been taken off the web. That officer was cleared of any wrongdoing.
    Is that you the guy in the white shirt and white hat who got SLAMMED to the ground in the "during" video?
  • MichaelMcKevinMichaelMcKevin Posts: 1,161
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Is that you the guy in the white shirt and white hat who got SLAMMED to the ground in the "during" video?

    No I'm in the purple shirt getting taken down by 3 cops in tan shirts (prior to the 4th officer who comes up and lays into me). That's also me in the 2nd video.
    Camden I '06, Camden II '06, Bonnaroo '08, Camden I '08, Camden II '08, Philly Spectrum II/III/IV '09, MSG I '10, MSG II '10, Made In America '12, Wrigley '13, Brooklyn II '13, Philly I '13, Philly II '13, ...
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    GivenToCarve wrote:
    No I'm in the purple shirt getting taken down by 3 cops in tan shirts (prior to the 4th officer who comes up and lays into me). That's also me in the 2nd video.
    You could've at least given us your sexy rock star look dude. Jeez. ;)

    And i'm sorry that happened to you. That's disgusting.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    GivenToCarve wrote:
    No I'm in the purple shirt getting taken down by 3 cops in tan shirts (prior to the 4th officer who comes up and lays into me). That's also me in the 2nd video.
    Oh man, that sucks. What assholes!!!
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    GivenToCarve wrote:
    No I'm in the purple shirt getting taken down by 3 cops in tan shirts (prior to the 4th officer who comes up and lays into me). That's also me in the 2nd video.
    That's bullshit. Fucking cops.


    did they charge you with anything? why is it illegal to rush the field when the game is over?
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Commy wrote:
    That's bullshit. Fucking cops.


    did they charge you with anything? why is it illegal to rush the field when the game is over?
    Well, technically that does constitute trespassing. That doesn't justify what they did to him, but he was originally in the wrong.

    It sucks in the mob mentality of rushing the field after a victory, because most people will get away with it as they cannot arrest everyone. they just should have been more civil with you (or the OP).
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    aNiMaL wrote:
    I have been pulled over numerous times in my life and have never had my car searched. This video of two asshole cops is not that proof that their training is such.

    Again, i am all for rallying against asshole cops and the old boys network that protects them. Just give me something more to sink my teeth into other than an 8 year old video.

    I think what you just said is chunky enough to sink your teeth into...

    There are asshole cops, and we should define that term first for clarity's sake, to me it's any cop who abuses his power. That includes minor incidents as well, not just police brutality. I know they are only human and everyone makes mistakes but their duty is to serve and protect you, not to abuse you or ignore your rights. We trust these people with power and serious responsibilities.

    You also mentioned the old boys network protecting them. You agree it should be fought. Isn't that the issue here?

    OK, the video's eight years old. GivenToCarve when did this happen to you? Damn that was brutal, sorry you had to experience that. Anyway, I'm sure we can find more recent videos, youtube's full of them, from countries all over the world.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • MichaelMcKevinMichaelMcKevin Posts: 1,161
    Commy wrote:
    That's bullshit. Fucking cops.


    did they charge you with anything? why is it illegal to rush the field when the game is over?

    The asshole who uncuffed me and I had a brief conversation that went like this:

    Cop: "Son, you're very lucky I'm letting you go. You could be charged with a felony"
    Me: "Felony...???"
    Cop: "You were resisting arrest"
    Me: [appalled]"And I was being arrested for?...nevermind. Thank you, I just want to go back to my house"


    Every officer attended a meeting before the game. They were specifically told not to lay a hand on any student. I repeat "lay a hand"... I guess body-slamming, tackling, punching, shoving faces into the ground, etc. don't fall under "laying a hand".
    Camden I '06, Camden II '06, Bonnaroo '08, Camden I '08, Camden II '08, Philly Spectrum II/III/IV '09, MSG I '10, MSG II '10, Made In America '12, Wrigley '13, Brooklyn II '13, Philly I '13, Philly II '13, ...
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