I was baptised, I attended church every sunday, I went through "confirmation" and read the bible and shit. Then I said "Fuck you God, you don't exist, this book is full of lies made by men." "Fuck this church and any church that looks like it."
So whatever, I was circumsized at birth too. None of that really means anything, because it's all bullshit, a big batch of fucking bullshit.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
As in 'undoing' your baptisme (though you can't really 'undo' this, you should be able to)? Stepping out of the Curch is possible in Belgium.
I'm seriously thinking of writing a letter and asking the bisshop to erase my name from their registers. It won't get me anyware or anything, except peace of mind. It's a matter of principles.
I read somewhere they don't really erase you (here in Belgium that is), but they fill in 'renounces his baptical vows'. :rolleyes: Says it all in my opinion.
note: that doesn't mean I blame my parents for baptising me as a child in the first place. Though I will leave my kid the choice.
No casper leblanc,
In my mind that would be about as stupid as this post. But if it makes your head fill better more power to you...;)
I was baptized in a lake at my evangelical church's campground in New Hampshire when I was 19. I had already stopped believing in Christianity so it wasn't my idea, and I was semi-coersed into it. Basically, my sister who is 3 years younger than me (and who has always played the game), had already planned on getting baptized by our pastor that summer, and I didn't even know about it until a few days before it was set to happen while we were up there at the camp for a week. Actually, I probably had heard about it, but I just didn't care to remember it. Anyway...when it came up at camp, I could tell that my mom would be very uncomfotable if my sister was baptized and I, being 3 years older, was not. She reiterated "you don't have to" to me but I knew life would be somewhat miserable for her, and consequently for me, if I didn't do it. So I thought of how I could make it the most beneficial for me, because I have never been good at bullshitting - if I wasn't comfortable during the baptism, it would be evident to everyone at my church who would be watching it. Because its not just getting dunked in the lake - no - you have to give a little speech afterward explaining how you have accepted Jesus as your savior. So I decided to say something that would sound good to Christians, but wasn't a lie. Pretty much my exact words were "I will dedicate my life to following the teachings of Jesus". It wasn't lie because I never said I would follow ALL of his teachings, but certainly there are some I agree with, so everything is cool. Plus, there was something kinda spiritual and cool about being dunked in a lake while wearing your clothes and being blessed. The pastor was someone I knew since I was a young kid and he was a pretty cool guy - one of the few people I had respect for in our church. Otherwise, I would have been less comfortable. But as it was, it was an interesting life experience... nothing too special... but now I can say I took the full trip thru Christianity.
It's a personal statement, peace of mind, a gain of (personal) freedom.
But just for arguments sake, let's look a bit further: if you're a member of a group, a society or a fraternity or what not, and they act and behave in a way you cannot find yourself in, what do you do? You quit. Same thing here, only it's about the Catholic Church, an institution that is much bigger and more powerful and has more influence on human behaviour than most other organisations.
Like I said in the beginning, there is another reason I'm doing this.
I've been thinking about this for a long time, but only now do I decide to really do it. Why? Because if all goes well, I'll be a father this summer. And I want to do this before my child is born. A clean slate, you see.
If my kid wants to go on a spiritual journey, that will be his or hers choice. But I don't want to influence its choice by being catholic myself on record - without actually being catholic.
So if you add al of that up, I have a couple of good reasons to do this. Sure, they are very personal ones. But isn't everything concerning religion supposed to be a very personal thing?
I step out of my church at about 2 every Sunday afternoon, but only after I've had a cup of tea, a biscuit, and a cheese and ham sandwhich.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Like I said in the beginning, there is another reason I'm doing this.
I've been thinking about this for a long time, but only now do I decide to really do it. Why? Because if all goes well, I'll be a father this summer. And I want to do this before my child is born. A clean slate, you see.
If my kid wants to go on a spiritual journey, that will be his or hers choice. But I don't want to influence its choice by being catholic myself on record - without actually being catholic.
So if you add al of that up, I have a couple of good reasons to do this. Sure, they are very personal ones. But isn't everything concerning religion supposed to be a very personal thing?
This is your life and I say yes, you can choose out. Did you really ever choose in? Your parents had you baptised as a child because that is what they believed in. The choice was theirs not yours.
