Good long read about conspiracy theories
OutOfBreath
Posts: 1,804
Here is explored in full connections between religion and various grand conspiracy theories. I thought it a good read.
Part 1: http://atheism.about.com/library/weekly/aa092299.htm
Part 2: http://atheism.about.com/library/weekly/aa092299b.htm
Engage naive-flaming..... NOW!
Peace
Dan
Part 1: http://atheism.about.com/library/weekly/aa092299.htm
Part 2: http://atheism.about.com/library/weekly/aa092299b.htm
Engage naive-flaming..... NOW!
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
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I was interested to see the author mention randomness and indirectly chaos. I have often thought that chaos theory might apply to humanity in many different areas (politics, economies, communication and many more).
There would be a PHD in there somewhere.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Feels it need to be up there for counterweight these days.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
About.com is owned by Primedia, a publicly traded company with controlling interest held by KKR, whose founder Henry Kravis is a trustee for the CFR. That was too easy
Nothing like drawing the lines with guilt by association. Nicely done.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
The line being drawn, basically goes like this.....a CFR director controls about.com
True or false?
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the article you posted would be of interest to a founder of the website's parent company....when the topic concerns shady dealings by another organization he directs. But hey, it's totally unfounded to think there could be an "international cabal seeking world SATANIC government"
This wasn't about shady dealings inside CFR, this piece was about conspiracy theories and the hows and whys of their unlikelyness, added the religion dimension. He seemed to have a slightly atheist agenda and perhaps ridicules a bit more than strictly called for. (But I guess to some that's the smoking gun right there)
Yes, it is pretty unfounded and highly unlikely.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I may at some point venture past the first page of this article, but he lost me even before the summary of his first point at this line:
This false statement attempts to deride "conspiracy theorists" for daring to believe that a relatively small group of men could exert and would want to exert relative control over "the world".
Beyond trying to insinuate that "complex systems" and the "organic" social structure could not somehow be subverted through the use of overwhelming financial manipulation (Federal Reserve), political control (CFR presidents) and systemic control (education system, media, corporate ownership) is not only silly itself ...
... but such talk also fails to acount for one very glaring truth: there are quotes and documents galore to show that such people have, do, and will continue to exist ... people who want as much control and power as humanly possible ... and that WILL act as "shadowy forces seeking world domination".
WE HAVE THE quoteS THAT PROVE IT
is basicaly what i'm trying to say.
CFR is EVERYWHERE and Rockefeller is CONFESSED.
They are just arrogant cocksuckers and they do half of it so blatantly that people are resigned. The other half is MOST DEFINATELY SHADOWY as shit.
Formation of the federal reserve act? Done under the cloakness of an escape from the city on a private traincar by night, with differen servants than usualy, hidden identities, made up stories, a private traincar that hitched and unhitched seperately after and before both departure and arrival (respectively) sweeping conspiratorial elitist participants to Rockefellers very own private island "clubhouse" resort where again, all the servants had been replaced so no one would know whom these elitist gentlemen were ... and if that isn't a fucking conspiracy, i don't know what the fuck is. Because thats about as cut and dry as they come in the real world.
Having EVERY presidential candidate be CFR is also a little bit damning, isn't it? I mean, come on.
And lest we not go back in time before Rockefeller to one other realy classy fuck, CECIL RHODES.
A man whose first 6 wills or so all contained a direct request to set up a SECRET SOCIETY ... even wikipedia couldn't white wash this shit:
Oh, but by the time he died he realized the BEST way to get total control was to PRETEND to be charitable (even though the legality of his OTHER will still stood, i think), setting up "THE RHODES SCHOLARSHIP". ... ah yes ... I believe old Bill Clinton was one, too.
BUT DIG THIS.
