Anyone ever stepped out of the Church?

surferdude · December 2006

Inky wrote:

Well I think Judaism isn't a belief in the first place...
from Wikipedia:
"What makes a person Jewish?

According to traditional Jewish Law, someone is considered to be a Jew if he or she was born of a Jewish mother or converted in accord with Jewish Law. American Reform Judaism and British Liberal Judaism accept the child of one Jewish parent (father or mother) as Jewish if the parents raise the child as a Jew by Progressive standards. All mainstream forms of Judaism today are open to sincere converts.

Judaism maintains that one born Jewish or one who has converted to Judaism retains his or her status as a Jew forever. One who converts to another religion or is an atheist is considered to be a Jew not in good religious standing. How religious one is, in this sense, is only important in one's status in Jewish law. For example, a person denying the Jewish principles of faith may be considered a heretic, while still considered Jewish."

Christian belief isn't hereditary, you become a Christian when you're baptised. Most of the time you cou can't decide if you want to be baptised or not so it may happen that you don't believe in god even though you're baptised. Then you may be called a fake Christian. Well...you also could be called a fake christian if you mislabel yourself as one even though you actually aren't one as you said...I guess we need an accurate definition of a fake christian...
I can't say anything to the atheism-agnosticism thing because all the atheists I know were raised as Christians...

Thanks for the work you've done. But I'm a little confused why you so easily accept two different "standards of burdens" regarding being Jewish as compared to being Christian.

Uncle Leo · December 2006

CorporateWhore wrote:

Christians in name only.

Is this an example?---Sure they believe in God and Jesus. They even go to Church. But when asked whether non-believers go to hell, they get wishy washy. A real Christian recognizes, and proudly acknowleges without worrying about being "PC", that non-believers are looking at eternal damnation.

Or is it something a bit less edgy--like those people that only go to Church at Christmas and Easter?

Inky · December 2006

surferdude wrote:

Thanks for the work you've done. But I'm a little confused why you so easily accept two different "standards of burdens" regarding being Jewish as compared to being Christian.

standards of burdens?

Well, I wanted to dicuss about the term "fake Christian" first and then reference it to other religions or nationalities...

Inky · December 2006

Uncle Leo wrote:

Is this an example?---Sure they believe in God and Jesus. They even go to Church. But when asked whether non-believers go to hell, they get wishy washy. A real Christian recognizes, and proudly acknowleges without worrying about being "PC", that non-believers are looking at eternal damnation.

Or is it something a bit less edgy--like those people that only go to Church at Christmas and Easter?

What? :eek:

Yeah, I've also thought about that....

DixieN · December 2006

humanlight wrote:

My question is what has made you feel so strongly about no longer continuing on your spiritual journey. I for one, was born and raised Catholic. Do I think they have it right...naw. Do I think any human has it right. No. So, I think it is best to learn all I can, and sometimes that means attending church. I think spirituality takes a lifetime to understand, and I question it everyday of my life. But, I do not believe I will ever have the answer, and think if God came down today, he would laugh at what we have made out of religion.

Some people step out of a church in order to continue on a spiritual journey. I do believe that you are right--if God exists and were to manifest itself more clearly today, it might laugh (if it had such a capacity) at what we have made out of our many religions. Well, either that, or cry.

DixieN · December 2006

Inky wrote:

I guess a "fake christian" is a baptised person who doesn't believe in god.
I think your comparisons are rather poor. Jewry has also something to do with your Nationality whereas Christianity hasn't got anything to do with it. Atheism is totally different...you don't really belong to anything when you're an atheist, you just describe yourself as one.

And you of course can't extend that to nationalities since you of course can't say that every American is a Republican or a Democrat or whatever whereas every "real" Christian believes in god and Jesus.

A baptised person who doesn't believe in god is probably an atheist, not a "fake Christian." I am a baptised person who doesn't know whether there is a god or not. Either there is, and everything you see is part of it--including you and me--or there is no god, but I have no proof either way. In no way am I a "fake Christian." The only person who could be a "fake Christian" would be a person who actually had some other faith--or none at all--but, pretended to be Christian. I think there are some people like this around--mostly people who don't really believe--but, who feel like they should in order to perhaps avoid hell.

