Good long read about conspiracy theories

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2008

soulsinging wrote:

i don't know what socialism or brave new world crap you refer to. the US is a LONG way from socialism and is damn near the world's ONLY hold out with respect to globalization. b]the US has the lowest participation in international initiatives out there.[/b]

Wow.
That's news to me.
WE are the #1 funder of the UN,
we are THE backing for World Bank, IMF, WTO... and we are the worlds reserve currency (or at least we were until just recently, ha ha) ...

And "Free healthcare" is NOT a "long way" from socialism.

It IS socialism.

Duh.

soulsinging · February 2008

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Wow.
That's news to me.
WE are the #1 funder of the UN,
we are THE backing for World Bank, IMF, WTO... and we are the worlds reserve currency (or at least we were until just recently, ha ha) ...

And "Free healthcare" is NOT a "long way" from socialism.

It IS socialism.

Duh.

1. we dont have free healthcare.

2. we pour a lot of money into that stuff, but it's a piss in the bucket out of our total budget, most of which goes into weapons to ensure russia and china would get their asses kicked if they tried to go street to street in america as you seem to fear so much.

3. i've read 1984. it's interesting, but it's also fiction. im not sure you knew that when you read it. for every similarity between the book and real life, i could give you a difference. it proves nothing.

4. you didn't answer the most interesting part of my post, asking what it is exactly that you are afraid of and how the possibility of the collapse of america should be deemed such a novel or fearful event when history is chock full of large empires ruled by elites rising and falling?

5. sexual acceptance is awesome in my book. the more sex i have, the happier i am and i think the happier the world would be. the most pissed off people in the world are also the most sexually frustrated

(islam, fundamentalist christians). i still fail to see what that has to do with naked 6 year olds playing in the streets. are you suggesting sex is a bad thing? you just got so much more lame dude

Rats of Multa · February 2008

ClimberInOz wrote:

Nice read (albeit quickly because I am in a hurry).

I was interested to see the author mention randomness and indirectly chaos. I have often thought that chaos theory might apply to humanity in many different areas (politics, economies, communication and many more).

There would be a PHD in there somewhere.

hmmm,....

one could consider humanity to be Nature's ultimate infinite-variable, delineating the sheer mass of numbers and hence the basic exponents of time, what with each individual representing a totally unique set of psychological factors and conditions, socio-human identity may in fact mark the primary source of Einstein's mathematical short-comings in unifying relativity and quantum physics. just a thought, but often the experimenter accounts for 90%+ of the effects in any test.

...but you were talking about chaos-theory Climber,... any more thoughts??

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2008

soulsinging wrote:

1. we dont have free healthcare.

Uh. You are paying attention, right?
Hillary or Obama will be our next president, yes?
Donkeys out voting Elephants 2 to 1 roughly during primaries? Hillary or Obama. Obama or Hillary. Both pushing "free healthcare" or "universal healthcare" or "socialized medicine"?
Call it what you want. It is governmen subsidized, and heavily at that.

soulsinging wrote:

2. we pour a lot of money into that stuff, but it's a piss in the bucket out of our total budget, most of which goes into weapons to ensure russia and china would get their asses kicked if they tried to go street to street in america as you seem to fear so much.

You may note that if the elite, whom you seem to want to ignore are themselves in admission that their goal is "one world" government, get their way, the world will redistribute the wealth of the United States to other former soverign countries. All former nations now united in by some machination of political forgery, but most likely maintaining (at least for a period of history) their own seperate cultures and values. Thus, under such system, the US would lose much of its miltary "might", becoming just one of many vassal state subjects in the almighty globaly encompassing empire.

Sure it sounds crazy now. Okay. Except it doesnt, because they are on document saying this is the plan. But just give it a few years, they are trying to exert their control.

As you so marvelously pointed out, it is a chaotic world, and sometimes shit don't go down as planned. Case in point, a plane crashed in PA due to some occurance of chance. Regardless of who you think is responsible, the resultant implication of that plane hitting a target in DC (and it WAS headed that way) would be said supreme dictatorial control. On top of a financial bubble that had just burst, it would have been the opportune moment for a financial catastrophe. Unfortuantely we are once again at that precipe, which makes it (scarily) an opportune time for another terrorist attack, as it would make a great cover for a much "needed" economic collapse. Of course. Thats all if you buy conspiracy theory. Lucky for you, it's all nonsense.

soulsinging wrote:

3. i've read 1984. it's interesting, but it's also fiction. im not sure you knew that when you read it. for every similarity between the book and real life, i could give you a difference. it proves nothing.