I just listened to this today, so lucky you. It's our buddy Alex Jones talking (in the last hour) to Charlotte Iserbyt, author of The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America. Now, i'm not gonna go into it, cause you should just listen, but the evidence on it is DAMNIG, and then check this ... our little Proto-NWO wanting Cecil Rhodes got THIS out of his scholarship:
The Rhodes fortune, through the Rhodes Scholarship Fund, has been used to promote the concept of globalism and one-world government. Up to 1953, out of 1,372 American Rhodes Scholars, 431 had positions in teaching and educational administration, 31 were college presidents, 113 had government positions, 70 held positions in the media, and 14 were executives in foundations. -source
And THOSE (pre 50's) were the GOOD times in education (at least in america) ... but after that they REALLY got control of the educational system.
Anyway ..
Yeah i give up.
Theres no conspiracies.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Oh there are conspiracies abound. Just not knit together in a tight matrix by a satanic cabal of evil men.
It is not surprising that the CFR, that officially is supposed to be bi-partisan foreign policy think-tank of the US, actually have presidential candidates on visit for talks. It would be very strange if they didn't invite potential presidents, actually.
That Rockefeller quote that he is an internationalist, is not the same as confessing to the secret conspiracy.
And that various rich guys had ideas, schemes and wills that weren't actually wholesome still isn't near to evidence of the all-present super-conspiracy that is claimed.
What I have little respect for or belief in is the satanic super-conspiracy that somehow is behind everything bad in the world. And depending on the personal beliefs, they either replace Satan (for the atheists) or are agents of Satan (for the religious).
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Just because something is a conspiracy doesn't make it automatically false or true, for that matter. That's why I always say let's just talk about what we know and go from there. It seems here most don't even want to entertain a thorough discussion about these theories...they only want to dismiss them right from the start without really taking the time to look into what's being said and countering it. Like putting down info just because it came from youtube. Youtube like any other information medium has plenty of true and false material...so I don't understand dismissing material simply because it's a youtube clip. I just think the conspiracy theorists aren't treated fairly when these threads come up. Mostly they are shot down without the first attempt at a civil discussion and that's a shame.
Even the official 9/11 story is still just a theory based on speculation and circumstantial evidence.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well certainly. Conspiracies happen. I just tend to disregard the "total" brand which has the world all figured out and has evil men responsible for all ills. There are no random events, seems to be the motto.
And I dont know if you've been around often lately, but most threads tend to be hijacked by the conspiracy-crowd these days. It gets old, and the backing they have is often flimsy. Which is why they might get shot down quickly these days in here.
And I'm all for asking questions, but these folks have answers that they do the net equivalent of yelling in your ear, while being completely impervious to questions going against their answer.
That's what rubs me the wrong way about them, and that's some of what is adressed in the links i posted.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
An entire section of the second page was dedicated to the CFR.
Read the last sentence of each paragraph in that section of the article (whadaya call that again? the conclusive statement?)
It is beyond ridicule or bias....the more I read it the more I would liken it to posting a David Icke article about why conspiracy theories are valid. It reads like a total smear job. That's why I quoted the "satanic" line. Just throwing that word into that sentence totally changes the way an uniformed reader would perceive the topic.
For me, the fact that this is the journalism you find when you try to read up on the topic from a credible (to some) source is just feeding the fire. The vilification of people that question is disheartening.
I like to hear more than one side to a story, but it seems if the other side is outside of corporate (and in Canada moreso than the US, public) media, I'm classed as a nut job. There is a reason there is different news and opinions broadcast by people that don't have to answer to a board of directors, share holders, and advertisers, and those who do. It seems since 9/11, anyone that thinks for themselves is 'guilty by association' with the Icke - reptilian - types.
The whole notion of 'conspiracy theorists', and the image associated with them/us just drives me nuts. People pretending they know what's going on in the world, ridiculing other people for pretending to know what's going on in the world...on BOTH sides. ie: "It is a pity when simple open-mindedness is construed as a sinister attempt to promote a particular ideology no matter what the cost". (from the linked article...right after it calls the CFR 'an organization considering all options to promote peace' :rolleyes: )
edit: just saw your last post...you're generalizing based on your experiences with a couple people, that's part of what I'm talking about in this post.