My dad is 60 years old and was raised a Jehovah Witness and baptised as a teenager to please his parents. His whole life, he has tried to live this life because that his how his parents and brothers live. He has not attended church for the past 18 years. He has now met a woman and actually attended her church a few times (which is a big no-no because it is not a witness church). He is so worried if his brothers find out they will never talk to him again because he is baptised a Jehovah Witness (which I find to be a little cultish). How sad is that - I actually find it ironic how Christians are so clicky. He made me go to his church when I was younger and at his house. My mom made me go to a baptist church. When I was 15 - I refused to attend any longer, either of them. I find it sad that my dad has not realized that organized religion and spirituality are seperate things and that he lives his life to please others at the expense of living his life.
Again, this is your life and as long as you teach your kid the fundamentals of living as a good person (not speaking religion here), ie not killing or stealing, being kind and helpful to others, work ethics, and being true to themselves, respecting differences, etc. - that is what is most important. Your time, guidance and love is what a child really needs.
"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes" ~ M Kuhn
In my view, you live whatever faith you believe in. Therefore, if you have no faith, you should live that belief. Additionally, it does not matter if a piece of paper says you are Catholic: you do not live as a Catholic. Therefore, there's no need to fool around with symbolic gestures of having a "clean slate." You had a clean slate the moment you stopped believing in God.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
for one, anyone christian who celebrates christmas...seeing how this is a pagan holiday and steeped in paganism...well, so is every other holiday for that matter
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
for one, anyone christian who celebrates christmas...seeing how this is a pagan holiday and steeped in paganism...well, so is every other holiday for that matter
So you can only celebrate Christmas if you are a pagan? Did you celebrate it? Are you a pagan? I don't think the pagans ever called it Christmas. Nor did they go to church (like so many people do) to acknowledge Christ's birth.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
for one, anyone christian who celebrates christmas...seeing how this is a pagan holiday and steeped in paganism...well, so is every other holiday for that matter
I always think it's a bit ridiculous when people play this 'card': 'Ooh, Christians, did you know Christmas was pagan? You're all hypocrites!' The Celtic Christians in Britain (and elsewhere) did hijack a few Pagan festivals, yes, and creatively adapted them to become Christian festivals for their own worship. How is that wrong? It's adaptation baby.
It's like saying Pearl Jam are being hypocrites for not playing Medieval Lute Ballads (for which the stringed 'guitar' was originally invented). Rock? That's 'fake' lute music!
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
To the original poster, i guess if its something you feel strongly about then go take your name off the register, i'm unaware of anything in regards to catholic upbringings, i was bought up in a Salvation Army church so we are not baptized, and i'm sure i'll probably still go to heaven ( but don't tell the catholics that!)
To further postings, to add my 2 cents, as i was raised in a Christian household, and like most kids was made to go to Sunday school, and church and other typical salvation programs, i now as an adult although want to believe in God, i want to believe in the after life, i want to believe in the things that i was taught as a kid, life like some people gets in my way, i wish for a faith like my mother, however the point i'm going to make is that i don't consider myself a Christian as i do not lead a Christian lifestyle. I often have unmarital sex, I'm sure i sin nearly every day, and i would not like to give those true loving Christians who try hard to live by example ( although we all know we are humans and NO human is perfect, even the nicest kindest "Christian" ) a bad name, and i get really annoyed by people who claim to be such people and are so obviously not.
However i do my best to live my life like something in the end i would be proud of, and thats all i can do.
I'm belgian too and I think I will also step out of the church.
I'm atheist and don't really believe in any kind of religion.
If the church makes some money with me, then I will step out.
There are so many other (better) things to do with the taxes we pay...
2006: Antwerp, Paris
2007: Copenhagen, Werchter
2009: Rotterdam, London
2010: MSG, Arras, Werchter
2012: Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin
2014: Amsterdam, Stockholm
I'm the father of a little two weeks girl.
I don't want her to be baptized... but her grandparents want to... I know they would be really dissapointed if she isn't.
I don't know what to decide...
2006: Antwerp, Paris
2007: Copenhagen, Werchter
2009: Rotterdam, London
2010: MSG, Arras, Werchter
2012: Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin
2014: Amsterdam, Stockholm
This is your life and I say yes, you can choose out. Did you really ever choose in? Your parents had you baptised as a child because that is what they believed in. The choice was theirs not yours.