Yuhp. Its "fiction", alright.
Fiction taken from "theory". ;P ;P ;P

soulsinging wrote:

4. you didn't answer the most interesting part of my post, asking what it is exactly that you are afraid of and how the possibility of the collapse of america should be deemed such a novel or fearful event when history is chock full of large empires ruled by elites rising and falling?

I'm not afraid of anything.
Fuck it. Bring it on.
Okay, it is a bit terrifying to think about economic collapse, hardship and poverty for the masses ... or possibly about being subject to new political tyranny in the future ... but my main goal here is to educate, not spread panic. The "panic" is supposed to be motivation to wake up.

soulsinging wrote:

5. sexual acceptance is awesome in my book. the more sex i have, the happier i am and i think the happier the world would be. the most pissed off people in the world are also the most sexually frustrated (islam, fundamentalist christians). i still fail to see what that has to do with naked
6 year olds playing in the streets. are you suggesting sex is a bad thing? you just got so much more lame dude

Yes it is.
Again, many of the things in BNWorld are "awesome" but it is the expense at which some of them are gained. Moraly, i just do not have it in my constitution to say that people are better off bred to be what genetics say they are (because i think that nurture is integral to the human experience). Brave New World is based on change agents revolutionizing the political and social sphere, but socialy conditioning the masses in to acceptance of a new social dogma ... one that is willingly accepted because it is a dogma which stipulated that ALL people will be bred based on laws of eugenics, and that they will be preselected for certain classes, and conditioned, developed, and "nurtured" to acceptance of those fates based on the outcomes of scientificaly determined best "educational" concepts. The social scientists run the system, the corporation still make all the profits, but the system is controlled exclusively by the elites with the help of the scientists and "professionals" while the majority of the people are spoon fed bullshit and lies and deliberately dumbed down to their stations in life, AND they get to take ole "soma" ... mmm mmm mmm ... Soma, the magic drug.

That is what that book deals with. Oh. And they all live in "The World State", and you fuck for fun, because babies come from a factory. There was a huge apocalyptic war (see that Kissinger quote above about that, its documented fact they are calling for it) and after that, humanity went on the fritz and changed its ways.

But keep in mind this was all parf of the plan. Okay.
Oh. And its just "fiction", right?

MasterFramer · February 2008

SilverSeed wrote:

My great grandfather was in the Sinn Fein. Should it be assumed I'm an Irish terrorist?

Did you great grandfather run a bank that hid Nazi money?

soulsinging · February 2008

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Uh. You are paying attention, right?
Hillary or Obama will be our next president, yes?
Donkeys out voting Elephants 2 to 1 roughly during primaries? Hillary or Obama. Obama or Hillary. Both pushing "free healthcare" or "universal healthcare" or "socialized medicine"?
Call it what you want. It is governmen subsidized, and heavily at that.

you HAAVE taken a basic civics class, right? you know we have this thing called a congress which would have to design and vote on any changes to the health care system? and if it is the will of THE PEOPLE as you keep saying, how is it a bad thing?

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

You may note that if the elite, whom you seem to want to ignore are themselves in admission that their goal is "one world" government, get their way, the world will redistribute the wealth of the United States to other former soverign countries. All former nations now united in by some machination of political forgery, but most likely maintaining (at least for a period of history) their own seperate cultures and values. Thus, under such system, the US would lose much of its miltary "might", becoming just one of many vassal state subjects in the almighty globaly encompassing empire.

Sure it sounds crazy now. Okay. Except it doesnt, because they are on document saying this is the plan. But just give it a few years, they are trying to exert their control.