I like the self-defeating cycle where frustrated "conspiracy theorists" have to start yelling information while screaming "read this! its proof!" because the readers REFUSE to actualy digest information and would much rather focus on their opponents superficial faults ... like their writing style or personal disposition.
Then, in response to the CTers more forceful post, the reader comes back and starts talking about the "hard headed" nature of the CT poster, totaly ignoring or trivializing the content in favor of bringing up the faults in the presentation.
Thus the cycle begins anew with the CT proponent getting more agitated and incindiary trying to get the reader to focus on the actual content.
Case in point, as OutOfBreath how much of the information posted or linked he actualy seriously looks at.
I can only surmise that it must be a dismally small percentage.
And OOB or not, that is the general level of investigative work done by those that spew anti-CT vitrol.
The linked AJ Show audio clip in my above post is a PERFECT example.
Alex starts the broadcast begging his listeners to help him find some quote on "the family is a disease" that he read in an older college textbook for a social work curriculum course. He asks for this because some jackass on youtube made a video ranting about how Alex Jones is crazy, saying he promotes "Bush talks to Aliens, and sees UFOs" type theories and makes up things about social workers calling the family a disease.
The video is total uneducated hackjob slander, and Alex ceremoniously proves the guy a fucking ass by acutaly getting the source on the exact quote the guy said he made up.
Bottom line, it gets realy tiresome when people who understand even less about the workings of the things they claim don't exist start harping at people and making them feel "crazy" for believing in things which they have researched and have come to the very real conclusion DO in fact exist.
No one will ever fucking rule the world in some sick satanic wetdream ... but the reality of this universe can actualy come quite close to that more speilberg-ian nightmare. A dozen or more extremely rich and influential men can set push policies, fund institutions, and manipulate global monitary and political structure to eventualy create something nearly as bad as a true statanic-hitler-esque conspiratorial evil reptile demon bloodsucker tyrant.
Owning the government (okay, at least renting the whitehouse), the money supply, much of the land, most of the major industry, all of the media and setting the policy for most of the federal government, the educational system, the financial system SURELY constitutes some form of conspiratorial power, right?
I mean, come ON!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
That is also to indicate the line of reasoning those advocating the total conspiracy view seems to be following.
People that question, fine. People with answers derived from just as questionable sources, not fine.
And that's not right, and that's not my point, or the way I read it, even the original article's point. Questions are all good.
Again, I am not slagging questioning nor that conspiracies happen. It's the GRAND all-encompassing conspiracy with the heavy right-wing slant I'm having a hard time stomaching.
They triggered it, yes. But my problem is with all those grand conspiracy folks. Not with people claiming corruption and conspiracies happen, because they do. The worldwide unanimous and almost allknowing organization orchestrating the whole thing is what's ridiculous and highly unlikely. Or to put it another way, bad shit happens, but it's when it's all tied together to a single source and added a good slice of obvious agenda they lose me.
But it may well be that what you're talking about is not this crowd but those that generally question.
I still dont need much more than the basic concept of class struggle, knowledge of how networks operate among people, and a basic understanding of institutions to explain a lot of what one sees. This can all happen without an evil organization behind it drawing strings. That's all I'm saying.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
It CAN, yes.
But it DOES NOT.
What part of the history of the CFR, Trilateral, United Nations, Federal Reserve, Bilderberg etc etc etc etc etc do you not understand to be conducted, run, funded, orchestrated, and implemented by the SAME small group of likeminded GLOBALIST filth pedlers?
You have admitted quotes from people like Rockefeller saying they ARE guilty of subverting the best interests of the Unites States in favor of the furtherance of plans for a more "global" government, and privately thanking certain media institutions for respecting the privacy of the CFR in its quest to achieve world government.
That is pretty fucking straight forward.
And history seems to back it up.