My dad is 60 years old and was raised a Jehovah Witness and baptised as a teenager to please his parents. His whole life, he has tried to live this life because that his how his parents and brothers live. He has not attended church for the past 18 years. He has now met a woman and actually attended her church a few times (which is a big no-no because it is not a witness church). He is so worried if his brothers find out they will never talk to him again because he is baptised a Jehovah Witness (which I find to be a little cultish). How sad is that - I actually find it ironic how Christians are so clicky. He made me go to his church when I was younger and at his house. My mom made me go to a baptist church. When I was 15 - I refused to attend any longer, either of them. I find it sad that my dad has not realized that organized religion and spirituality are seperate things and that he lives his life to please others at the expense of living his life.
Again, this is your life and as long as you teach your kid the fundamentals of living as a good person (not speaking religion here), ie not killing or stealing, being kind and helpful to others, work ethics, and being true to themselves, respecting differences, etc. - that is what is most important. Your time, guidance and love is what a child really needs.
I'm the father of a little two weeks girl.
I don't want her to be baptized... but her grandparents want to... I know they would be really dissapointed if she isn't.
I don't know what to decide...
Ah... though one. Tradition can be a bitch. Do you marry in church or do you baptise your child because your parents want it? Tough call, but I also think the above post is valuable as a guideline in your decision. My thoughts? You are the parent, you are responsible before others, so you make that decision. I can understand though if you wouldn't want to dissapoint your parents, but in the end, I think it's your call.
I talked about my decision with my mother first. Not that I was gonna change my mind - I don't think so anyway - but I did want to hear her point of view. And she's fine with it, or so she says anyway.
I'm the father of a little two weeks girl.
I don't want her to be baptized... but her grandparents want to... I know they would be really dissapointed if she isn't.
I don't know what to decide...
Wait until your daughter can decide for herself, no matter how the grandparents react to your decision, the fact is that you are giving your daughter a choice, something she will respect you for.
To the original poster, no I haven't, but I have been seriously debating this for over a year and a half. My problem is that I do not know how to go about it, and the local parish preist is an ass, the thought of either having to talk to him or him actually assisting me in doing this is not forseeable.
Anyone actually know how this is done?
~*~*~*~*PROUD EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0026~*~*~*~*
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
This is your life and I say yes, you can choose out. Did you really ever choose in? Your parents had you baptised as a child because that is what they believed in. The choice was theirs not yours.
My dad is 60 years old and was raised a Jehovah Witness and baptised as a teenager to please his parents. His whole life, he has tried to live this life because that his how his parents and brothers live. He has not attended church for the past 18 years. He has now met a woman and actually attended her church a few times (which is a big no-no because it is not a witness church). He is so worried if his brothers find out they will never talk to him again because he is baptised a Jehovah Witness (which I find to be a little cultish). How sad is that - I actually find it ironic how Christians are so clicky. He made me go to his church when I was younger and at his house. My mom made me go to a baptist church. When I was 15 - I refused to attend any longer, either of them. I find it sad that my dad has not realized that organized religion and spirituality are seperate things and that he lives his life to please others at the expense of living his life.
Again, this is your life and as long as you teach your kid the fundamentals of living as a good person (not speaking religion here), ie not killing or stealing, being kind and helpful to others, work ethics, and being true to themselves, respecting differences, etc. - that is what is most important. Your time, guidance and love is what a child really needs.
A cult is a religion that is said to be unorthodox or that emphasizes devotion according to prescribed ritual. Many cults follow a living human leader, and often their adherents live in groups apart from the rest of society. The standard for what is orthodox, however, should be God’s Word, and Jehovah’s Witnesses strictly adhere to the Bible. Their worship is a way of life, not a ritual devotion. They neither follow a human nor isolate themselves from the rest of society.
for those that don't believe in the bible, i guess they would view them as a 'cult'
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
this has me worried. i was baptised before i could speak and understand and i dont want an organisation making money off my head without my consent. im going to see about having myself removed from the list...
one subtle difference between judaism and christianity is this:when is the last time you were ambushed in the street by a jew wanting you to convert to judaism? i went to a synagogue a few years back and asked what the line was on conversion and was told that they dont bother, unless someone is converting to marry a Jew it isnt an issue. Oh how I would love it if all the Christian/Islamic religions behaved in the same way...
the amount of times i am going about my business and am stopped impolitely by some bible basher who then attempts to get to the bottom of my agnostic state, whilst telling me my lifestyle means i am going to hell. that hell is a real place...to which i usually reply, and fear is its currency here on earth and hell is on earth as it is, before escaping. Its really sad...some of these people i have known since i was a child and they cant separate spirituality from organised religion at all..
im open minded. a few years back my then boyfriend had a surprise for me. I got back from the reading festival, tired and hungover. About 1am he phones me and wants to talk, says he went to church. and is now a full fledged christian in 24hours. taking Bible lessons...tells me because im not a christian im not a good person...which considering how well he knew me was quite hurtful, and then proceeds to state that i have to go to church with him,, I did, once...and because i refused to collapse and wail and state Jesus was my saviour, despite people in the church physically pushing me to do so (i nearly decked one, so i was asked to leave!) he then decided that in order to stay with him, we would have to get married. so he was duly dumped and is currently one of these market christian convertor machines...its his choice but it really opened my eyes to how manipulative these places are and how much potential danger is in them, despite their claim to holiness. He even started correcting my behaviour. i shdnt listen to certain music (yes, pearl jam included) or swear, and whenever i did so, he d start praying...i really wish i was lying..but im not.
The best one was the guy with the Bibles stating that peadophilia was the devil's way of marking out homosexuals...i called the police and had him removed for his own safety..
im open minded. a few years back my then boyfriend had a surprise for me. I got back from the reading festival, tired and hungover. About 1am he phones me and wants to talk, says he went to church. and is now a full fledged christian in 24hours. taking Bible lessons...tells me because im not a christian im not a good person...which considering how well he knew me was quite hurtful, and then proceeds to state that i have to go to church with him,, I did, once...and because i refused to collapse and wail and state Jesus was my saviour, despite people in the church physically pushing me to do so (i nearly decked one, so i was asked to leave!) he then decided that in order to stay with him, we would have to get married. so he was duly dumped and is currently one of these market christian convertor machines...its his choice but it really opened my eyes to how manipulative these places are and how much potential danger is in them, despite their claim to holiness. He even started correcting my behaviour. i shdnt listen to certain music (yes, pearl jam included) or swear, and whenever i did so, he d start praying...i really wish i was lying..but im not.
Ah crap, he was turned into a total weirdo. On behalf of my faith, I apologise for what some people make it.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I guess a "fake christian" is a baptised person who doesn't believe in god.
But, unless you get baptised as an adult and you know what you're doing, generally, you are baptised 'unwittingly' as a baby and therefore do not believe in god at the time of the ceremony. So, since in that case you had no say over what someone else was imposing on you, would you still be a 'fake' into adulthood if you never took to the religion? You need to make an educated choice before entering into anything and therefore being able to desist from it.
I'm the father of a little two weeks girl.
I don't want her to be baptized... but her grandparents want to... I know they would be really dissapointed if she isn't.
I don't know what to decide...
Julien, I was in the same boat with my daughter. From a staunch catholic family, my mother went on and on about it (and sometimes in a not very nice way). I didn't get her baptised and that caused a lot of friction for a while as she was the first one in the whole family that wasn't baptised. She's 12 now, looked at various religions (as a young girl of her age can), we talked about them and she did say she was happy she hadn't be baptised because she did not like the catholic religion and, if she were to choose one (which she isn't), it would be buddhism. My advice, don't do it to please someone else, even if it means hassles for a while. Bring up your daughter as you see fit in your own little family unit (ie you, wife and daughter).
My uncle stepped out of the church. He lives in Germany and if you're catholic there you'll have to pay taxes...
But don't think that this was the main reason, he's still a sort of hippy who lives in community...He's a great guy...
Beavis : Is this Pearl Jam?
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
Julien, I was in the same boat with my daughter. From a staunch catholic family, my mother went on and on about it (and sometimes in a not very nice way). I didn't get her baptised and that caused a lot of friction for a while as she was the first one in the whole family that wasn't baptised. She's 12 now, looked at various religions (as a young girl of her age can), we talked about them and she did say she was happy she hadn't be baptised because she did not like the catholic religion and, if she were to choose one (which she isn't), it would be buddhism. My advice, don't do it to please someone else, even if it means hassles for a while. Bring up your daughter as you see fit in your own little family unit (ie you, wife and daughter).
But she would be still able to step out if she were catholic.
Beavis : Is this Pearl Jam?
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
I guess I could too, because I am! But I never bothered.....
