why do they want to know who reads what in the library?

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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    It's so they can put anyone who checks out 'Catcher in the Rye' on "THE LIST" ;)


    that just sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory. youre crazy. ;):D
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  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    :confused: dunk it was just a couple of weeks ago when GORDON BROWN was pushing this through... they want to monitor, emails, phone calls, texts, libraries, bank accounts... this was in all the mainstream papers... just a couple of weeks ago... I can see how people MIGHT support the rest... but I've been wondering what reasoning they could have to support them monitoring library accounts :D

    link please? not that i doubt you... i just cant see anything about it and I didnt read anything about libraries a few weeks back.

    so link me up :)
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Heineken Helen
    Heineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    dunkman wrote:
    link please? not that i doubt you... i just cant see anything about it and I didnt read anything about libraries a few weeks back.

    so link me up :)
    how the fuck do you find a link that's a few weeks old? We were talking about it at the time and I'm pretty sure you didn't look for links then.
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  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    how the fuck do you find a link that's a few weeks old? We were talking about it at the time and I'm pretty sure you didn't look for links then.

    google
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Heineken Helen
    Heineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    dunkman wrote:
    google
    I'm trying... but funny enough, it's not supplying me with MANY links about even emails being monitored... even though this pops up often enough :confused: that's interesting :cool:
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    I'm trying... but funny enough, it's not supplying me with MANY links about even emails being monitored... even though this pops up often enough :confused: that's interesting :cool:

    yep.. just as i thought... you've made it up. :p

    I can find links about emails and texts but even searching The Guardian, The Times, etc doesnt pull up articles about Brown wanting to monitor libraries.

    unless of course i've missed it.. but i'd be interested to read it... if found that is... as all local libraries are on our local government server.... their data isnt held nationally.. but locally... so how they would get that data would be interesting to me as all national data is collated a local level... we supply that data... there isnt a national mainframe or anything like that.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Heineken Helen
    Heineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    dunkman wrote:
    yep.. just as i thought... you've made it up. :p

    I can find links about emails and texts but even searching The Guardian, The Times, etc doesnt pull up articles about Brown wanting to monitor libraries.

    unless of course i've missed it.. but i'd be interested to read it... if found that is... as all local libraries are on our local government server.... their data isnt held nationally.. but locally... so how they would get that data would be interesting to me as all national data is collated a local level... we supply that data... there isnt a national mainframe or anything like that.
    I didn't make it up :D why don't you ask me for these links at the time? and you obviously did miss it :p how they could get that data cos it's held at LOCAL government level?????????????????? :eek: It mentioned a new bill being passed through parliament about monitoring phone calls, emails, text messages, library records, bank accounts... several things... but the library was the one that I've been kinda thinking about since... like what??? Besides, I think they already do it in the US.
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    I didn't make it up :D why don't you ask me for these links at the time? and you obviously did miss it :p how they could get that data cos it's held at LOCAL government level?????????????????? :eek: It mentioned a new bill being passed through parliament about monitoring phone calls, emails, text messages, library records, bank accounts... several things... but the library was the one that I've been kinda thinking about since... like what??? Besides, I think they already do it in the US.

    i just dont understand what you think the government does with this data though?

    i mean, there wont be 800 people sitting in a London office trailing through everyone's library books... they just wont... its completely wasteful of people's time and effort. As all books in a library are 'authorised' by the government anyway then why bother...

    Brown probably wants to target certain books like Mein Kampf or Bin Laden Rules OK... he doesnt want to trawl through everyones accounts and calculate what they are borrowing so he can publish it in a white paper....

    you appear to be quite scared of all this government intrusion in your life these days and i bet you have never even seen a government official let alone had one spy on you for your daily activities...

    its scaremongering at best
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    Besides, I think they already do it in the US.

    they have the power to monitor libraries or library computers and they would need some form of authorisation/warrant (i think) to do this.. there isnt a wholesale storing of all books borrowed by all libraries in the US... just as there isnt a national database that has Catcher in the Rye's barcode on it and it flashes every time someone called "Chapman' borrows it.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Heineken Helen
    Heineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    dunkman wrote:
    i just dont understand what you think the government does with this data though?

    i mean, there wont be 800 people sitting in a London office trailing through everyone's library books... they just wont... its completely wasteful of people's time and effort. As all books in a library are 'authorised' by the government anyway then why bother...