Like i said in my above post,
i highly doubt you have truly looked in to much of any of it. If you had, you would see it is glaringly obvious.
If you can't, maybe you need to read "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America" and try to figure out why you CAN'T understand it -- because, Norway or not, the globalists have the same model for EVERY educational system ... hell, they got it from Prussia to begin with.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Actually, I read through most of what is posted here. Youtube clips I tend to skip, as they are too time-consuming. I did however watch the AJ clip you posted not long ago, and I did respond. And you were hard pressed to back with fact the slant it was given by AJ. I also researched on AJ to find out who he was (and that he is not the same as the pulitzer winner) and what his game was.
Power can and are certainly abused. And of course theoretically it CAN happen. It's likeliness however is significantly smaller. And people like for instance AJ do themselves no favours by tying into it everything bad they can think of. All social and political trends and realities are likewise not the sole result of this little unit of men.
Money rules, that is capitalism in a nutshell. The big capitalists do have too much power, I agree to that. It is some ways from that to global police state, which I dont even see the point in for the elite either. They get what they want now, why would they create a police regime that would only instigate resentment and eventual revolt by the citizens? The current relatively free system of democracy, commodification and consumerism works to their advantage as it is. They dont need a super-secret conspiracy. The class struggle of the world is blatantly out in the open. So if you want to change something, it's there for you.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
That capitalists support internationalist ideas is no surprise or secret. Arguably that makes them against US interests, but traditionally, internationalist ideas for trade and whatnot have favoured the US and it's elite.
Lists of influential, rich and powerful people being involved in the same international institutions or meetings does not equal conspiring. Btw, look how well the UN manages to do anything with all that elite gathered in one place.
I see what you see, I dont give it the interpretation and spin that you do. That's the difference.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
You accuse OutOfBreath of not looking at information posted or linked. However, in one of your previous posts (#11) you stated in response to OutOfBreath's previously posted article:
"I may at some point venture past the first page of this article, but he lost me even before the summary of his first point..."
So are you not reading everything posted either? I respect your right to argue your opinion, but don't point the finger at other people when you're guilty of the same thing. This would be hyprocritical.
what the hell do quotes prove? that there are a lot of ambitious people who want as much power, money, and influence as they can get? by god, you've won me.
what cfr? the only ones i see when i google are a bank and a diplomatic entity.
what did rockefeller confess to?
the reason i've given up on TRYING to digest the information is that on numerous occasions i have read it. and you know what? it ISNT proof. it's coincidence and conjecture, strung together to provide a damning picture with scant substance. it's like a michael moore movie. pick your position, select any fact that looks bad, ignore any fact that doesn't support it, and dismiss any skepticism with claims of naivete.
im with OOB on this. the problem is not conspiracy theories per se. certainly, powerful people band together to benefit themselves often. certainly there are conspiracies. the problem is that too often conspiracy theorists overreach themselves. nothing EVER happens by chance or accident. everything is coordinated and controlled by an evil syndicate always working in concert. bad things never happen just becos sometimes people are fucked up and do shitty things sometimes. there is ALWAYS a lex luthor-style criminal mastermind behind it. just as to a religious person, satan is always behind it. they are both equally nonsense views.
You say you have read and looked in to this stuff, yet one post above you say "What CFR?" and seemingly acknowledge you do not even know what the organization is or what it does (and what its REAL goals are).
Council on Foreign Relations.
Look it up.
It was founded by Rockefeller interests with the aim of achieving significant CONTROL over US "foreign" policy ... although the reality is they affect nearly ALL policy decisions facing our government, in that they are behind every president and much of the legislature.
Now.
Did i stop reading OOBs article?
Yes.
Is that hypocritical?
Yes.
But we're talking about a MOUNTAIN of information presented here to show that there IS something incredibly f*@#!D up going on, and all we get back is one article written by, as OOB likes to say, "obviously biased sources with agendas".