As you so marvelously pointed out, it is a chaotic world, and sometimes shit don't go down as planned. Case in point, a plane crashed in PA due to some occurance of chance. Regardless of who you think is responsible, the resultant implication of that plane hitting a target in DC (and it WAS headed that way) would be said supreme dictatorial control. On top of a financial bubble that had just burst, it would have been the opportune moment for a financial catastrophe. Unfortuantely we are once again at that precipe, which makes it (scarily) an opportune time for another terrorist attack, as it would make a great cover for a much "needed" economic collapse. Of course. Thats all if you buy conspiracy theory. Lucky for you, it's all nonsense.

i love how you continue to rely on the meaningless and incredible supposition that if another plane had hit in 9/11 we'd be in a dictatorship. 3 planes hitting wasn't good enough? that fourth was the only one that mattered and made a difference? come on...

also, you point out the basic flaw on your own: these people (whoever the members of the league of shadows may be) won't be able to secure absolute control. they can definitely do a lot of damage, hurt a lot of people, and make a lot of money, but they can only take it so far. that 4th plane was shot down (the one conspiracy theory i actually DO believe). also, look at the american citizens trying to shoot mexicans crossing the border. look how much we bitch about the UN already. the already turning tide with respect to iraq. they may TRY to establish one world, whatever that means, but they won't get it. americans are stubborn and will only allow so much. furthermore, i think you underestimate other countries too. the french aint going to let go of their language and i think it's a safe bet the middle east isn't letting go of islam anytime this millenium. you vastly overstate your case and "their" influence.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I'm not afraid of anything.
Fuck it. Bring it on.
Okay, it is a bit terrifying to think about economic collapse, hardship and poverty for the masses ... or possibly about being subject to new political tyranny in the future ... but my main goal here is to educate, not spread panic. The "panic" is supposed to be motivation to wake up.

then you are failing in your goal. you are not educating, you are making yourself look like a laughable fool through your histrionics. a more restrained and reasoned debate would get you a helluva lot further. you actually remind me of me 8 years ago when i was campaigning for ralph nader and railing against "the man." i couldnt figure out why people thought i was a goof and didnt take me seriously then. it's quite clear now. cos none of us are terrified and your panic and terror arent inspiring anyone, just making you and your stances seem like a joke becos we read the same facts you do and none of us draw the same apocalyptic conclusions you do.

even if you are right though, tell me what there is to be so frightened of? i mentioned rome, the british empire, etc. history is full of the ebb and flow of civilization and empire. they rise and fall. sometimes it's bad for the poor, sometimes not. hell, sometimes it's bad for the elite too. i recall a king or two getting his head chopped off by the people now and again. in the grand scheme of things, this matters little. a total collapse would hit america hard. but most people survived the great depression too. and if not, well, it might just be our turn to get some humility and be the africa of the world for a while. becos YOU are a part of the game and the system too. you think africa isn't happy for every food bag they get through our "global" efforts? you just want to make sure america (the elite) stays at the top of the heap and leave the hard life to the third world. congratulations. you're a real humanitarian.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Yes it is.
Again, many of the things in BNWorld are "awesome" but it is the expense at which some of them are gained. Moraly, i just do not have it in my constitution to say that people are better off bred to be what genetics say they are (because i think that nurture is integral to the human experience). Brave New World is based on change agents revolutionizing the political and social sphere, but socialy conditioning the masses in to acceptance of a new social dogma ... one that is willingly accepted because it is a dogma which stipulated that ALL people will be bred based on laws of eugenics, and that they will be preselected for certain classes, and conditioned, developed, and "nurtured" to acceptance of those fates based on the outcomes of scientificaly determined best "educational" concepts. The social scientists run the system, the corporation still make all the profits, but the system is controlled exclusively by the elites with the help of the scientists and "professionals" while the majority of the people are spoon fed bullshit and lies and deliberately dumbed down to their stations in life, AND they get to take ole "soma" ... mmm mmm mmm ... Soma, the magic drug.

That is what that book deals with. Oh. And they all live in "The World State", and you fuck for fun, because babies come from a factory. There was a huge apocalyptic war (see that Kissinger quote above about that, its documented fact they are calling for it) and after that, humanity went on the fritz and changed its ways.

But keep in mind this was all parf of the plan. Okay.
Oh. And its just "fiction", right?

how does more sex automatically equate to baby-making factories? do you really think this is a possibility becos it's in brave new world? seriously?

