What is Bush afraid of. Our system of justice, for all its faults, does one thing and one thing only that is right, it allows the person to make a case for their own defense. We allowed it for the 1993 World Trade bombers, what's the difference here, we allowed it for the Oklahoma bomber and, we allowed it for the Atlanta Olympic bomber. The crimes were against the people of America. The people not only want justice, they want to be part of rendering this justice. Our system of justice works and neither Bush, the military, nor Congress should circumvent the legal system and place it into SECRET MILITARY TRAILS under this black hole term known as the "war on terror" because the line between military and civilian justice will soon fade.
It would be tragic to find out the Bin Laden was in Gitmo all this time. Even worst that they had prisoner confirmation that Bin Laden was killed in 2003/2004.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
I only have to scroll downa little bit to see a guy from Denmark that was released but announced his intention of returning to the fight. Regardless my question has still not been answered. If these people in Cuba are innocent and they are not from Afghanistan where were they captured? Was this guy captured in Demark?
doesn't that allow them to do whatever they way want to whoever they want? If they can label enemies however they want. seems that was the reason for the Geneva convention in the first place.
I didn't say it was right. I just said I understand the administration's argument, and I understand the SCOTUS decision. I can see both sides.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
What is Bush afraid of. Our system of justice, for all its faults, does one thing and one thing only that is right, it allows the person to make a case for their own defense. We allowed it for the 1993 World Trade bombers, what's the difference here, we allowed it for the Oklahoma bomber and, we allowed it for the Atlanta Olympic bomber.
Just to play devil's advocate, all of those events happened in the United States, and were a clear violation of U.S. law.
The U.S. law doesn't extend to Afghanistan and other places where these prisoners were picked up, so U.S. courts have no jurisdiction there. This isn't like a cop picking up a suspect in an armed robbery or something ... it is more like an army collecting foreign prisoners of war. You can't just try them in some district court in Orlando, or something.
There really is a gray area there, and a real question as to what to do with them. The Bush administration made its argument, and was eventually denied.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
There really is a gray area there, and a real question as to what to do with them. The Bush administration made its argument, and was eventually denied.
I think that's the whole problem ... It IS a grey area, legally. Or at least it was.
Okay let's say we try some of these guys and they are guilty.
Where in the world do we put them??? If we put them in jail either 2 things will happen:
1) The other inmates at the jail will kill them without any questions
2) They (the enemy combatants) will form new gangs or terror cells in prison.
None of which are good. It would be better to leave them in Gitmo I think.
A question needs to be asked and that is why was Gitmo created? It was created so that ANY person identified as an enemy combatant could be placed somewhere supposedly outside of US jurisdiction and therefore the US Constitution would not apply.
They wanted a place where they could held indefinately, without being accused of anything, no evidence produced and of course tortured without ANY US retribution against our government.
Pretty slick way of doing business, these detainees aren't seeing daylight any time soon even those who are set to be released due to lack of evidence or no evidence at all. Only less than 20 of the 270 have been accused of a crime and evidence brought before them to date.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
No, actually I'm pretty sure there's not a single person here, or anywhere else that believes that giving these people a hug will make them abandon their jihadist ways.
I do think a lot of people disagree with torture and denying people a fair trial. I think they are against locking up innocent people without giving them an opportunity to defend themselves or even an explanation of why they are being held.
This is EXACTLY the case on how I think about this issue.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I will ask this again because maybe it was missed the other two times.
These innocent people, that are not from Afghanistan, in what country were they captured?
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
This is not to deny that many of the 500-odd men now held at Guantanamo and some of the 256 others already released (including 76 to the custody of their home countries) were captured on Afghan battlefields or were terrorists, or both. Nor is it to deny the difficulty of knowing with confidence which detainees could safely be released. Indeed, several released detainees have ended up rejoining Taliban forces in Afghanistan.
But reporter Corine Hegland's exhaustively researched cover story in this issue—studded with probative details and human stories that every serious student of the war against terror should read—provides powerful evidence confirming what many of us have suspected for years:
A high percentage, perhaps the majority, of the 500-odd men now held at Guantanamo were not captured on any battlefield, let alone on "the battlefield in Afghanistan" (as Bush asserted) while "trying to kill American forces" (as McClellan claimed).
Fewer than 20 percent of the Guantanamo detainees, the best available evidence suggests, have ever been Qaeda members.
Many scores, and perhaps hundreds, of the detainees were not even Taliban foot soldiers, let alone Qaeda terrorists. They were innocent, wrongly seized noncombatants with no intention of joining the Qaeda campaign to murder Americans.
The majority were not captured by U.S. forces but rather handed over by reward-seeking Pakistanis and Afghan warlords and by villagers of highly doubtful reliability.
My estimates above are based largely on extrapolation from Hegland's analysis of these 132 federal court files. They appear to be reasonably representative of the men still at Guantanamo; certainly, the government has given no indication that its evidence is any weaker in these 132 cases than in the other 370 or so.
It is, therefore, quite remarkable to learn (from Hegland) that well over half (75) of the 132 are not even accused of fighting the United States or its allies on any battlefield in post-9/11 Afghanistan or anywhere else.
Indeed, only 35 percent of them (more precisely, of the 115 whose court files specify the locus of capture) were seized in Afghanistan; 55 percent were picked up by Pakistanis in Pakistan.
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Comments
It would be tragic to find out the Bin Laden was in Gitmo all this time. Even worst that they had prisoner confirmation that Bin Laden was killed in 2003/2004.
I only have to scroll downa little bit to see a guy from Denmark that was released but announced his intention of returning to the fight. Regardless my question has still not been answered. If these people in Cuba are innocent and they are not from Afghanistan where were they captured? Was this guy captured in Demark?
I didn't say it was right. I just said I understand the administration's argument, and I understand the SCOTUS decision. I can see both sides.
for the least they could possibly do
Just to play devil's advocate, all of those events happened in the United States, and were a clear violation of U.S. law.
The U.S. law doesn't extend to Afghanistan and other places where these prisoners were picked up, so U.S. courts have no jurisdiction there. This isn't like a cop picking up a suspect in an armed robbery or something ... it is more like an army collecting foreign prisoners of war. You can't just try them in some district court in Orlando, or something.
There really is a gray area there, and a real question as to what to do with them. The Bush administration made its argument, and was eventually denied.
for the least they could possibly do
I think that's the whole problem ... It IS a grey area, legally. Or at least it was.
well, it was a gray area, and of course the Administration went with the option that most benefited them.
That's what checks and balances are for.
for the least they could possibly do
A question needs to be asked and that is why was Gitmo created? It was created so that ANY person identified as an enemy combatant could be placed somewhere supposedly outside of US jurisdiction and therefore the US Constitution would not apply.
They wanted a place where they could held indefinately, without being accused of anything, no evidence produced and of course tortured without ANY US retribution against our government.
Pretty slick way of doing business, these detainees aren't seeing daylight any time soon even those who are set to be released due to lack of evidence or no evidence at all. Only less than 20 of the 270 have been accused of a crime and evidence brought before them to date.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
This is EXACTLY the case on how I think about this issue.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
These innocent people, that are not from Afghanistan, in what country were they captured?
Gitmo Detainees Say They Were Sold
Chinese Detainees Are Men Without a Country
15 Muslims, Cleared of Terrorism Charges, Remain at Guantanamo With Nowhere to Go
Falsehoods About Guantanamo
Exclusive: Inside Gitmo with Detainee 061...pulled off a bus in Pakistan
The Disenchanted Idealist
Detainees Allege Being Drugged, Questioned
U.S. Denies Using Injections for Coercion
I hope ome of these helps.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)