And if we want to start weighing who has the bigger agenda, The Internationalist Elite, or Alex Jones, give me a fucking break. One guy (AJ) openly talks about liberty and clearly supports the ideals our republic was founded on, and screams about it on a daily basis ... in fact his ENTIRE livelyhood is based on (wether you agree with his sensationalism or not) raising awareness and defending freedom from tyrany ...
AND ON THE OTHER HAND ... you have the Rockefeller\CFR\Globalist elite ... whose STATED INTENTION IS GLOBAL POLITICAL CONTROL... and who ADMIT IN THEIR OWN PUBLISHED MEMOIRS that this is the case, and that it is done in defiance of US interests.
ONCE AGAIN. THE quote:
NOW NOW NOW.
I'm so fucking sick of this shit.
Best i can make, OOB's article is based ENTIRELY on personal opinion and bullshit ...
on the contrast, despite his assumptions about where a pile of evidence is pointing in the future, Alex Jones has hours of video, hundreds of hours of radio, and scores of documents PROVING, FACTUALY SHOWING that there are a bunch of people out there, usualy working in some concert, TO EXERT MASSIVE COLLECTIVE CONTROL over not only the US political structure, but the very fabric of "reality" ...
How can people argue that they don't have their hand deeply embedded in Politics, Money Supply, Educational System, Industrial Capital, and Social Fabric?
THAT IS CONTROL.
IT IS MANIPULATIVE.
MUCH OF IT IS DONE IN A "SHADOWY" MANNER.
What more do you fucking need to show there are people who want to control the world and are actively seeking to do so?
Again, David Rockefeller, SAME GUY THAT HEAPS ENDLESS PRAISE AT CHAIRMAN MAO ... says what he did in China is the greatest fucking thing since sliced bread ... ADMITEDLY running his "game" AGAINST US INTEREST ...
and he has his hand in EVERYTHING.
The CFR IS David Rockefeller.
Bilderberg IS to a large extent, David Rockefeller.
It's not JUST him, but he EMBODIES the "Globalist movement" ...
and people like him have been working since at LEAST the turn of the century to bring a good few seemingly independent quadrants of reality together to form a NEW reality ... eugenics, monitary policy, political manipulation, industrial control ... etc ... those things SEEM independent but they can ALL be manipulated to the same end.
EVERYTHING Alex Jones says (that i have ever looked in to, which is a LOT of it) checks out to the fucking T.
And if you connec the dots you get an ugly fucking picture of reality.
These people control the government, they create wars for profit and control, they bought up the media in the late 20th century, and replaced the educational structure in the mid 1900's in order to CHANGE THE WAY PEOPLE THINK ... to dumb them down, to make them more malleable, passive, accepting, resigned ... to deliberately feed them erroneous, misleading, unproductive information ... to KEEP THEM IN LINE.
You may not see it coming.
But the Elite have a VERY real desire to institute something approximating what Alex Jones terms, "the control grid", and it benefits them immensely to have an altered reality where those with the guns (military and police) are too stupid, violent, and sheeplike to question their orders ... and to have a public that is too stupid, placid, and sheeplike to question the authority with which their lives are ruled ... and when you ACHIEVE such control structure, rebellion is OUT OF THE QUESTION.
At least, that is the ruling belief these people have.
Unfortunately (for them, though a cornered wild animal is scary!), like AJ has stated, they are about 5 years behind in their game plan, currently. Someone shot down Flight 93 (unless you believe the "lets roll" story that involves, per flight log statistics, the passengers charging the cockpit while the plane was upside down in a nosedive) and stopped it from plowing into either the Capitol or the White House (who knows, but it was most likely headed towards Washington) and giving "them" a clear reason to implement Marshal Law ... and it would have given them an excuse to unleash clear financial armageddon as well ...
instead they got this hodgepodge Post-911 reality where the people are just jaded, and they didn't have the right situation to get what they wanted ...
Ask yourself what would have happened if Flight 93 had reached its target. There WOULD have been Marshal Law, it is nearly unquestionable. They would have had the legal grounds to do so.