Drowned Out · February 2008

For me, ther jury is still out on whether there is a set, multi-generational agenda for the elite to control the masses. It would not surprise me one bit. It also would not surprise me globalization was simply the natural progression of greed... maybe a few sinister characters initiating the most brutal world events for their own gain.

But I think that even IF there is merit to the eugenics theory, it is a disservice to the cause of 'outing' the controlling elite to use it as an example of the plot to form a NWO. I was very disappointed with AJ's focus on eugenics in End Game. He had to know a huge majority would not accept this as part of the conspiracy. It makes me wonder if it is thrown in there as disinformation, and a distraction from the movies more plausible points. (no, I don't trust AJ either

)

I've been trying forever to find a scan of an article from High Times I had a long time ago...it was called Nomenclature of an Octopus Cabal....and listed an interpretive history of secret organizations like the masons, Illuminatti, Skull and Bones, Knights Templar, Mormons, et al, and their posturing to control both sides of any arguments against them. The formation of groups that were anti-mason BY masons...since reading that, it is always in the back of my head that the people pushing these theories could have an agenda as well. When you start to assume that their IS men behind the curtain, you have to consider how far their greedy little fingers can reach. Obviously, having an open mind involves keeping the filters on when researching from non-mainstream sources as well.

OutOfBreath · February 2008

Drowned Out wrote:

For me, ther jury is still out on whether there is a set, multi-generational agenda for the elite to control the masses. It would not surprise me one bit. It also would not surprise me globalization was simply the natural progression of greed... maybe a few sinister characters initiating the most brutal world events for their own gain.

Much more sensible right there.

But I think that even IF there is merit to the eugenics theory, it is a disservice to the cause of 'outing' the controlling elite to use it as an example of the plot to form a NWO. I was very disappointed with AJ's focus on eugenics in End Game. He had to know a huge majority would not accept this as part of the conspiracy. It makes me wonder if it is thrown in there as disinformation, and a distraction from the movies more plausible points. (no, I don't trust AJ either )

The eugenics thing is really a stretch to say the least. And maybe he is in on it too....

I've been trying forever to find a scan of an article from High Times I had a long time ago...it was called Nomenclature of an Octopus Cabal....and listed an interpretive history of secret organizations like the masons, Illuminatti, Skull and Bones, Knights Templar, Mormons, et al, and their posturing to control both sides of any arguments against them. The formation of groups that were anti-mason BY masons...since reading that, it is always in the back of my head that the people pushing these theories could have an agenda as well. When you start to assume that their IS men behind the curtain, you have to consider how far their greedy little fingers can reach. Obviously, having an open mind involves keeping the filters on when researching from non-mainstream sources as well.

That's the fun part, I agree. Who knows if not AJ and others are merely pawns of the NWO spreading disinformation on the web to keep the people distracted from what is REALLY going on.

Overall a very sane post here. Thank you.

Peace
Dan

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2008

soulsinging wrote:

you HAAVE taken a basic civics class, right? you know we have this thing called a congress which would have to design and vote on any changes to the health care system? and if it is the will of THE PEOPLE as you keep saying, how is it a bad thing?

If the people have been so brainwashed in to wanting socialism implemented in America, then i would say that it is categoricaly a bad thing. The fact that we have both Democratic candidates pushing for it is already bad enough. I was simply pointing out that when you have one entire half of the political spectrum pushing for explicit socialism, its pretty fucking hard to argue that the US is "far away" from Socialism. Do you not at least agree with that? By the way state run retirement and welfare programs also are considered "socialist", if you still don't want to follow this logic.

soulsinging wrote:

i love how you continue to rely on the meaningless and incredible supposition that if another plane had hit in 9/11 we'd be in a dictatorship. 3 planes hitting wasn't good enough? that fourth was the only one that mattered and made a difference? come on...

I'm pretty sure that had flight 93 plowed in to the Capitol building, the veritable seat of US Government, that the as of 2001 very vague "rules" on martial law would have allowed the president to declare such. If that didn't qualify as an immediate and severe threat to national security, i don't know what would have.