    So why would they need it? You seem to be in support of governments monitoring all of our activities if they so wish. What do YOU think they do with it? Just leave it there? Monitor it for what?
    dunkman wrote:
    Brown probably wants to target certain books like Mein Kampf or Bin Laden Rules OK... he doesnt want to trawl through everyones accounts and calculate what they are borrowing so he can publish it in a white paper....

    So if somebody reads Mein Kampf, that makes them what? :confused:
    dunkman wrote:
    you appear to be quite scared of all this government intrusion in your life these days and i bet you have never even seen a government official let alone had one spy on you for your daily activities...

    its scaremongering at best

    How is my opinion scaremongering? :confused: Don't you think those pushing for governments to monitor all of our activities because it's necessary in the fight against terrorism is closer to scaremongering? I'm not scaremongering... I just want them to stop trying to take more and more from us. The words I say in a phone call or email are mine, the decision I make as to which books to read is mine, my fingerprints are mine, my DNA is mine... for them to FORCE me to hand such things over or take them without my permission... well... at best, it's theft!
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • Heineken Helen
    Heineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    dunkman wrote:
    they have the power to monitor libraries or library computers and they would need some form of authorisation/warrant (i think) to do this.. there isnt a wholesale storing of all books borrowed by all libraries in the US... just as there isnt a national database that has Catcher in the Rye's barcode on it and it flashes every time someone called "Chapman' borrows it.
    so?

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0126-05.htm

    'But some librarians, who were meeting in Philadelphia for an American Library Association convention, worry that the FBI has returned to routinely checking on the reading habits of intellectuals, civil rights leaders and other Americans.

    Those tactics, common in the 1950s and 1960s, were occasionally used to brand people as Communists.

    "Some of this stuff is pretty scary, and we are very concerned that people's privacy is being violated," American Library Association President Maurice J. Freedman said.

    Some 10,000 librarians from around the world were expected in Philadelphia for the association's midwinter meeting, which began Friday. The group will discuss the Patriot Act at a forum Sunday and is likely to draft a resolution condemning sections of the law that open library records to police inspection, Freedman said.

    Judith Krug, director of the group's Office of Intellectual Freedom, said routine government inquiries into library records could have a chilling effect on patrons. For example, she said, some might be afraid to take out books on Islam out of fear that they might wind up on an FBI watch list.'
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    I don't see why they need the information either, but then again I don't really care if they know I'm currently reading a Steinbeck novel.

    I do think it all goes back to taxes. If the government wasn't so fat and happy from stealing our money, they couldn't have this much control.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

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  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    so?

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0126-05.htm

    'But some librarians, who were meeting in Philadelphia for an American Library Association convention, worry that the FBI has returned to routinely checking on the reading habits of intellectuals, civil rights leaders and other Americans.

    Those tactics, common in the 1950s and 1960s, were occasionally used to brand people as Communists.

    "Some of this stuff is pretty scary, and we are very concerned that people's privacy is being violated," American Library Association President Maurice J. Freedman said.

    Some 10,000 librarians from around the world were expected in Philadelphia for the association's midwinter meeting, which began Friday. The group will discuss the Patriot Act at a forum Sunday and is likely to draft a resolution condemning sections of the law that open library records to police inspection, Freedman said.

    Judith Krug, director of the group's Office of Intellectual Freedom, said routine government inquiries into library records could have a chilling effect on patrons. For example, she said, some might be afraid to take out books on Islam out of fear that they might wind up on an FBI watch list.'