In any event.
I'm seriously tired of this.
You guys say we have no evidence, but it is presented time and time again. Ya'll just dismiss it as from "biased sources" ... yet ya'll come back with NOTHING but opinion and bullshit yellow journalism and you say that it negates document after document and historical incident after historical incident.
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
i asked to confirm that we were talking about the same organization. becos you talk about the cfr like it's the league of shadows.
to save space, ill just quote this rather than the 10 paragraphs after. i am not in the least surprised that rich people are plotting to get richer. and that is how i read the quote you posted. not that these guys are in some sense banding together to keep everyone else in the world down, that it is some sort of brotherhood of conspiracy or unified moral ideology. that they are businessmen who want to get richer. sure, what they do is disgusting. but they are only allies in the sense that their selfish goals happen to require the same action, not in that they have a shared worldview that they are trying to impose. they are all trying to get rich and the second one of them feels there are better ways to do it, they would do it even if it cruched the rest of them. conspiracy implies they are all willing to make sacrifices for each other to achieve some vision at the end. that isn't the case. they are only working together now becos it is profitable.
this is exactly what i am talking about. you offer this as evidence? this is not evidence, this is pure supposition and speculation. you have no proof, no smoking gun, that 9/11 was plotted to achieve martial law. furthermore, the fact that you don't understand the import of the terms you use, indicates the lack of depth in your grasp of these issues. marshal law? what is that? it's not a typo, becos you repeat it consistently. it is martial law. the fact that you are ignorant of even the correct term for what is central to your entire theory shows that you are willing to accept even the most superficial theories if they sound good.
You know what?
You're right.
I did misspell Martial Law.
:rolleyes:
And "the proof" is not me babbling about Flight 93.
I fully recognize that is suposition.
All though its hardly much of one.
Had it hit any political target within DC, the legal grounds to institute Marshal Law (
ANYHOW,
that you are unwilling to acknowledge that Rockefeller himself is ADMITTED regarding this "conspiracy", is beyond comprehension.
I could understand if it was ONLY a quote, but it is quote supported by nearly 100 years of action and historical fact to back it.
Lets try this one more time, just look at the quote and then we'll move on:
What part of
"I FUCKING ADMIT I AM PART OF A SECRET CABAL WORKING AGAINST THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE UNITED STATES"
"I AM AN INTERNATIONALIST LOOKING TO 'INTEGRATE' THE GLOBAL POLITICAL STRUCTURE IN TO 'ONE WORLD' "
and
"I AM GUILTY"
Don't make sense in the context of all the evidence pointing towards that?
HERE. READ THIS
What part of this don't you understand?
The Rockefellers are THE family that was behind the push towards eugenics. They started the movement for all practical purposes. They funded the everloving fucking out of it. They are responsible for elevating the man that helped make mass murder a reality for hitler.
AND
The Rockefeller family, by way of the Standard Oil (original wealth for the Rockefellers stems from their Standard Oil company) IG Farben connection ... THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR ZYKLON B FOR FUCKS SAKE!
Here is a great quote from a senator at the time of WWII: -source
Thats pretty fucking clear and to the point.
I just don't understand how people can deny this.
This is like denying that George Bush's grandfathers were Nazis. The George Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush, Harriman\Thyssen connection is ROCK SOLID HISTORIC FACT.
How much shit do you have to fucking tie together?
These people were involved in EVERYTHING bad in the 20th century, by and large.
Where in that is there no conspiracy?
They want unadulterated power and control, and they want to LITERALY change the face of reality to achieve it ... and they ARE ... ask the average american how they feel about a gold standard, and they will probably tell you "its a stupid idea" ... that is pretty undeniable. The elite have achieved their goal of making the people accept their fate as something GOOD.
