The Supreme Court Backs Guantanamo Bay Prisoners

2

Comments

  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    slightofjeff wrote:
    I think, officially, the term is "enemy combatants."

    And I think the U.S. would claim a pretty narrow definition of the word "torture" -- as in "anything we aren't doing."
    doesn't that allow them to do whatever they way want to whoever they want? If they can label enemies however they want. seems that was the reason for the Geneva convention in the first place.
  • jbalicki10
    jbalicki10 Posts: 517
    Okay let's say we try some of these guys and they are guilty.

    Where in the world do we put them??? If we put them in jail either 2 things will happen:

    1) The other inmates at the jail will kill them without any questions
    2) They (the enemy combatants) will form new gangs or terror cells in prison.

    None of which are good. It would be better to leave them in Gitmo I think.
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,888
    jbalicki10 wrote:
    Okay let's say we try some of these guys and they are guilty.

    Where in the world do we put them??? If we put them in jail either 2 things will happen:

    1) The other inmates at the jail will kill them without any questions
    2) They (the enemy combatants) will form new gangs or terror cells in prison.

    None of which are good. It would be better to leave them in Gitmo I think.


    I think if they are guilty, then they should stay there. Our criminal justice system really has no place for them.

    BUT, we need to determine who is guilty and who isn't... could you imagine being held for 5+ years with no one telling you why, and having zero opportunity to defend yourself. Imagine the outrage if another country detained American citizens like that.
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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    blackredyellow wrote:
    could you imagine being held for 5+ years with no one telling you why,


    I think they know why they are there.
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,888
    unsung wrote:
    I think they know why they are there.

    even the innocent ones?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I'm still waiting for an answer where all those innocent ones were picked up, since I was told they aren't all from Afghanistan.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Commy wrote:
    So Gitmo detainees are pows? that alone comes with a list of rights, from the Geneva convention, which the US agreed too.

    not being tortured is pretty high up on the list as I recall.

    the US have not complied with the Geneva Conventions for a while - besides, they've never signed the amendment relating to POW's
  • Open
    Open Posts: 792
    unsung wrote:
    I'm still waiting for an answer where all those innocent ones were picked up, since I was told they aren't all from Afghanistan.


    Dude....look at the prison system here. Even with due process, innocent people are sent to jail.

    You think in that cluster fuck over there, the odds of picking up people who are innocent is out of the question???


    Here's a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay_detainees
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    unsung wrote:
    The problem is too many people think that giving these prisoners a hug will solve things and make them abandon their jihadist ways. Those are usually the first ones to be beheaded.

    No, actually I'm pretty sure there's not a single person here, or anywhere else that believes that giving these people a hug will make them abandon their jihadist ways.

    I do think a lot of people disagree with torture and denying people a fair trial. I think they are against locking up innocent people without giving them an opportunity to defend themselves or even an explanation of why they are being held.
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  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    Credit where its due, america gained a little credibility back. Genuinely well done, long way to go yet.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,906
    What is Bush afraid of. Our system of justice, for all its faults, does one thing and one thing only that is right, it allows the person to make a case for their own defense. We allowed it for the 1993 World Trade bombers, what's the difference here, we allowed it for the Oklahoma bomber and, we allowed it for the Atlanta Olympic bomber. The crimes were against the people of America. The people not only want justice, they want to be part of rendering this justice. Our system of justice works and neither Bush, the military, nor Congress should circumvent the legal system and place it into SECRET MILITARY TRAILS under this black hole term known as the "war on terror" because the line between military and civilian justice will soon fade.

    It would be tragic to find out the Bin Laden was in Gitmo all this time. Even worst that they had prisoner confirmation that Bin Laden was killed in 2003/2004.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Kudos to the Supreme Court. For, you know, upholding the law. Now the questions looms of what to do with everyone there.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Open wrote:
    Dude....look at the prison system here. Even with due process, innocent people are sent to jail.

    You think in that cluster fuck over there, the odds of picking up people who are innocent is out of the question???


    Here's a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay_detainees


    I only have to scroll downa little bit to see a guy from Denmark that was released but announced his intention of returning to the fight. Regardless my question has still not been answered. If these people in Cuba are innocent and they are not from Afghanistan where were they captured? Was this guy captured in Demark?
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    Commy wrote:
    doesn't that allow them to do whatever they way want to whoever they want? If they can label enemies however they want. seems that was the reason for the Geneva convention in the first place.

    I didn't say it was right. I just said I understand the administration's argument, and I understand the SCOTUS decision. I can see both sides.
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  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    puremagic wrote:
    What is Bush afraid of. Our system of justice, for all its faults, does one thing and one thing only that is right, it allows the person to make a case for their own defense. We allowed it for the 1993 World Trade bombers, what's the difference here, we allowed it for the Oklahoma bomber and, we allowed it for the Atlanta Olympic bomber.

    Just to play devil's advocate, all of those events happened in the United States, and were a clear violation of U.S. law.

    The U.S. law doesn't extend to Afghanistan and other places where these prisoners were picked up, so U.S. courts have no jurisdiction there. This isn't like a cop picking up a suspect in an armed robbery or something ... it is more like an army collecting foreign prisoners of war. You can't just try them in some district court in Orlando, or something.

    There really is a gray area there, and a real question as to what to do with them. The Bush administration made its argument, and was eventually denied.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    slightofjeff wrote:
    There really is a gray area there, and a real question as to what to do with them. The Bush administration made its argument, and was eventually denied.

    I think that's the whole problem ... It IS a grey area, legally. Or at least it was.
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    reborncareerist wrote:
    I think that's the whole problem ... It IS a grey area, legally. Or at least it was.

    well, it was a gray area, and of course the Administration went with the option that most benefited them.

    That's what checks and balances are for.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,253
    jbalicki10 wrote:
    Okay let's say we try some of these guys and they are guilty.

    Where in the world do we put them??? If we put them in jail either 2 things will happen:

    1) The other inmates at the jail will kill them without any questions
    2) They (the enemy combatants) will form new gangs or terror cells in prison.

    None of which are good. It would be better to leave them in Gitmo I think.

    A question needs to be asked and that is why was Gitmo created? It was created so that ANY person identified as an enemy combatant could be placed somewhere supposedly outside of US jurisdiction and therefore the US Constitution would not apply.

    They wanted a place where they could held indefinately, without being accused of anything, no evidence produced and of course tortured without ANY US retribution against our government.

    Pretty slick way of doing business, these detainees aren't seeing daylight any time soon even those who are set to be released due to lack of evidence or no evidence at all. Only less than 20 of the 270 have been accused of a crime and evidence brought before them to date.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,253
    Collin wrote:
    No, actually I'm pretty sure there's not a single person here, or anywhere else that believes that giving these people a hug will make them abandon their jihadist ways.

    I do think a lot of people disagree with torture and denying people a fair trial. I think they are against locking up innocent people without giving them an opportunity to defend themselves or even an explanation of why they are being held.

    This is EXACTLY the case on how I think about this issue.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I will ask this again because maybe it was missed the other two times.

    These innocent people, that are not from Afghanistan, in what country were they captured?

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