    10,000 librarians in Philadelphia... thats one fucker of a boring conference... and quiet as well ;)

    look Hells... i just find your "they are out to get me" thing a bit ridiculous... i dont care if they know what book i'm reading... neither does the vast majority of the general library going public... so you do care... but why? why care about mundaneness like this when today a few hundred children dies of starvation in Africa... its not even worth the comparison
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Heineken Helen
    Heineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    dunkman wrote:
    10,000 librarians in Philadelphia... thats one fucker of a boring conference... and quiet as well ;)

    look Hells... i just find your "they are out to get me" thing a bit ridiculous... i dont care if they know what book i'm reading... neither does the vast majority of the general library going public... so you do care... but why? why care about mundaneness like this when today a few hundred children dies of starvation in Africa... its not even worth the comparison
    Of course it is... it's all connected... look at all the money they're spending on monitoring people for something so 'ridiculous'. That's your money, my money, everyone's money. Do you think they would bother spending money on something so stupid if it didn't benefit them in some way? Why DON'T people care? You're the one being ridiculous ;)
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Every computer transaction you make goes into a database, gets backed up, and is stored somewhere and can be recalled if needed.

    Most likely in case a crime is committed...or for whatever reason these days. There's really no more rules on spying anymore.

    Whether or not libraries are required to replicate this data regularly to a mainframe or central hub is another story. Otherwise a detective will have to go on site and request a print out, or be relayed staff login credentials to a web portal, or just be faxed the details directly.

    Get on enough lists and people tend to watch more.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    dunkman wrote:
    10,000 librarians in Philadelphia... thats one fucker of a boring conference... and quiet as well ;)

    look Hells... i just find your "they are out to get me" thing a bit ridiculous... i dont care if they know what book i'm reading... neither does the vast majority of the general library going public... so you do care... but why? why care about mundaneness like this when today a few hundred children dies of starvation in Africa... its not even worth the comparison


    become a notable political activist and let me know how it all works out for you.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    become a notable political activist and let me know how it all works out for you.

    yes thats right, cos 99% of the general public are notable political activists... i forget that. :rolleyes:

    i would roland, but 'activist' makes it sound like there is activity involved and I expel enough energy on my current daily life schedule... also politics are extremely mundane, as corrupt as the mafia and ultimately futile.

    but thanks for the advice.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    Of course it is... it's all connected... look at all the money they're spending on monitoring people for something so 'ridiculous'. That's your money, my money, everyone's money. Do you think they would bother spending money on something so stupid if it didn't benefit them in some way? Why DON'T people care? You're the one being ridiculous ;)

    they spend more money on staging fucking operas in Hyde Park that only 300 rich fuckers go and see.

    there is government waste of money at every level... the actual cost attributed to the capturing of SUSPECTED CRIMINALS library records will be a infintesimal compared to what they spend on wars, MP expenses, security for the PM/President, etc.

    people DONT care as it doesnt directly affect them... the old adage of "if i'm not doing something wrong then why care" is definitely true for the most part.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Heineken Helen
    Heineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    dunkman wrote:
    they spend more money on staging fucking operas in Hyde Park that only 300 rich fuckers go and see.

    there is government waste of money at every level... the actual cost attributed to the capturing of SUSPECTED CRIMINALS library records will be a infintesimal compared to what they spend on wars, MP expenses, security for the PM/President, etc.

    people DONT care as it doesnt directly affect them... the old adage of "if i'm not doing something wrong then why care" is definitely true for the most part.
    :confused: IT DOESNT directly affect them? Ah dunk... tis easy to tell you work for a government. And yes, that money most likely IS miniscule compared to wars, MP expenses, security, etc. but again, it's all connected. That's the part you're failing to see. They're able to do things like this usually BECAUSE of some 'war' or another and these MP's will CLAIM it's FOR security ;)

    If I'm not doing something wrong then why care? You must know how much that annoys me... it's the only possible reason you could keep using it :p
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    :confused: IT DOESNT directly affect them? Ah dunk...

    nope it doesnt... not directly.. nobody even knows that their details have been stored (if they even are).

    Heineken Helen wrote:
    If I'm not doing something wrong then why care? You must know how much that annoys me... it's the only possible reason you could keep using it :p

    ;):p
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.

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