Anyhow. You may at least be curious what is in store for next time, straight from government record. Want to know what the new face of such military\dictatorial rule will be? Its pretty fucking severe:

Straight From The Executive Orders wrote:

Assignment of Emergency Preparedness Functions, October 11, 2004
The following EOs all fall under EO 12919: [8]

EO 10990: "allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports." [9]
EO 10995: Federal seizure of all communications media in the US.
EO 10997: Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private.
EO 10998: Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment.
EO 10999: Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways.
EO 11000: Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires.
EO 11001: Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private.
EO 11002: Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US.
EO 11003: Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft.
EO 11004: Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as 'unsafe,' establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds.
EO 11005: Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private.
EO 11051: Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of 'National Emergency').
EO 12919 "Apparently Allows Cabinet Heads to Make Direct Loans to Government Contractors." [10]

As far as flight 93 being shot down, i'm glad you at least recognize that is the most probable thing to have happened. Here is an article you probably never saw:

Deleted\Censored\\ wrote:

FLIGHT 93 LANDED IN CLEVELAND

The first story, posted at 11:43 a.m. on September 11, 2001 by "9News Staff" of Cincinnati's WCPO-TV, reported that United Airlines Flight 93 had landed in Cleveland. This is an up-to-the-minute news report about the flight that supposedly crashed in a reclaimed mine near Shanksville, Penn. at 10:06 a.m.

"A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.

"White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.

"United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight.

"United said it was also 'deeply concerned' about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles.

"On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: 'The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved. United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights,' he said."

This small, but extremely significant story of 147 words, which can still be found at the station's archives, has been purged from the historical record.

The original story is here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20021109040132/http://wcpo.com/specials/2001/americaattacked/news_local/story14.html

A search for the story on WCPO's website brings up a page with the title, but no story. This is what one finds:

Plane Lands In Cleveland; Bomb Feared Aboard

Reported by: 9News Staff
Web produced by: Liz Foreman
9/11/01 11:43:57 AM

This story has been removed from WCPO.com.

It was a preliminary AP story, and was factually incorrect.

http://www.wcpo.com/specials/2001/americaattacked/news_local/story14.html

soulsinging wrote:

also, you point out the basic flaw on your own: these people (whoever the members of the league of shadows may be) won't be able to secure absolute control. they can definitely do a lot of damage, hurt a lot of people, and make a lot of money, but they can only take it so far. that 4th plane was shot down (the one conspiracy theory i actually DO believe). also, look at the american citizens trying to shoot mexicans crossing the border. look how much we bitch about the UN already. the already turning tide with respect to iraq. they may TRY to establish one world, whatever that means, but they won't get it. americans are stubborn and will only allow so much. furthermore, i think you underestimate other countries too. the french aint going to let go of their language and i think it's a safe bet the middle east isn't letting go of islam anytime this millenium. you vastly overstate your case and "their" influence.

You are right. They are faltering in their efforts.
I am quite delighted in that. I don't know what your argument does to discredit the notion that they are actualy working towards a goal, though. Everyone who sets a goal will reach some sort of setback ... certainly the elite never saw the day coming when Bilderberg would be in national papers and discussed all over the internet ... remember back as short time ago as the 1990s, the establishment basicaly denied that these groups were even real. Bilderberg was just some little meeting that popped up in one article every 5 or 6 years, and in a little blurb. No one talked about it. You were laughed at for even mentioning it. So you are right, they have been "outed" so to speak. But like i said, you don't generaly enjoy fucking with a cornered wild animal. If push comes to shove, the elite will just crash the financial system and have their little turbaned buddies fly over here and deploy some more bombs. That oughta catch 'em back up to speed.

soulsinging wrote:

even if you are right though, tell me what there is to be so frightened of?[...] you just want to make sure america (the elite) stays at the top of the heap and leave the hard life to the third world. congratulations. you're a real humanitarian.

Look.
I said, i plan to deal with "it" when it gets here.
As far as what there is to be frightened of, if the financial system in the United States collapses, and particularly if it does "decouple" from the global economy like many of the experts are still saying ... that implies the US Dollar will crash outside of a global collapse. In other words, OUR dollar will be worth dogshit, but the other curriencies of the world will only devalue slightly.