Its like the Nazi's charging the Jews a train fare to their doom. Pathetic.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Concerning the article, my favorite part was:
"Just as with a True Believer in religion, the True Believer in a conspiracy can be notoriously difficult to reason with and convince that there exists even the possibility that they might be mistaken. Those who raise skeptical questions are quickly labeled as "uninformed," "lacking insight" or worse still, actually aiding the forces of darkness. Faith is a virtue, skepticism a sin. Those who see the truth of the conspiracy come to believe that they alone bear the true light of history - and religion. The value of such attitudes for the ego are clear, but it is also just as clear that these same attitudes alienate a person from others who might be able to provide a moderating influence. Isolation unfortunately has a habit of slowing reinforcing radical and paranoid ideologies."
you didnt "misspell" it. you were ignorant of the actual term that is central to your entire theory.
the part where he draws the distinction between what he does and how people characterize it. that is the classic political technique of trying to point out how unfair a label is by accepting the facts. i'll use an example:
"some people label me a fascist communist based on my view that everyone in american should have free guaranteed access to health care... of that i am guilty."
as to the nazi thing, a lot of americans and international businessmen had dealings with the nazis. they were good for profit. unfortunately, racism and anti-semitism were also all too common in the world. the world has rejected that view and it is slowly dying. that alone is proof that the rockefellers do NOT control the world, if so we would not be outraged by holocaust becos we could never resist their all-powerful influence. they may try to influence every corner of it, but they cannot always succeed. you seem to be strongly opposed to profiteering. all well and good. but americans seem to be ok with it. they rejected rockefeller's genocide, but accept his view on global markets and capitalism. the world is against it, and just as the world united against nazism when it was deemed unconscionable, once the injustice of capitalistic profiteering resonates with enough people (as has already begun), he and those like him will fall.
i think one thing we can all agree on is that most people in the world do not have any power over world events. and the people who have power like to stay in power, and don't like their power challenged. so i think the power structure lends itself to abuse of authority.
for sure, there are some conspiracy theorists, like David Icke, Jeff Rense, Lyndon LaRouche and to a lesser extent, Alex Jones, who are religious in their communication and propose ludicrous, albeit entertaining ideas about world leaders. but most people believe in either Islam, Christianity, Hinduism and Mormonism and what not, so why is believing in the Illuminati and Reptilians any less, um, normal?
but when you take the religious or religious-like conspiracies out of the equation, and you're left with the fact that there are private groups like the Bilderbergers, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Carlyle Group, and other groups that have tremendous influence and are not accountable to the public, and that both the "neoliberal" and "neoconservative" economic policies they are successful in establishing serve nobody but themselves and their allies (funders)... well... how can a person not theorize, or at least hypothesize, that these groups have conspired against the rest of us? and dammit, no one has answered why WTC7 went down like that.
I definitely get where you are coming from and I tend to dismiss things myself once it's starting in the 'evil/darkness' direction. I only posted what I did because I've seen how people here, who were only posting to engage in a serious discussion about things that concerned them and with valid points, were immediately ridiculed 'just because' and their points ignored. I don't understand why it is sooo hard for people to express their disagreement without being so nasty about it. If they believe so strongly against these theories, it shouldn't be a problem for them to say why and back it up with what they know.
But I have seen some posts that are definitely over the top and stretching way too far. I can't stand the whole 'you're just blind and ignorant for not seeing this' mentality I've noticed in some threads. It's a close minded approach that's not going to change anyone's mind. And I don't have a problem if those are shot down as long as it's civil and done with facts not personal attacks.
So basicly I was just letting both sides be shown in this thread. This 'in your face', highly aggrivated and paranoid of everything approach rubs me the wrong way, too. I think it would serve those posters well to tone it down and chill out a bit. I haven't gotten around to reading the stuff in your links yet, I was hoping to be able to get to that tonight. I can definitely see the comparison to religion, though. Religion is not open to changes in thought, being proved wrong and often leads to fanaticism which in turn leads to anger and clouds rationality. There is most certainly a cross section of society that follows these conspiracies in much the same way.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde