why do they want to know who reads what in the library?

Heineken Helen

whatever about fingerprings and scanning eyes and shit like that... obviously these are to 'prevent terrorism' clearly :rolleyes: why the hell do they need access to what books people get from the library? (even though it's not funny)

It's not like you can just go in and pick up a book on how to make a bomb, is it? That makes NO sense in regards to preventing terrorism whatsoever.

I'm pretty sure this one doesn't require a tin foil hat? Prove me wrong!

Collin

Even if you can borrow a book on making bombs, what's the point?

Nowadays there's something called the interweb. Want to make a bomb? Fuck going to the library, just look it up on google.

Meanwhile, borrow three books in your local library and you receive one free gun!

Heineken Helen

Collin wrote:

Even if you can borrow a book on making bombs, what's the point?

Nowadays there's something called the interweb. Want to make a bomb? Fuck going to the library, just look it up on google.

Meanwhile, borrow three books in your local library and you receive one free gun!

damn... it's 4 books in mine... but you get free ammo with that so tis all good.

Ah see, they already check what you're doing on the interweb anywho... so there's no point doing that or they'll find ya... so they assume you just walk into your local library and pick one up off the kiddies shelf! Hmm... seriously though, sometimes the 'other people' have a point... albeit not one I find myself agreeing with but I can see where they're coming from and how they find people to agree with them. In this case though, I'm struggling.

Collin

Heineken Helen wrote:

damn... it's 4 books in mine... but you get free ammo with that so tis all good.

Ah see, they already check what you're doing on the interweb anywho... so there's no point doing that or they'll find ya... so they assume you just walk into your local library and pick one up off the kiddies shelf! Hmm... seriously though, sometimes the 'other people' have a point... albeit not one I find myself agreeing with but I can see where they're coming from and how they find people to agree with them. In this case though, I'm struggling.

They can check what we're doing on the internet, but it's not very efficient. Too many people. I've been on sites with information on bombs etc. and I've also been on radical left sites, on government sites... yet I'm still here. So what's the point. I could have made a bomb by now and blown up some building. (perhaps they read my posts here and know that I'm just a mellow stoner, though )

But anyway, internet isn't personal, it's easy to get access to a computer with internet. Even if they locate the computer, there's no way they can know who looked it up.

It's ridiculous. Just like racial profiling.

Heineken Helen

Collin wrote:

They can check what we're doing on the internet, but it's not very efficient. Too many people. I've been on sites with information on bombs etc. and I've also been on radical left sites, on government sites... yet I'm still here. So what's the point. I could have made a bomb by now and blown up some building. (perhaps they read my posts here and know that I'm just a mellow stoner, though )

But anyway, internet isn't personal, it's easy to get access to a computer with internet. Even if they locate the computer, there's no way they can know who looked it up.

It's ridiculous. Just like racial profiling.

that's true... but how would library books produce quicker results? Are all librarians actually undercover government agents? And they'll place a tracker or a bug in any books that could threaten national security?

spiral out

They may well be interested if pick out books by Noam Chomsky and other people like that. Or maybe they will judge how intelligent you are by what you read.

Heineken Helen

spiral out wrote:

They may well be interested if pick out books by Noam Chomsky and other people like that. Or maybe they will judge how intelligent you are by what you read.

Oh yeh, I can see how it WOULD be beneficial to the government... what I wanna know is how are they gonna sell this as anti terrorism? Or have they gotten to the point where they don't even bother anymore and just throw it in anyway? I wanna know how and why people WILL defend this... cos doubtless there will be many who do.

Collin

Heineken Helen wrote:

that's true... but how would library books produce quicker results? Are all librarians actually undercover government agents? And they'll place a tracker or a bug in any books that could threaten national security?

I assume you need a library card, which is registered to your name. So guard your library card! Wouldn't want a terrorist walking away with it!

I'm trying to picture Osama in my library.

"Yes, I'd like Pride and Prejudice, Huckleberry Finn and How To Make A Bomb 101."

spiral out

Heineken Helen wrote:

Oh yeh, I can see how it WOULD be beneficial to the government... what I wanna know is how are they gonna sell this as anti terrorism? Or have they gotten to the point where they don't even bother anymore and just throw it in anyway? I wanna know how and why people WILL defend this... cos doubtless there will be many who do.