In such a circumstance, the price of oil domesticaly (ONLY in america) would go through the fucking roof. Oil looks like it is already headed towards $150 a barrel. If it goes to $200 or $250 on the backs of a total meltdown here in America, the FOOD SUPPLY IS FUCKED. It is so heavily dependant on oil ... if all of a sudden basic food crops triple or quadruple in price, at the same time where many americans are out of a job, or are being paid 2006 adjusted wages (not accounting for rapid inflation), what the fuck are we gonna do?

Also, if you don't see where the abuse of such a collapse (possibly combined with a terrorist incident) under the new very severe martial law executive orders above could lead to a total loss of soverignty and freedom, then i'm sorry, you just don't get it.

I fully believe the American people are hard-headed and will only take so much ... but i think in the face of massive panic and crisis, that what they WILL take\accept becomes much more massive than otherwise. In other words, if they pull another 911 and drop the floor on the stockmarket, people will let ole Hillary or Obama lead them off a cliff like lemmings.

Now.
As far as the sex in Brave New World, man i was joshing you. Trying to say that if you were really digging on the Brave New World style society, the only good you must have seen in it was the fact that as a young man you would have got to see and play with some little girl vagina.
:rolleyes:

[and in Brave New World, children are literaly all produced in factories. "Traditional" breeding is heavily frowned upon. And FYI "one child" policies are just a hop skip and a jump from that reality. See China]

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2008

Drowned Out wrote:

But I think that even IF there is merit to the eugenics theory, it is a disservice to the cause of 'outing' the controlling elite to use it as an example of the plot to form a NWO.

I'm sorry to disagree here. Well, okay, i think you are right in that it is a "disservice" to helping the "masses" find credibility in the "theory", only because the masses can't stomach anything that is so radicaly beyond the scope of their reality. However, Alex Jones is all sbout presenting the WHOLE of the agenda.

Now.
IS that part of the agenda?
Having dug in to this a LOT more in recent months, i can assure you that euguenics is categoricaly 100% part of the historical record of "these" people. The Rockefeller charitble foundations were nearly single handedly responsible for pushing modern eugenics in to the spotlight, and giving Hitler the idea. In case you missed it (i think you actualy said in my other thread that you DID see this) that quote over in my "Planned Society" thread cleary indicates it IS part of the plan. The "elite scientists setting policy" IS eugenics.

Again, Hitler's eugenics program started as a way to murder the mentaly ill and infirm .. NOT the jews.

Now.
Is eugenics gone?
NO.
They call it "Genetic Engineering" these days.
It is "modern eugenics". Look it up. We went from natural (evolution), to conventional genetics (selective breeding, forced depopulation of "undesirables") all the way to "modern eugenics", which is just genetic engineering.

So is that okay?
Yeah i guess there are some benefits to GE.
Can it be blatantly manipulated? Uh yeah.
Its pretty fucking scary right.
Do you see a future (oh say 25 years out?) where society may be totaly different, the kids totaly perverted in their thoughts by schooling, and technology so advanced that people willingly accept modified human genetics?

At what point does that get right back to Brave New World?

That IS what that book was about.
Manipulating the genetic code of life to place some people squarely in the "worker bee" camp ... beefed up, stupid, and happy to work forever (oh, and lets not forget the DRUGS ... remember the quote in my other thread) ... and then you engineer the elite to be taller, smarter, and more attractive ...

OutOfBreath · February 2008

I guess my main point through it all is first of all why the total distrust of any moderating, more conventional knowledge and sources and the complete trust of whatever you find on the internet according to basically "some guy"? The internet being the least reliable of probably all research methods when it comes to knowing your source, and hence the context and intent of the source? (which is absolutely crucial for any research)

That's a pretty simple, although long, question for you right there.

Peace
Dan

Drowned Out · February 2008

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I'm sorry to disagree here. Well, okay, i think you are right in that it is a "disservice" to helping the "masses" find credibility in the "theory", only because the masses can't stomach anything that is so radicaly beyond the scope of their reality. However, Alex Jones is all sbout presenting the WHOLE of the agenda.