Just like me. Don't mind being baptised because it as no value for me.
Beavis : Is this Pearl Jam?
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
As in 'undoing' your baptisme (though you can't really 'undo' this, you should be able to)? Stepping out of the Curch is possible in Belgium.
I'm seriously thinking of writing a letter and asking the bisshop to erase my name from their registers. It won't get me anyware or anything, except peace of mind. It's a matter of principles.
I read somewhere they don't really erase you (here in Belgium that is), but they fill in 'renounces his baptical vows'. :rolleyes: Says it all in my opinion.
note: that doesn't mean I blame my parents for baptising me as a child in the first place. Though I will leave my kid the choice.
if i may ask; why the rebellion? you believe what you believe and being on a list somewhere doesn't make a difference. there's something more to your desire to strike out.
if i may ask; why the rebellion? you believe what you believe and being on a list somewhere doesn't make a difference. there's something more to your desire to strike out.
Like I said, it's the principle. Look at it at being in some sort of club or fraternity or whatever. If the club is using rules and ways of life that you don't agree with, then I don't want to be amember of that the club. The Church or any other way of organised religion is not a club I want to be in.
But why bother, right? Yo don't pay them money to get in the club, so who cares? This is where the principle comes in. They don't care if I actually practice Catholicism, but as long as I stay in the register, they get funds based on my headcount (in Belgium anyway). I don't want them to get better on my back. They preach a way of life I don't stand for, so why should I let them collect money on my headcount? I don't.
That's on reason. Other, more important reason is that I'm going to be a dad this Summer. I don't want my child to be influenced in any way. If he/she wants to be religious, fine by me. It's up to him or her and she/he'll get the freedom of choice. But I don't want to set a religious example or influence it by being part of a religion I'm basically not even part of.
I want to start raising my kid with a clean slate and peace of mind. I've thought about stepping out for over a year now, and I always figured 'oh well', but with my new responsabilities coming, I want to do this.
That's basically all I can give you. There's no spiritual reason behind it, cause I'm just not a spiritual person. I don't believe in a god or 'an invisible power'. I believe in nature and (strange as it may sound) in humanity. (Though the latter can be pretty dissappointing at times.) And if someone now comes here and says that both of those are part of religion, then fuck it. They're part of who I am, and that's all that matters to me. I don't need to other religous mumbo jumbo to add to that. It only adds trouble.
That's really all I can give you as far as reasons go...
And here's a queqstion to you: why the word 'rebellion'? Is it a rebellious act to want to live a meaningful life? Why do people keep persisting in the fact that life can only be true and meaningful if religion is involved?
Comments
So whatever, I was circumsized at birth too. None of that really means anything, because it's all bullshit, a big batch of fucking bullshit.
No casper leblanc,
In my mind that would be about as stupid as this post. But if it makes your head fill better more power to you...;)
It's a personal statement, peace of mind, a gain of (personal) freedom.
But just for arguments sake, let's look a bit further: if you're a member of a group, a society or a fraternity or what not, and they act and behave in a way you cannot find yourself in, what do you do? You quit. Same thing here, only it's about the Catholic Church, an institution that is much bigger and more powerful and has more influence on human behaviour than most other organisations.
And why is that?
I've been thinking about this for a long time, but only now do I decide to really do it. Why? Because if all goes well, I'll be a father this summer. And I want to do this before my child is born. A clean slate, you see.
If my kid wants to go on a spiritual journey, that will be his or hers choice. But I don't want to influence its choice by being catholic myself on record - without actually being catholic.
So if you add al of that up, I have a couple of good reasons to do this. Sure, they are very personal ones. But isn't everything concerning religion supposed to be a very personal thing?
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
This is your life and I say yes, you can choose out. Did you really ever choose in? Your parents had you baptised as a child because that is what they believed in. The choice was theirs not yours.
My dad is 60 years old and was raised a Jehovah Witness and baptised as a teenager to please his parents. His whole life, he has tried to live this life because that his how his parents and brothers live. He has not attended church for the past 18 years. He has now met a woman and actually attended her church a few times (which is a big no-no because it is not a witness church). He is so worried if his brothers find out they will never talk to him again because he is baptised a Jehovah Witness (which I find to be a little cultish). How sad is that - I actually find it ironic how Christians are so clicky. He made me go to his church when I was younger and at his house. My mom made me go to a baptist church. When I was 15 - I refused to attend any longer, either of them. I find it sad that my dad has not realized that organized religion and spirituality are seperate things and that he lives his life to please others at the expense of living his life.