A guy was briefly detained under Section 44 of the 2000 Terrorism Act, for reading the independent a few years back http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blair-laid-bare-the-article-that-may-get-you-arrested-405951.html if they can use it for something as stupid as that then reading anything that doesn't paint your government in a nice light has got to be watched, we can't have the proletariat getting ideas above there station.

People will defend it because they let papers and news tell them how to think. Simple as that.

Thats my thoughts anyway.

Heineken Helen

spiral out wrote:

A guy was briefly detained under Section 44 of the 2000 Terrorism Act, for reading the independent a few years back http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blair-laid-bare-the-article-that-may-get-you-arrested-405951.html if they can use it for something as stupid as that then reading anything that doesn't paint your government in a nice light has got to be watched, we can't have the proletariat getting ideas above there station.

People will defend it because they let papers and news tell them how to think. Simple as that.

Thats my thoughts anyway.

wow... that's a great article! It really is so sad that people will actually think this is in all our best interests :(

catefrances

Heineken Helen wrote:

whatever about fingerprings and scanning eyes and shit like that... obviously these are to 'prevent terrorism' clearly :rolleyes: why the hell do they need access to what books people get from the library? (even though it's not funny)

It's not like you can just go in and pick up a book on how to make a bomb, is it? That makes NO sense in regards to preventing terrorism whatsoever.

I'm pretty sure this one doesn't require a tin foil hat? Prove me wrong!

it doesnt matter helen, theyve known for years who borrows what. thats what the barcodes are for. besides its for your own good. wouldnt want those goddamn liberal thinkers getting ahold of peter pan now would we?
you could always go with cash and a bookshop like me, then no one knows what your reading...supposedly

Heineken Helen

catefrances wrote:

you could always go with cash and a bookshop like me, then no one knows what your reading...supposedly

I do but yeh, there's always cameras they could test my notes for prints since they have my prints on file anyway cos of my trip to the states... there's plenty of ways to find out who buys what

catefrances

Heineken Helen wrote:

I do but yeh, there's always cameras they could test my notes for prints since they have my prints on file anyway cos of my trip to the states... there's plenty of ways to find out who buys what

i bet you look real swish in that tinfoil hat, girl.

if the authorities are so concerned by my reading material, cause theyve got nothing better to do, i say bring it on and accuse me or shut up and get the fuck away from me.

dunkman

they dont.


its an urban myth

catefrances

dunkman wrote:

they dont.


its an urban myth

but how do you know dunk?

spiral out

catefrances wrote:

you could always go with cash and a bookshop like me, then no one knows what your reading...supposedly

Or better still send someone else to buy your books for you.

dunkman

catefrances wrote:

but how do you know dunk?

i work in the "We dont give a fuck what you read" dept in the government.

its a nice job... comfy seats and a giant library... non-barcoded of course

catefrances

spiral out wrote:

Or better still send someone else to buy your books for you.

and that is why God created sidekicks.

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

they dont.


its an urban myth

dunk it was just a couple of weeks ago when GORDON BROWN was pushing this through... they want to monitor, emails, phone calls, texts, libraries, bank accounts... this was in all the mainstream papers... just a couple of weeks ago... I can see how people MIGHT support the rest... but I've been wondering what reasoning they could have to support them monitoring library accounts

catefrances

dunkman wrote:

i work in the "We dont give a fuck what you read" dept in the government.

its a nice job... comfy seats and a giant library... non-barcoded of course

can i drink tea while i peruse the stacks? i'd like that.

Urban Hiker

It's so they can put anyone who checks out 'Catcher in the Rye' on "THE LIST"

catefrances

Urban Hiker wrote:

It's so they can put anyone who checks out 'Catcher in the Rye' on "THE LIST"

that just sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory. youre crazy.

dunkman

Heineken Helen wrote:

dunk it was just a couple of weeks ago when GORDON BROWN was pushing this through... they want to monitor, emails, phone calls, texts, libraries, bank accounts... this was in all the mainstream papers... just a couple of weeks ago... I can see how people MIGHT support the rest... but I've been wondering what reasoning they could have to support them monitoring library accounts

link please? not that i doubt you... i just cant see anything about it and I didnt read anything about libraries a few weeks back.

so link me up

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

link please? not that i doubt you... i just cant see anything about it and I didnt read anything about libraries a few weeks back.

so link me up

how the fuck do you find a link that's a few weeks old? We were talking about it at the time and I'm pretty sure you didn't look for links then.

dunkman

Heineken Helen wrote:

how the fuck do you find a link that's a few weeks old? We were talking about it at the time and I'm pretty sure you didn't look for links then.

google

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

google

I'm trying... but funny enough, it's not supplying me with MANY links about even emails being monitored... even though this pops up often enough that's interesting :cool:

dunkman

Heineken Helen wrote:

I'm trying... but funny enough, it's not supplying me with MANY links about even emails being monitored... even though this pops up often enough that's interesting :cool:

yep.. just as i thought... you've made it up.