That was basically what I was getting at by saying it was a disservice. After the Police State series, all of the 9/11 stuff, the american gulag links on his site, etc...I thought End Game was the perfect opportunity to wrap it all up into one slick, big budget doc that would be presentable to the masses...instead he decided to get even more radical...so it seems only his most feverent 'true believers' would be able to actually digest (or consider/believe) what he's saying.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Now.
IS that part of the agenda?
Having dug in to this a LOT more in recent months, i can assure you that euguenics is categoricaly 100% part of the historical record of "these" people. The Rockefeller charitble foundations were nearly single handedly responsible for pushing modern eugenics in to the spotlight, and giving Hitler the idea. In case you missed it (i think you actualy said in my other thread that you DID see this) that quote over in my "Planned Society" thread cleary indicates it IS part of the plan. The "elite scientists setting policy" IS eugenics.

Again, Hitler's eugenics program started as a way to murder the mentaly ill and infirm .. NOT the jews.

Now.
Is eugenics gone?
NO.
They call it "Genetic Engineering" these days.
It is "modern eugenics". Look it up. We went from natural (evolution), to conventional genetics (selective breeding, forced depopulation of "undesirables") all the way to "modern eugenics", which is just genetic engineering.

So is that okay?
Yeah i guess there are some benefits to GE.
Can it be blatantly manipulated? Uh yeah.
Its pretty fucking scary right.
Do you see a future (oh say 25 years out?) where society may be totaly different, the kids totaly perverted in their thoughts by schooling, and technology so advanced that people willingly accept modified human genetics?.

I realize it's all part of the alleged program...and that it all ties back to the banking families...which in and of itself makes it worthy of investigation for malicious intent. I tend to believe that the education programs have been set to indoctrinate people...texts supplied by the US to Afghan children after the USSR occupation is an easy example (learning math by counting tanks and bombs, etc)...but the genetic engineering side of it is something that I'm admittedly not well versed on. The basic point to my post was that I am not so presumptous to proclaim that I DO know what's going on....I am very careful to draw conclusions, and I wish AJ was more that way...he presents a ton of useful information, but loses people when he starts telling them how to percieve it.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

At what point does that get right back to Brave New World?

Haven't read it, been meaning to for a while.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

That IS what that book was about.
Manipulating the genetic code of life to place some people squarely in the "worker bee" camp ... beefed up, stupid, and happy to work forever (oh, and lets not forget the DRUGS ... remember the quote in my other thread) ... and then you engineer the elite to be taller, smarter, and more attractive ...

I will say...there are way to many fugly people in the world. I hope they open the hot-chick breeding plant somewhere in Western Canada

spiral out · February 2008

OutOfBreath wrote:

I guess my main point through it all is first of all why the total distrust of any moderating, more conventional knowledge and sources and the complete trust of whatever you find on the internet according to basically "some guy"? The internet being the least reliable of probably all research methods when it comes to knowing your source, and hence the context and intent of the source? (which is absolutely crucial for any research)

That's a pretty simple, although long, question for you right there.

Peace
Dan

Doesn't this work both ways though, i mean where do you research to get the information to disprove things that are said that you don't agree with?

Because to be honest i don't see a lot of proof from the other side of the coin round here. It's mostly just people's opinion.

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2008

spiral out wrote:

Because to be honest i don't see a lot of proof from the other side of the coin round here. It's mostly just people's opinion.

no shit.
EVERY thing that is brought up by the "crazy" around here is shot down categoricaly with little more than, "That's crazy. Where's your proof."

And when you start providing anything to back it with, it's always, "yeah, that's a bunch of crap." or "check your source, its not trustworthy." or "a quote? You're using a quote? Who trusts words around here? I want DNA."

DNA?

:rolleyes:

OutOfBreath · February 2008

spiral out wrote:

Doesn't this work both ways though, i mean where do you research to get the information to disprove things that are said that you don't agree with?

Because to be honest i don't see a lot of proof from the other side of the coin round here. It's mostly just people's opinion.

My point is that if you are to be so sceptical, then you should apply that scepticism also to obscure internet sources, if not more so. And the ones claiming conspiracy have the burden of proof, really.

Peace
Dan

spiral out · February 2008

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

no shit.
EVERY thing that is brought up by the "crazy" around here is shot down categoricaly with little more than, "That's crazy. Where's your proof."

And when you start providing anything to back it with, it's always, "yeah, that's a bunch of crap." or "check your source, its not trustworthy." or "a quote? You're using a quote? Who trusts words around here? I want DNA."

DNA?