Again, this is your life and as long as you teach your kid the fundamentals of living as a good person (not speaking religion here), ie not killing or stealing, being kind and helpful to others, work ethics, and being true to themselves, respecting differences, etc. - that is what is most important. Your time, guidance and love is what a child really needs.
-Enoch Powell
for one, anyone christian who celebrates christmas...seeing how this is a pagan holiday and steeped in paganism...well, so is every other holiday for that matter
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
So you can only celebrate Christmas if you are a pagan? Did you celebrate it? Are you a pagan? I don't think the pagans ever called it Christmas. Nor did they go to church (like so many people do) to acknowledge Christ's birth.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
i think you will burn in hell
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
I always think it's a bit ridiculous when people play this 'card': 'Ooh, Christians, did you know Christmas was pagan? You're all hypocrites!' The Celtic Christians in Britain (and elsewhere) did hijack a few Pagan festivals, yes, and creatively adapted them to become Christian festivals for their own worship. How is that wrong? It's adaptation baby.
It's like saying Pearl Jam are being hypocrites for not playing Medieval Lute Ballads (for which the stringed 'guitar' was originally invented). Rock? That's 'fake' lute music!
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
To further postings, to add my 2 cents, as i was raised in a Christian household, and like most kids was made to go to Sunday school, and church and other typical salvation programs, i now as an adult although want to believe in God, i want to believe in the after life, i want to believe in the things that i was taught as a kid, life like some people gets in my way, i wish for a faith like my mother, however the point i'm going to make is that i don't consider myself a Christian as i do not lead a Christian lifestyle. I often have unmarital sex, I'm sure i sin nearly every day, and i would not like to give those true loving Christians who try hard to live by example ( although we all know we are humans and NO human is perfect, even the nicest kindest "Christian" ) a bad name, and i get really annoyed by people who claim to be such people and are so obviously not.
However i do my best to live my life like something in the end i would be proud of, and thats all i can do.
I'm atheist and don't really believe in any kind of religion.
If the church makes some money with me, then I will step out.
There are so many other (better) things to do with the taxes we pay...
2007: Copenhagen, Werchter
2009: Rotterdam, London
2010: MSG, Arras, Werchter
2012: Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin
2014: Amsterdam, Stockholm
I don't want her to be baptized... but her grandparents want to... I know they would be really dissapointed if she isn't.
I don't know what to decide...
2007: Copenhagen, Werchter
2009: Rotterdam, London
2010: MSG, Arras, Werchter
2012: Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin
2014: Amsterdam, Stockholm
great words, truely
Ah... though one. Tradition can be a bitch. Do you marry in church or do you baptise your child because your parents want it? Tough call, but I also think the above post is valuable as a guideline in your decision. My thoughts? You are the parent, you are responsible before others, so you make that decision. I can understand though if you wouldn't want to dissapoint your parents, but in the end, I think it's your call.
I talked about my decision with my mother first. Not that I was gonna change my mind - I don't think so anyway - but I did want to hear her point of view. And she's fine with it, or so she says anyway.
Wait until your daughter can decide for herself, no matter how the grandparents react to your decision, the fact is that you are giving your daughter a choice, something she will respect you for.
To the original poster, no I haven't, but I have been seriously debating this for over a year and a half. My problem is that I do not know how to go about it, and the local parish preist is an ass, the thought of either having to talk to him or him actually assisting me in doing this is not forseeable.
Anyone actually know how this is done?
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
A cult is a religion that is said to be unorthodox or that emphasizes devotion according to prescribed ritual. Many cults follow a living human leader, and often their adherents live in groups apart from the rest of society. The standard for what is orthodox, however, should be God’s Word, and Jehovah’s Witnesses strictly adhere to the Bible. Their worship is a way of life, not a ritual devotion. They neither follow a human nor isolate themselves from the rest of society.
for those that don't believe in the bible, i guess they would view them as a 'cult'
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
one subtle difference between judaism and christianity is this:when is the last time you were ambushed in the street by a jew wanting you to convert to judaism? i went to a synagogue a few years back and asked what the line was on conversion and was told that they dont bother, unless someone is converting to marry a Jew it isnt an issue. Oh how I would love it if all the Christian/Islamic religions behaved in the same way...