I can find links about emails and texts but even searching The Guardian, The Times, etc doesnt pull up articles about Brown wanting to monitor libraries.

unless of course i've missed it.. but i'd be interested to read it... if found that is... as all local libraries are on our local government server.... their data isnt held nationally.. but locally... so how they would get that data would be interesting to me as all national data is collated a local level... we supply that data... there isnt a national mainframe or anything like that.

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

yep.. just as i thought... you've made it up.

I can find links about emails and texts but even searching The Guardian, The Times, etc doesnt pull up articles about Brown wanting to monitor libraries.

unless of course i've missed it.. but i'd be interested to read it... if found that is... as all local libraries are on our local government server.... their data isnt held nationally.. but locally... so how they would get that data would be interesting to me as all national data is collated a local level... we supply that data... there isnt a national mainframe or anything like that.

I didn't make it up why don't you ask me for these links at the time? and you obviously did miss it how they could get that data cos it's held at LOCAL government level?????????????????? :eek: It mentioned a new bill being passed through parliament about monitoring phone calls, emails, text messages, library records, bank accounts... several things... but the library was the one that I've been kinda thinking about since... like what??? Besides, I think they already do it in the US.

dunkman

Heineken Helen wrote:

I didn't make it up why don't you ask me for these links at the time? and you obviously did miss it how they could get that data cos it's held at LOCAL government level?????????????????? :eek: It mentioned a new bill being passed through parliament about monitoring phone calls, emails, text messages, library records, bank accounts... several things... but the library was the one that I've been kinda thinking about since... like what??? Besides, I think they already do it in the US.

i just dont understand what you think the government does with this data though?

i mean, there wont be 800 people sitting in a London office trailing through everyone's library books... they just wont... its completely wasteful of people's time and effort. As all books in a library are 'authorised' by the government anyway then why bother...

Brown probably wants to target certain books like Mein Kampf or Bin Laden Rules OK... he doesnt want to trawl through everyones accounts and calculate what they are borrowing so he can publish it in a white paper....

you appear to be quite scared of all this government intrusion in your life these days and i bet you have never even seen a government official let alone had one spy on you for your daily activities...

its scaremongering at best

dunkman

Heineken Helen wrote:

Besides, I think they already do it in the US.

they have the power to monitor libraries or library computers and they would need some form of authorisation/warrant (i think) to do this.. there isnt a wholesale storing of all books borrowed by all libraries in the US... just as there isnt a national database that has Catcher in the Rye's barcode on it and it flashes every time someone called "Chapman' borrows it.

Heineken Helen

dunkman wrote:

i just dont understand what you think the government does with this data though?

i mean, there wont be 800 people sitting in a London office trailing through everyone's library books... they just wont... its completely wasteful of people's time and effort. As all books in a library are 'authorised' by the government anyway then why bother...

So why would they need it? You seem to be in support of governments monitoring all of our activities if they so wish. What do YOU think they do with it? Just leave it there? Monitor it for what?

dunkman wrote:

Brown probably wants to target certain books like Mein Kampf or Bin Laden Rules OK... he doesnt want to trawl through everyones accounts and calculate what they are borrowing so he can publish it in a white paper....

So if somebody reads Mein Kampf, that makes them what?

dunkman wrote:

you appear to be quite scared of all this government intrusion in your life these days and i bet you have never even seen a government official let alone had one spy on you for your daily activities...

its scaremongering at best

How is my opinion scaremongering? Don't you think those pushing for governments to monitor all of our activities because it's necessary in the fight against terrorism is closer to scaremongering? I'm not scaremongering... I just want them to stop trying to take more and more from us. The words I say in a phone call or email are mine, the decision I make as to which books to read is mine, my fingerprints are mine, my DNA is mine... for them to FORCE me to hand such things over or take them without my permission... well... at best, it's theft!