:rolleyes:

Ha ha, that's how i see it round here alot to.

spiral out · February 2008

OutOfBreath wrote:

My point is that if you are to be so sceptical, then you should apply that scepticism also to obscure internet sources, if not more so. And the ones claiming conspiracy have the burden of proof, really.

Peace
Dan

Hmm, I'm not disagreeing with you by any means, i was simply pointing out the usual responses from most posters that i see round here hardly ever show any proof to shot down the original posters point it's usually just as drifting said some useless post.

I personally get most of my info from books, and you know what for the most part they have the same info as stuff i have read or watched on the net, just maybe without the a spin on it.

OutOfBreath · February 2008

spiral out wrote:

I personally get most of my info from books, and you know what for the most part they have the same info as stuff i have read or watched on the net, just maybe without the a spin on it.

The difference is that with a book, you have a clear author, maybe some bio in him/her, and a publisher. All of which can be used when filtering just what they say, and who they are that are saying it.

You can get that several places on the net as well, certainly. But defining the author of the web can be hard, and rumours can spread like wildfire over several pages with the blink of an eye. It is more problematic from a knowing your source point of view. (edit) interestingly if the conspiracy existed, it's best tool would be to promote fake conspiracies on the web, wouldn't it?

As for being taken seriously, it doesnt help when you build a reputation for consistent overstatement over a few months, and then try to make points by referencing people that maybe overstate even more. That response drifting gave me in the other thread was good and to the point. And suddenly a lot less conspiracy hysteric, because he stuck to the sources and didn't insert adjectives and hyperbole into it.

Peace
Dan

soulsinging · February 2008

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Look.
I said, i plan to deal with "it" when it gets here.
As far as what there is to be frightened of, if the financial system in the United States collapses, and particularly if it does "decouple" from the global economy like many of the experts are still saying ... that implies the US Dollar will crash outside of a global collapse. In other words, OUR dollar will be worth dogshit, but the other curriencies of the world will only devalue slightly.

In such a circumstance, the price of oil domesticaly (ONLY in america) would go through the fucking roof. Oil looks like it is already headed towards $150 a barrel. If it goes to $200 or $250 on the backs of a total meltdown here in America, the FOOD SUPPLY IS FUCKED. It is so heavily dependant on oil ... if all of a sudden basic food crops triple or quadruple in price, at the same time where many americans are out of a job, or are being paid 2006 adjusted wages (not accounting for rapid inflation), what the fuck are we gonna do?

Also, if you don't see where the abuse of such a collapse (possibly combined with a terrorist incident) under the new very severe martial law executive orders above could lead to a total loss of soverignty and freedom, then i'm sorry, you just don't get it.

I fully believe the American people are hard-headed and will only take so much ... but i think in the face of massive panic and crisis, that what they WILL take\accept becomes much more massive than otherwise. In other words, if they pull another 911 and drop the floor on the stockmarket, people will let ole Hillary or Obama lead them off a cliff like lemmings.

again, so what? so the US has to live in conditions that still arent half as bad as what africa has had to endure for centuries. maybe it's our turn. you're still just concerned about an elite nation losing its elite status and perks, just like "the man" you keep railing against is concerned about losing his elite status and power and influence.

DriftingByTheStorm · February 2008

soulsinging wrote:

again, so what? so the US has to live in conditions that still arent half as bad as what africa has had to endure for centuries. maybe it's our turn. you're still just concerned about an elite nation losing its elite status and perks, just like "the man" you keep railing against is concerned about losing his elite status and power and influence.

No.
The suffering i can deal with.
I'm worried about the alleged INTENT of this crisis, which namely is to break the American spirit and get them to submit to new international law.

At the very least, an economic crisis of this magnitute would likely get the government to capitulate in accepting a NEW CURRENCY. A multi-national currency, the Amero, for example, may be proposed.

It is in this time of crisis, that i fear the powers that be will work to coerce government in to signing "legislation" that significantly subverts the constitution and ulitmately leads to the destruction of the national identity and constitutional foundation of America as we know it.

My only problem with the actual financial crash itself is that it was avoidable, and was perpetrated deliberately to affect an end goal of realigning the power structure in america to the best interests of the globalist elite.

:(

Good long read about conspiracy theories

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