I think a really good teaching from the Bible is "judge not." Not for fear that you'll be judged; but, maybe out of a sense of having achieved a little growth in life's journey. When I was a believer, I was urged to judge harshly those who were not believers or who believed differently than I. When I became an unbeliever, I judged those who believed differently than I harshly. Now that I have come to a place where I realize belief, non-belief, etc., are ALL just forms of belief, I try not to be so judgmental. Not because I fear being judged/punished; but, because I feel diminished as a person.

Also, if you are an atheist, you do not typically belong to an organized body; however, you do belong to a group of people who share your beliefs and with whom you do resonate.

soulsinging · December 2006

casper leblanc wrote:

Dude, you and your sinfull lifestyle... you have no chance in hell - pun very much intended - of making that list.

i was baptised dude. im gold, doesnt matter how much i sin from now until i die as long as i feel bad about it

qtegirl · December 2006

I think a person can be raised in a specific religion, as I was Catholic. But I don't consider myself catholic because I don't believe in the principles. That Jesus is the son of God, that Mary was a Virgin, etc.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is that, a "real Catholic" is one that comes to accept the dogma of the church as truth and faith, for oneself. Not because that's the way you're raised. The same goes for christians in general and other religions.

I guess that's why some people call themselve "born again christians." Because they came to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior as adults.

Inky · December 2006

DixieN wrote:

A baptised person who doesn't believe in god is probably an atheist, not a "fake Christian." I am a baptised person who doesn't know whether there is a god or not. Either there is, and everything you see is part of it--including you and me--or there is no god, but I have no proof either way. In no way am I a "fake Christian." The only person who could be a "fake Christian" would be a person who actually had some other faith--or none at all--but, pretended to be Christian. I think there are some people like this around--mostly people who don't really believe--but, who feel like they should in order to perhaps avoid hell.

Also, if you are an atheist, you do not typically belong to an organized body; however, you do belong to a group of people who share your beliefs and with whom you do resonate.

Okay, you're right about that. But I mean the people who are baptised but for example don't really believe in god. I'm going to a catholic school and we pray everyday before the classes begin. About a quarter of my class goes to church more than just at easter and Christmas and maybe actually thinks about what they say while they're praying. The others just speak the learned-by-heart prayers even though they're, in my opinion, no real Christians anymore. I'm raised catholic but I would call myself an atheist because I've got too many doubts at the moment, so I don't pray with the others and started not going to the communion anymore.
Sorry, I expressed myself the wrong way...

Of course but you call yourself an atheist and if you believe in something different you wouldn't do that anymore so I doubt that there could be a fake atheist.

miller8966 · December 2006

You cant be a fake atheist unless you somehow convert to a religion.

Thank you're not fake...You're saved

Ahnimus · December 2006

I was baptised, I attended church every sunday, I went through "confirmation" and read the bible and shit. Then I said "Fuck you God, you don't exist, this book is full of lies made by men." "Fuck this church and any church that looks like it."

So whatever, I was circumsized at birth too. None of that really means anything, because it's all bullshit, a big batch of fucking bullshit.

citizen_drew · December 2006

casper leblanc wrote:

As in 'undoing' your baptisme (though you can't really 'undo' this, you should be able to)? Stepping out of the Curch is possible in Belgium.

I'm seriously thinking of writing a letter and asking the bisshop to erase my name from their registers. It won't get me anyware or anything, except peace of mind. It's a matter of principles.

I read somewhere they don't really erase you (here in Belgium that is), but they fill in 'renounces his baptical vows'. :rolleyes: Says it all in my opinion.

note: that doesn't mean I blame my parents for baptising me as a child in the first place. Though I will leave my kid the choice.

No casper leblanc,

In my mind that would be about as stupid as this post. But if it makes your head fill better more power to you...;)

Earthgirl · December 2006

what's the point of it? like what do you gain?

kenny olav · December 2006

I was baptized in a lake at my evangelical church's campground in New Hampshire when I was 19. I had already stopped believing in Christianity so it wasn't my idea, and I was semi-coersed into it. Basically, my sister who is 3 years younger than me (and who has always played the game), had already planned on getting baptized by our pastor that summer, and I didn't even know about it until a few days before it was set to happen while we were up there at the camp for a week. Actually, I probably had heard about it, but I just didn't care to remember it. Anyway...when it came up at camp, I could tell that my mom would be very uncomfotable if my sister was baptized and I, being 3 years older, was not. She reiterated "you don't have to" to me but I knew life would be somewhat miserable for her, and consequently for me, if I didn't do it. So I thought of how I could make it the most beneficial for me, because I have never been good at bullshitting - if I wasn't comfortable during the baptism, it would be evident to everyone at my church who would be watching it. Because its not just getting dunked in the lake - no - you have to give a little speech afterward explaining how you have accepted Jesus as your savior. So I decided to say something that would sound good to Christians, but wasn't a lie. Pretty much my exact words were "I will dedicate my life to following the teachings of Jesus". It wasn't lie because I never said I would follow ALL of his teachings, but certainly there are some I agree with, so everything is cool. Plus, there was something kinda spiritual and cool about being dunked in a lake while wearing your clothes and being blessed. The pastor was someone I knew since I was a young kid and he was a pretty cool guy - one of the few people I had respect for in our church. Otherwise, I would have been less comfortable. But as it was, it was an interesting life experience... nothing too special... but now I can say I took the full trip thru Christianity.

casper leblanc · December 2006

Earthgirl wrote:

what's the point of it? like what do you gain?

It's a personal statement, peace of mind, a gain of (personal) freedom.

But just for arguments sake, let's look a bit further: if you're a member of a group, a society or a fraternity or what not, and they act and behave in a way you cannot find yourself in, what do you do? You quit. Same thing here, only it's about the Catholic Church, an institution that is much bigger and more powerful and has more influence on human behaviour than most other organisations.

citizen_drew wrote:

In my mind that would be about as stupid as this post.

And why is that?

casper leblanc · December 2006

Like I said in the beginning, there is another reason I'm doing this.

I've been thinking about this for a long time, but only now do I decide to really do it. Why? Because if all goes well, I'll be a father this summer. And I want to do this before my child is born. A clean slate, you see.

If my kid wants to go on a spiritual journey, that will be his or hers choice. But I don't want to influence its choice by being catholic myself on record - without actually being catholic.

So if you add al of that up, I have a couple of good reasons to do this. Sure, they are very personal ones. But isn't everything concerning religion supposed to be a very personal thing?

harmless_little_f*** · December 2006

I step out of my church at about 2 every Sunday afternoon, but only after I've had a cup of tea, a biscuit, and a cheese and ham sandwhich.

bookmuse · December 2006

casper leblanc wrote:

Like I said in the beginning, there is another reason I'm doing this.

I've been thinking about this for a long time, but only now do I decide to really do it. Why? Because if all goes well, I'll be a father this summer. And I want to do this before my child is born. A clean slate, you see.

If my kid wants to go on a spiritual journey, that will be his or hers choice. But I don't want to influence its choice by being catholic myself on record - without actually being catholic.

So if you add al of that up, I have a couple of good reasons to do this. Sure, they are very personal ones. But isn't everything concerning religion supposed to be a very personal thing?

This is your life and I say yes, you can choose out. Did you really ever choose in? Your parents had you baptised as a child because that is what they believed in. The choice was theirs not yours.

My dad is 60 years old and was raised a Jehovah Witness and baptised as a teenager to please his parents. His whole life, he has tried to live this life because that his how his parents and brothers live. He has not attended church for the past 18 years. He has now met a woman and actually attended her church a few times (which is a big no-no because it is not a witness church). He is so worried if his brothers find out they will never talk to him again because he is baptised a Jehovah Witness (which I find to be a little cultish). How sad is that - I actually find it ironic how Christians are so clicky. He made me go to his church when I was younger and at his house. My mom made me go to a baptist church. When I was 15 - I refused to attend any longer, either of them. I find it sad that my dad has not realized that organized religion and spirituality are seperate things and that he lives his life to please others at the expense of living his life.

Again, this is your life and as long as you teach your kid the fundamentals of living as a good person (not speaking religion here), ie not killing or stealing, being kind and helpful to others, work ethics, and being true to themselves, respecting differences, etc. - that is what is most important. Your time, guidance and love is what a child really needs.

FinsburyParkCarrots · December 2006

I am a lapsed Catholic/atheist, until I talk to an Ulster protestant. Then I lose the plot again.

CorporateWhore · December 2006

In my view, you live whatever faith you believe in. Therefore, if you have no faith, you should live that belief. Additionally, it does not matter if a piece of paper says you are Catholic: you do not live as a Catholic. Therefore, there's no need to fool around with symbolic gestures of having a "clean slate." You had a clean slate the moment you stopped believing in God.

Anyone ever stepped out of the Church?

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