the amount of times i am going about my business and am stopped impolitely by some bible basher who then attempts to get to the bottom of my agnostic state, whilst telling me my lifestyle means i am going to hell. that hell is a real place...to which i usually reply, and fear is its currency here on earth and hell is on earth as it is, before escaping. Its really sad...some of these people i have known since i was a child and they cant separate spirituality from organised religion at all..
im open minded. a few years back my then boyfriend had a surprise for me. I got back from the reading festival, tired and hungover. About 1am he phones me and wants to talk, says he went to church. and is now a full fledged christian in 24hours. taking Bible lessons...tells me because im not a christian im not a good person...which considering how well he knew me was quite hurtful, and then proceeds to state that i have to go to church with him,, I did, once...and because i refused to collapse and wail and state Jesus was my saviour, despite people in the church physically pushing me to do so (i nearly decked one, so i was asked to leave!) he then decided that in order to stay with him, we would have to get married. so he was duly dumped and is currently one of these market christian convertor machines...its his choice but it really opened my eyes to how manipulative these places are and how much potential danger is in them, despite their claim to holiness. He even started correcting my behaviour. i shdnt listen to certain music (yes, pearl jam included) or swear, and whenever i did so, he d start praying...i really wish i was lying..but im not.
The best one was the guy with the Bibles stating that peadophilia was the devil's way of marking out homosexuals...i called the police and had him removed for his own safety..
Ah crap, he was turned into a total weirdo. On behalf of my faith, I apologise for what some people make it.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
But, unless you get baptised as an adult and you know what you're doing, generally, you are baptised 'unwittingly' as a baby and therefore do not believe in god at the time of the ceremony. So, since in that case you had no say over what someone else was imposing on you, would you still be a 'fake' into adulthood if you never took to the religion? You need to make an educated choice before entering into anything and therefore being able to desist from it.
Julien, I was in the same boat with my daughter. From a staunch catholic family, my mother went on and on about it (and sometimes in a not very nice way). I didn't get her baptised and that caused a lot of friction for a while as she was the first one in the whole family that wasn't baptised. She's 12 now, looked at various religions (as a young girl of her age can), we talked about them and she did say she was happy she hadn't be baptised because she did not like the catholic religion and, if she were to choose one (which she isn't), it would be buddhism. My advice, don't do it to please someone else, even if it means hassles for a while. Bring up your daughter as you see fit in your own little family unit (ie you, wife and daughter).
But don't think that this was the main reason, he's still a sort of hippy who lives in community...He's a great guy...
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
if i may ask; why the rebellion? you believe what you believe and being on a list somewhere doesn't make a difference. there's something more to your desire to strike out.
Like I said, it's the principle. Look at it at being in some sort of club or fraternity or whatever. If the club is using rules and ways of life that you don't agree with, then I don't want to be amember of that the club. The Church or any other way of organised religion is not a club I want to be in.
But why bother, right? Yo don't pay them money to get in the club, so who cares? This is where the principle comes in. They don't care if I actually practice Catholicism, but as long as I stay in the register, they get funds based on my headcount (in Belgium anyway). I don't want them to get better on my back. They preach a way of life I don't stand for, so why should I let them collect money on my headcount? I don't.
That's on reason. Other, more important reason is that I'm going to be a dad this Summer. I don't want my child to be influenced in any way. If he/she wants to be religious, fine by me. It's up to him or her and she/he'll get the freedom of choice. But I don't want to set a religious example or influence it by being part of a religion I'm basically not even part of.
I want to start raising my kid with a clean slate and peace of mind. I've thought about stepping out for over a year now, and I always figured 'oh well', but with my new responsabilities coming, I want to do this.
That's basically all I can give you. There's no spiritual reason behind it, cause I'm just not a spiritual person. I don't believe in a god or 'an invisible power'. I believe in nature and (strange as it may sound) in humanity. (Though the latter can be pretty dissappointing at times.) And if someone now comes here and says that both of those are part of religion, then fuck it. They're part of who I am, and that's all that matters to me. I don't need to other religous mumbo jumbo to add to that. It only adds trouble.
That's really all I can give you as far as reasons go...
And here's a queqstion to you: why the word 'rebellion'? Is it a rebellious act to want to live a meaningful life? Why do people keep persisting in the fact that life can only be true and meaningful if religion is involved?